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NFL Defensive Rookie of the Month for September


Joewillie2012
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Four of the six teams directly in front of the Pats passed on Jones and picked other pass-rushers. Go look at the snap progression of Aldon Smith and you'll get an idea of how you ease in a rookie who has players in front of him. Better yet, go look at Devin McCourty who everyone had a hard-on for after his rookie year, pissing and moaning about why we didn't pick him, then take a peak at his second year.

It's been 4 games, try better champ.

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Four of the six teams directly in front of the Pats passed on Jones and picked other pass-rushers. Go look at the snap progression of Aldon Smith and you'll get an idea of how you ease in a rookie who has players in front of him. Better yet, go look at Devin McCourty who everyone had a hard-on for after his rookie year, pissing and moaning about why we didn't pick him, then take a peak at his second year.

It's been 4 games, try better champ.

why should we care what other teams did after us ? Does that make us any less stupid or incompetent in the draft just because some other teams suffer from the same ? Coples and Wilkerson are going to be ordinary in a 3-4 defense unless the Jets can get some serious OLB's that can rush the passer even then you dont spend that high a draft pick on DL unless your running a 4-3.

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why should we care what other teams did after us ? Does that make us any less stupid or incompetent in the draft just because some other teams suffer from the same ? Coples and Wilkerson are going to be ordinary in a 3-4 defense unless the Jets can get some serious OLB's that can rush the passer even then you dont spend that high a draft pick on DL unless your running a 4-3.

Coples and Wilkerson's effectiveness in the 34 is not tied to how poor our linebackers are, our team's defense is tied to them. Coples had been solid in limited snaps and the idiotic notion that you start evaluating a player through only four weeks of his rookie season is just that, idiotic. It's the same reason why everyone waited to judge Aldon Smith until the end of the season, as opposed to his first half dozen weeks. You guys are just so incredibly inpatient.

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Coples and Wilkerson's effectiveness in the 34 is not tied to how poor our linebackers are, our team's defense is tied to them. Coples had been solid in limited snaps and the idiotic notion that you start evaluating a player through only four weeks of his rookie season is just that, idiotic. It's the same reason why everyone waited to judge Aldon Smith until the end of the season, as opposed to his first half dozen weeks. You guys are just so incredibly inpatient.

Did I give an evaluation of Coples ? If you dont think a good OLB has a strong effect on a DE in the 3-4 then maybe you should look at the 86 Giants and see what kind of an effect LT had on Leonard Marshall . Taylor Drawing double and sometimes Triple teams certainly had a huge effect on Marshall and its the main reason the guy was near double digit sacks most of his career.

in the 3-4 you very rarely see DL making big plays and at best you see good players getting somewhere in the 3-5 sack range. The LB's make the plays . We had plenty of depth on our DL and my gripe is not with the players but with the picks themselves. The Jets had enough occupiers and what they should have been drafting the last 2 years to replace old men like PAce and Thomas were OLB's with good speed capable of rushing the passer. Not 290 Pound slow DE's . Now if you want to run a front 4 in a 4-3 defense then you draft a Coples or a Wilkerson to play DT and draft pure DE's that weigh around 250-270 that have speed and quickness off the ball.

What the Jets have done the past 2 years is stupid...... that does not mean Im bashing Wilkerson Or Coples talent it means Im saying they dont fit our scheme at all for such high picks.

Now if the Jets go out and draft DE's in the next draft they ****ing better be running a 4-3 if they draft OLB then they run the 3-4 with Ellis Coples and Wilk as the future on the DL which IMO is an ass backwards way of doing it.

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Jones has 4 sacks as a Junior. 4 sacks as a Senior.

Coples had 10.5 sacks as a Junior. 7.5 sacks as a Senior. Plus over 40 TFL in his career at NC

EVERYONE had Coples being more talented, but the problem is the defensive schemes they are both joining.

The Pats tell Jones "Line up at end, and go get the QB". He's the only pass rusher they have, and they make it as simple for him as possible. They don't have a complicated scheme, and really don't care about defense.

Coples has walked into a maze of defenses he has to learn. Rex is trying to outsmart the defense on every play, and they're overloaded Coples with positions on the line, formations, and reads. He's spending more time learning plays than he is chasing QBs and RBs

What's holding Coples back is the Jets defense......

