Why didn't Cedric Houston and BJ Askew get any carries?

[Preston Howley III]

Can anybody answer this question?

They actually did better than Curtis has all season. So why did Herm wait until the team was 2-10 to give them some carriers?

[GimmeShelter]

Houston was 28 carries for 74 yds Moses.

Granted we need to see what Houston has for future seasons but Martin gets killed for those type games and indeed has had better ones this season.

Askew looked real good.

[Preston Howley III]

Houston was 28 carries for 74 yds Moses.

No worse than anything Martin has done all season.

[RSJ]

Great question.

Wish I had an answer.

[Blackout]

No worse than anything Martin has done all season.

cedric had 2.6 yards per carry

curtis atleast had over 3 yards per carry

the jets have never lost a game when Curtis had over 25 carries, thier record with Cedric having over 25 carries in a game is now 0-1

[Bugg]

Since football started, teams winning the game run the ball late to run out the clock, ergo, running backs pile up carries and yards late in the game. You see an effect of winning football and mistake for a cause.

Don't feel so bad; Joe Theismann also believes that based on such misuse of statistics a team should merely hand the ball off every play rather than look at how and why that happenes.

Still, Askew and Houston, as many of yus said would happen, were no worse and simply better than the old injured WARRIOR. And much the same thing goes for Bollinger as opposed to brining in Testaverde-he was effective when he ws allowed to play.

Today raises more queestions AGAIN about Edwards' abilities to judge and manage talent. And the answers should cause someone who knows what they're doing to question why this guy is still here after New Year's Day. But I don't know if there is such a person in power.

[faba]

I have been on Houston right from when we picked him in the draft with EricBarton- the guy can be a decent back. Askew showed more today than his 3 previous years given an opportunity-too bad it took Edwards so long to give anyone else an opportunity

[Preston Howley III]

Herm has once again totally mismanaged the personel on this roster. Once again, let me preface this post by stating that under the circumstances (the injuries to Fiedler, Mawae, Pennington et al) I had no unreasonable expectations on this team (ie the playoffs).

But since week 2, Herm has stuck with a RB with a banged up knee. Why? It made no sense.

His other big blunder, was the panic move with Goodwin and Kendall.

And finally, his waterloo was bringing Vinny back. Bollinger, for all his faults, has outperformed Vinny. So bringing Vinny back as some panacea was totally out of line.

If Herm just keeps Goodwin at center, spells Martin for carries during games from the get go, and sticks it out with Bolly, I think the outcome would be thus:

1. The team would have at least 5 wins. So all this "lose out and win the Reggie Bush sweepstakes" would be moot.

2. Martin's injury would have stablilized, and he'd still be playing, and would probably get his 1000 yards.

And this is not second guessing. This was the obvious SOP that should have been adhered too, if we didn't have two incompetent morons running the team.

[The Troll]

cedric had 2.6 yards per carry

curtis atleast had over 3 yards per carry

the jets have never lost a game when Curtis had over 25 carries, thier record with Cedric having over 25 carries in a game is now 0-1

Umm, the Jets won today, thus making them 1-0 when Houston has 25+ carries.

But, unfortunately, I have to agree. Houston put up very Martin-like numbers. Nothing special here. The Jets won the game because of Tuiasosopo, not because of Cedric Houston's 2.5 yards per carry.

[sluke88]

They dont get any carries becuase the Jets will wait until Martin gets injured, then they will win the game so that they have no chance in getting Reggie Bush. Typical New York Jets football.. what else shoudl we have expected?

[GimmeShelter]

Not a huge Herm fan but funny how some will use a 2.6 YPC game by Houston to reiterate their feelings against Herm.

[Preston Howley III]

They dont get any carries becuase the Jets will wait until Martin gets injured, then they will win the game so that they have no chance in getting Reggie Bush. Typical New York Jets football.. what else shoudl we have expected?

