Question: Why are all the regulars here so anti-Jets?

[T0mShane]

Yippee! I am not posting 8-8 as a reason not to bash the team or the moves, but not to bash the homers.

The problem with homers is that they seem to take criticism of the team personally and then go out of their way to diminish the dialogue. One of the more irritating habits of too many sports fans is telling other fans how to root for their teams. If homers take issue with criticism of a team, message boards are not the place to be, especially this message board. It's a smart, invested bunch here that demands any and all statements--both positive and negative--are qualified and supported by some combination of facts, statistics or other measurable data. This is why this board appears negative, because no statement is taken at face value. Thus, saying "Sanchez is great," which is a popular trope amongst homers, will get you killed because there's no existing metric that supports that point.

The team can go in either direction.

That's what we discuss here every day--exactly how far the team can go in either direction.

Every team in the NFL has serious flaws in serious areas.

Which contending team has their serious flaw at quarterback? If Sanchez fails, you get Tebow. If Tebow fails, you get a draft pick. If you get a draft pick, you're starting over. Serious problem.

We weren't very competitive against the Pats this past year, but coming into 2011 we'd beaten them more often than not in the Rex era

We were non-competitive against them last year not because they got better, but because Sanchez, and the offense, got worse. The Pats had one wideout last season, two great TE's, a JAG running back committee and a brutal defense. Last year, we got beat by a Pats team that wasn't as good as the one we beat the previous two years. Twice. Badly.

and we made some defensive moves (speed) to address them in 2012.

Laron Landry and Demario Davis are not appreciably closing the gap between the Jets and Pats. 40 times are exciting, but Landry has never covered anyone, even when he was healthy, and Davis is a small school athlete who has never stepped foot on a field with anyone approaching Gronkowski's class. That's a wait-and-see at best.

Mainly what I am saying is the idea that this cursed franchise is beyond hope is ridiculous.

Define "beyond hope."

They have the chance to be very good.

If Sanchez and Greene and Coples and Scott and Landry and Tebow and Sparano and Holmes and Mangold and Hunter and Hill and...

Are they a lock? No, but IMO the only way they really tank is from dissension and BS in the lockerroom. Not from some vast lack of talent.

Sanchez and Holmes are still here. Holmes blew off half of minicamp, then showed up long enough to tell Sparano how much effort he was willing to exert at practice, then said that two-QB systems don't work, then he acquired polio, apparently, because he hasn't been seen in uniform since. Dissension is a very, very real possibility there.

And nobody is saying there's no talent on the team. People are saying that there's no talent at the skill positions on offense outside of Holmes.

Not me!

Come on. Gruden as Jets coach, with Sanchez and Tebow would be the greatest reality show of all time.

[Larz]

if you are harder on the jets than the trolls, it dulls the pain

[stoicsentry]

The problem with homers is that they seem to take criticism of the team personally and then go out of their way to diminish the dialogue. One of the more irritating habits of too many sports fans is telling other fans how to root for their teams. If homers take issue with criticism of a team, message boards are not the place to be, especially this message board. It's a smart, invested bunch here that demands any and all statements--both positive and negative--are qualified and supported by some combination of facts, statistics or other measurable data. This is why this board appears negative, because no statement is taken at face value. Thus, saying "Sanchez is great," which is a popular trope amongst homers, will get you killed because there's no existing metric that supports that point.

Thus the narrative that Tannenbaum is a bad GM or Rex a bad coach is easily debunked when we examine the fact that the team has had 2 deep post season runs in the past 3 years and 0 losing sesons in the past 3 years.

[T0mShane]

Thus the narrative that Tannenbaum is a bad GM or Rex a bad coach is easily debunked when we examine the fact that the team has had 2 deep post season runs in the past 3 years and 0 losing sesons in the past 3 years.

1. Nobody thinks Rex is a "bad" coach.

2. Tannenbaum has been the GM for six years (co-GM for five years before that), is on his second coach and has handled the QB position as poorly as you could handle it in that time. How many years would you like to give Mike Tannenbaum? Seven? Nine? Eleven?

[CTM]

T0mShane is much more positive onT0mShane then the jets

[pointman]

Its the best when a homer calls others homers. Some people seem to confuse criticizing a team with pissing and moaning as a gimmick to be the same thing. And one can't tell a person how to root, if they are never rooting but just whining all day, every day.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Is this the "Jets fans only Piss and Moan" thread? Just checking, cause I thought I read that one yesterday?

