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Official 2012-2013 New York Knicks Thread


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Well since nobody else was willing to do it...

Tyson Chandler is not now, nor has he ever been, a pumped up Drew Gooden. I was wrong.

Looked a lot like Melo's Denver teams always looked in the playoffs. Melo looks good, and his teammates looking like they were confused when they got the chance to shoot. Then when Melo hit a cold spe

Dont get all the Knicks hate. Basically they have hit a wall. It happens in the NBA. The Knicks had to give up many pieces for Melo. They replaced them with a bunch of older hope for the best players and unfortunately it hasnt worked. They needed Smith to have a good series and he didnt. Its tough to play when a portion of your team plays no offense and another portion plays no defense. The coach probably should have decided to go with the more offensive unit when things started to go south, but that probably would not have made a difference. Kidd and Chandler essentially dont need to be guarded right now and with Smith not hitting anything its basically Melo and nobody else. Chandler also isnt right physically and hes not able to alter anything when the guys get beat up top off the dribble. 

 

I think when you come across these tough nasty teams like the Pacers the lack of playoff experience shows. I know that many have had playoff success in the past but as a collective group these guys have not. It clearly hurt the Nets in their series as they would have beaten the Bulls if they had that experience before. If the Knicks lose the series you just build from here. Its not like they were beating the Heat anyway. Changes were going to have to be made to the bench regardless. 

Add back those pieces, may be Lee, may be Lin. It's a team that probably is not a regular season  #2 seed, but is certainly a better more dynamc team in the playoffs.This is what Walsh tried to tell Dolan trying to convince him not to make the trade. This is why Walsh is not here.  

 

Again though you cannot bitch about Chanlder, Kidd, Amare and the various geriatrics on this team breaking down. That was a given. Thye knew it on opening night.

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Of course Melo isn't a facilitor, Matt. He's a SF playing PF. He's not a PG. LeBron is a freak of nature but somehow every F has to play like him. It's absurd.

No, JiF, its not spot on. The supporting cast falls apart and you use it as an excuse to baselessly attack Melo. And, no, he's not a loafer on D. If he was, how is he leading the team in rebounding or close to it in the series?

And last, leave it to Jason to drop knowledge again. JiF should take lessons. LOL.

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But, Bugg, Lin was a Grunwald signing, not Walsh. And Lin has proved himself worthless in postseason. Lee is an interesting proposition, but he let go in the hopes of getting LeBron.

As to what the Knicks gave up for Melo, guys have to realize it wad only for 1 starter: Galinari. Wilson Chandler is a JAG coming off the bench and Mosgov never plays. I can't see how those players help the Knicks now.

Again, it goes back to losing the 2d option in Amare early. JR was never meant to be Melo's Robin.

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Of course Melo isn't a facilitor, Matt. He's a SF playing PF. He's not a PG. LeBron is a freak of nature but somehow every F has to play like him. It's absurd.

No, JiF, its not spot on. The supporting cast falls apart and you use it as an excuse to baselessly attack Melo. And, no, he's not a loafer on D. If he was, how is he leading the team in rebounding or close to it in the series?

And last, leave it to Jason to drop knowledge again. JiF should take lessons. LOL.

 

Melo holds the ball for too long and takes a ton of bad shots. He's the only guy who's considered a star in this league that's allowed to do that without filling out any of the other stat categories.

 

Hell, look at Paul George's game last night.

Edited by Matt39
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Melo and JR have been absolutely infuriating, even in the wins this series.  They are just literally offense killers.  Chuckers.  Never seen a shot they dont like.  Have zero ability to get anyone else involved.  Even if they do win this series, they're done.  You cant win with an offense like this in a 7 game series against a good opponent...and Boston sucks!, so yeah, not sure what needs to be done.

 

It will be cool to see the Knicks finally win a playoff series again if they can close this one out, but even if they do, they aint winning another series.  

 

 

Playoff basketball isnt comparable to the regular season.  Its a totally different animal in a 7 game series.  

 

I understand their role in the offense and its always been a concern of mine that you cant win with what they do.  

 

Im not sure they win this series the way they are playing, so no, I dont have confidence they can beat any team in a 7 game series right now. 

 

Before you call me a cockroach, lol, and a douche - this was what I posted during the Boston series.

 

where were the cockroaches after game 2 ?  nothing brings out the douches like a loss

 

the 2013 knicks.  still better than the nyets

 

I'm just a frustrated fan, like you, but in my opinion what I'm saying is reality, it sucks, but it is what it is.

