Sanchez sucks.

[Bleedin Green]

You. Didn't. Answer. The. Question.

Or is that too much talent for Jets fans who claim (with a wise ass tone) Sanchez cant succeed unless he has pro bowlers all around him. You know like most of the good to great QB's suffer from.

The problem is you've created your own criteria that you have decided is the be all, end all, and it cannot possibly be met. You want to base a group's supposed talent entirely on statistical success of those skill players with the given QB, when it's an entirely flawed premise. There always has been and always will be a direct correlation between the potential numbers a skill position player can put up based on the quality of their QB. If the QB is throwing for 3,000 yards per season, odds tell you that you're not going to end up with 2 1,000+ receivers on the roster unless the QB hardly throws to anyone else (in which case you would criticize the rest of those players). A QB's numbers will always affect his WRs numbers and that goes both ways. When you have a crappy WR starting for a top notch QB, his numbers are naturally going to be inflated over what they would be otherwise, and when you have a quality WR playing with a sh*t QB, they'll be worse than they would be with a better QB. Yet your entire premise is insisting that any time a WR doesn't put up acceptable numbers, that the automatic assumption is that the QB is blameless in the mater and it is all the fault of the WR. Trust me, I'm more than glad to admit the current talent level on the Jets' offense is far from spectacular, but when the point of debate is the questionable play of the QB, you have to look just beyond a WRs numbers playing with that QB.

You want to talk about the Falcons? Look at how many years it took Roddy White to get his sh*t together when he was playing with complete garbage at QB. He was considered a complete bust for the first two years of his career and only had one good season before Matt Ryan came to town, and has been one of the league's best ever since then. That's not a coincidence. Jones was a rookie last year and while he produced with the Falcons, there's nothing to say he would have with the Jets, and had he come to the Jets and not produced, you surely would have blamed the Jets for not giving Sanchez enough experienced talent and calling Jones a bust.

As far as the Colts of old go, Reggie Wayne was considered a nobody before he got a few years starting with Manning and playing across from Harrison who was drawing all of the double coverage. He didn't have his first 1,000 yard season until Year 4, despite playing with one of the best of all time. After Harrison was gone, Wayne was playing for the first time as a true #1 and the rest of Manning's weapons? The likes of Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Brandon Stokley. Hardly all world talent. Or look at the Patriots Pre-Moss, the talent those Pats had on offense were a complete pile of crap. If you want an example of a less HOF passer, look at a guy like Matt Schaub. Andre Johnson has been a walking injury these past few years and the rest of their receiving talent is a whole bunch of nobodies. Sure they've got a running game now, but they had garbage at RB before they dug up Foster, and Schaub was still putting up far better numbers than anything we've seen from Sanchez. Or how about over in Washington? Who do they have worth a damn at WR? They all suck so bad they can't even decide who to start on a weekly basis. Yet meanwhile, they've got a rookie QB who's far outperforming Sanchez. Hell, even Tannehill has numbers comparable or better than Sanchez's in almost every category, with a whole lot of nothing in terms of weapons and he's yet another rookie.

Meanwhile, do you really mean to tell me you don't think the likes of Keller and Kerley could put up better numbers starting for one of the NFL's top QBs? We already know for a fact that Holmes can put up better numbers than he has with Sanchez, because he's done it. The point is certainly not that Sanchez is the only problem, the point is that there's nothing to suggest that he's the innocent victim in all of this you try to paint him as. You can't look at every player who doesn't produce while playing with Sanchez and assume that the skill player is to blame and Sanchez has no part in it, particularly when you can see on the field on a weekly basis, Sanchez regularly missing reads and throwing bad passes to otherwise opens receivers.

What you're asking for is for people to find a great QB who puts up big numbers but who's WRs all do absolutely nothing and it's a statistical impossibility. After all, somebody has to catch the ball. However, none of that means that there aren't plenty of instances of the play of one player raising the level of play of others. It's the reason you've seen plenty of examples over the years throughout the league of players leaving one team only to never find the same success again with another team.

Yeah, I really had no intentions of this becoming one of "those posts", whoops. Yeah, yeah... TL;DR, I know.

[Pac]

The problem is you've created your own criteria that you have decided is the be all, end all, and it cannot possibly be met. You want to base a group's supposed talent entirely on statistical success of those skill players with the given QB, when it's an entirely flawed premise. There always has been and always will be a direct correlation between the potential numbers a skill position player can put up based on the quality of their QB. If the QB is throwing for 3,000 yards per season, odds tell you that you're not going to end up with 2 1,000+ receivers on the roster unless the QB hardly throws to anyone else (in which case you would criticize the rest of those players). A QB's numbers will always affect his WRs numbers and that goes both ways. When you have a crappy WR starting for a top notch QB, his numbers are naturally going to be inflated over what they would be otherwise, and when you have a quality WR playing with a sh*t QB, they'll be worse than they would be with a better QB. Yet your entire premise is insisting that any time a WR doesn't put up acceptable numbers, that the automatic assumption is that the QB is blameless in the mater and it is all the fault of the WR. Trust me, I'm more than glad to admit the current talent level on the Jets' offense is far from spectacular, but when the point of debate is the questionable play of the QB, you have to look just beyond a WRs numbers playing with that QB.

