Bugg Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/rbindex.htm Guys who are clearly superior- Jim Brown Barry Sanders OJ Simpson(he's a killer, but we're going by how he played!) Franco Harris John Riggins Emmitt Smith Earl Campbell Walter Payton Tony Dorsett Marcus Allen Edgerrin James Marshall Faulk Ladamian Tomlinson Eddie George Gale Sayers Tiki Barber(kills me, but since he solved his fumbleitis, he's a better player) Thurman Thomas Comparables- Garrison Hearst Shaun Alexander(let's see where he is in 10 years) Terrell Owens(even in a short career, sytem be damned, I think he was better) Fred Taylor Priest Holmes Jerome Bettis(different type back, but overall, stats be damned, better when it mattered) OJ Anderson(not as durable, but pretty damn good, and he hoisted a Lombardi, which counts for something) Curt Warner(very similar, solid, not spectacular) Guys he was better than- Larry Csonka(different kind of back; Edwards should send hima fruitbasket every Christmas for the Fumble) Eric Dickerson(in the HoF, but stats be damned, he was heartless and gutless; a whiner from beginning to end) Freeman McNeil Deuce McAlister Clinton Portis Let the debate begin in earnest. This is one guy's impression. What's yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I did this with Savage in August and do not want to go as in depth now. I ranked Martin somewhere around 15-20 of teh all-time backs that I had rated. Some comments on some of your top-tier -I never had the opp to really watch Sayers-so I can't rate hime -Earl Campbell burned out too quickly, as well he did not come up well in big games. If I were to build a franchise, I would take Martin over him, knowing what I know (granted, that is a luxury in this mental game). Eddie George- I just think Martin was more rounded and a gamer. They are similar backs. The one lasting memory I have of George is that playoff game where Lewis wrestled that INT away from him. Similar backs, but Martin did it longer and better which rates him higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 Campbell, in his defense, lost an AFC title game to the Steelers due to a blown call on a Oilers pass to Mike Barber on the back line that should have been a TD. In fact, that play was instrumental in getting "instant" replay in the game. Granetd, his career burned out, but on his days ghe was much more dominant than damn near anyone. In fact, if we're talking one guy in his prime, he'd be my pick.Not hsi fault Bum Phillips play book was neanderthal dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Guys he was better than- Freeman McNeil Freeman McNeil was the best (most dominating and impactful) RB in Jets history. In his prime, he was totally unstopable. Martin may have better numbers due to longevity, but McNeil put more fear into opposing defenses then Martin could ever dream to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Freeman McNeil was the best (most dominating and impactful) RB in Jets history. In his prime, he was totally unstopable. Martin may have better numbers due to longevity, but McNeil put more fear into opposing defenses then Martin could ever dream to. TX-Durability has to play into an analysis-Freeman just was not durable. He also mentally shut down one game where he had to throw a low block (it was legal then) and cut someone's knees and he got hurt. Freeman was a very good back, but not on the scale of Martin when you look at all the variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Freeman McNeil was the best (most dominating and impactful) RB in Jets history. In his prime, he was totally unstopable. Martin may have better numbers due to longevity, but McNeil put more fear into opposing defenses then Martin could ever dream to. Freeman couldn't stay on the field. That has to be a factor. Unless of course you are saying ONE GAME, who would you pick. In which case I don't disagree with you. Curtis has come up short in the big games. Luckily he is on the Jets and the big games are few and far in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Bugg - You can't kill Herm for not putting his players in positions to succeed over the last 5 years and then at the same time knock the guy who has been most successfull under Herm - it just doesn't make sense imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 RS- This is more big picture looking back at martin's career than anything else. Which is why it has less to do with stats than simply who was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 TX-Durability has to play into an analysis-Freeman just was not durable. He also mentally shut down one game where he had to throw a low block (it was legal then) and cut someone's knees and he got hurt. Freeman was a very good back, but not on the scale of Martin when you look at all the variables. OK Dierk, I agree with you that longevity is important. But man, do I remember in the mid-80's McNeil ripping through the Pats D. He was a very exciting RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 OK Dierk, I agree with you that longevity is important. But man, do I remember in the mid-80's McNeil ripping through the Pats D. He was a very exciting RB. Who didn't rip through the Pats D in the 80s??