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Of course Melo isn't a facilitor, Matt. He's a SF playing PF. He's not a PG. LeBron is a freak of nature but somehow every F has to play like him. It's absurd.

No, JiF, its not spot on. The supporting cast falls apart and you use it as an excuse to baselessly attack Melo. And, no, he's not a loafer on D. If he was, how is he leading the team in rebounding or close to it in the series?

And last, leave it to Jason to drop knowledge again. JiF should take lessons. LOL.

 

Baseless?  I've got 10 years of proof watching him lose in the playoffs.  Its all there.  He's won 3 playoff series in his career and he's never missed the playoffs.

 

I've been pretty vocal since we signed Melo about my concerns with his game.  Dont you remember the RJF thingy?  He stopped talking to me because of it.  Getting rebounds, doesnt mean you play great D.  He's a loafer and was letting George fly by him all game long.  How you're arguing differently is shocking.

 

What did Jason say thats so profound? They hit a wall.  lol  Thats dropping knowledge?  okay.  

 

I'm sorry to hurt your feelings about Melo.  But I'm watching and I see what he brings to the table and its nothing, outside of scoring, which only happens because he shoots the ball a sh*t ton. 

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Don't worry, JiF, continue your schizophrenic troll job. You have until tomorrow and if they win you'll disappear until Saturday. :D

And, no, you dont speak reality. You speak your own delusion of it.

And Matt, Melo has passed the ball this series. Unfortunately his teammates are bricking shots. Freekin Tyson can't even complete a perfect alley oop last night as an example. LeBron couldn't win with so many teammates playing like sh*t.

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Don't worry, JiF, continue your schizophrenic troll job. You have until tomorrow and if they win you'll disappear until Saturday. :biggrin:

And, no, you dont speak reality. You speak your own delusion of it.

And Matt, Melo has passed the ball this series. Unfortunately his teammates are bricking shots. Freekin Tyson can't even complete a perfect alley oop last night as an example. LeBron couldn't win with so many teammates playing like sh*t.

 

Okay buddy.  You're right, Melo hasnt been in the league nearly a decade, never missed the playoffs, but only has 3 series wins in his playoff career.  Those are my own delusions, not fact, all part of my schizo.

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Okay buddy.  You're right, Melo hasnt been in the league nearly a decade, never missed the playoffs, but only has 3 series wins in his playoff career.  Those are my own delusions, not fact, all part of my schizo.

Speaking of schizo-while not likely, if Smith and Melo have a mid-season like revival and start dropping their shots, it's plausible the Knicks could still pull this out. But any idea about competing with the Heat are beyond laughable.

 

Smith is probably drunk and/or high off his ass as I type this so it's still unlikely. Don't care about MSG jobs for the family, the Knicks would be insane to re-sign this trainwreck. Short of one of thoseccable show  lottery winner cautionary tales hard to recall anyone taking a torch to this much money so quickly.

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Okay buddy.  You're right, Melo hasnt been in the league nearly a decade, never missed the playoffs, but only has 3 series wins in his playoff career.  Those are my own delusions, not fact, all part of my schizo.

Your delusions are you completely ignoring the fact that Melo has lost to SIX NBA of Conference Champions in that decade you mention and has lost once when he had home court.  At most it would be twice with this series against the Pacers. 

Edited by SMC
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Add back those pieces, may be Lee, may be Lin. It's a team that probably is not a regular season  #2 seed, but is certainly a better more dynamc team in the playoffs.This is what Walsh tried to tell Dolan trying to convince him not to make the trade. This is why Walsh is not here.  

 

Again though you cannot bitch about Chanlder, Kidd, Amare and the various geriatrics on this team breaking down. That was a given. Thye knew it on opening night.

 

Agreed. Basketball is strange game where postseason is far different than regular season. Teams shorten their benches so much in the playoffs that a team like the Knicks is at a disadvantage with the older players and specialists who work in well during the regular season. Its near impossible to rely on one guy in the playoffs, but when you have those decent spare parts it limits the double teams or defensive cheating that you will see on Melo. I still dont think that the series is over but this is why holding off on that trade would have been a better idea unless they were sure the Nets (who were packaging a bag of nothing for him) were going to get him. 

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Your delusions are you completely ignoring the fact that Melo has lost to SIX NBA of Conference Champions in that decade you mention and has lost once when he had home court.  At most it would be twice with this series against the Pacers. 

 

Hahahahahahahahaha - that is so pathetic.  wow

 

OMG, Kevin Durant went 5 for 21 in an elimination game at home!

Durant isnt a facilitator! OKC can never win with him!