You want to talk about the Falcons? Look at how many years it took Roddy White to get his sh*t together when he was playing with complete garbage at QB. He was considered a complete bust for the first two years of his career and only had one good season before Matt Ryan came to town, and has been one of the league's best ever since then. That's not a coincidence. Jones was a rookie last year and while he produced with the Falcons, there's nothing to say he would have with the Jets, and had he come to the Jets and not produced, you surely would have blamed the Jets for not giving Sanchez enough experienced talent and calling Jones a bust.

As far as the Colts of old go, Reggie Wayne was considered a nobody before he got a few years starting with Manning and playing across from Harrison who was drawing all of the double coverage. He didn't have his first 1,000 yard season until Year 4, despite playing with one of the best of all time. After Harrison was gone, Wayne was playing for the first time as a true #1 and the rest of Manning's weapons? The likes of Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Brandon Stokley. Hardly all world talent. Or look at the Patriots Pre-Moss, the talent those Pats had on offense were a complete pile of crap. If you want an example of a less HOF passer, look at a guy like Matt Schaub. Andre Johnson has been a walking injury these past few years and the rest of their receiving talent is a whole bunch of nobodies. Sure they've got a running game now, but they had garbage at RB before they dug up Foster, and Schaub was still putting up far better numbers than anything we've seen from Sanchez. Or how about over in Washington? Who do they have worth a damn at WR? They all suck so bad they can't even decide who to start on a weekly basis. Yet meanwhile, they've got a rookie QB who's far outperforming Sanchez. Hell, even Tannehill has numbers comparable or better than Sanchez's in almost every category, with a whole lot of nothing in terms of weapons and he's yet another rookie.

Meanwhile, do you really mean to tell me you don't think the likes of Keller and Kerley could put up better numbers starting for one of the NFL's top QBs? We already know for a fact that Holmes can put up better numbers than he has with Sanchez, because he's done it. The point is certainly not that Sanchez is the only problem, the point is that there's nothing to suggest that he's the innocent victim in all of this you try to paint him as. You can't look at every player who doesn't produce while playing with Sanchez and assume that the skill player is to blame and Sanchez has no part in it, particularly when you can see on the field on a weekly basis, Sanchez regularly missing reads and throwing bad passes to otherwise opens receivers.

What you're asking for is for people to find a great QB who puts up big numbers but who's WRs all do absolutely nothing and it's a statistical impossibility. After all, somebody has to catch the ball. However, none of that means that there aren't plenty of instances of the play of one player raising the level of play of others. It's the reason you've seen plenty of examples over the years throughout the league of players leaving one team only to never find the same success again with another team.

Yeah, I really had no intentions of this becoming one of "those posts", whoops. Yeah, yeah... TL;DR, I know.

[Bleedin Green]

Yeah, like you know how to anyway.

[Pac]

Yeah, like you know how to anyway.

If I did I would use your posts as a sleep aid.

[Bleedin Green]

If I did I would use your posts as a sleep aid.

And that way you could dream about the loves of your life. I'm curious, which one is your real true love, Penny or Sanchez? You get a little hot and bothered you heard about them talking to each other this offseason? I mean, who needs facts and reality when you can blindly dedicate your heart and soul to your team's QB, amirite?

[#27TheDominator]

Another thing to consider is what the offense is trying to do. I know we all like to think that all the offense wants to do it score a TC on every possession, but the Jets don't go about that the way the Saints do and it's not all on the QB. Not every team is trying to put up pinball numbers like Mouse Davis. You kind of have to look at whether the play is "successful" or not. With the Jets playing close to the vest there's not going to be as much opportunity for TDs and big plays - or turnovers. That may explain why the Jets skill position players may not be as bad as Smash thinks.

I'm not worried about the numbers, I'm worried about the plays. I was very happy with Sanchez on Sunday. Obviously we aren't going to run like that every week, but when we do I want Sanchez to do exactly what he did there.

Or look at the Patriots Pre-Moss, the talent those Pats had on offense were a complete pile of crap.

Be careful. Garb's going to be angry.

[SMC]

Yeah, like you know how to anyway.

Well, I just ran your post through an online readibility calculator. Most books today for teens and adults are written on a 5th grade reading level. Your post is on a 12th grade reading level.

[Bleedin Green]

Well, I just ran your post through an online readibility calculator. Most books today for teens and adults are written on a 5th grade reading level. Your post is on a 12th grade reading level.

That's right, I'm smart and stuff bitches!

[Bleedin Green]

Be careful. Garb's going to be angry.