BD

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Yeah, Baltimore was like totally stupid for drafting Haloti Ngata higher than we drafted Coples. If they were a well run franchise they would have taken Kamerion Wimbley for the identical defense the Jets run. What morons.

Packers had no business drafting BJ Raji at #9 when the draft's top pass rusher, Aaron Maybin, was still on the board for the Bills to steal at #11.

Richard Seymour was an equally idiotic pick for the Pats at #6 overall. Boy, did they regret that move! Surely they should have gone for one of the 2 top-ranked pass rushers on the board, Andre Carter or Jamal Reynolds. And they repeated that mistake a few years later by taking Ty Warren #13 (also higher than we drafted Coples) over Michael Haynes and Jerome McDougal. Then they tripled-down on that stupid strategy by taking Vince Wilfat at #21 a year after that. Jason Babin was the right move, as he was the one who paid immediate dividends by bouncing around to 5 different teams before he became anything.

Casey Hampton has been a fixture on Pittsburgh's 3-4 DL for over a decade, spending like every other year in the pro bowl despite being a 1-dimensional run-stopper who doesn't have 10 career sacks to this very day. What a bunch of know-nothing clowns taking him around the middle of round 1.

If only we could learn from the stupidity of the Patriots and Packers and Ravens and Steelers, who have no idea how to successfully run a franchise, by following Smashmouth's universally accepted draft rules for teams that run a 3-4 base defense.

There's plenty to criticize about the Jets without making up some silly "rule for running a successful team" from out of nowhere to retro-fit your Jets criticism of the day. Hater. ;)

Settle down Sperm I made those comparisions (with Seymour, Nagta ....) and for your information those teams did not draft 3 defensive linemen in 2 consecutive drafts with their top 3 picks. I also stated in previous posts drafting a stud for a 3-4 line is fine especially if hes a NT . So if the Jets would have drafted a guy like those you mentioned I would have been totally fine with that move, but they didint, each and every Defensive lineman they drafted came attached with some type of Issue. Actully lately it seems every player the Jets Draft seems to have some type of Issue and we keep hearing the word Project. TBH Im sick of the ****ing projects on a coaching staff that cant seem to develop players to save their lives.

Also when you make the comparision of the Patriots and Seymour and Ty Warren a few years later you forget the fact that the Pats in the early 2000's were pretty stacked at LB so Drafting Seymour who was a beast then drafting TyWarren a few years later was in no way the same as drafting 3 guys like the Jets did in 2 consecutive drafts while our LB's grew old and slow and our pass rush was non existent. You do NOT generate pass rush from defensive linemen in the 3-4, sometimes you get lucky, but for the most part all your getting out of a really good lineman in the 3-4 is about 4 - 5 sacks. When you look at guys like Richard Seymour they usually get 4-5 sacks a year and I think Seymour had 1 or 2 years in his entire career with 8 sacks that does not mean hes a middle of the road player, because hes much better than that, but hes not the kind of guy you would want to draft if your pass rush is suffering in a 3-4 defense if your solely looking to generate pass rush like the Jets have been for more than a few years now. Why was Leonard Marshall so good for the Giants and reached Double Digit Sacks ?? Because in his 2 All Pro Years (85 - 86) he happened to be occupying blockers who didnt exist since Lawrence Taylor was getting double and triple teamed. Not many lineman if any at all are going to up your sacks in a 3-4 defense and thats pretty much common knowledge. LB's DO

So once again drafting one guy to play DL in the 3-4 with a high pick depends on a few things. Drafting 3 in a row ? Is moronic especially if ALL Three come with issues and project attached to them and your team is desparate need of passrushers. Only one that seemed to not have project attached was probably Wilkerson, but I promise you do not expect a pass rush to erupt overnight because of Wilk, its not happening. Also when a guy like Coples starts to realize hes going to be nothing more than an occupier or part timer when we run the 4-3 and wont be lighting it up with sacks like he might in a consistent 4-3 running fancy stunts and getting after the QB lets see how that questionable motor starts to do at that stage . Im not a hater at all I hope all these guys we draft turn out great but Im confident in Our System they will not generate the sacks we need. So call me a Realist not a Hater ;)

