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This was buried in Kelly's GM thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

The Jets' Decline Is on the Line

By MICHAEL SALFINO

October 4, 2012, 8:26 p.m. ET

The performance of the Jets offensive line has reached new lows after a precipitous decline that began in 2011. Even worse, the former stars that led the unit to wide acclaim at the beginning of coach Rex Ryan's tenure are increasingly responsible for sinking it.

This year, the Jets' pass blocking ranks 22nd (of 32 teams) and its run blocking 31st, according to ProFootballFocus.com, which grades every play of each lineman based on his individual assignment, play result and game situation.

That run ranking this year is especially problematic considering Ryan's pledge to return his team to its ground-and-pound ways that led to consecutive appearances in the AFC championship game his first two seasons. In 2009, the Jets' run blocking ranked fifth, as did their pass blocking. In 2010, the line was even better, ranking fourth in run blocking and second when passing. But last year, the Jets ranked 12th in the former and 13th in the latter—middle-of-the-pack figures, much like their 8-8 season record.

The most obvious reason for the decline is personnel changes along the line, primarily the retirement of right tackle Damien Woody before the start of the 2011 season. ProFootballFocus graded his 2011 replacement, the since-departed Wayne Hunter, as one of the worst tackles in football. Austin Howard, this season's starter, hasn't fared much better.

But the Jets' two All-Pro linemen are performing nowhere near that level. Center Nick Mangold was graded the second-best center in the league in 2010 and 2011, but he ranks just 18th this year. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson has fallen even more, from a high of fourth in 2010 to 41st this year.

And in Ryan's first two seasons, even unheralded guard Brandon Moore was graded in the top 10 at his position. But now Moore is below average, too, ranking 38th among guards thus far this season.

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This was buried in Kelly's GM thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

The Jets' Decline Is on the Line

By MICHAEL SALFINO

October 4, 2012, 8:26 p.m. ET

The performance of the Jets offensive line has reached new lows after a precipitous decline that began in 2011. Even worse, the former stars that led the unit to wide acclaim at the beginning of coach Rex Ryan's tenure are increasingly responsible for sinking it.

This year, the Jets' pass blocking ranks 22nd (of 32 teams) and its run blocking 31st, according to ProFootballFocus.com, which grades every play of each lineman based on his individual assignment, play result and game situation.

That run ranking this year is especially problematic considering Ryan's pledge to return his team to its ground-and-pound ways that led to consecutive appearances in the AFC championship game his first two seasons. In 2009, the Jets' run blocking ranked fifth, as did their pass blocking. In 2010, the line was even better, ranking fourth in run blocking and second when passing. But last year, the Jets ranked 12th in the former and 13th in the latter—middle-of-the-pack figures, much like their 8-8 season record.

The most obvious reason for the decline is personnel changes along the line, primarily the retirement of right tackle Damien Woody before the start of the 2011 season. ProFootballFocus graded his 2011 replacement, the since-departed Wayne Hunter, as one of the worst tackles in football. Austin Howard, this season's starter, hasn't fared much better.

But the Jets' two All-Pro linemen are performing nowhere near that level. Center Nick Mangold was graded the second-best center in the league in 2010 and 2011, but he ranks just 18th this year. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson has fallen even more, from a high of fourth in 2010 to 41st this year.

And in Ryan's first two seasons, even unheralded guard Brandon Moore was graded in the top 10 at his position. But now Moore is below average, too, ranking 38th among guards thus far this season.

What this article is failing to note is that it's Sanchez's fault.

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The O-Line is WAY DOWN THE LIST of issues for the Jets.

Sanchez has time to throw, and Greene isn't getting tackled in the backfield.

Moving on......

BD

I disagree.

They get no push off the line at all, none.

And, yes, Sanchez has time to throw because they are keeping in extra blockers to help out on almost every play, which takes away the route runners.

Throw in the fact that Tebow is wasting a route, and Receivers cannot get off the line, and you have a big problem.

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I disagree.

They get no push off the line at all, none.

And, yes, Sanchez has time to throw because they are keeping in extra blockers to help out on almost every play, which takes away the route runners.

Throw in the fact that Tebow is wasting a route, and Receivers cannot get off the line, and you have a big problem.

What are you talking about?

The Jets aren't doing anything in the backfield any other O-line isn't doing. They're doing their job. Give them credit.

The Arizona Cardinals they are not.......

BD

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What are you talking about?

The Jets aren't doing anything in the backfield any other O-line isn't doing. They're doing their job. Give them credit.