I take it I wouldn't like her when she's angry?

[JohnnyHector]

I take it I wouldn't like her when she's angry?

She must always be angry.

[T0mShane]

how is there a 35 page thread on Sanchez being mediocre?

ETA: 36 pages.

It's astounding. Time is fleeting. Madness takes its toll.

[Jet27]

To be honest people, who cares as long as we win the football game at the end of the day. I don't care if we win ugly or pretty doesnt matter in the W or L column.

[Smashmouth]

The problem is you've created your own criteria that you have decided is the be all, end all, and it cannot possibly be met. You want to base a group's supposed talent entirely on statistical success of those skill players with the given QB, when it's an entirely flawed premise. There always has been and always will be a direct correlation between the potential numbers a skill position player can put up based on the quality of their QB. If the QB is throwing for 3,000 yards per season, odds tell you that you're not going to end up with 2 1,000+ receivers on the roster unless the QB hardly throws to anyone else (in which case you would criticize the rest of those players). A QB's numbers will always affect his WRs numbers and that goes both ways. When you have a crappy WR starting for a top notch QB, his numbers are naturally going to be inflated over what they would be otherwise, and when you have a quality WR playing with a sh*t QB, they'll be worse than they would be with a better QB. Yet your entire premise is insisting that any time a WR doesn't put up acceptable numbers, that the automatic assumption is that the QB is blameless in the mater and it is all the fault of the WR. Trust me, I'm more than glad to admit the current talent level on the Jets' offense is far from spectacular, but when the point of debate is the questionable play of the QB, you have to look just beyond a WRs numbers playing with that QB.

You want to talk about the Falcons? Look at how many years it took Roddy White to get his sh*t together when he was playing with complete garbage at QB. He was considered a complete bust for the first two years of his career and only had one good season before Matt Ryan came to town, and has been one of the league's best ever since then. That's not a coincidence. Jones was a rookie last year and while he produced with the Falcons, there's nothing to say he would have with the Jets, and had he come to the Jets and not produced, you surely would have blamed the Jets for not giving Sanchez enough experienced talent and calling Jones a bust.

As far as the Colts of old go, Reggie Wayne was considered a nobody before he got a few years starting with Manning and playing across from Harrison who was drawing all of the double coverage. He didn't have his first 1,000 yard season until Year 4, despite playing with one of the best of all time. After Harrison was gone, Wayne was playing for the first time as a true #1 and the rest of Manning's weapons? The likes of Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Brandon Stokley. Hardly all world talent. Or look at the Patriots Pre-Moss, the talent those Pats had on offense were a complete pile of crap. If you want an example of a less HOF passer, look at a guy like Matt Schaub. Andre Johnson has been a walking injury these past few years and the rest of their receiving talent is a whole bunch of nobodies. Sure they've got a running game now, but they had garbage at RB before they dug up Foster, and Schaub was still putting up far better numbers than anything we've seen from Sanchez. Or how about over in Washington? Who do they have worth a damn at WR? They all suck so bad they can't even decide who to start on a weekly basis. Yet meanwhile, they've got a rookie QB who's far outperforming Sanchez. Hell, even Tannehill has numbers comparable or better than Sanchez's in almost every category, with a whole lot of nothing in terms of weapons and he's yet another rookie.

Meanwhile, do you really mean to tell me you don't think the likes of Keller and Kerley could put up better numbers starting for one of the NFL's top QBs? We already know for a fact that Holmes can put up better numbers than he has with Sanchez, because he's done it. The point is certainly not that Sanchez is the only problem, the point is that there's nothing to suggest that he's the innocent victim in all of this you try to paint him as. You can't look at every player who doesn't produce while playing with Sanchez and assume that the skill player is to blame and Sanchez has no part in it, particularly when you can see on the field on a weekly basis, Sanchez regularly missing reads and throwing bad passes to otherwise opens receivers.

What you're asking for is for people to find a great QB who puts up big numbers but who's WRs all do absolutely nothing and it's a statistical impossibility. After all, somebody has to catch the ball. However, none of that means that there aren't plenty of instances of the play of one player raising the level of play of others. It's the reason you've seen plenty of examples over the years throughout the league of players leaving one team only to never find the same success again with another team.

Yeah, I really had no intentions of this becoming one of "those posts", whoops. Yeah, yeah... TL;DR, I know.

So Reggie Wayne was a nobody yet he played for a high profile college team and was drafted in round one. Stop making up stories to make your arguement look better. Also when it comes to adding players to an already established offense of Harrison Wayne and Edge your talking about a much different situation than changing up 2 -3 WR's per year and keeping the one WR who caused your team the most trouble and letting the other WR who stepped up big time in the playoffs go. Its easy for a guy like Gonzalez or Collie to step into the slot position when you have a 100 catch TE and two HOF WR's on the outside dont you think ? The Colts offense had long been established and Manning was very comfortable in it. Are you telling me Sanchez has had any where near the stability Manniong had ?? or any other QB mentioned for that matter ? Because if you are your full of sh*t. The Jets have done a horrible job with Sanchez in just about every aspect of the offense and they have a head coach who is freakin delusional when it comes to offense. I would be willing to bet Rex thinks his Ground and Pound is all good now that we ran on the Colts that is until NE stuffs our freakin faces in next week. Rex now has his numbers to quote.