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Settle down Sperm I made those comparisions (with Seymour, Nagta ....) and for your information those teams did not draft 3 defensive linemen in 2 consecutive drafts with their top 3 picks. I also stated in previous posts drafting a stud for a 3-4 line is fine especially if hes a NT . So if the Jets would have drafted a guy like those you mentioned I would have been totally fine with that move, but they didint, each and every Defensive lineman they drafted came attached with some type of Issue. Actully lately it seems every player the Jets Draft seems to have some type of Issue and we keep hearing the word Project. TBH Im sick of the ****ing projects on a coaching staff that cant seem to develop players to save their lives.

Also when you make the comparision of the Patriots and Seymour and Ty Warren a few years later you forget the fact that the Pats in the early 2000's were pretty stacked at LB so Drafting Seymour who was a beast then drafting TyWarren a few years later was in no way the same as drafting 3 guys like the Jets did in 2 consecutive drafts while our LB's grew old and slow and our pass rush was non existent. You do NOT generate pass rush from defensive linemen in the 3-4, sometimes you get lucky, but for the most part all your getting out of a really good lineman in the 3-4 is about 4 - 5 sacks. When you look at guys like Richard Seymour they usually get 4-5 sacks a year and I think Seymour had 1 or 2 years in his entire career with 8 sacks that does not mean hes a middle of the road player, because hes much better than that, but hes not the kind of guy you would want to draft if your pass rush is suffering in a 3-4 defense if your solely looking to generate pass rush like the Jets have been for more than a few years now. Why was Leonard Marshall so good for the Giants and reached Double Digit Sacks ?? Because in his 2 All Pro Years (85 - 86) he happened to be occupying blockers who didnt exist since Lawrence Taylor was getting double and triple teamed. Not many lineman if any at all are going to up your sacks in a 3-4 defense and thats pretty much common knowledge. LB's DO

So once again drafting one guy to play DL in the 3-4 with a high pick depends on a few things. Drafting 3 in a row ? Is moronic especially if ALL Three come with issues and project attached to them and your team is desparate need of passrushers. Only one that seemed to not have project attached was probably Wilkerson, but I promise you do not expect a pass rush to erupt overnight because of Wilk, its not happening. Also when a guy like Coples starts to realize hes going to be nothing more than an occupier or part timer when we run the 4-3 and wont be lighting it up with sacks like he might in a consistent 4-3 running fancy stunts and getting after the QB lets see how that questionable motor starts to do at that stage . Im not a hater at all I hope all these guys we draft turn out great but Im confident in Our System they will not generate the sacks we need. So call me a Realist not a Hater ;)

Translation: drafting of front 7 must be done in a certain order. No one has ever suggested this ever until just now because it is the Jets who went in one direction instead of another. Had it been the other way around, and our defense still wasn't anything to be gaga about, then you'd come in with the opposite opinion. Something like, "every good team shores up the DL for every down before trying to hit a home run on a 4-3 DE who has to switch positions in the pros, to be of use on passing downs only until he learns how to cover for the first time in his life.

So whatever "process" you've invented as some type of rule ultimately is because the Jets' picks didn't pan out as well not because of what position they went after.

The translation is the same: everything the Jets do, compared to the rest of the NFL, is stupid because it's what the Jets did. The only thing they've done right is drafting Mark Sanchez, but they screwed up his development through little or no fault of Sanchez himself.

Clearly the only thing you like about the Jets, past or present, is the original drafting of Mark Sanchez.

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Translation: drafting of front 7 must be done in a certain order. No one has ever suggested this ever until just now because it is the Jets who went in one direction instead of another. Had it been the other way around, and our defense still wasn't anything to be gaga about, then you'd come in with the opposite opinion. Something like, "every good team shores up the DL for every down before trying to hit a home run on a 4-3 DE who has to switch positions in the pros, to be of use on passing downs only until he learns how to cover for the first time in his life.

So whatever "process" you've invented as some type of rule ultimately is because the Jets' picks didn't pan out as well not because of what position they went after.

The translation is the same: everything the Jets do, compared to the rest of the NFL, is stupid because it's what the Jets did. The only thing they've done right is drafting Mark Sanchez, but they screwed up his development through little or no fault of Sanchez himself.