[Jets62]

The answer to this question lies somewhere between the 43 years of let down, and the fact that we have had to play in the same division as the Patriots, Tom Brady, and Bill Belicheck, and share a stadium with the NY Giants, the 2 teams have combined for 8 super bowl appearances, and 5 super bowl victorys in the last 11 seasons, that is a tough pill to swallow as a fan of the NY Jets, and it wears on you which in tale will make you a negative prick, and no matter what this team does most fans will not be happy until we see the green, and white hoisting the Lombardi trophy.

Not to mention all the sh*t the ownership put the fan base through over the last couple of years starting with the PSL's, stir all that in a pot, and you got a bunch of negative, complaining, whinny bitches, (and put me at the top of that list) and I don't see any reason to apologize for it, when you care, and root for this team the way most on here do it becomes personal most of us here bleed green, and live, and die with every Jets game, so yea when we don't like being embarassed by our biggest rivals, and our cross town rivals, and we don't see the progress towards putting this embarassment to rest (being realistic is not anti Jets by the way) we have all the right in the world to come to this wonderful forum to vent our frustration, if your looking for happy go lucky everything is grand forum go look for something titled tebowmaniacs.com or something.

Finally an adult in the room. Very well put! Perfect.

[#27TheDominator]

This post started off as something I agreed with and then veered off towards what I consider a crock of sh*t.

The problem with homers is that they seem to take criticism of the team personally and then go out of their way to diminish the dialogue. One of the more irritating habits of too many sports fans is telling other fans how to root for their teams. If homers take issue with criticism of a team, message boards are not the place to be, especially this message board. It's a smart, invested bunch here that demands any and all statements--both positive and negative--are qualified and supported by some combination of facts, statistics or other measurable data. This is why this board appears negative, because no statement is taken at face value. Thus, saying "Sanchez is great," which is a popular trope amongst homers, will get you killed because there's no existing metric that supports that point.

Agree, except that the word metric makes me want to choke somebody.

That's what we discuss here every day--exactly how far the team can go in either direction.

Yes, but people predicting super bowl are berated and people predicting 4-12 or 6-10 are considered reasonable. The odds are against a super bowl win, but IMO the team is pretty close. I honestly believe they will make the playoffs and after that it's a crapshoot.

Which contending team has their serious flaw at quarterback? If Sanchez fails, you get Tebow. If Tebow fails, you get a draft pick. If you get a draft pick, you're starting over. Serious problem.

Um... the Ravens. The 49ers. The Jets.

We were non-competitive against them last year not because they got better, but because Sanchez, and the offense, got worse. The Pats had one wideout last season, two great TE's, a JAG running back committee and a brutal defense. Last year, we got beat by a Pats team that wasn't as good as the one we beat the previous two years. Twice. Badly.

Laron Landry and Demario Davis are not appreciably closing the gap between the Jets and Pats. 40 times are exciting, but Landry has never covered anyone, even when he was healthy, and Davis is a small school athlete who has never stepped foot on a field with anyone approaching Gronkowski's class. That's a wait-and-see at best.

Whatever you say, but I fail to believe that the reason the Jets did worse against the Pats is that they are missing Thomas Jones and Damien Woody. They also added Coples and are using Maybin more. Those guys fly and with the Pats weaker run game they will have more chances to **** Brady's sh*t up.

Define "beyond hope."

If Sanchez and Greene and Coples and Scott and Landry and Tebow and Sparano and Holmes and Mangold and Hunter and Hill and...

THIS is where I get pissy with you. Do we need those guys to do anything great? Anything that they or their predecessors didn't do in 2009 and 2010? Is it unusual to believe that Landry might give us what Leonhard did before he got hurt? Seems rational to me. That Sanchez and Greene and Holmes give you what they gave in 2010. Crazy, I know.

Sanchez and Holmes are still here. Holmes blew off half of minicamp, then showed up long enough to tell Sparano how much effort he was willing to exert at practice, then said that two-QB systems don't work, then he acquired polio, apparently, because he hasn't been seen in uniform since. Dissension is a very, very real possibility there.