As for Roddy White I have no issue at all with WR's having some growing pains their first few years in the NFL very few break out their first year. And just because I think Sanchez has the talent to be a good QB does not mean I dont think some QB's out there suck. Because I do think plenty of them suck. I think Micheal Vick sucks as a QB while most football fans lick his balls . He is the main problem with the Eagles offense and until Andy Reid stops looking at the occasional great play or great run and installs a real QB that team wont win anything with any consistency. I think the same thing will happen with Cam Newton who came into the league throwing the ball all over the yard. All his mistakes were over looked now they are biting him in the ass.

I never ever said Brady had great talent his first 4 years in the NFL but he put up modest numbers and the main reason he won 3 SB's early on in his career was because they had a SB caliber defense that made huge plays when needed and shut down Manning regularly. Brady was never lighting up the scoreboard. The Pats won more games 17 - 10 than anything else. The one thing you cant take away from those Pats WR's was their play in the playoffs. They stepped up big time, it was not all Brady. As soon as the Pats started adding more skill players on offense in Moss and and emerging Welker and already had a solid TE in place Brady began to light it up. Difference between Brady and Sanchez early in their careers was Brady made much fewer mistakes and thats what I hold aganist Sanchez.

If the Jets do not want to get real talent in here then I think they should trade Sanchez. Actully this is not just about Sanchez because I would have said this for any QB in this dreadful organization.

[JohnnyHector]

If the Jets do not want to get real talent in here then I think they should trade Sanchez.

If only this was a possibility.

[Bugg]

So Reggie Wayne was a nobody yet he played for a high profile college team and was drafted in round one. Stop making up stories to make your arguement look better. Also when it comes to adding players to an already established offense of Harrison Wayne and Edge your talking about a much different situation than changing up 2 -3 WR's per year and keeping the one WR who caused your team the most trouble and letting the other WR who stepped up big time in the playoffs go. Its easy for a guy like Gonzalez or Collie to step into the slot position when you have a 100 catch TE and two HOF WR's on the outside dont you think ? The Colts offense had long been established and Manning was very comfortable in it. Are you telling me Sanchez has had any where near the stability Manniong had ?? or any other QB mentioned for that matter ? Because if you are your full of sh*t. The Jets have done a horrible job with Sanchez in just about every aspect of the offense and they have a head coach who is freakin delusional when it comes to offense. I would be willing to bet Rex thinks his Ground and Pound is all good now that we ran on the Colts that is until NE stuffs our freakin faces in next week. Rex now has his numbers to quote.

As for Roddy White I have no issue at all with WR's having some growing pains their first few years in the NFL very few break out their first year. And just because I think Sanchez has the talent to be a good QB does not mean I dont think some QB's out there suck. Because I do think plenty of them suck. I think Micheal Vick sucks as a QB while most football fans lick his balls . He is the main problem with the Eagles offense and until Andy Reid stops looking at the occasional great play or great run and installs a real QB that team wont win anything with any consistency. I think the same thing will happen with Cam Newton who came into the league throwing the ball all over the yard. All his mistakes were over looked now they are biting him in the ass.

I never ever said Brady had great talent his first 4 years in the NFL but he put up modest numbers and the main reason he won 3 SB's early on in his career was because they had a SB caliber defense that made huge plays when needed and shut down Manning regularly. Brady was never lighting up the scoreboard. The Pats won more games 17 - 10 than anything else. The one thing you cant take away from those Pats WR's was their play in the playoffs. They stepped up big time, it was not all Brady. As soon as the Pats started adding more skill players on offense in Moss and and emerging Welker and already had a solid TE in place Brady began to light it up. Difference between Brady and Sanchez early in their careers was Brady made much fewer mistakes and thats what I hold aganist Sanchez.

If the Jets do not want to get real talent in here then I think they should trade Sanchez. Actully this is not just about Sanchez because I would have said this for any QB in this dreadful organization.

Trade Sanchez to whom? If you cut him tomorrow morning he would likely be someoene else's2 or evenmore likely 3 QB making NFL minimum. He would be hard-pressed to beat out David Carr(#2 with the Jints) or Matt Leinart (#2 with the Raiders).

He plays right nwo because the Jets are right now .500 and because they don't have confidence-yet-in either Tebow or McElroy. If Pick 6 goes out and screws the pooch hard Sunday night, that will change.

[Bleedin Green]

So Reggie Wayne was a nobody yet he played for a high profile college team and was drafted in round one. Stop making up stories to make your arguement look better.