Clearly the only thing you like about the Jets, past or present, is the original drafting of Mark Sanchez.

No sorry I would not change to suit an arguement > You can't seem to understand the very basic premise of what Im saying.

The problem I have is spending 3 top picks, all on the defensive line, 2 consecutive years when your defensive line was already one of the best units depth wise on the team and other areas of the team are full of holes. You draft the best athelete available in most cases but you cant draft the same position with your first few picks every year. Now your dragging Mark Sanchez into the arguement and Im starting to feel like your just posting jibberish for the sake of arguement. You dont even seem to understand my stance on Mark Sanchez. I know hes playing bad but I also know hes got absolutely nothing in place to be successfull with if you think he does or you think another QB could win with this bunch your dreaming. You take one side of the arguement I take the other, let it rest already.

I had no problem at all with the way Mangini drafted or the way we drafted in the past. You seem to be on this kick that Im aganist everything the Jets do and its getting ridiculous TBH. Everyone seems to know the weaknesses of this team EXCEPT the organization itself. They have all but ignored the offensive skill positions and the LB position and its painfully obvious. If you cant recognize this or you have a different opinion thats fine but dont pretend that you know where Im coming from or think I disagree with the Jets just for the sake of doing so.

When it comes to Wilk and Coples they are either DE's in the 3-4 or DT's in the 4-3. personally I think they would excell as DT's in the 4-3, once again thats my opinion from what Ive seen of their play. I think getting some smaller fast DE's to complement them in a 4-3 would be ideal. If thats not the case and you want to run a 3-4 then they play DE and do their job as occupiers and Jets fans will have to deal with 3-5 sack years from both players (thats best case scenario) and we will need to draft True OLB's, not project's, not converted DE's, but REAL LB's. Thats pretty much it. Half assing it like the Jets have been doing thinking Rex can coach em up has caught up to this team. Other teams have caught up to his schemes and he does not have the HOFers like he did on the Ravens to bail his fat ass out. Either we get some real players in here and send clowns like Maybin Packing or we continue to go in the toilet further.

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While Sperm is easily killing them on this one Jay, I am getting very worried about this 2012 draft. It's been a long time since these guys were picked and still they're too terrible to even see the field consistently.

I don't fault the players, though it's pretty obvious by now they'll never make an impact. I fault Mr. Glass Half Full Tannenbum for saddling this franchise with guys who hold the Sanchize back.

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No sorry I would not change to suit an arguement > You can't seem to understand the very basic premise of what Im saying.

The problem I have is spending 3 top picks, all on the defensive line, 2 consecutive years when your defensive line was already one of the best units depth wise on the team and other areas of the team are full of holes. You draft the best athelete available in most cases but you cant draft the same position with your first few picks every year. Now your dragging Mark Sanchez into the arguement and Im starting to feel like your just posting jibberish for the sake of arguement. You dont even seem to understand my stance on Mark Sanchez. I know hes playing bad but I also know hes got absolutely nothing in place to be successfull with if you think he does or you think another QB could win with this bunch your dreaming. You take one side of the arguement I take the other, let it rest already.

I had no problem at all with the way Mangini drafted or the way we drafted in the past. You seem to be on this kick that Im aganist everything the Jets do and its getting ridiculous TBH. Everyone seems to know the weaknesses of this team EXCEPT the organization itself. They have all but ignored the offensive skill positions and the LB position and its painfully obvious. If you cant recognize this or you have a different opinion thats fine but dont pretend that you know where Im coming from or think I disagree with the Jets just for the sake of doing so.

When it comes to Wilk and Coples they are either DE's in the 3-4 or DT's in the 4-3. personally I think they would excell as DT's in the 4-3, once again thats my opinion from what Ive seen of their play. I think getting some smaller fast DE's to complement them in a 4-3 would be ideal. If thats not the case and you want to run a 3-4 then they play DE and do their job as occupiers and Jets fans will have to deal with 3-5 sack years from both players (thats best case scenario) and we will need to draft True OLB's, not project's, not converted DE's, but REAL LB's. Thats pretty much it. Half assing it like the Jets have been doing thinking Rex can coach em up has caught up to this team. Other teams have caught up to his schemes and he does not have the HOFers like he did on the Ravens to bail his fat ass out. Either we get some real players in here and send clowns like Maybin Packing or we continue to go in the toilet further.

