RutgersJetFan Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 He's infuriating when Melo is out of the game. Yeah, that Miami game was brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I agree Hector & Broadway. The foul calls are so inconsistent. I think it was in the Memphis game where JR was called for a flagrant trying to block a dunk and all JR did was hit the player's arm. Also, the NBA was supposedly supposed to crack down on body fouling players in the air because of safety reasons, but then you get the Melo-Howard play and also Chandler, who was hit in the back going for the RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yeah, that Miami game was brutal. I like Felton and he was great in that game, but I don't care if Melo is in a coma, Felton should not be taking 20+ shots a game when there are Kidd, Chandler, JR and Novak on the floor ready for the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 It was definitely borderline and a lesser player probably gets called for a flagrant there - even more so if it was one of the league darlings like LeBron or Durant on the receiving end. Not to sound like a whiner, but for a player of his caliber, Melo doesn't get calls - at least not to the level of his peers. How on Earth was that dunk on Jordan Hill in the 1Q not an and-1? I thought it was just a hard foul to be honest. One arm is definitely playing the ball and I can't say I'm salty about the dude using his body like that. If Chandler did the same thing I'd be cheering it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 I like Felton and he was great in that game, but I don't care if Melo is in a coma, Felton should not be taking 20+ shots a game when there are Kidd, Chandler, JR and Novak on the floor ready for the pass. Chill Nasty Nate, was just breaking balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I thought it was just a hard foul to be honest. One arm is definitely playing the ball and I can't say I'm salty about the dude using his body like that. If Chandler did the same thing I'd be cheering it on. Personally, I don't think he made that much of a play for the ball and really just bodied him up... given my affinity for the "no-layup rule", I'm not going to get worked up about it, but like I said, I thought it was a borderline flagrant, especially considering how the game had gone to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Personally, I don't think he made that much of a play for the ball and really just bodied him up... given my affinity for the "no-layup rule", I'm not going to get worked up about it, but like I said, I thought it was a borderline flagrant, especially considering how the game had gone to that point. I've been wanting the Knicks to go back to the Oakley and Mason "no-lyaup-rule" era for a bit now, so like you said, it's hard to get mad about the no-call in itself, but what bothers me is the inconsistency to which they call games. A flagrant foul today is obviously different than it was 15 years ago, but the consistency of calling a game shouldn't change. It's not even just the consistency from game to game that's annoying, it's on both ends of the court. I think that's what upsets Melo and those guys more, as you see them get hacked at the rim for a no-call, only to get called for an offensive foul for clearing a guy out on the other end. That's what gets him and felton out of the game moreso than the no-calls, but fortunately it seems they learned from the Memphis meltdown a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yeah, that Miami game was brutal. lol - you are the ultimate Knicks defender. No doubt about it. He was great that game. Hands down his best game of the year but every time I've watched and seen Melo not on the floor but Felton is, he's looking for his shot. And thats just not what I want on this team with who he's got surrounding him. I agree with SMC, he shouldnt be shooting 20+ times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 lol - you are the ultimate Knicks defender. No doubt about it. He was great that game. Hands down his best game of the year but every time I've watched and seen Melo not on the floor but Felton is, he's looking for his shot. And thats just not what I want on this team with who he's got surrounding him. I agree with SMC, he shouldnt be shooting 20+ times. It's not that I'm defensive about it, it's just that if you need to have a few Starks moments after showing up Lebron, go right ahead. As long as it's not Game 7 levels of sh*t, I'm cool with that. Breaking Haslem's ankles earned you a few stupid decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 It's not that I'm defensive about it, it's just that if you need to have a few Starks moments after showing up Lebron, go right ahead. As long as it's not Game 7 levels of sh*t, I'm cool with that. Breaking Haslem's ankles earned you a few stupid decisions. Haha - good point. They are winning so its not hurting the team, but I could see that being an issue if the wrong combination of players are injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yeah, I'm not going to kill the guy, but I'm getting kinda tired of yelling at the TV screen in the 4th quarter: FELTON, PASS THE ****ING BALL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 lol - you are the ultimate Knicks defender. No doubt about it. He was great that game. Hands down his best game of the year but every time