Come on man, now you're now citing college football? If you want to go that route, your entire argument completely falls apart. Take a look at the Jets offense since Sanchez showed up. Let's recap, shall we? Holmes, Keller and Braylon were all first rounders, LT and Jones were picked #5 and #7 overall respectively. You can even add on that Hill is a second rounder, Greene a third, and McKnight a fourth. You can't possibly believe draft position is nearly as important as you're now trying to pass it off as, otherwise you've managed to just disprove your own position.

Also when it comes to adding players to an already established offense of Harrison Wayne and Edge your talking about a much different situation than changing up 2 -3 WR's per year and keeping the one WR who caused your team the most trouble and letting the other WR who stepped up big time in the playoffs go. Its easy for a guy like Gonzalez or Collie to step into the slot position when you have a 100 catch TE and two HOF WR's on the outside dont you think ? The Colts offense had long been established and Manning was very comfortable in it. Are you telling me Sanchez has had any where near the stability Manniong had ?? or any other QB mentioned for that matter ? Because if you are your full of sh*t. The Jets have done a horrible job with Sanchez in just about every aspect of the offense and they have a head coach who is freakin delusional when it comes to offense. I would be willing to bet Rex thinks his Ground and Pound is all good now that we ran on the Colts that is until NE stuffs our freakin faces in next week. Rex now has his numbers to quote.

I want you to go back and reread this and tell me how this isn't simply a list of excuses. Your argument was that Sanchez's constant failures are all due to the lack of skill position players and that in no case ever has the play of a QB had an impact on how weaker skill position players performed. Now there's a list of excuses as to why it doesn't count when examples of that happening are given? You're even going as far as somehow trying to credit guys like James and Harrison for the success of mediocre talents who they never even played with, just as a desperate means to keep any credit from going to the QB. Do you realize how absurd that is? Not to mention the difference we've now seen in statistical output from Manning's new set of receivers in Denver than from a year ago with everyone's favorite backup starting for them, or the extreme decline in numbers that all of the Colts' skill position players saw last year without Manning.

As for Roddy White I have no issue at all with WR's having some growing pains their first few years in the NFL very few break out their first year. And just because I think Sanchez has the talent to be a good QB does not mean I dont think some QB's out there suck. Because I do think plenty of them suck. I think Micheal Vick sucks as a QB while most football fans lick his balls . He is the main problem with the Eagles offense and until Andy Reid stops looking at the occasional great play or great run and installs a real QB that team wont win anything with any consistency. I think the same thing will happen with Cam Newton who came into the league throwing the ball all over the yard. All his mistakes were over looked now they are biting him in the ass.

I won't necessarily disagree with this overall concept, but the point that you're missing is that there was a direct correlation between White's improved play, and the improved QB play on his team. You asked to be given examples of how a QB's play can directly impact of their performance of a WR, and so there you have it. So even if you disagree about Sanchez, there is at least some basis for people believing that the lack of statistical success for the Jets skill players is in part due to Sanchez's play.

I never ever said Brady had great talent his first 4 years in the NFL but he put up modest numbers and the main reason he won 3 SB's early on in his career was because they had a SB caliber defense that made huge plays when needed and shut down Manning regularly. Brady was never lighting up the scoreboard. The Pats won more games 17 - 10 than anything else. The one thing you cant take away from those Pats WR's was their play in the playoffs. They stepped up big time, it was not all Brady. As soon as the Pats started adding more skill players on offense in Moss and and emerging Welker and already had a solid TE in place Brady began to light it up. Difference between Brady and Sanchez early in their careers was Brady made much fewer mistakes and thats what I hold aganist Sanchez.

If the Jets do not want to get real talent in here then I think they should trade Sanchez. Actully this is not just about Sanchez because I would have said this for any QB in this dreadful organization.

I don't disagree with you that the Pats offense took a step up when they finally started getting some more legit skill players, but even Super Bowls aside, there's really no argument that can be made that doesn't say Brady significantly statistically outperformed Sanchez across the board even in those early years, despite the lack of talent.

And yes, I'm well aware you would say that about any QB for this organization, as this is certainly not the first time we've disagreed about a Jets' QB. The problem is, I completely disagree with your entire view of the quarterback position, as do many it would seem. The bottom line is we're talking about, far and away, the single most position in all of football and even if the QB, regardless of who it is, could use some more help, that does not make it acceptable to have the kind of inexcusably bad performances we've seen out of Sanchez. Even if he could play better with more help, the point is that if he is really all that good, his performance level would never have dipped as low as it has. So the evidence would suggest that even with a better supporting cast, he'll only ever be so much better than he is now, and in today's NFL, that's simply not good enough.

[Pac]

someone make them stop.

[JohnnyHector]

someone make them stop.

What, the voices in your head that have convinced you that Pennington and Sanchez are passable NFL QB's?