No, you are just wrong. You're using present production from 2 specific players and are using that to come up with some universal rule that should always be followed based on positions rather than the players.

NE drafted DL for their 3-4 defense with their first pick 3 out of 4 years. Two of those three picks were higher picks than Coples and all 3 were higher picks than Wilkerson.

I'm not using NE as an example because I think this is a model for success. Rather, I'm using it to show that there is no silly universal rule about avoiding defensive linemen in round 1 because they use a 3-man line. One could even argue that because you only have 3 men on the line, the talent level of all 3 is that much more important.

And Haloti Ngata doesn't play NT no matter how many people incorrectly type it. He plays DE in their 3-4. Because of his size he can slide over to NT if their NT is hurt (and has done that) but he is not their NT.

I get why they did it. 3-4 OLB pass rushers are hit and miss. Further, this is a passing league now. So Rex - for better or worse - wants to be able to get some pressure on the QB from their front 3 (in less than 5-7 seconds) while dropping 7-8 guys into coverage. Coples is big enough to be a good run stopper and has pass-rushing skills that few 3-4 DLmen possess, or such is the intent of the pick anyway. Now you may not like it, but there is absolutely no obvious "do not do" thing with taking DLinemen in round 1 when you run a 3-4, including 2 years in a row.

In the end, I think you have a problem with drafting Coples because he hasn't set the world on fire in his first bunch of games. But in the end, whether or not the pick pans out is more a function of how good he becomes rather than what position he plays.

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No, you are just wrong. You're using present production from 2 specific players and are using that to come up with some universal rule that should always be followed based on positions rather than the players.

NE drafted DL for their 3-4 defense with their first pick 3 out of 4 years. Two of those three picks were higher picks than Coples and all 3 were higher picks than Wilkerson.

I'm not using NE as an example because I think this is a model for success. Rather, I'm using it to show that there is no silly universal rule about avoiding defensive linemen in round 1 because they use a 3-man line. One could even argue that because you only have 3 men on the line, the talent level of all 3 is that much more important.

And Haloti Ngata doesn't play NT no matter how many people incorrectly type it. He plays DE in their 3-4. Because of his size he can slide over to NT if their NT is hurt (and has done that) but he is not their NT.

I get why they did it. 3-4 OLB pass rushers are hit and miss. Further, this is a passing league now. So Rex - for better or worse - wants to be able to get some pressure on the QB in less than 5 seconds while dropping 7-8 guys into coverage. Now you may not like it, but there is absolutely no obvious "do not do" thing with taking DLinemen in round 1 when you run a 3-4, including 2 years in a row.

In the end, I think you have a problem with drafting Coples because he hasn't set the world on fire in his first bunch of games. But in the end, whether or not the pick pans out is more a function of how good he becomes rather than what position he plays.

Number 1 Im not coming up with a universal rule Im saying it was dumb to draft 3 defensive lineman on a team that needed help in other areas rather than the one with the most depth on the team.

Number 2 I dont need you thinking for me and Im not playing monday morning QB with Coples I was not happy about the pick when we made it but Im hopeful the kid will turn out ok. You seem to be under the impression that Im saying all this now because Coples has not contributed much yet but thats not the case as I explained above. next thing you will be claiming is that I said Coples was a bust I guess. Since your thinking for me you might as well go for it

Number 3 The Pats drafted Seymour as the 6th overall pick he was projected to be a great player you dont pass that up. Then 2 Years later they drafted Ty Warren and the next year They drafted Wilfork because they had a need at NT AND through all of that They already had LB's in place and the defense never missed a beat. Thats a lot differnt than what we did in drafting 3 defensive lineman with your 3 top picks in 2 consecutive years at the position where you have the most depth on the football team and your LB's are already old and slow . If the Pats in that same time frame would have drafted 3 Linebackers in 2 successive years with their 3 top picks it would have been equaly stupid since they had solid depth at the position so no matter how much you want to argue this fantasy that Im trying to say "this is how you do it" you can stop now because thats not what Im trying to do no matter how hard you try and convince yourself.