Point taken, but what is getting lost in the wash here is this reality:

The ONLY reason a huge contingency of Jets fans are disappointed about being out of the Reggie Bush sweepstakes, is because we were only in the running because of Herms incompetency as a HC.

Getting mad that he actually did something right today (won the game) is after the fact.

Look, if Herm never brings Vinny back, moves Kendall to center, and actually gives Cedric carries (and BJ Askew) before Curtis is on the IR, this team right now is no worse than 5-8.

The whole thing was just a damn tease.

[Blackout]

Umm, the Jets won today, thus making them 1-0 when Houston has 25+ carries.

But, unfortunately, I have to agree. Houston put up very Martin-like numbers. Nothing special here. The Jets won the game because of Tuiasosopo, not because of Cedric Houston's 2.5 yards per carry.

oh yeah, im so used to the Jets losing that I chalked them down for one today

[Preston Howley III]

Total rushing yards were 184 yards.

What was the highest total in games this season that Martin was the primary ball carrier?

Point being, a tandem is more efficient than a sytem that gives 99.9% of the carries to a RB with a busted up knee.

If Herm can split carries between Askew and Houston, why couldn't he do the same thing with Martin/Houston or prior to this season, Martin/Jordan?

Riddle me this.

[shawn306]

It all comes to being able to produce.

Everyone killed Abraham last year, calling him a wuss for not playing with an injured knee and now Jets fans are killing Martin for playing with an injured knee.

So which is it ?

[Preston Howley III]

It all comes to being able to produce.

Everyone killed Abraham last year, calling him a wuss for not playing with an injured knee and now Jets fans are killing Martin for playing with an injured knee.

So which is it ?

No, no, no. Don't obfuscate. Martin's desire to play with a broken knee is a seperate issue from Herm playing an injured Martin and giving him all the carries, vs playing an injured Martin in a tandem role with Houston.

Even if Martin didn't bang up his knee in week 2, I still would like to know why he can't be used in tandem with another back. But the fact that he has been playing on a bad knee all season, and Herm STILL refused to give Houston a carry, is a clear demonstration of incompetence at the highest level.

And anyway there is no comparison between Abe and Martin's situation-

One did not have a guaranteed contract, and therefore opted out of playing because of the risk vs reward, while another has a contract through the next 3 years and wants to break Emmitt Smiths records.

Big difference.

[Preston Howley III]

One other point-

Somebody (Herm?) should have had a heart to heart with Curtis Martin 5 seasons ago and told him "Emmitt set all those records in the prime of his career. You are on the tail end of your career. There is no way to play catchup at this point. Let's not even entertain the possibility of doing it and concentrate on winning a championship."

But that's not what happened. What did happen was Curtis let Herm know what his goals were, and Herm has done everything to accomodate him, at the detriment of other players on the team.

That is the reality, and that is exactly what has happened. I know some of you can't except those facts, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't see this, it's because you ain't looking.

And now Curtis is going to play the role of the martyr-

I'm not selfish. Look, if I cared about that record, would I have opted to have surgery and ended my season.

To that, I say BS. The reason why you need surgery on that knee, is because you have been overworking it for 11 weeks, because you thought you could tough it out, as you have always done in the past. If Herm wasn't so obsessed with feeding you all the carries, and had spelled you with Houston and/or Askew, say, ten carries a game, or even sat you for a game or two, you would probably still be playing and might still be able to get your coveted 11th season rushing for a 1000 yards.

It's finally blown up in both their faces. It's a damn shame, too.

How many players who's careers are in jeopardy or were cut short due to injuries that could have been avoided?

And please, don't give me this crap that it was ok for Pennington to play all last season with a torn rotator cuff because he "couldn't do any more damage to it, anyway". That is BS.

Herm runs players into the ground and destroys them. The fact that players willingly go along is besides the point. Herm should have enough sense to see what he's doing. And then the moron let's John Lott get away, probably because his players were complaining too much about mandatory weight room sessions.