And nobody is saying there's no talent on the team. People are saying that there's no talent at the skill positions on offense outside of Holmes.

People are idiots. Shonn Greene is the best back on this team since 2004 and they have won with him. I'm not worried about "the skill positions". If everybody plays their role they can win and they can win against any team in the league. The two teams we watched play in February don't scare me. You complained when they went old last year, now you complain they have no talent? What is HIll? t He has as much "talent" as anybody. Can he play? Who the **** knows, but we are going to find out.

[ECURB]

What proof do you have that we are "headed" in a good direction. Evidence shows we are trending downward. I think we'll be better than last year, but Quinton Coples is pretty much the only (potential) improvement we have to go on right now.

The rbs will be better this year

Sparano's system will lead to better oline play

Holmes has a lot to prove this season

There are some nice additions to the defense

Revis is essentially in a contract year

Etc

Its all how you look at it

[THE ILK]

Next HC should be Ferentz from Iowa. IIRC he has a steely glare.

Is it Messier like?

[Lizard King]

I get it, its the "cool" thing to be down on the team you root for... I guess. But why is that? How much a large part of the regular posters here like to sh*t on the Jets every chance they get? Its a Jets forum but it seems all the Jets "fans" are more negative than the trolls who post here as Bills, Pats, Dolphins fans.

You sound like my mother

[SoFlaJets]

What IS it with the Jets and why is it that we can't seem to get and KEEP a receiving corps together? You see this year's crop of crap? This unit is as bad as any we've maybe EVER had. This reminds me of the Justin McCairens days when he was a starter and Coles was the best one we had. Look at the running game...does ANYBODY think that Shonn Greene can make it through a whoe season w/o getting hurt? Look at what's behind him. Mark Sanchez is going to be just as bad as he was last year with an offensive line that has gotten 1 year older and not done ONE SINGLE THING to improve. Tim Tebow will be the only thing keeping us in the weekly highlight shows because he WILL be the starting QB at some point before the weather turns cold in Jersey. Tony Sparano-love him as we all do is still the same guy who plays for the FG...this is MAYBE a 5-6 win team. This is just being pragmatic-NOT being negative this is what is called; calling it as you see it...sorry.I'm just glad that I CAN see it now because I will not let it bother me one bit because I'm expecting us to be battling for the cellar and playing for some hot shot top 10 draft pick. Just Watch the "We Should Draft so and so" threads will begin by Halloween this year.

[ZachEY]

The rbs will be better this year

Sparano's system will lead to better oline play

Holmes has a lot to prove this season

There are some nice additions to the defense

Revis is essentially in a contract year

Etc

Its all how you look at it

Wishful thinking does not equate to proof.

[JustInFudge]

What IS it with the Jets and why is it that we can't seem to get and KEEP a receiving corps together? You see this year's crop of crap? This unit is as bad as any we've maybe EVER had.

How could you possibly come to this conclusion without seeing them play a down of Football?

Look at the running game...does ANYBODY think that Shonn Greene can make it through a whoe season w/o getting hurt? Look at what's behind him.

Yes. And what is behind him? Hard to tell when they havent got a shot yet, no?

Mark Sanchez is going to be just as bad as he was last year with an offensive line that has gotten 1 year older and not done ONE SINGLE THING to improve.

You can see the future too? And what does 1 year older mean? If anything, the continuity on the line will be a good thing. Hunter now has a full year starting and a full offseason under his belt. Changing the OC and getting 4 guys for depth should help improve the line.

Tim Tebow will be the only thing keeping us in the weekly highlight shows because he WILL be the starting QB at some point before the weather turns cold in Jersey.

Can you tell me the winning lottery numbers please? thanks,

Tony Sparano-love him as we all do is still the same guy who plays for the FG...this is MAYBE a 5-6 win team.

What has the team lost thats going to make them 3-4 games worse than last year?

This is just being pragmatic-NOT being negative this is what is called; calling it as you see it...sorry.

No. Its negative. Your making statements with no justification which some are false and you have no clue how it will play out.

I'm just glad that I CAN see it now because I will not let it bother me one bit

This post would indicate that its already bothering you.

because I'm expecting us to be battling for the cellar and playing for some hot shot top 10 draft pick. Just Watch the "We Should Draft so and so" threads will begin by Halloween this year.