Hope that clears it up for you. Oh and hey you forgot to mention that Sanchez sucks in your last post your slippin my man ;)

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Number 1 Im not coming up with a universal rule Im saying it was dumb to draft 3 defensive lineman on a team that needed help in other areas rather than the one with the most depth on the team.

Number 2 I dont need you thinking for me and Im not playing monday morning QB with Coples I was not happy about the pick when we made it but Im hopeful the kid will turn out ok. You seem to be under the impression that Im saying all this now because Coples has not contributed much yet but thats not the case as I explained above. next thing you will be claiming is that I said Coples was a bust I guess. Since your thinking for me you might as well go for it

Number 3 The Pats drafted Seymour as the 6th overall pick he was projected to be a great player you dont pass that up. Then 2 Years later they drafted Ty Warren and the next year They drafted Wilfork because they had a need at NT AND through all of that They already had LB's in place and the defense never missed a beat. Thats a lot differnt than what we did in drafting 3 defensive lineman with your 3 top picks in 2 consecutive years at the position where you have the most depth on the football team and your LB's are already old and slow . If the Pats in that same time frame would have drafted 3 Linebackers in 2 successive years with their 3 top picks it would have been equaly stupid since they had solid depth at the position so no matter how much you want to argue this fantasy that Im trying to say "this is how you do it" you can stop now because thats not what Im trying to do no matter how hard you try and convince yourself.

Hope that clears it up for you. Oh and hey you forgot to mention that Sanchez sucks in your last post your slippin my man ;)

No, you made a blanket statement that teams who employ 3-men DLs shouldn't draft those players in round 1. And that it would be a dumb move even if we had a good pass-rushing OLB or two:

Coples and Wilkerson are going to be ordinary in a 3-4 defense unless the Jets can get some serious OLB's that can rush the passer even then you dont spend that high a draft pick on DL unless your running a 4-3.

I read it as a type of blanket rule, and I find it difficult to believe anyone could read this and think you meant anything otherwise.

You try to draft good players with your top picks. Not the best players only from a certain narrow category of positions. I've heard plenty more people say you don't draft draft a guard that early than not drafting DLmen if you run a 3-4 defense. Actually you're the first one I've ever heard make this "rule" ever.

I hope Coples becomes a real player and a force for the team. But if he isn't it won't be because he's a DE on our 3-man line.

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No, you made a blanket statement that teams who employ 3-men DLs shouldn't draft those players in round 1. And that it would be a dumb move even if we had a good pass-rushing OLB or two:

I read it as a type of blanket rule, and I find it difficult to believe anyone could read this and think you meant anything otherwise.

You try to draft good players with your top picks. Not the best players only from a certain narrow category of positions. I've heard plenty more people say you don't draft draft a guard that early than not drafting DLmen if you run a 3-4 defense. Actually you're the first one I've ever heard make this "rule" ever.

I hope Coples becomes a real player and a force for the team. But if he isn't it won't be because he's a DE on our 3-man line.

NO I said its fine to draft players for the DL but not to the extent we took it drafting 3 in a row with our top picks in sucessive drafts. I also said the Keys to a good 3-4 drefense are the LB's and the keys to a good 4-3 defense are the DL. When your team is weak at LB and you run a 3-4 and your team is solid at DL with good depth why would you draft 3 defensive lineman like we did ? Also some would assume we were going with w 4-3 along with the hiring of Dunbar who specializes in the 4-3 but we didnt. Why ?? Just answer those simple questions. Now, the case you need a NT which is the most Imprtant part of a solid 3-4 DL Im fine with using a top pick but I simply do not agree with spending high picks on DE's in the 3-4 due to the nature of the position and thats the exact opposite in the 4-3.

Those are hardly blanket statements and the questions are more suited to what the Jets did rather than me coming up with some golden rule like you suggest.

All that being said I feel each type of defense shoul have a prioroty in drafting the Key to their defense. 3-4 - Linebackers 4-3 Lineman once again thats not a blanket statement based on particular team needs but its pretty obvious what makes both defensive styles tick. I use the Giants of the 80's as my prime example because they were the most dominant 3-4 defense of their time maybe of all time. Not a bad pattern to follow right ??