[DHJF]

But that's not what happened. What did happen was Curtis let Herm know what his goals were, and Herm has done everything to accomodate him, at the detriment of other players on the team.

That is the reality, and that is exactly what has happened. I know some of you can't except those facts, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't see this, it's because you ain't looking.

And now Curtis is going to play the role of the martyr-

I'm not selfish. Look, if I cared about that record, would I have opted to have surgery and ended my season.

Sooooo, you're calling Martin selfish? Saying he doesn't want to win a Championship? Never did? It was always about meeting personal goals/records?

[Preston Howley III]

Not a huge Herm fan but funny how some will use a 2.6 YPC game by Houston to reiterate their feelings against Herm.

And what about Askew? Or better yet, Bollinger? I think Bollinger's rushing YPC is actually higher than Martins (or anybody elses).

[Scott Dierking]

One other point-

Somebody (Herm?) should have had a heart to heart with Curtis Martin 5 seasons ago and told him "Emmitt set all those records in the prime of his career. You are on the tail end of your career. There is no way to play catchup at this point. Let's not even entertain the possibility of doing it and concentrate on winning a championship."

But that's not what happened. What did happen was Curtis let Herm know what his goals were, and Herm has done everything to accomodate him, at the detriment of other players on the team.

That is the reality, and that is exactly what has happened. I know some of you can't except those facts, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't see this, it's because you ain't looking.

And now Curtis is going to play the role of the martyr-

I'm not selfish. Look, if I cared about that record, would I have opted to have surgery and ended my season.

To that, I say BS. The reason why you need surgery on that knee, is because you have been overworking it for 11 weeks, because you thought you could tough it out, as you have always done in the past. If Herm wasn't so obsessed with feeding you all the carries, and had spelled you with Houston and/or Askew, say, ten carries a game, or even sat you for a game or two, you would probably still be playing and might still be able to get your coveted 11th season rushing for a 1000 yards.

It's finally blown up in both their faces. It's a damn shame, too.

How many players who's careers are in jeopardy or were cut short due to injuries that could have been avoided?

And please, don't give me this crap that it was ok for Pennington to play all last season with a torn rotator cuff because he "couldn't do any more damage to it, anyway". That is BS.

Herm runs players into the ground and destroys them. The fact that players willingly go along is besides the point. Herm should have enough sense to see what he's doing. And then the moron let's John Lott get away, probably because his players were complaining too much about mandatory weight room sessions.

Define reality

[Preston Howley III]

Define reality

Boundless Samadhi!

[Bugg]

Sooooo, you're calling Martin selfish? Saying he doesn't want to win a Championship? Never did? It was always about meeting personal goals/records?

"NEver" isn't the case. But as this season has gone off the rails Edwards has allowed Martin's perosnal goals to become the team's goals at the expense of developing Houston and Askew. No player worth his salt wants to sit. It's the coach's job to do what's best for the team ratehr than cater to one player at everyoen else's expense.

And we've been over this ground a lot-backs his age are either done or getting done. For the Jets as a franchise to allow the abberation of last year to overrule common sense, i.e. a committee of backs among Houston/Martin/Askew made more sense than giving martin all the carries, was a HUGE mistake. And it probably costg them 4-5 wins, along with the Bollinger/Vinny mess.

There's no oldtimer's days nor farewell tours in the NFL. And Martin is no better than anyone else. In fact, among tthe top backs, he's at the bottom of the list. Heck, I'd bet you could go 20 all time abcks before Martin's name comes up.

[Scott Dierking]

"NEver" isn't the case. But as this season has gone off the rails Edwards has allowed Martin's perosnal goals to become the team's goals at the expense of developing Houston and Askew. No player worth his salt wants to sit. It's the coach's job to do what's best for the team ratehr than cater to one player at everyoen else's expense.