Yeah, that not negative....nah, not at all. lmfao

[SoFlaJets]

We'll see, I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. I've seen this movie too many times before, and I know a bad football team when I see one and from what I saw last week...

[stoicsentry]

What has the team lost thats going to make them 3-4 games worse than last year?

Thank you!!! This is the exact question that I've been asking for weeks and I've yet to get a straight answer. Yet people say we will be "8-8 at best," when 8-8 last year took a collapse (we were 8-5).

The answers seem to focus on two things only,

1. That other teams in the division improved. Which is interesting, because apparently teams can win on paper (as opposed to all of those years where we were told the Jets couldn't.)

2. That Rex has lost the locker room.

As it regards #1, the Pats are the Pats. Nothing new there. They can go 13-3 sure, but they are capable of that every year. Am I significantly more worried about the Pats than I usually am? No. Just about the same. They're a juggernaut with Brady, plain and simple. They still have a huge advantage against us, but Rex has shown us that his squad can beat them on any given Sunday (we were 3-2 vs them in 09 and 10).

The Dolphins though? They: have a new head coach, will probably have a new QB, and they lost their #1 weapon in Brandon Marshall. If anything, they got worse.

The Bills? Meh. For a team in nowheresville that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, they sure do have a propaganda machine. Every year they're supposed to make the playoffs... it's the boy that cried wolf. Yes, they got Mario Williams. Nice move. They can be better than they were last year. But, they haven't had a winning season in God only knows how long. They have lost 5 straight to us. 5 games is kind of a big deal in the NFL. It's not that they can't have a better record than us, it's that we have all earned the right to be plenty skeptical of them.

As it regards #2, Rex has shown a clear commitment to taking more control over the team (see: windsprints). One of our locker-room problems was Burress, and he's gone... good riddance. Another was Mason... also gone... good riddance. I never considered Cromartie a problem, and I still don't. He says nutty things, whatever... The only real problem is Holmes and I hope that without his buddy Burress (and without Mason for the few games he was here), Holmes will be isolated. Tebow, to me, actually adds to chemistry, not subtracts from it. He gives max effort, never sows dissension, real team player.

So let's look at our actual TEAM and see where we have downgraded:

QB: Same, but improved at backup QB.

RB: Slight downgrade in losing Tomlinson. Fortunately we have a number of guys competing here. And Tebow, though he will not be catching the ball out of the backfield, certainly does help the running game.

WR: Perhaps again slight downgrade in losing Burress, but here again, I'm not so sure. Bear in mind, Burress, although a beast in the red zone, sucked badly between the 20's... basically useless. For all we know, Hill could be an overall improvement in that at least he can stretch the field (Burress couldn't), seems to be a high effort guy, and isn't a problem in the lockerroom so far as we know.

OL: Same, though continuity is nice.

TE: Basically the same, though I'll take anyone over Mulligan.

DE: Should be improved, with a high 1st in Coples, the line has gotten younger and deeper. Most people expect Wilkerson to improve further, which could help this D-line transition into a beastly group.

DT: Same. If Ellis does nothing, same. If Ellis steps up, improved.

LB: Same. Slightly older hurts a bit, but there's a decent chance for improved. Scott can't get much worse than he was last year, but if he does, then he will be benched for rookie DeMario Davis who has a chance to be a real contributor.

CB: Same.

S: Vastly improved. Though I will miss Leonhard, I gotta say this group is flying under the radar. Landry and Bell are both quality pieces and a noticeable improvement over the Leonhard/Smith combo. Of course we still have Smith, and he can come off the bench as depth... not bad any time you can bench a starter. This is not to mention the draft picks Bush and Allen. If either one of those guys turns out, we've got a nice group here to compliment perhaps the best cornerback duo in the league.

[pointman]

You sound like my mother

I like her.

[slats]

Thank you!!! This is the exact question that I've been asking for weeks and I've yet to get a straight answer. Yet people say we will be "8-8 at best," when 8-8 last year took a collapse (we were 8-5).

The answers seem to focus on two things only,

1. That other teams in the division improved. Which is interesting, because apparently teams can win on paper (as opposed to all of those years where we were told the Jets couldn't.)