The Jets in the early 80's late 70's ran a 4-3 Walt Micheals was the HC how did he pattern his picks ? Klecko Gastineau Lyons ? All very close in draft years building one of the best DL's ever . Not a bad pattern to follow right ?

No matter how much you argue it Even Belichick had a solid amount of LB's already in place and he still did not go to the extent we did in his 3-4 Defense. He drafted 1 DE then 2 years later grabbed another then he had a need for a BT cause his current one was getting old and he grabbed Wilfork. Nothing wrong with that at all plus didnt he have multiple early picks ?? Im not sure but I remember a few years He had a large amount of early picks 1ts and second round.

Now if your fine with us drafting 3 defensive lineman like we did with glaring weaknesses at the LB's position in a 3-4 defense then thats fine and we can once again agree to disagree. But it seems like rather than taking the logical approach your just argueing with me for the sake of arguement. If you misunderstood me OR if I was not clear in my post then Im sorry but I hope this clears it up. So disregard what you read and go by what I wrote above because I very well may not have been clear in my discription in previous posts.

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NO I said its fine to draft players for the DL but not to the extent we took it drafting 3 in a row with our top picks in sucessive drafts. I also said the Keys to a good 3-4 drefense are the LB's and the keys to a good 4-3 defense are the DL. When your team is weak at LB and you run a 3-4 and your team is solid at DL with good depth why would you draft 3 defensive lineman like we did ? Also some would assume we were going with w 4-3 along with the hiring of Dunbar who specializes in the 4-3 but we didnt. Why ?? Just answer those simple questions. Now, the case you need a NT which is the most Imprtant part of a solid 3-4 DL Im fine with using a top pick but I simply do not agree with spending high picks on DE's in the 3-4 due to the nature of the position and thats the exact opposite in the 4-3.

Those are hardly blanket statements and the questions are more suited to what the Jets did rather than me coming up with some golden rule like you suggest.

All that being said I feel each type of defense shoul have a prioroty in drafting the Key to their defense. 3-4 - Linebackers 4-3 Lineman once again thats not a blanket statement based on particular team needs but its pretty obvious what makes both defensive styles tick. I use the Giants of the 80's as my prime example because they were the most dominant 3-4 defense of their time maybe of all time. Not a bad pattern to follow right ??

The Jets in the early 80's late 70's ran a 4-3 Walt Micheals was the HC how did he pattern his picks ? Klecko Gastineau Lyons ? All very close in draft years building one of the best DL's ever . Not a bad pattern to follow right ?

No matter how much you argue it Even Belichick had a solid amount of LB's already in place and he still did not go to the extent we did in his 3-4 Defense. He drafted 1 DE then 2 years later grabbed another then he had a need for a BT cause his current one was getting old and he grabbed Wilfork. Nothing wrong with that at all plus didnt he have multiple early picks ?? Im not sure but I remember a few years He had a large amount of early picks 1ts and second round.

Now if your fine with us drafting 3 defensive lineman like we did with glaring weaknesses at the LB's position in a 3-4 defense then thats fine and we can once again agree to disagree. But it seems like rather than taking the logical approach your just argueing with me for the sake of arguement. If you misunderstood me OR if I was not clear in my post then Im sorry but I hope this clears it up. So disregard what you read and go by what I wrote above because I very well may not have been clear in my discription in previous posts.

Just say what you meant: I am critical of everything the Jets do because they have frustrated me into believing a different franchise would have turned Mark Sanchez into a damn good - if not great - QB.

You are twisting in the wind to undo what you clearly stated. Now you're all over the place to clarify that you didn't mean what you meant, or that it depends on what my definition of is is, since the Jets used their top pick on their DL twice in a row, not 3x. If they go DL in the 2013 draft, then you will see me agree with you. But so far I do not.

They felt there was value with the Coples pick and you do not. Everyone knew he was a top 5 talent and we took him at #16. Whether he becomes a player who utilizes that top 5 talent remains to be seen. If he does, then he was a steal and a great pick. If not, then they should have thought what a dozen teams before them did: he's lazy and will rely on his immense talent to stick around the league for a while but will never become the player he could have been.