The Arizona Cardinals they are not.......

BD

Credit for what?

I don't see anything to give them credit for.

Even Mangold has said that the Oline has been not playing well.

He said that they are out of sync as a unit.

The stats prove otherwise, that they are not doing their job.

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Credit for what?

I don't see anything to give them credit for.

Even Mangold has said that the Oline has been not playing well.

He said that they are out of sync as a unit.

The stats prove otherwise, that they are not doing their job.

They have a below-average QB and a below-average RB behind them. So they'll get credit for nothing, and like it!

BD

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To be completely fair guys, the Jets on offense are without their top 3 receiving threats. Kinda hard to prevent defenses from stacking 8+ in the box and blitzing 6+ every down when you're lining up Kerley, Schillens, and Cumberland as your primary receivers. Unless your QB is Tom Brady in his prime-esque good, your not going to be able to get the defense on its heels too much.

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go to NFL.com and check the sack stats, and QB hits, Mark is the 3rd most protected QB in the league right now. Very few QBs get hit as little as Mark Sanchez in 2012. If you want to bash the run blocking, there's probably a case for that but the pass blocking is excellent, much better than last years.

in general PFF blocking stats are based on incomplete assumptions. They don't know the play, the blocking scheme or really what is going on.

They assign sacks to Dbrick when Mark holds the ball for 8 seconds. they assign sacks to the wrong guy when the back or the tight end is supposed to take that "unblocked" man. I think PFF does a good job with skill position stats, it's easy to record something like a dropped pass.

but their OL stats are throwing darts. There's a reason why besides QB, OL are the smartest players on any NFL team, the assignments and schemes are the toughest to understand. People who don't know the assignments can't really assign blame.

Nick Mangold is the best player on offense and he has been for years. Jets fans who blame the OL, that's just avoiding the giant gaping Mark Sanchez problem. It's merely a flesh wound.

Edited by bitonti
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go to NFL.com and check the sack stats, and QB hits, Mark is the 3rd most protected QB in the league right now. Very few QBs get hit as little as Mark Sanchez in 2012. If you want to bash the run blocking, there's probably a case for that but the pass blocking is excellent, much better than last years.

in general PFF blocking stats are based on incomplete assumptions. They don't know the play, the blocking scheme or really what is going on.

They assign sacks to Dbrick when Mark holds the ball for 8 seconds. they assign sacks to the wrong guy when the back or the tight end is supposed to take that "unblocked" man. I think PFF does a good job with skill position stats, it's easy to record something like a dropped pass.

but their OL stats are throwing darts. There's a reason why besides QB, OL are the smartest players on any NFL team, the assignments and schemes are the toughest to understand. People who don't know the assignments can't really assign blame.

Nick Mangold is the best player on offense and he has been for years. Jets fans who blame the OL, that's just avoiding the giant gaping Mark Sanchez problem. It's merely a flesh wound.

I am so sick of arguing this point.

Offense is a system, it is not one guy.

The QB is the engine of the system, however there are so many other parts of the system as well.

To point all the blame on Mark for this is irrational hatred.

OR, if it truly is as much Mark as many Jets fans want to say, than Rex needs to be fired INSTANTLY for not going to Tebow, when the whole season is in front of us with a tie in first place.

He is watching the tape more than anyone. The owner wants to go to Tebow.

It's one or the other here guys, either the problem is Sanchez, which is also completely on Rex as HC, or maybe Rex is seeing that there are so many other problems which Jets fans who want Sanchez's head are just unwilling to see.

Rex, everyone's hero, disagrees with you guys.

Tebow was brought in for this situation, and if through 4 games the problem is all Mark, and Rex has not made the change in a huge conference monday night game, with most fans, media and the owner calling for Tebow, then he needs to be fired.

One or the other, cannot have it both ways.

Edited by JFtoLong
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The QB is the engine of the system, however there are so many other parts of the system as well.

To point all the blame on Mark for this is irrational hatred.

you said it yourself if you have a car and the engine is crap it doesn't matter how great the suspension is or how comfortable the seats are. the internal combustion engine IS the car.

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you said it yourself if you have a car and the engine is crap it doesn't matter how great the suspension is or how comfortable the seats are. the internal combustion engine IS the car.