[Bleedin Green]

What, the voices in your head that have convinced you that Pennington and Sanchez are passable NFL QB's?

"Passable"... ha.

[#27TheDominator]

Battle of tl;dr !

[SouthernJet]

Discuss this exciting new topic.

2 picks

2 fumbles

How many batted/tipped passes? 4? 5?

4th consecutive game completing under 50% of his passes.

Terrible football player. Terrible.

I hate the deflections at line of scrimmage.

I will say this, Sanchez has more 'tips' than a over worked Mohel.

[artemusclyde]

The examples your making here are ridiculous claiming Manning and Marino had no talent around them ?

Peyton Manning had 2 Hall of Fame WR's throughout most of his career a Hall of Fame Running back his rookie season who was replaced by a borderline HOF player in Edgerrin James and you claim thats sh*t talent ?

Your also Claiming Tony Romo has sh*t talent ? Are you serious ?

If you want to claim Sanchez sucks thats fine just dont use the examples you used above.

Name me one team in the NFL right now who has worse talent than the Jets on Offense. Just one. Hell name me one offense that has a WR corp with less than 100 total catches in the NFL. Im sorry Sanchez is not good enough to turn total crap into gold but neither are any of the other QB's in this league. You put any QB in this league in this offense and you will have very close to the same sh*t you have now. As great as Aaron Rodgers is if he was drafted by the Jets we would have destroyed him just like we are doing with Sanchez and the problem goes way deeper than just talent.

If your telling me to include the qb, then you got me their. As for worse talent, Green Bay. Worse oline, worse running game, and better receivers. Tony Romo does have a pretty crappy team, his team has given up huge leads repeatedly in the 4th quarter. Compare that to our Jets team who use to hold them to what like, 14 points a game? Sanchez also had Thomas Jones, mangold, faneca, and fergurson and still sucked. He had a great rookie team just like any other qb and he was horrible. He hasn't improved. I can't see how you guys could say he had no talent during his rookie years when the team carried him to an AFC championship game for back to back years.

Plus, we can't logically debate offenses when we have Sanchez leading our offense. Look at the Broncos. Lead the league in three and outs with Tebow and look at them now with Manning.

Also, you guys always say what would Sanchez look like with Calvin Jonhson, and Andre Jonhson. Lets ask the other question, what would our offense look like with Manning or Rodgers? I highly doubt they'd be putting up the same crap numbers if we had Manning or Rodgers.

[jetsjetsjetss]

Also, you guys always say what would Sanchez look like with Calvin Jonhson, and Andre Jonhson. Lets ask the other question, what would our offense look like with Manning or Rodgers? I highly doubt they'd be putting up the same crap numbers if we had Manning or Rodgers.

I can answer. They will look like that cromartie play. running wide open as sanchez underthrows them

[CrazyCarl40]

I can answer. They will look like that cromartie play. running wide open as sanchez underthrows them

Except a talented wide receiver would get his feet in bounds and it wouldn't matter.

[JFtoLong]

well heres the deal, if Sanchez can not produce with better talent around him the solution is easy we ship him off, cut trade whatever. Keep in mind if we do get some talent in here and Sanchez fails at least we bring in a new young QB with talent in place. Unlike we have done in the past.

This!

The only thing I would add to this is if you have an opportunity to get someone better, either through the draft, trade or free agency, by all means, do it!

But this notion that anyone would be better is pure stupidity.

The haters are completely irrational. I have not seen anyone, myself nor anyone else claim Sanchez was playing good football, yet the haters are unwilling to take any stance other than he is horrible, everything is completely his fault, and nobody else, not the coaches, nor the talent have any bearing on how bad he has looked.

[JustInFudge]

This!

The only thing I would add to this is if you have an opportunity to get someone better, either through the draft, trade or free agency, by all means, do it!

But this notion that anyone would be better is pure stupidity.

The haters are completely irrational. I have not seen anyone, myself nor anyone else claim Sanchez was playing good football, yet the haters are unwilling to take any stance other than he is horrible, everything is completely his fault, and nobody else, not the coaches, nor the talent have any bearing on how bad he has looked.

Haha! You want Rex fired. Think he is a horrible HC. But you want to see Sanchez with more weapons. And the "haters", who ever they may be, are irrational.

I <3 this place.

[JFtoLong]

Haha! You want Rex fired. Think he is a horrible HC. But you want to see Sanchez with more weapons. And the "haters", who ever they may be, are irrational.

I <3 this place.

I don't like Rex, sorry, but I don't.

I think he is a good defensive guy, and a bad HC for his ignoring of the offense, and his losing the team.

I cannot stand his big mouth.

I also think he is absolutely horrible with personnel decisions.

That said, I acknowledge that he has a good records so far as HC.

I don't however like the trend of getting worse instead of better.

Keep in mind, he has the same record, playoffs and all as Sanchez as the starting QB.