I've watched and seen Melo not on the floor but Felton is, he's looking for his shot. And thats just not what I want on this team with who he's got surrounding him. I agree with SMC, he shouldnt be shooting 20+ times. I can take games like last night where he is missing a ton at the rim, because without Melo on the floor, it's his penetration that sets up the entire offense. Without him getting into the lane, there'd be minimal open looks and we'd be taking a bunch of contested jump shots. It's not so much his volume of shooting that bothers me, it's more his timing; when we're down two scores and Melo and JR have made the last 5, there's no reason those two shouldn't be taking that shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I can take games like last night where he is missing a ton at the rim, because without Melo on the floor, it's his penetration that sets up the entire offense. Without him getting into the lane, there'd be minimal open looks and we'd be taking a bunch of contested jump shots. It's not so much his volume of shooting that bothers me, it's more his timing; when we're down two scores and Melo and JR have made the last 5, there's no reason those two shouldn't be taking that shot. I have no complaint about Felton taking it to rim. I want him taking it to rim. I just want him to finish the shot. He blew about 4 layups yesterday. And completely agree on the timing issue. That's what killed them in the 1st Nets game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 First, I hope this isn't a usual Knicks injury report (or maybe that's only with STAT and Lin?), but Melo is questionable for Saturday and will play Monday according to reports. If that's the case, Melo & Knicks got lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 So Stat for Love in in 2014 would totally be something Minny might sign on for right? That would be an epic salary dump for them and with that interview he gave this week it doesn't sound like he'll be interested in sticking around there long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 So Stat for Love in in 2014 would totally be something Minny might sign on for right? That would be an epic salary dump for them and with that interview he gave this week it doesn't sound like he'll be interested in sticking around there long term. That only gives Minny 1 season of cap savings, though, since Love's contract expires the year after STAT, but Love is getting paid far less per year than STAT, $7 million less per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 That only gives Minny 1 season of cap savings, though, since Love's contract expires the year after STAT, but Love is getting paid far less per year than STAT, $7 million less per year. Savings over the long term I mean. It's going to cost $20+ per to keep him around when his deal expires and that's probably not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 this is a coaching game woodson has been awesome lets see if he can prevent the flat game vs the weaklings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Close at halftime, but hopefully they can pull away in 2nd half. Kidd, Felton and Smith shooting poorly. Knicks need to do layup drills. Felton blows so many layups, now Smith doing it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 Chandler is the greatest FA signing this organization has ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Chandler is the greatest FA signing this organization has ever had. This. I was worried about the Cavs with Melo out because of Irving. Melo is the best player on the court at all times except when facing Miami and OKC. Tonight it was Irving and he nearly stole a road victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 This. I was worried about the Cavs with Melo out because of Irving. Melo is the best player on the court at all times except when facing Miami and OKC. Tonight it was Irving and he nearly stole a road victory. That's how Jersey boys do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Chandler is the greatest FA signing this organization has ever had. That's a whole lotta praise for a pumped-up Drew Gooden. Oh, and still perfect at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 this is a coaching game woodson has been awesome lets see if he can prevent the flat game vs the weaklings He keeps pulling all the right strings; case in point, giving Copeland his first career start and first playing time in four games. I love everything Woodson is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 He keeps pulling all the right strings; case in point, giving Copeland his first career start and first playing time in four games. I love everything Woodson is doing. CAA SCHILL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Kyrie is an absolute superstar and he's not even 21 yet, easy top 5 pg in my mind. Every time I watch this kid play and see the development of Thompson, Waiters (when he's healthy) and Zeller, I just can't stop thinking of Lebron going back there once his contract expires from Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Kidd (last night excepted) and Chandler (last night especially) are playing absolutely amazing and it's covering for a lot of bad play and bad decisions. http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/nyk?direction=desc&sort=minutes Pretty much says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I think you