And we've been over this ground a lot-backs his age are either done or getting done. For the Jets as a franchise to allow the abberation of last year to overrule common sense, i.e. a committee of backs among Houston/Martin/Askew made more sense than giving martin all the carries, was a HUGE mistake. And it probably costg them 4-5 wins, along with the Bollinger/Vinny mess.

There's no oldtimer's days nor farewell tours in the NFL. And Martin is no better than anyone else. In fact, among tthe top backs, he's at the bottom of the list. Heck, I'd bet you could go 20 all time abcks before Martin's name comes up.

I agree with what you say, but to call an entire season an "aberration" is stretching a point.

[DHJF]

"NEver" isn't the case. But as this season has gone off the rails Edwards has allowed Martin's perosnal goals to become the team's goals at the expense of developing Houston and Askew. No player worth his salt wants to sit. It's the coach's job to do what's best for the team ratehr than cater to one player at everyoen else's expense.

And we've been over this ground a lot-backs his age are either done or getting done. For the Jets as a franchise to allow the abberation of last year to overrule common sense, i.e. a committee of backs among Houston/Martin/Askew made more sense than giving martin all the carries, was a HUGE mistake. And it probably costg them 4-5 wins, along with the Bollinger/Vinny mess.

There's no oldtimer's days nor farewell tours in the NFL. And Martin is no better than anyone else. In fact, among tthe top backs, he's at the bottom of the list. Heck, I'd bet you could go 20 all time abcks before Martin's name comes up.

The bottom line is this: Herm gets all of the blame, not Martin.

Martin had goals and portrayed them to his coach. I have a goal to become VP of Sales in my company, and I portray that to my boss all of the time. Does that make me selfish?

All I'm saying is that blaming Martin for this season's mishaps....calling him selfish....is simply ludicrous. Despite what some of you may believe, Herm has the final say as to who plays, not Martin.

This debacle lies squarely on the shoulders of Edwards. Period.

[Preston Howley III]

Sooooo, you're calling Martin selfish? Saying he doesn't want to win a Championship? Never did? It was always about meeting personal goals/records?

He wanted to win a championship in '98 and '99. Just like everybody else on that team, did. Since then, they have all been looking out for number one. They learned the CYA approach from watching experts like Herm and Bradway, who have job security down to a science.

And another thing, Martin's desire to help this team win a championship has never lent itself well to results. With the exception of the Jax playoff game and the Colts playoff game, where has he done anything? The last big game I can recall Martin having was in 2003, against the Steelers in the snow, during the 6-10 season.

Look at all the disastrous (regular season) losses this team has had since Martin's been here-

The second Bills game in 2001 (I know, they still beat Oakland a week later to make the playoffs, thanks to rescheduling) was a huge loss. Martin didn't do sht in that game.

The Bears game in Champaign in 2002, where Martin kept getting carries in the 4th quarter like the Jets were the ones protecting a lead looking to run the clock out, not the other way around.

The Steelers game last year. Martin was a no show.

Playoffs? Last year, Steelers again. Martin- NO SHOW. But it was all Doug Briens fault, I know.

Broncos AFC championship game- 18 yards and a fumble.

C'mon man. It is what it is. I blame Herm and Terry for all of this. This team has been poorly run, coached and managed for 5 seasons now.

I'm sick and tired of them burying all of their mistakes under Penningtons injuries. The fact is and always will be, Pennington, when healthy, covers up all of their warts. And when he can't play, we see the true character and ability of Herm and Terry.

I mean, c'mon. They brought Vinny back. What the hell was that all about?

These guys don't have a clue.

[SouthernJet]

He wanted to win a championship in '98 and '99. Just like everybody else on that team, did. Since then, they have all been looking out for number one. They learned the CYA approach from watching experts like Herm and Bradway, who have job security down to a science.

And another thing, Martin's desire to help this team win a championship has never lent itself well to results. With the exception of the Jax playoff game and the Colts playoff game, where has he done anything? The last big game I can recall Martin having was in 2003, against the Steelers in the snow, during the 6-10 season.