[JFtoLong]

Haha! You want Rex fired. Think he is a horrible HC. But you want to see Sanchez with more weapons. And the "haters", who ever they may be, are irrational.

I <3 this place.

BTW, I want any QB for the Jets to have more weapons, whether it be Sanchez or anyone else.

This league is a playmaker league, the Jets have no playmakers.

Rexy has something to do with that.

[Maxman]

BTW, I want any QB for the Jets to have more weapons, whether it be Sanchez or anyone else.

This league is a playmaker league, the Jets have no playmakers.

Rexy has something to do with that.

Stephen Hill is going to be a playmaker, but it is too much to ask of him this year.

The Jets best hope is that Santonio Holmes being out ends up being addition by subtraction.

[jetsjetsjetss]

Except a talented wide receiver would get his feet in bounds and it wouldn't matter.

yes and no. Yes itd gain yard. No it doesnt mean our QB doesnt suck it just masks the fact that he missed a potential touchdown

[JFtoLong]

Stephen Hill is going to be a playmaker, but it is too much to ask of him this year.

The Jets best hope is that Santonio Holmes being out ends up being addition by subtraction.

I agree, if Hill can catch consistently, I think he will be a big playmaker next year or the year after.

I also feel that for as talented as he is, he brings more negative to the table than positive.

The Steelers are a great franchise, they would not have dumped Holmes the way they did, with as much talent as he has if he were a team positive.

We are talking about a team that kept Ben The Raper.

[Smashmouth]

Stephen Hill is going to be a playmaker, but it is too much to ask of him this year.

The Jets best hope is that Santonio Holmes being out ends up being addition by subtraction.

I think it very well might be. I really wonder how much a guy like Holmes who most feel is a complete Idiot was in Sanchez ear creating more pressure should be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Smashmouth]

Come on man, now you're now citing college football? If you want to go that route, your entire argument completely falls apart. Take a look at the Jets offense since Sanchez showed up. Let's recap, shall we? Holmes, Keller and Braylon were all first rounders, LT and Jones were picked #5 and #7 overall respectively. You can even add on that Hill is a second rounder, Greene a third, and McKnight a fourth. You can't possibly believe draft position is nearly as important as you're now trying to pass it off as, otherwise you've managed to just disprove your own position.

BG you said specifically Reggie Wayne was a nobody, all I did was prove you wrong then you twist it here talking about Keller and Braylon who will never even sniff the HOF which was why Wayne was brought up in the first place. If Braylon (who I do happen to like) put up HOF numbers on a previous team I would agree the blame should go on a QB that could not get him the football. Only problem is Sanchez did very well with Braylon espeically in the playoffs and the Idiot Jets decided Holmes was the better answer just as Sanchez and Braylon stated to really build a nice chemistry. Typical stupid Jets move.

I want you to go back and reread this and tell me how this isn't simply a list of excuses. Your argument was that Sanchez's constant failures are all due to the lack of skill position players and that in no case ever has the play of a QB had an impact on how weaker skill position players performed. Now there's a list of excuses as to why it doesn't count when examples of that happening are given? You're even going as far as somehow trying to credit guys like James and Harrison for the success of mediocre talents who they never even played with, just as a desperate means to keep any credit from going to the QB. Do you realize how absurd that is? Not to mention the difference we've now seen in statistical output from Manning's new set of receivers in Denver than from a year ago with everyone's favorite backup starting for them, or the extreme decline in numbers that all of the Colts' skill position players saw last year without Manning.

In the case of Peyton Manning and the Colts he basicly ran the entire offense and called all the plays. Moore was gone the previous year and their new OC stepped in and Manning ran the show. When the Colts signed Collins 2 weeks before the season started the wrting was on the wall he was the sacrificial lamb. Trying to step into a system in total disarray with an OC who was probably not up to speed with 2 weeks to prepare is too much to ask of any QB and it unraveled pretty quickly. And yes my point makes total sense when you have an established offense with 4 pro bowlers at the skill position's who were together for years it is much easier for one player to step in and be successful.

I won't necessarily disagree with this overall concept, but the point that you're missing is that there was a direct correlation between White's improved play, and the improved QB play on his team. You asked to be given examples of how a QB's play can directly impact of their performance of a WR, and so there you have it. So even if you disagree about Sanchez, there is at least some basis for people believing that the lack of statistical success for the Jets skill players is in part due to Sanchez's play.

I never said White's improved play had nothing to do with the QB because it did. But if your going to tell me Joey Harrington was a good QB I'll laugh in your face and just so your aware Roddy White had 1200 receiving yards and 6 TD's with Harrington and Chris Redman at QB . So once again your making up stories to support your arguement on a specific subject. Roddy White was certainly not viewed as a bust .

I don't disagree with you that the Pats offense took a step up when they finally started getting some more legit skill players, but even Super Bowls aside, there's really no argument that can be made that doesn't say Brady significantly statistically outperformed Sanchez across the board even in those early years, despite the lack of talent.