2. That Rex has lost the locker room.

As it regards #1, the Pats are the Pats. Nothing new there. They can go 13-3 sure, but they are capable of that every year. Am I significantly more worried about the Pats than I usually am? No. Just about the same. They're a juggernaut with Brady, plain and simple. They still have a huge advantage against us, but Rex has shown us that his squad can beat them on any given Sunday (we were 3-2 vs them in 09 and 10).

The Dolphins though? They: have a new head coach, will probably have a new QB, and they lost their #1 weapon in Brandon Marshall. If anything, they got worse.

The Bills? Meh. For a team in nowheresville that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, they sure do have a propaganda machine. Every year they're supposed to make the playoffs... it's the boy that cried wolf. Yes, they got Mario Williams. Nice move. They can be better than they were last year. But, they haven't had a winning season in God only knows how long. They have lost 5 straight to us. 5 games is kind of a big deal in the NFL. It's not that they can't have a better record than us, it's that we have all earned the right to be plenty skeptical of them.

As it regards #2, Rex has shown a clear commitment to taking more control over the team (see: windsprints). One of our locker-room problems was Burress, and he's gone... good riddance. Another was Mason... also gone... good riddance. I never considered Cromartie a problem, and I still don't. He says nutty things, whatever... The only real problem is Holmes and I hope that without his buddy Burress (and without Mason for the few games he was here), Holmes will be isolated. Tebow, to me, actually adds to chemistry, not subtracts from it. He gives max effort, never sows dissension, real team player.

So let's look at our actual TEAM and see where we have downgraded:

QB: Same, but improved at backup QB.

RB: Slight downgrade in losing Tomlinson. Fortunately we have a number of guys competing here. And Tebow, though he will not be catching the ball out of the backfield, certainly does help the running game.

WR: Perhaps again slight downgrade in losing Burress, but here again, I'm not so sure. Bear in mind, Burress, although a beast in the red zone, sucked badly between the 20's... basically useless. For all we know, Hill could be an overall improvement in that at least he can stretch the field (Burress couldn't), seems to be a high effort guy, and isn't a problem in the lockerroom so far as we know.

OL: Same, though continuity is nice.

TE: Basically the same, though I'll take anyone over Mulligan.

DE: Should be improved, with a high 1st in Coples, the line has gotten younger and deeper. Most people expect Wilkerson to improve further, which could help this D-line transition into a beastly group.

DT: Same. If Ellis does nothing, same. If Ellis steps up, improved.

LB: Same. Slightly older hurts a bit, but there's a decent chance for improved. Scott can't get much worse than he was last year, but if he does, then he will be benched for rookie DeMario Davis who has a chance to be a real contributor.

CB: Same.

S: Vastly improved. Though I will miss Leonhard, I gotta say this group is flying under the radar. Landry and Bell are both quality pieces and a noticeable improvement over the Leonhard/Smith combo. Of course we still have Smith, and he can come off the bench as depth... not bad any time you can bench a starter. This is not to mention the draft picks Bush and Allen. If either one of those guys turns out, we've got a nice group here to compliment perhaps the best cornerback duo in the league.

I don't get it, either.

Add to all this that by most accounts the Jets' schedule this year is supposed to be pretty easy, and I just don't understand the doomsday predictions.

[Lizard King]

I like her.

She's a doll. She was also married to a Jets season ticket holder for 10 years and ended up getting divorced, moving to Florida and opening a meditation practice.

Does that give you any glimpse at all into why we are like we are?

[JetsFanInDenver]

Do not think anyone here is anti-JETS. Except the trolls!

[SenorGato]

Is it Messier like?

How many other steely glares are there? OH that's right, MANY. EAT IT RANGERS FAN!

[SenorGato]

Here's a recently taken picture of Lundqvist relaxing during the offseason in his pads:

[Smashmouth]

What IS it with the Jets and why is it that we can't seem to get and KEEP a receiving corps together? You see this year's crop of crap? This unit is as bad as any we've maybe EVER had. This reminds me of the Justin McCairens days when he was a starter and Coles was the best one we had. Look at the running game...does ANYBODY think that Shonn Greene can make it through a whoe season w/o getting hurt? Look at what's behind him. Mark Sanchez is going to be just as bad as he was last year with an offensive line that has gotten 1 year older and not done ONE SINGLE THING to improve. Tim Tebow will be the only thing keeping us in the weekly highlight shows because he WILL be the starting QB at some point before the weather turns cold in Jersey. Tony Sparano-love him as we all do is still the same guy who plays for the FG...this is MAYBE a 5-6 win team. This is just being pragmatic-NOT being negative this is what is called; calling it as you see it...sorry.I'm just glad that I CAN see it now because I will not let it bother me one bit because I'm expecting us to be battling for the cellar and playing for some hot shot top 10 draft pick. Just Watch the "We Should Draft so and so" threads will begin by Halloween this year.