/JiF

 

Yeah, okay

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JR is shooting 28% for series, DPOY is getting destroyed by JAG Hibbert, Kidd hasn't scored since April 23, and Woodson benches the teams best facilitor & 2nd best perimeter defender, but I just want to rip Melo 24/7.

/JiF

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GREENBURGH, N.Y. — On the day he inherited the Knicks — the Linsanity, the insanity and the rest of it — Mike Woodson was handed a singular challenge: get Carmelo Anthony to play like Carmelo Anthony. Everything else would fall into place.

At that moment, on March 14, 2012, Woodson was precisely the coach the Knicks needed. He was stern, direct, demanding, with a decidedly paternal touch — as quick with a lecture as with a supportive pat on the back. And, critically, he was not Mike D’Antoni, whose system and coaching style had been rejected by Anthony, the franchise star.

Freed of a coach he did not want, Anthony responded and flourished, and Woodson reaped the benefits. The Knicks won 18 of their final 24 games in the 2011-12 season, earning Woodson universal praise, a 3-year contract and a rollicking honeymoon that unofficially expired Tuesday night at about 9:30 Eastern.

It ended with the dissonant blare of the final buzzer at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, which was soon followed by the dissonant blare of countless Twitter timelines, bursting with bewilderment and outrage after the Knicks’ 93-82 loss to the Indiana Pacers.

The Knicks are facing a daunting 3-1 deficit in their Eastern Conference semifinal series. And Woodson is facing blistering criticism, for the first time since he assumed the job 14 months ago.

Across fan forums and blogs, the questions were the same Tuesday night:

 

¶ Why would Woodson abandon the small-ball lineup that got the Knicks this far?

¶ How did Pablo Prigioni go from invaluable starter to four-minute reserve?

¶ With the offense wilting for two weeks, why did it take so long to use Chris Copeland?

¶ Why was Copeland benched right after he made a 3-pointer that cut the deficit to 10 points in the fourth quarter?

And what in the blazes is Jason Kidd still doing on the court after missing every shot he has taken in the last eight games?

 

“Blame it on me,” Woodson said Wednesday afternoon, in an attempt to deflect blame from J. R. Smith, who volunteered to take the heat a night earlier.

The statement was classic Woodson, an old-school coach who prefers that all criticism and praise be distributed equally across the bench. It is a page ripped from the handbook of his mentor, Larry Brown, who in times of trouble is fond of saying, “I got to coach them better.”

If the Knicks fail to make the Eastern Conference finals, as it appears they will, there will be no shortage of worthy scapegoats.

Anthony, presumed to be the N.B.A.’s best scorer, has converted only 40.9 percent of his field-goal attempts in this series but is still stubbornly dominating the offense, using 36.2 percent of the team’s possessions. Smith is shooting a ghastly 28.1 percent, making a mockery of his Sixth Man of the Year award. Tyson Chandler has been outworked by Roy Hibbert. Kidd is scoreless for the series.

The Knicks’ once-fearsome offense is producing only 97.3 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs — a mark that would have ranked last in the regular season.

The Knicks insist they are missing shots that they normally make, but the truth is they are finding few quality shots against Indiana’s disciplined defense. Anthony has been blanketed by Paul George, whose ability to guard him one-on-one has allowed the Pacers to avoid double-teaming, thus leaving few openings to drive or shoot.

The Knicks won 54 games this season on the strength of their offense and were at their most dominant when the ball was moving, the floor was spaced, and Anthony and Smith were alternating good shots with smart passes. That identity has been lost, and Woodson has failed to do anything to restore it.

Instead, Woodson went the opposite direction in Game 4 on Tuesday. He abandoned the small lineup that gave the Knicks their edge. He started Kenyon Martin, a defensive-minded enforcer, in a failed attempt to counter the Pacers’ size. He benched Prigioni, whose passing skills had been critical to the Knicks’ offensive rhythm for two months. (Prigioni has the best plus-minus rating of any Knicks starter in the playoffs.)

Though the Knicks quickly fell behind by double digits, Woodson stuck with the big lineup for most of the night, thoroughly revamping his rotation in the 90th game of the season.

Amar’e Stoudemire started the fourth quarter, despite recently returning from a two-month layoff after knee surgery. It was a bewildering move on many levels, but Woodson stood by it.

“That didn’t hurt us,” Woodson said. “Last I checked, we won the third and fourth. It was a tie, I think, in the fourth quarter.”

The Knicks opened the fourth trailing by 11 points. By the time Stoudemire checked out, the deficit was 17.

Woodson was as strident in addressing his loyalty to the 40-year-old Kidd, saying, “I’ll never kick J-Kidd to the curb.”