Harris was locked in here through 2013, and they knew Pace (and Scott) were locked in for 2012. They felt they could add some more speed at LB later, and did with Davis. I'm sure they also entertained the possibility of one of the premiere pass rushers dropping to round 2 as they sometimes do and getting a top 25 OLB/DE 'tweener prospect in the 40s. They also seem to have felt Maybin was going to make a significant leap forward he clearly hasn't. Had that planning worked out, the team would have needed to take an OLB next year when Pace's cap number dictates that cutting him outweighs the benefit of keeping him.

The problem is more in their assessment of the talent they had rather than in drafting strategy. Teams have ruined franchises for years chasing after the missing piece in the draft instead of taking the best value with the best chance of doing in the pros what he did in college. Again, this is where they felt the best value was when their pick came up as Rex (for better or worse) clearly felt that their front 3 should be able to generate some pressure independent of the LBers and we know they haven't been able to without 6-second long coverage sacks.

We'll see what he turns into. I wasn't riding Coples's dick all offseason and praying he would fall to the Jets. But taking a college DE and converting him to OLB who has to do more than beat his man from a 3-point stance, including drop into coverage and stick with today's generation of athletic TEs, will have a pretty high bust factor. You're saying we should roll the dice on a college DE and then telling him he will now play a different one than the one that made him a top prospect in the first place. That strategy is only smart if the player works out with the benefit of hindsight.

You're getting all frustrated over an award Erik Coleman once won for us.

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Just say what you meant: I am critical of everything the Jets do because they have frustrated me into believing a different franchise would have turned Mark Sanchez into a damn good - if not great - QB.

You are twisting in the wind to undo what you clearly stated. Now you're all over the place to clarify that you didn't mean what you meant, or that it depends on what my definition of is is, since the Jets used their top pick on their DL twice in a row, not 3x. If they go DL in the 2013 draft, then you will see me agree with you. But so far I do not.

They felt there was value with the Coples pick and you do not. Everyone knew he was a top 5 talent and we took him at #16. Whether he becomes a player who utilizes that top 5 talent remains to be seen. If he does, then he was a steal and a great pick. If not, then they should have thought what a dozen teams before them did: he's lazy and will rely on his immense talent to stick around the league for a while but will never become the player he could have been.

Harris was locked in here through 2013, and they knew Pace (and Scott) were locked in for 2012. They felt they could add some more speed at LB later, and did with Davis. I'm sure they also entertained the possibility of one of the premiere pass rushers dropping to round 2 as they sometimes do and getting a top 25 OLB/DE 'tweener prospect in the 40s. They also seem to have felt Maybin was going to make a significant leap forward he clearly hasn't. Had that planning worked out, the team would have needed to take an OLB next year when Pace's cap number dictates that cutting him outweighs the benefit of keeping him.

The problem is more in their assessment of the talent they had rather than in drafting strategy. Teams have ruined franchises for years chasing after the missing piece in the draft instead of taking the best value with the best chance of doing in the pros what he did in college. Again, this is where they felt the best value was when their pick came up as Rex (for better or worse) clearly felt that their front 3 should be able to generate some pressure independent of the LBers and we know they haven't been able to without 6-second long coverage sacks.

We'll see what he turns into. I wasn't riding Coples's dick all offseason and praying he would fall to the Jets. But taking a college DE and converting him to OLB who has to do more than beat his man from a 3-point stance, including drop into coverage and stick with today's generation of athletic TEs, will have a pretty high bust factor. You're saying we should roll the dice on a college DE and then telling him he will now play a different one than the one that made him a top prospect in the first place. That strategy is only smart if the player works out with the benefit of hindsight.

You're getting all frustrated over an award Erik Coleman once won for us.

Sperm did everyone know Coples was a top 5 talent ? Really ?

Where did I say we should roll the dice on a college DE to play OLB ? Where are you getting this stuff from ?

I think I plainly stated whats needed in each particular type of base defense. In the 3-4 you need LB's in the 4-3 you need DE's if anything I said the worst thing a team can do it try to convert a college DE into a full time OLB. I think you need to read my posts all the way through not just pick out snippits that you think is the basis for the entire post.

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