Yeah but if the engine is serviceable and the battery is shot...Car still doesn't turn on. Other parts are needed in order for the operation to run smoothly, or even run at all. For starters, as I previously mentioned, being without your top 3 receivers hurts both the QB and the OL, thus also destroying the running game. All three of those unable to provide a spark, the defense, also without it's best player, is left on too long, acquires too many miles, and runs out of gas and needs replacement parts.

Edited by gangreenman
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you said it yourself if you have a car and the engine is crap it doesn't matter how great the suspension is or how comfortable the seats are. the internal combustion engine IS the car.

I don't think I said that, but to that analogy, if you have a decent engine, but a bad starter, and crap wheels, you will have a crap car.

Hell, take a great engine, put it in a car with bad breaks, bad wheels, and crap suspension and you will have a crap car.

Now, take a decent engine, put it in a car with great wheels, great suspension, you will have a pretty nice ride.

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Yeah but if the engine is serviceable and the battery is shot...Car still doesn't turn on. Other parts are needed in order for the operation to run smoothly, or even run at all. For starters, as I previously mentioned, being without your top 3 receivers hurts both the QB and the OL, thus also destroying the running game. All three of those unable to provide a spark, the defense, also without it's best player, is left on too long, acquires too many miles, and runs out of gas and needs replacement parts.

And lets not leave out the drunk driver! (rex) And the drunk passenger (Tony S)

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I don't think I said that, but to that analogy, if you have a decent engine, but a bad starter, and crap wheels, you will have a crap car.

Hell, take a great engine, put it in a car with bad breaks, bad wheels, and crap suspension and you will have a crap car.

Now, take a decent engine, put it in a car with great wheels, great suspension, you will have a pretty nice ride.

I would totally say "jinx" if not for the fact that I said it like 10 minutes before you.

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And lets not leave out the drunk driver! (rex) And the drunk passenger (Tony S)

I like Rex. I really think he is a great football coach, and will win at least one Super Bowl, if not with the Jets, then with someone else... Players love playing for him, he knows his x's and o's, and has shown that he is willing to adjust when things aren't working. Rex's biggest flaw IMO is that he is too loyal. He doesn't talk his players up and all that just to get more guys to like him, he does it because he really puts his full confidence in all of his players and trusts them to go on the field and prove him right. Its also why he kept Schotty on as his OC for probably 2 years too long...And why he is reluctant to take def. play calling away from Pettine.

He is the best coach the Jets have ever had since I've become a fan (including Parcells). He took a team, starting a rookie QB with little college playing experience to back to back AFCCG, as a wild card team, playing all of its games on the road. And did it for a franchise that had won 4 playoff games in the 11 year span leading up to him being hired. He's also admitted to being wrong on numerous occasions, has never thrown a player under the bus, and has stated publicly that he still has a lot to learn.

As badly as this season is going, firing Rex would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. Take that to the bank.

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I like Rex. I really think he is a great football coach, and will win at least one Super Bowl, if not with the Jets, then with someone else... Players love playing for him, he knows his x's and o's, and has shown that he is willing to adjust when things aren't working. Rex's biggest flaw IMO is that he is too loyal. He doesn't talk his players up and all that just to get more guys to like him, he does it because he really puts his full confidence in all of his players and trusts them to go on the field and prove him right. Its also why he kept Schotty on as his OC for probably 2 years too long...And why he is reluctant to take def. play calling away from Pettine.

He is the best coach the Jets have ever had since I've become a fan (including Parcells). He took a team, starting a rookie QB with little college playing experience to back to back AFCCG, as a wild card team, playing all of its games on the road. And did it for a franchise that had won 4 playoff games in the 11 year span leading up to him being hired. He's also admitted to being wrong on numerous occasions, has never thrown a player under the bus, and has stated publicly that he still has a lot to learn.

As badly as this season is going, firing Rex would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. Take that to the bank.

I disagree with much of your post.

Yes, he had a very good, albeit lucky, first two seasons.

That said, he made the most of the luck, without winning a SB, which I do give him credit for.

I think Rex has some potential to be a good coach, but I am very concerned that in year 4 he still does not get a few very fundamental things.

If they bring in a true GM, and completely strip personnel power from Rex and let him focus on coaching, I would not be upset if they give him a year or two to see what he is.

If they leave him in the role he is in now, which is setting the direction of the franchise, from strategy to personnel, I think it will be a huge failure that will end terribly and set us back 5 extra years.

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I disagree with much of your post.

Yes, he had a very good, albeit lucky, first two seasons.

That said, he made the most of the luck, without winning a SB, which I do give him credit for.

