Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm way too goy to be confused with tEY. I never said his metric for determining offensive ranking was valid. Is goy the new gay? Can I play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Is it too much to ask an "elite" defense to close the ball game when it is their hands? To me, no. Yet, we see Rex's defense give up game winning drives far too often. Sanchez doesn't play defense. Can't pin that on him. The Jets and Patriots had approximately the same number of plays on offense through 3 quarters, so don't try the excuse "they were tired because of offensive ineptitude". Rex's defense sucks too. Especially when games are on the line. It is a fact. What gives you the right to demand a perfect defense year in and year out? Why is it unacceptable to accept a D that is below top 5? Do you know how stupid this argument is? You have the # 30 QB in the league. You also have a top 5-10 defense every year. Yet Rex, the mastermind behind the D, is to blame for our "failures". Not to mention the D "sucks" now. Only maybe 1 team in the league (Niners) has had as consistently good of a defense as the Jets have for the last 4 years. Even the mighty Ravens D went off a cliff even BEFORE Webb and Ray Lewis went down. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm way too goy to be confused with tEY. I never said his metric for determining offensive ranking was valid. I know, but you busybody aholes didn't let tEY fall into my trap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 what the hell are we even arguing I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 LOL. You're quibbling over 3 spots in defensive DVOA? Both the Jets and Lions' Ds are mediocre-to-suck according to DVOA, but the Lions are better according to official NFL stats of total defense and they are a slot apart in points allowed. We're ultimately arguing over QB's here. The Jets D has been far from perfect, but Sanchez and Stafford are on opposite ends of the QB pole right now. There are about 7-8 QB's better than Stafford, while there are only about 3-4 QB's WORSE than Sanchez. Remove Calvin Johnson and Sanchez would still be far below Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 What gives you the right to demand a perfect defense year in and year out? Why is it unacceptable to accept a D that is below top 5? Do you know how stupid this argument is? You have the # 30 QB in the league. You also have a top 5-10 defense every year. Yet Rex, the mastermind behind the D, is to blame for our "failures". Not to mention the D "sucks" now. LOL! Ridiculous. All I ask is that when they are in game protect mode, that if they are to be elite, that they stop someone. They have never been able to close games when they are there to be grabbed by the throat. Is that asking "perfection"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 We're ultimately arguing over QB's here. The Jets D has been far from perfect, but Sanchez and Stafford are on opposite ends of the QB pole right now. There are about 7-8 QB's better than Stafford, while there are only about 3-4 QB's WORSE than Sanchez. Remove Calvin Johnson and Sanchez would still be far below Stafford. Yeah, I agree that without Megatron Stafford would still be better. I just think it's an interesting occurance that even with such a superior QB, the Jets O has essentially scored the same as the Lions' O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 All I ask is that when they are in game protect mode, that if they are to be elite, that they stop someone. They have never been able to close games when they are there to be grabbed by the throat. Is that asking "perfection"? Pretty much. You're basically asking for the D to hold to 0 rather than a FG against the # 1 offense led by Brady. Meanwhile, you're asking NOTHING from Sanchez but to be his same sh*tty self. If you held Sanchez and the offense to the same standard as the defense you'd have wanted Sanchez gone years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Pretty much. You're basically asking for the D to hold to 0 rather than a FG against the # 1 offense led by Brady. Meanwhile, you're asking NOTHING from Sanchez but to be his same sh*tty self. If you held Sanchez and the offense to the same standard as the defense you'd have wanted Sanchez gone years ago. I have already said that Sanchez sucks. But accountability does not stop with him. Only for those with blinders on. Rex's "elite" defense, as some here have mistakenly called them have given up 10 second half leads, and 6 4th quarter leads during his tenure. he does not have the heart of a closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If we had a defense that Rex is saying we have, we would be 5-2 you would if "Sanchez" didn't wear them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 you would if "Sanchez" didn't wear them out. Were they worn out this weekend, when plays were relatively equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Were they worn out this weekend, when plays were relatively equal? they had the ball on the 20 something with 2 minutes left and go three and out minus 12 yards. Folk bailed them out but god forbid they could take a little more Time off the clock or score a touchdown against the worst secondary in football. And stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 **** the iPhone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Pretty much. You're basically asking for the D to hold to 0 rather than a FG against the # 1 offense led by Brady. Meanwhile, you're asking NOTHING from Sanchez but to be his same sh*tty self. If you held Sanchez and the offense to the same standard as the defense you'd have wanted Sanchez gone years ago. Dude, the Rex D is the 3rd worst in the last 4 years in allowing a game tying or winning score at the end of regulation. They allow the game tying or winning score 40% of the time. You can't use the "oooh, it was the #1 offense" argument when Rex's D allowed the same against Ryan Tannenhill. When it comes to holding a lead, the Rex D sucks as much as Sanchez does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 they had the ball on the 20 something with 2 minutes left and go three and out minus 7 yards. Folk bailed them out but god forbid the could take a little more Tim off the clock or score a touchdown against the worst secondary in football. And stuff! Again, can the defense stop someone when the game is on the line? Apparently not. I already said Sanchez sucks. This is all on Rex's watch, so he is most culpable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 **** the iPhone ! Sounds goy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sounds goy this goy ass phone an it's little touch pad and stupid goy auto correct takes my 5 minutes just to type the word goy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interesting article: Mark seems to have 3rd worst contract according to this guy. http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2125/worst-nfl-contracts-no-running-from-russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I have already said that Sanchez sucks. But accountability does not stop with him. Only for those with blinders on. Rex's "elite" defense, as some here have mistakenly called them have given up 10 second half leads, and 6 4th quarter leads during his tenure. he does not have the heart of a closer. Absolutely nobody has said the accountability stops with him. That's just a bunch of nonsensical drivel fabricated by those trying to defend Sanchez by any means. The issue is quite the opposite, as there is a contingent of those who feel the need to excuse Sanchez of all accountability just because not every other player on the roster is the single best at their position. As far as your measurement of the defense, while they certainly haven't been perfect, to try to blame any late leads lost entirely on them simply proves beyond doubt that you have a very clear agenda. It takes two sides of a team to lose a lead, not just one, and while the defense is certainly far from behind blameless, neither is the offense, unless you are suggesting that you find it reasonable to have the expectations that a defense should not allow another single point to be scored in an entire game the second their team gains the lead. Is that what your belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Absolutely nobody has said the accountability stops with him. That's just a bunch of nonsensical drivel fabricated by those trying to defend Sanchez by any means. The issue is quite the opposite, as there is a contingent of those who feel the need to excuse Sanchez of all accountability just because not every other player on the roster is the single best at their position. As far as your measurement of the defense, while they certainly haven't been perfect, to try to blame any late leads lost entirely on them simply proves beyond doubt that you have a very clear agenda. It takes two sides of a team to lose a lead, not just one, and while the defense is certainly far from behind blameless, neither is the offense, unless you are suggesting that you find it reasonable to have the expectations that a defense should not allow another single point to be scored in an entire game the second their team gains the lead. Is that what your belief? My belief is that both sides of the ball are bad. There is not a total culpability on any one player or position. And that points the finger at the coach and staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Dude, the Rex D is the 3rd worst in the last 4 years in allowing a game tying or winning score at the end of regulation. They allow the game tying or winning score 40% of the time. You can't use the "oooh, it was the #1 offense" argument when Rex's D allowed the same against Ryan Tannenhill. When it comes to holding a lead, the Rex D sucks as much as Sanchez does. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but you have to look at the offenses contribution to the problems. Just look at both the Miami and NE games as the perfect examples. You can bitch about the defense giving up late drives all you want, but in both cases those were the only three points the defense allowed in the entire quarter. Perhaps if the offense ever carried their weight, it wouldn't be such a problem. Instead they get handed the ball in scoring range, lose yards on the drive and come away with a field goal, giving the Pats an opportunity they never should have had in the first place. The defense is faaaaaaar from blameless for that, and it's certainly an issue, but to act as if this even slightly excuses the unacceptable performance we routinely see out of the offense for 4 full quarters is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My belief is that both sides of the ball are bad. There is not a total culpability on any one player or position. And that points the finger at the coach and staff. Yeah, they suck. It's just that of all the players, Sanchez sucks the worst while sucking at the most important position in football. Thus the 90+ page thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yeah, they suck. It's just that of all the players, Sanchez sucks the worst while sucking at the most important position in football. Thus the 90+ page thread. Bye, Rex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My belief is that both sides of the ball are bad. There is not a total culpability on any one player or position. And that points the finger at the coach and staff. I think it says one side may be very good, but certainly not elite and that Sanchez sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think it says one side may be very good, but certainly not elite and that Sanchez sucks. ooooh look gramps over here just summed the whole thing up beautifully. Should we stop now or push on to 100+ pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Busy day with French poetry in the basement. What'd I miss? :sips coffee, looks around: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 ooooh look gramps over here just summed the whole thing up beautifully. Should we stop now or push on to 100+ pages? Ilk 91 Jets Fans 2 Lets keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 thanks for the frankenstorm sanchez you suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Busy day with French poetry in the basement. What'd I miss? :sips coffee, looks around: roses are red violets are blue sanchez still plays like poo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 roses are red violets are blue sanchez still plays like poo? So basically this thread has become like the ending to Wayne's World, where everyone talks about what they learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 If all you care about is wins, maybe you should look at WPA: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB If you want to add in other factors like apportioning credit and blame, and expected points, then perhaps ESPN's QBR is a better metric: https://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Either way, Sanchez sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 My belief is that both sides of the ball are bad. There is not a total culpability on any one player or position. And that points the finger at the coach and staff. The reason I'm still good with Rex is a cursory look at this roster reveals a team that you wouldn't really expect to be better than 3-4. You can't get water from a stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 So basically this thread has become like the ending to Wayne's World, where everyone talks about what they learned. Can we keep trying different endings until we find one we like? Personally, I'm voting in favor of the Scooby Doo ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The reason I'm still good with Rex is a cursory look at this roster reveals a team that you wouldn't really expect to be better than 3-4. You can't get water from a stone. Agreed. One simply can't ignore the wins since his arrival given Sanchez. My concern is strictly structural. The Jets need to completely redo the way that they approach building a team, meaning Rex's role with things like drafting and player selection in FA probably needs to be redone when Tannenbaum's gone. Simply put, they need to bring in a no man who'll bring a new mentality to the FO. Someone to say that giving David Harris the largest ILB contract in history is a bad idea. That trading for Tebow is a bad idea. That developing Sanchez the way that Rex and Co. did is a bad idea. That endlessly giving up pick after pick for high contract players is a bad idea. That drafts need to be balanced. And that type of restructuring is going to have a huge effect on the way that the FO interacts with Rex, and it might result in having some degree of his influence diminished in a few regards. Basically, I'm not sure how you completely redo the relationship between FO and the HC when he's this far into his tenure; the behavior is too self-reinforced and it would really take a wiz to keep the guy happy when you come in and just redefine several aspects of his job when he'll have been here for almost half a decade with some success. But there are some real gaps in his ability as a coach. He's still such a dunce when it comes to offense, clock management against the Pats was beyond moronic, and he's still deferring to the OC for almost everything. It's an offense's league, and some point the FO has to make it clear that if he's only interested in being a coordinator, maybe this isn't the job for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Can we keep trying different endings until we find one we like? Personally, I'm voting in favor of the Scooby Doo ending. And you know what the worst part is? I NEVER LEARNED TO READ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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