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Who didn't rip through the Pats D in the 80s??? You have a damn good point right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 But man, do I remember in the mid-80's McNeil ripping through the Pats D. He was a very exciting RB. mcneil and hector were a leathel combination on those teams - it's too bad herm never saw those tapes. he would have seen what is possible when you utilize 2 backs in the offense instead of just 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Who didn't rip through the Pats D in the 80s??? William "The Refrigerator" Perry. He was more of a strong lean forward with a slight gravitional pull. Martin's place I would not agree with all of Bugg's breakdowns because I think there is a clear Best and then everybody else. Brown. Sanders. Payton. Smith. The Best of the Best. Head and Shoulders above the rest. IMHO it is only a matter of time before LT prooves otherwise worthy of inclusion and makes this a five member group. The rest are great in their own ways but clearly a second tier below the best of the best. I think Martin belongs in this second group. I might not put him close to the top of this group, but he deserves a place in their company. If you throw in Campbell, whose career as already mentioned was cut short by injuries, you must give Martin props for being as healthy as he has been up until now. Martin is not the only back to come up short in big games. Campbell did, it must be noted he had the misfortune of playing one of the best Ds ever, but I digress. The bus has come up short in the big game on a few ocassions to. The bottomline for Martin is this, he might not be the fastest, the biggest bruiser, the swiftest, but he was dependable. His coach, his teammates and his fans knew they had a back capable of being able to produce week in and week out. In the end being the healthiest back ever might be the sexiest thing to latch onto, but it served him well enough to put up some great numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 mcneil and hector were a leathel combination on those teams - it's too bad herm never saw those tapes. he would have seen what is possible when you utilize 2 backs in the offense instead of just 1. We have a Bingo!! I've said that for years! If you have 2 good backs use them both! But NOOOOO the Martinettes cried..we need to compile stats for the Legend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 We have a Bingo!! I've said that for years! If you have 2 good backs use them both! But NOOOOO the Martinettes cried..we need to compile stats for the Legend! I wanted Jordan & Martin in the backfield together or put one in the slot. We now see that Jordan is a good pass catcher. Really would of open up everything. Would of given DC's a headache trying to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 William "The Refrigerator" Perry. He was more of a strong lean forward with a slight gravitional pull. Martin's place I would not agree with all of Bugg's breakdowns because I think there is a clear Best and then everybody else. Brown. Sanders. Payton. Smith. The Best of the Best. Head and Shoulders above the rest. IMHO it is only a matter of time before LT prooves otherwise worthy of inclusion and makes this a five member group. The rest are great in their own ways but clearly a second tier below the best of the best. I think Martin belongs in this second group. I might not put him close to the top of this group, but he deserves a place in their company. If you throw in Campbell, whose career as already mentioned was cut short by injuries, you must give Martin props for being as healthy as he has been up until now. Martin is not the only back to come up short in big games. Campbell did, it must be noted he had the misfortune of playing one of the best Ds ever, but I digress. The bus has come up short in the big game on a few ocassions to. The bottomline for Martin is this, he might not be the fastest, the biggest bruiser, the swiftest, but he was dependable. His coach, his teammates and his fans knew they had a back capable of being able to produce week in and week out. In the end being the healthiest back ever might be the sexiest thing to latch onto, but it served him well enough to put up some great numbers. All very fair. I still think Campbell in his prime was as devastating an anyone. he gets sold short because there really isn't anyone comparablew to him-may be Brown, or Riggins come closest. And unfortunately Bum Phillips really did ride him until he ahd nothing left. And at the same time, he comes up less to his contemperaires with stuff that has less to do with football-Payton (through no fault of his) were slicker and more media-accessible, or like Harris(again, not his fault), part of a dynasty, he kinda gets lost in the shuffle. And sadly he is pretty beaten up from exactly the way he was used. Cannot fathom anyone saying they'd take Martin over Campbell. Throw out the stats; obey your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Cannot fathom anyone saying they'd take Martin over Campbell. Throw out the stats; obey your eyes Saw Campbell run at Shea. I take Campbell any day over Martin. One of the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 For 1 game, there's an endless amount of running backs I'd want over Curtis Martin (in his prime) Curtis was never an alltime great, never played like one at all. He was just 1 of the most dependable running backs in NFL history, but he was never close to being an alltimer. A pretty good, well above average running back, who did it longer than just about anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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