Much easier just to blame it all o the QB . See how easy that was ?

[Smashmouth]

What IS it with the Jets and why is it that we can't seem to get and KEEP a receiving corps together? You see this year's crop of crap? This unit is as bad as any we've maybe EVER had. This reminds me of the Justin McCairens days when he was a starter and Coles was the best one we had. Look at the running game...does ANYBODY think that Shonn Greene can make it through a whoe season w/o getting hurt? Look at what's behind him. Mark Sanchez is going to be just as bad as he was last year with an offensive line that has gotten 1 year older and not done ONE SINGLE THING to improve. Tim Tebow will be the only thing keeping us in the weekly highlight shows because he WILL be the starting QB at some point before the weather turns cold in Jersey. Tony Sparano-love him as we all do is still the same guy who plays for the FG...this is MAYBE a 5-6 win team. This is just being pragmatic-NOT being negative this is what is called; calling it as you see it...sorry.I'm just glad that I CAN see it now because I will not let it bother me one bit because I'm expecting us to be battling for the cellar and playing for some hot shot top 10 draft pick. Just Watch the "We Should Draft so and so" threads will begin by Halloween this year.

Ok for real.

We were a good Running team for 2 years With a Healthy Moore and Woody and we predominantly ran right. As soon as Woody left and Moore was basicly playing hurt this line just cant run the football nor can it Pass Protect. D Brick is the most over rated player on this team and he can not run block nor can Slauson. Im not sure how much Moore actully has left. The only real solid Player on the offensive line is Mangold and it was obvious last year when he got hurt our O-Line was probably the worst in the NFL for those few games. Its was a disaster. We do not have the elusive type backs to succeed behind this line and Both our Tackles give up way to many sacks and pressures. D-brick had some good years he needs, no he MUST get back to that form or we are dead.

I Thnk we made a good move In getting Hill in the draft and failed in every other way with our Receivng Corp as per the Jet usual for the past 12 years . While I think Schilens could be a real threat the guy just cant stay healthy and that brings us to the second most over rated player on the team Santonio Holmes. While he has talent he cant do it alone, he is NOT a number 1 WR and never will be. But with good support he can make the occasional big play and thats all that he is, nothing more. People pump up Kerley, in typical Jets fan Fashion, but hes not among the better slot receivers in the league and I dont suspect he will be since he always seems to be nursing some type of nagging injury.

Sanchez IMO tries to do too much forcing himself into mistakes that lead to turnovers. He does have the drive to win however, and I think hes passionate about the game, but I really think hes dealing with a bunch of misfits at the skill positions. I think every QB the last 12 years here since we Dumped Keyshawn has dealt with the same situation. Our offense seems lazy and non focused and cant ever seem to get in a rhythm. I blamed a lot of that on Shottenheimer because of the dumb plays he would call once the team seemed to get rolling so We will see how Sparano handles that. If I see the Jets drive 50 yards with Sanchez leading a good drive and seemingly in a good rhythm and I see Sparano call a wildcat Play Im going to go ****ing ballistic because thats the main reason I wanted Shott out of here. Keller is a Good TE but at times his head is up his ass and that needs to stop. It onlt takes one play to stop a drive and Keller is the guy that we need to be Marks out when things break down. He needs to be the guy Mark relies on at all times and Keller at times just plays lazy. That sh*t needs to stop.