could make a case Kidd is a top 15 player of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Kidd (last night excepted) and Chandler (last night especially) are playing absolutely amazing and it's covering for a lot of bad play and bad decisions. http://www.thenbagee...sc&sort=minutes Pretty much says it all. While I agree that Chandler and Kidd are playing at an extremely high level, I personally do not like Berri's take on it as he seems to do things solely to contradict or counter Hollinger. I completely disagree with his premise, which is the foundation of his formula, that states a rebound is just as valuable as a steal and a missed shot is just as detrimental as a turnover. Ie. overvaluates the individual rebounders and overpenalizes the individual player who misses shots. I disagree with them for a number of reasons, but one need not look any further than the fact that a missed shot can be rebounded, while a turnover cannot and a defensive rebounding is not changing changing possession of the ball prior to a shot, but the mere culmination of a missed shot. Berri's formula I do give some credit to as it shows Kidd, who doesn't take many shots to begin with, thus doesn't miss too many, to be the real star that he is, where Hollinger's never really gave him the high rankings I feel he deserved. That having been said, overall I feel Hollinger's work is much more soundly based. That and I'm sorry, but there's simply no way Melo is hurting his team by being out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 Kidd (last night excepted) and Chandler (last night especially) are playing absolutely amazing and it's covering for a lot of bad play and bad decisions. http://www.thenbagee...sc&sort=minutes Pretty much says it all. That's one heck of an argument. So you're saying that really good players cover up for players that aren't as good as them on basketball rosters? You're crazy. You're crazy man. I like you, but you're crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 Berri's formula I do give some credit to as it shows Kidd, who doesn't take many shots to begin with, thus doesn't miss too many, to be the real star that he is, where Hollinger's never really gave him the high rankings I feel he deserved. That having been said, overall I feel Hollinger's work is much more soundly based. That and I'm sorry, but there's simply no way Melo is hurting his team by being out there. I actually think BBR's is more reliable. NBA Geek is going to favor Chandler over Melo in their measurements because they favor centers heavily in the way they weight it, and slightly for PGs. Melo has always been one of the outliers that seems to fall victim to the error terms, and there's been some really odd ones. I remember they had Kris Humphries over every single Bull in 2010-11, including Rose who won MVP that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I actually think BBR's is more reliable. NBA Geek is going to favor Chandler over Melo in their measurements because they favor centers heavily in the way they weight it, and slightly for PGs. Melo has always been one of the outliers that seems to fall victim to the error terms, and there's been some really odd ones. I remember they had Kris Humphries over every single Bull in 2010-11, including Rose who won MVP that year. Yea, Berri's formula works well in the aggregate, but it does throw things way out of whack when you take it to the individual level, which is where you get those Humphrey outliers. But there's not many people, like yourself, who are capable of looking at the formula and seeing the possible errors and outliers, as all the formulas have them: like Hollinger having David Robinson rated above just about every center ever. I'll have to look more at The Geek and compare it to Hollinger's work and some others, as admittedly I haven't looked at it too much besides his formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 That's one heck of an argument. So you're saying that really good players cover up for players that aren't as good as them on basketball rosters? You're crazy. You're crazy man. I like you, but you're crazy. I guess it doesn't say it all to everyone. Mostly what I'm getting at is that even though Chandler and Kidd aren't going to maintain their current pace (I mean, just by definition; they're 1-2 in the league in WP48 right now), there's enough room for improvement in terms of playing time allocation that this team can get significantly better anyway. You can pretty much figure out which of those are going to happen and which aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 I guess it doesn't say it all to everyone. Mostly what I'm getting at is that even though Chandler and Kidd aren't going to maintain their current pace (I mean, just by definition; they're 1-2 in the league in WP48 right now), there's enough room for improvement in terms of playing time allocation that this team can get significantly better anyway. You can pretty much figure out which of those are going to happen and which aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 NBA Geek is going to favor Chandler over Melo in their measurements because they favor centers heavily in the way they weight it WP48 weighs Chandler over Melo because Melo takes lots of bad shots and Chandler never takes any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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