Although he declined to explain Prigioni’s reduced role, Woodson said he was “contemplating” a return to the small lineup, acknowledging, “That lineup has been great for us for two, three months, and I went away from it.”

Woodson has indisputably been a net positive for the Knicks, corralling a locker room of volatile characters and disparate talents and presiding over the franchise’s best season in more than a decade. His failures in this series threaten to overshadow it all.

On Wednesday, Woodson abruptly canceled his weekly radio spot with ESPN’s New York affiliate — a first this season. If the Knicks falter again Thursday night at Madison Square Garden, there will be no escaping the backlash.

“Blame it on me,” Woodson said. As if the city needs any encouragement.

Edited by Matt39
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Waaaawaaa - Melo only losses to champions, his supporting cast isnt playing well, his coaches are dumb, its everyone's fault but his!!!!!!!!!!!

 

hahahahaha

 

I'm back to blaming the owner, I can't say GM cause Donny Walsh's hand was forced. Melo isn't a different player now than Denver, where it took Chauncey Billups playing like an MVP to win a playoff series and Woodson isn't a different coach than the guy that tried to run the same crappy Iso offense through Joe Johnson and couldn't win anything in Atlanta. The whole thing is flawed and we're stuck with this group, Camby is going to make 4 million for Woodson to stare at him on the bench next year for ****s sake.

Edited by SayNoToDMC
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Waaaawaaa - Melo only losses to champions, his supporting cast isnt playing well, his coaches are dumb, its everyone's fault but his!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahaha

Crying doesn't become you.
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I'm back to blaming the owner, I can't say GM cause Donny Walsh's hand was forced. Melo isn't a different player now than Denver, where it took Chauncey Billups playing like an MVP to win a playoff series and Woodson isn't a different coach than the guy that tried to run the same crappy Iso offense through Joe Johnson and couldn't win anything in Atlanta. The whole thing is flawed and we're stuck with this group, Camby is going to make 4 million for Woodson to stare at him on the bench next year for ****s sake.

 

Every single one of my Knicks arguments centers around Dolan. He's the biggest issue. His arena is full, the team has a marketable star. He's happy.

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oh the hiliarity of the melo haters vs melo lovers...the truth is somewhere in the middle...its comical how SMC can claim the haters are trolls but his blind melo love and over the top homerism are the exact same thing.  This coming from the same dude that argued earlier this year that Chandler was a borderling HOFer, but now the knicks sucking is his fault, and JR and the coach but Melo gets a pass (pun intended)  Jason drops knowledge (because his viewpoint happens to agree with his) Wondering if SMC will become a Heat fan, since he is known to flip flop.

 

Lets look at facts this team won 54 games, second best team in the East, home court vs anyone except Miami.  This team should win this series.  If they do not it is bad job by everyone, coach and players including Melo.

 

Tyson Chandler has been horrible, JR Smith the same.  Woodson has made terrible substitutions all series, and people want to get on Amare for the 5 mins he plays?  Please.  Kidd is useless, and yes Carmelo Anthony has not played well either.  He is not the main reason they are losing this series but he is not devout of criticism.

 

We do not truly know if you can build a championship team around Melo, but here is what we do know.  He has always been criticized (not by just fans) but other players, coaches and even his own GM Donnie Walsh, for never being in shape (took him 8 years and Olympics revelation) to get into shape.  He is not a willing passer and the idea that he plays defense is laughable.  Yes when he commits to play defense, he has shown he can defend, but he does not play defense consistently.  He sill has immature scratch your head moments like what happened with KG earlier this year, something you can see a 2nd or 3rd year player falling for but not someone who is "superstar" in his 8th or 9th year.  Couple that with moments like how he put his health at risk by coming back to play in Denver only to tweak his knee again, clearly he didnt care about any risk he wanted to stick it to Denver and luckily he did not make his knee worse.  

 

I am not going to say you cannot build a championship team with him as your number 1, but he still has flaws in his game which should of been corrected/worked on in his 2nd, 3rd, 4th year etc.  He probably has pound for pound the best offensive game in the league but he has never shown the ability to be a leader.  Yes there is a melo haters camp but there is also the opposite as well.

 

And yes Dolan sucks.

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LOL, gqx, losing really brings out the underbrush.

Tyson having an awful series has nothing to do with my earlier conditional comments. If you weren't prone to being so disingenuous you'd acknowledge that.

And for supposed flip flop, I traded up in NY after slumming for awhile. Thats a far cry from folks like ECURB.

As to the rest, tl;dr. Now go back into your hole.

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