When it comes to defense we seem to have a championship caliber Defense and I think we have Improved a lot this offseason but we have to be a bit more clutch on defense. When we need the big stop we dont seem to get it and that has been a problem for a few years. I think that changes this year but it depends on weather Bell and Landry can actully stop a TE and Demario Davis May play a big part as well. Its time to move away from our older slower LB's and give Kids like Davis Bellore and McEntyre more playing time, it will certainly help keep our older guys fresh if we sub out a bit more. maybin is a one trick Pony and will NEVER play full time at LB its just not happening. He is quick but him getting shut down the last 4 games of last season is a question mark. When he engages a blocker he is TERRIBLE the guy only does well if he outright beats his blocker but even then he over runs a lot of plays and gets sacks due to a good motor and very solid coverage. Hes also a bit over rated by Jets fans IMO

Special teams has me worried because I think receiving Punts is going to be an issue this year, and if it is, it can easily cost us a few games. McKnight should be no where near receiving punts and Kerley is a bit Shakey as well I think he had 2 fumbles last year and a few muffs. Not a good sign. White is hurt will he have a cance t even make the team ? No matter who returns Kickoffs in Westhoffs system seems to excell so I think if McKnight keeps that spot (which he will) we will be ok. Our coverage is always good as well with Westy running the show.

if everything goes our way I think we can have a good playoff caliber Football team if the very slightest goes wrong with out O-Line or if someone gets hurt this year could spiral out of control very quickly. I was one who warned about O-Line depth last year and Im taking the same stance this year. I think this team is good but hanging by a thread in certain areas WR/OL that can really do us damage Hopefully we stay healthy.

[jgb]

realism.

• our offensive skill positions are lower quartile certainly, arguably bottom 5.
  
• oline is a sieve
  
• not sure sanchez can produce with stud WRs/TEs, extreme doubts with what we have
  
• LBs are washed up; two talented but major ? marks at S
  
• no faith dline can produce sacks absent blitzes
  
• same division as brady
  
• new offensive system, likely to be kinks
  
• tebow feels like a massive sleight of hand trick that may dazzle at times but in reality is just a gimmick
  
• ground and pound with shonne green??? sounds like rex is trying obfuscation because i don't believe they have the oline or tools for ground and pound
  
• kicker stinks
  
• punter is a JAG
  

always hoping for the best but 4 to 6 wins would not surprise be at all. i predict a lost year with many familiar faces gone next offseason.

[slats]

realism.

• our offensive skill positions are lower quartile certainly, arguably bottom 5.
  
• oline is a sieve
  
• not sure sanchez can produce with stud WRs/TEs, extreme doubts with what we have
  
• LBs are washed up; two talented but major ? marks at S
  
• no faith dline can produce sacks absent blitzes
  
• same division as brady
  
• new offensive system, likely to be kinks
  
• tebow feels like a massive sleight of hand trick that may dazzle at times but in reality is just a gimmick
  
• ground and pound with shonne green??? sounds like rex is trying obfuscation because i don't believe they have the oline or tools for ground and pound
  
• kicker stinks
  
• punter is a JAG
  

always hoping for the best but 4 to 6 wins would not surprise be at all. i predict a lost year with many familiar faces gone next offseason.

You're seriously listing the DL as an issue?

Anyway, what's changed that makes the team 2-4 wins worse than last year? Sparano for Schottenheimer? Plaxico for Hill? What?

[jgb]

You're seriously listing the DL as an issue?

Anyway, what's changed that makes the team 2-4 wins worse than last year? Sparano for Schottenheimer? Plaxico for Hill? What?

going to take more than one preseason game to convince me this unit can create pressure on its own. what's changed? bills and arguably miami took steps forward for one and our LB core got a year older. i like sparano -always have- hard to believe schott would have called the games he did though if sanchez could man an arial attack. guess we'll see

[slats]

going to take more than one preseason game to convince me this unit can create pressure on its own. what's changed? bills and arguably miami took steps forward for one and our LB core got a year older. i like sparano -always have- hard to believe schott would have called the games he did though if sanchez could man an arial attack. guess we'll see

I get not believing that they're a super bowl team, but they were 8-5 last year before falling apart and finishing 8-8. Just don't see how they've gone from there to 6-10 or 4-12.

[SoFlaJets]

I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right and I don't need to be forgiven

[Vudu]

Because we''re tired of ****ing sucking.

[BP]

What's a regular?

[T0mShane]

I've said it for decades: the great joy of being a Jets fan is being around for the annual Turning o' The Homer.

[jumpinjoe]

They're sick of watching this garbage

[Lady Jet]

I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right and I don't need to be forgiven

Who are you?