I think Rex has some potential to be a good coach, but I am very concerned that in year 4 he still does not get a few very fundamental things.

If they bring in a true GM, and completely strip personnel power from Rex and let him focus on coaching, I would not be upset if they give him a year or two to see what he is.

If they leave him in the role he is in now, which is setting the direction of the franchise, from strategy to personnel, I think it will be a huge failure that will end terribly and set us back 5 extra years.

Has he gotten lucky a few games? Yes. Who hasn't?

The point is, even in bad situations, he has always had the team in a position to get lucky. His first two years it worked out, and, as you said, he took advantage of it. Last year the ball bounced the opposite way a few too many times and we found ourselves at 8-8 and out of the postseason.

As for this year, who really can tell? When we were healthy (Week 1) we steamrolled a decent team in the Bills. We play in Pitt without Revis and Keller, and get beat bad... We go to Miami, without Keller...Lose Hill for the game, lose Revis for the season, have a bunch of other players dinged up, find a way to win an ugly one. We play SF at home minus Revis, Keller, Hill, and lose Holmes for the season... And get rocked.

Since Week 1 Sanchez has been under 50% completion in each of the last three games, the running game has sucked, the run d has been porous, and the team is extremely banged up.... Yet we're still 2-2 and control our own destiny. Just to compare, the packers have an elite talent QB, are relatively healthy, and are off to an 0-4 start.

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Now, take a decent engine, put it in a car with great wheels, great suspension, you will have a pretty nice ride.

I agree but wonder if the engine is decent or completely shot. What is decent mean? average? 50% completion is not average.

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I agree but wonder if the engine is decent or completely shot. What is decent mean? average? 50% completion is not average.

Yes, We all know the car is not decent or average. What this discussion is about is whether or not that is because the engine is dead, or the starter, suspension, and wheels are all damaged.

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Has he gotten lucky a few games? Yes. Who hasn't?

The point is, even in bad situations, he has always had the team in a position to get lucky. His first two years it worked out, and, as you said, he took advantage of it. Last year the ball bounced the opposite way a few too many times and we found ourselves at 8-8 and out of the postseason.

As for this year, who really can tell? When we were healthy (Week 1) we steamrolled a decent team in the Bills. We play in Pitt without Revis and Keller, and get beat bad... We go to Miami, without Keller...Lose Hill for the game, lose Revis for the season, have a bunch of other players dinged up, find a way to win an ugly one. We play SF at home minus Revis, Keller, Hill, and lose Holmes for the season... And get rocked.

Since Week 1 Sanchez has been under 50% completion in each of the last three games, the running game has sucked, the run d has been porous, and the team is extremely banged up.... Yet we're still 2-2 and control our own destiny. Just to compare, the packers have an elite talent QB, are relatively healthy, and are off to an 0-4 start.

My expectation of the season is that we are going to end up as a 5-6 win team.

For a team 2 years removed from the AFCC Game, that is a pretty drastic decline, with personnel that looks to be very un-competitve for the future as well, a ton of holes.

I think Rex's message is getting old. I think he is the kind of coach who can be a stick of dynamite, and be explosive at first but fizzle out without the ability to re-light.

If he finishes 8-8, or better, I will quiet down on my criticism.

If not, this is his hand picked team, coaching staff, and the direction he wanted to go in. You would really like to see your team be on the uphill slope, not the downhill, and certainly not a drastic downhill slope.

Edited by JFtoLong
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Going the the AFC Championship Game in back-to-back seasons is not luck

Unless you do not know the meaning of the word "luck"......

BD

I completely know the meaning of the word luck.

The team was 7-7 going into Indy and was Manning sitting away from being 7-8 and out of the playoffs.

I also think they caught Cincy at the right time, they were completely floundering at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

They caught some great breaks early on against SD as well.

I don't want to get too deep into this stuff, becasue the Giants won 2 SB's they had zero business winning.

But in 2010, they won at least 4 games they were just about dead in, and they got a gift in the Indy playoff game.

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Has he gotten lucky a few games? Yes. Who hasn't?

The point is, even in bad situations, he has always had the team in a position to get lucky. His first two years it worked out, and, as you said, he took advantage of it. Last year the ball bounced the opposite way a few too many times and we found ourselves at 8-8 and out of the postseason.

As for this year, who really can tell? When we were healthy (Week 1) we steamrolled a decent team in the Bills. We play in Pitt without Revis and Keller, and get beat bad... We go to Miami, without Keller...Lose Hill for the game, lose Revis for the season, have a bunch of other players dinged up, find a way to win an ugly one. We play SF at home minus Revis, Keller, Hill, and lose Holmes for the season... And get rocked.