BG I dont even want to get into a direct comparision of the 2 players but lets face it Brady was not burning up the league his first 4 years yet they won 3 SB's because of the Defense all the Jets fans though we had the first 2 years of Rex's Tenure. Difference between the Pats defense and the Jets defense was they stepped it up when their offense was doing nothing and they did it on a regular basis. When Sanchez took our Jets to a 17-6 lead vs the Manning led Colts if we had that Patriot defense we would have went to the SB Instead our coach got conservative on offense and our defense could not stop Manning for the rest of the game. of course somehow Sanchez haters blame Sanchez its just too easy. Int the Pittsburgh AFCCG I certainly put some blame on Sanchez getting blind sided strip sacked but he was bringing the team back and when the Jets needed the big stop at the end of the game they failed as usual. Sanchez was Shredding the Steelers the entire second half and if not for some idiot goalline calls by Shoddy and no sense of urgency on our last drive with 8 minutes left in the game when we should have been in hurry up mode down by 2 scores was more testament Shoddy was an idiot and Rex closely behind him not pushing the issue.

And yes, I'm well aware you would say that about any QB for this organization, as this is certainly not the first time we've disagreed about a Jets' QB. The problem is, I completely disagree with your entire view of the quarterback position, as do many it would seem. The bottom line is we're talking about, far and away, the single most position in all of football and even if the QB, regardless of who it is, could use some more help, that does not make it acceptable to have the kind of inexcusably bad performances we've seen out of Sanchez. Even if he could play better with more help, the point is that if he is really all that good, his performance level would never have dipped as low as it has. So the evidence would suggest that even with a better supporting cast, he'll only ever be so much better than he is now, and in today's NFL, that's simply not good enough.

Just so your aware BG and I'll say this for the 50th time. I do not think Sanchez is playing good at all but Ive seen enough to see he does have the talent its just been inconsistent because quite honestly the entire offense is inconsistent. How many times do we have to see players lined up wrong and Sanchez correcting them ? How many times do we have to see WR's run lazy routes and not fight for the football ? How many times do we have to see WR's make the wrong cut ? You make the case that just because Sanchez missed a few wide open deep balls that he sucks the problem with that arguement is every QB in the NFL has a low percentage on deep balls you see a guy like Rodgers connect on a ton of them in the highlights but do you actully watch him play every week and see the ones he misses on ? Do you think Sanchez has even close to the same amount of deep throws as a Rodgers does ? The fact is Sanchez ha connected on some nice deep balls and he has missed a few but I guess being a Jets fan you feel every deep ball should be completed.

My arguement is and always has been that Sanchez makes too many mistakes and most of that comes from never finding an open receiver. I think he tries to extend plays and pays the price by not securing the football but thats his style. When your in the pocket scrambling the ball is always in a position you can easily go into a throwing motion. The only time you tuck the ball away is if your going to actully give up on the pass and run the football. ALL QB's in the NFL do this and they all get strip sacked and they all fumble. Its much easier to just dump the ball or throw it out of bounds when you run a prolific offense but when you run an offense like the Jets maybe you try to do a little too much . This is not an excuse this is what I think Sanchez is actully doing and he has to do it more than all the QB's in the league because the talent around him is just not getting their job done.

I think the loss of Holmes is actully going to help this offense for many reasons but Im not going to get into that I think you know where Im coming from with this statement lets see how it goes the rest of the season. But with that being said you cant dispute the FACT that this offense has no real threat out of the back field to consistently catch passes and hovering around 100 total catches (probably more now) for the ENTIRE receiving corp. is not what anyone would consider even decent talent.

[JustInFudge]

Stephen Hill is going to be a playmaker, but it is too much to ask of him this year.

The Jets best hope is that Santonio Holmes being out ends up being addition by subtraction.

Kerley has a punt return for a TD and how many receptions over 30 yards this season?

McKnight has a kick off return for a TD and a 74 yard scamper.

Cumberland caught an acrobatic 51 yard TD.

Tebow has 3, 4th down conversions on fake punts.

Cro has a pick six, had 2 called back, 1 completely bogus and he pretty much had a walk in TD if it werent for his sh*tty QB.

Hill certainly looks like he's got play making ability

Landry has a pick 6 and lays wood like no other.

Holmes was on his way to a spectacular season and pretty much is the reason why the Jets won in Miami.

Yet, the Jets have no play makers.

<3 JN.

[Smashmouth]

I don't like Rex, sorry, but I don't.

Keep in mind, he has the same record, playoffs and all as Sanchez as the starting QB.

wait arent these 2 statements taboo around here

But hey we all know the 2 AFCCG's and the reason we got there was ONLY about the defense. You know the same defense that sh*t the bed in both games getting Gashed by the steelers running game and Gashed by Peyton Manning who the Patriots used to shut down on a regular basis in the playoffs.