Look at all the disastrous (regular season) losses this team has had since Martin's been here-

The second Bills game in 2001 (I know, they still beat Oakland a week later to make the playoffs, thanks to rescheduling) was a huge loss. Martin didn't do sht in that game.

The Bears game in Champaign in 2002, where Martin kept getting carries in the 4th quarter like the Jets were the ones protecting a lead looking to run the clock out, not the other way around.

The Steelers game last year. Martin was a no show.

Playoffs? Last year, Steelers again. Martin- NO SHOW. But it was all Doug Briens fault, I know.

Broncos AFC championship game- 18 yards and a fumble.

C'mon man. It is what it is. I blame Herm and Terry for all of this. This team has been poorly run, coached and managed for 5 seasons now.

I'm sick and tired of them burying all of their mistakes under Penningtons injuries. The fact is and always will be, Pennington, when healthy, covers up all of their warts. And when he can't play, we see the true character and ability of Herm and Terry.

I mean, c'mon. They brought Vinny back. What the hell was that all about?

These guys don't have a clue.

herm was only forced to play penny thru injury in beginning,,

the man doesnt know how to bench veterans,, thats why u dont want explayers as HCs

[DHJF]

He wanted to win a championship in '98 and '99. Just like everybody else on that team, did. Since then, they have all been looking out for number one. They learned the CYA approach from watching experts like Herm and Bradway, who have job security down to a science.

And another thing, Martin's desire to help this team win a championship has never lent itself well to results. With the exception of the Jax playoff game and the Colts playoff game, where has he done anything? The last big game I can recall Martin having was in 2003, against the Steelers in the snow, during the 6-10 season.

Look at all the disastrous (regular season) losses this team has had since Martin's been here-

The second Bills game in 2001 (I know, they still beat Oakland a week later to make the playoffs, thanks to rescheduling) was a huge loss. Martin didn't do sht in that game.

The Bears game in Champaign in 2002, where Martin kept getting carries in the 4th quarter like the Jets were the ones protecting a lead looking to run the clock out, not the other way around.

The Steelers game last year. Martin was a no show.

Playoffs? Last year, Steelers again. Martin- NO SHOW. But it was all Doug Briens fault, I know.

Broncos AFC championship game- 18 yards and a fumble.

C'mon man. It is what it is. I blame Herm and Terry for all of this. This team has been poorly run, coached and managed for 5 seasons now.

I'm sick and tired of them burying all of their mistakes under Penningtons injuries. The fact is and always will be, Pennington, when healthy, covers up all of their warts. And when he can't play, we see the true character and ability of Herm and Terry.

I mean, c'mon. They brought Vinny back. What the hell was that all about?

These guys don't have a clue.

Okay Mo, we'll agree to disagree about Martin's "selfishness."

But I do agree with your assessment of our fearless leaders (and I use that term loosely).

[Preston Howley III]

Okay Mo, we'll agree to disagree about Martin's "selfishness."

But I do agree with your assessment of our fearless leaders (and I use that term loosely).

I hear ya. Look, I'm not trying to run Martin down, although I'm coming across that way. We both agree Herm and Terry are the problem with this team.

Bottom line, Martin was brought here by Parcells to win a championship. Once Parcells was gone, and the team went through a year of instability, I think the mindset of alot of players changed, including Martin. And when pushover Herm came in, glad handing and people pleasing, i think certain players endeared themselves to him and persueded him to help them achieve personal goals.

That much I have no doubt.

When all is said and done, Martin's legacy as Curtis Martin is HOF. Martin as a Jet? Didn't win any championships, and that was all he was brought here to do. But somewhere along the way (2001 to present) priorities got confused.

We should have just kept Adrian Murrell. That's going to be the last word in the final chapter in the book on Curtis Martin.

And I loved the guy, too. Believe me.

I feel let down and betrayed.