Since Week 1 Sanchez has been under 50% completion in each of the last three games, the running game has sucked, the run d has been porous, and the team is extremely banged up.... Yet we're still 2-2 and control our own destiny. Just to compare, the packers have an elite talent QB, are relatively healthy, and are off to an 0-4 start.

the packers are 2-2. i think you meant the saints
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I completely know the meaning of the word luck.

The team was 7-7 going into Indy and was Manning sitting away from being 7-8 and out of the playoffs.

I also think they caught Cincy at the right time, they were completely floundering at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

They caught some great breaks early on against SD as well.

I don't want to get too deep into this stuff, becasue the Giants won 2 SB's they had zero business winning.

But in 2010, they won at least 4 games they were just about dead in, and they got a gift in the Indy playoff game.

You can't defend that point well, which you just proved.

They beat Peyton Manning and Tom Lady, in their buildings, back-to-back, by luck?

Moving on......

BD

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You can't defend that point well, which you just proved.

They beat Peyton Manning and Tom Lady, in their buildings, back-to-back, by luck?

Moving on......

BD

Yeah, I think its time to move on....

Rexy gets credit, yet Sanchez gets none.

It's completely illogical.

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go to NFL.com and check the sack stats, and QB hits, Mark is the 3rd most protected QB in the league right now. Very few QBs get hit as little as Mark Sanchez in 2012. If you want to bash the run blocking, there's probably a case for that but the pass blocking is excellent, much better than last years.

in general PFF blocking stats are based on incomplete assumptions. They don't know the play, the blocking scheme or really what is going on.

They assign sacks to Dbrick when Mark holds the ball for 8 seconds. they assign sacks to the wrong guy when the back or the tight end is supposed to take that "unblocked" man. I think PFF does a good job with skill position stats, it's easy to record something like a dropped pass.

but their OL stats are throwing darts. There's a reason why besides QB, OL are the smartest players on any NFL team, the assignments and schemes are the toughest to understand. People who don't know the assignments can't really assign blame.

Nick Mangold is the best player on offense and he has been for years. Jets fans who blame the OL, that's just avoiding the giant gaping Mark Sanchez problem. It's merely a flesh wound.

Our best player on offense is the center. Awesome.

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This was buried in Kelly's GM thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

The Jets' Decline Is on the Line

By MICHAEL SALFINO

October 4, 2012, 8:26 p.m. ET

The performance of the Jets offensive line has reached new lows after a precipitous decline that began in 2011. Even worse, the former stars that led the unit to wide acclaim at the beginning of coach Rex Ryan's tenure are increasingly responsible for sinking it.

This year, the Jets' pass blocking ranks 22nd (of 32 teams) and its run blocking 31st, according to ProFootballFocus.com, which grades every play of each lineman based on his individual assignment, play result and game situation.

That run ranking this year is especially problematic considering Ryan's pledge to return his team to its ground-and-pound ways that led to consecutive appearances in the AFC championship game his first two seasons. In 2009, the Jets' run blocking ranked fifth, as did their pass blocking. In 2010, the line was even better, ranking fourth in run blocking and second when passing. But last year, the Jets ranked 12th in the former and 13th in the latter—middle-of-the-pack figures, much like their 8-8 season record.

The most obvious reason for the decline is personnel changes along the line, primarily the retirement of right tackle Damien Woody before the start of the 2011 season. ProFootballFocus graded his 2011 replacement, the since-departed Wayne Hunter, as one of the worst tackles in football. Austin Howard, this season's starter, hasn't fared much better.

But the Jets' two All-Pro linemen are performing nowhere near that level. Center Nick Mangold was graded the second-best center in the league in 2010 and 2011, but he ranks just 18th this year. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson has fallen even more, from a high of fourth in 2010 to 41st this year.

And in Ryan's first two seasons, even unheralded guard Brandon Moore was graded in the top 10 at his position. But now Moore is below average, too, ranking 38th among guards thus far this season.

Not to seem like a flip flopper here, I still think that Sanchez accuracy issue is very apparent and I feel like to some degree he has to be able to carry the team, however, This thread here is something that I've been trying to get across to "sanchez haters" for the past couple years. Every position around Sanchez seems to be decaying, mixed with the fact that the defense is not good anymore.

Sanchez is a problem, but the team overall is a much bigger one.

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