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Official 2012-2013 New York Knicks Thread

RutgersJetFan

By RutgersJetFan
in Other Sports

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

Posted
Posted

I too recall when Michael Jordan, ten years into his career, with three titles and three MVP's, was criticized for not being a guy you could win with.

 

They were still saying it when Jordan was 27.  Right up until they put away Clyde the Glide and Buck Williams.  Anthony is 28 and that was Jordan.  

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SMC

SMC

Posted
Posted

I too recall when Michael Jordan, ten years into his career, with three titles and three MVP's, was criticized for not being a guy you could win with.

Jordan was older at 10 yrs in than Melo.
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Bugg

Bugg

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http://brandontierney.org/2013/05/21/window-shut/   Window, shut.
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40 more years?

One thing I learned long ago in this business, is that there’s a time to think and there’s a time to vent. At times they intersect, at times it’s a tsunami of misguided and entertaining rage, and every once in a while, simply stated, it’s absolutely perfect. Every syllable flows, every word resonates. It’s a verbal barrage with many twists and turns, and despite its unpredictable and fast-paced rhythm, you, the audience, is along for the ride, nodding in agreement, punctuating points with fists or characters on Twitter.

Buckle up, because I’m about to take you on that elusive ride.

First, a general commentary about my beloved New York Knicks. Encompassing 40 mostly pathetic years since their last crown, their road map to success is still written in Latin. Regardless of who they hire, fire, draft, sign or trade for, they are no closer to the secret sauce than some two-bit burger chain trying to take a bite out of McDonalds.

Put it this way: no franchise in NBA history consistently fails their superstars like the boys on 33rd and 7th. Was Bernard King really expected to beat the Celtics with Louis Orr and Rory Sparrow logging major minutes? The only reason they landed Ewing is because they were so pathetic and invisible, the commissioner (allegedly) tossed them a bone, and with good reason. Back then, without the true power of cable and all-access to everything, the NBA was better with New York in the mix. Can we still definitively say that now? It wasn’t so much about Stern helping the Knicks, by the way, as much as it was about lining his own pockets and securing and stabilizing his growing empire. The NBA needed Patrick Ewing playing Broadway, especially following those Big East wars with Mullin and the Johnnies in the mid-80′s. As hot a prospect ever to come out of college, that was # 33.

During Ewing’s prime, it was a rotating cast of aging, fading stars like Kiki Vandeweghe and Ro Blackman or one-dimensional chuckers like Gerald Wilkins and Johnny Newman. They failed Ewing so miserably, it actually hurts to relive his era at times.

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# 33 deserved better.

When they finally stumbled on some legit talent, he was shot, no longer dominant, and eventually, no longer relevant.

Sadly, they are doing the same with Carmelo Anthony, like zombies tracing over the wayward steps of their front-office predecessors.

Because J.R. Smith was so miserable the last few weeks, they’ll probably be able to retain his services. Like many, I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Truthfully, at $5-7 million per season, coupled with age and talent, it’s a deal I would sign off on, but I would do so out of sheer desperation. I will never, ever trust him again. Ever.

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Can’t reverse karma.

Yet, as maddening as he was during the tale end of the Boston series and the entire Pacers series, imagine the Knicks without Smith this past season. 39, 40 wins?

Incredibly, they signed off on 3-year deals for both Jason Kidd AND Marcus Camby, further limiting their options this summer and beyond. While both deals were relatively cheap, combined, they could equal one player good enough, or specifically, tough enough, to theoretically put them in the Eastern Conference Finals next season. I mean, was that “plan” concocted over bong hits and shots of Grey Goose? Who the heck would, in a balanced state…forget it. The stupidity is obvious, so I’ll summarize it this way: J Kidd, start working on your Hall of Fame speech now. It’s over. It got beyond ugly. Time to hang ‘em up bro.

I don’t care what you read this summer about “how healthy he is” and “how good he looks,” it’s destined to be another season of intermittent surgeries for Amar’e Stoudemire, trying to figure out where or if he fits when he’s once again shoved back into the rotation. He’s due $21.6 next year and $23.4 in 2014-15. Those guys don’t sit forever. Kind of sad, because I really like Amar’e. One look at his body, and it’s obvious that he has pride and cares about his craft. He added some post moves this summer after spending time with Hakeem Olajuwon, more evidence that he’s willing to reinvent his game, even with veteran status and a bank account that resembles Fort Knox. Tremendous respect for the former All-Star, but when the body goes, it goes. This train has left station, sadly. It’s over.

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Can’t fault the effort.

As for Tyson Chandler, I am trying to balance my healthy respect for his passion for the game and leadership skills and the injuries that basically transformed him into a skinny Eddy Curry the past few weeks: no defense, no rebounding. To be fair, at least Eddy had an offensive move or two. He was a threat. Chandler couldn’t stick a 15-foot jumper if we spotted him 12 feet. He is a complete zero on offense, not a single post move, which just amplifies the strong undercurrent that will slowly swallow this version of the Knicks up for good. Too often, the Knicks play 4-on-5, and unless you’re playing the Bobcats 82 times, that’s not going to work.

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Thoroughly schooled.

I like Ray Felton, but I like Felton for exactly what he is: a slightly above-average NBA lead guard, nothing more. He plays hard, and seems to hate losing, so he can play on my team any day, but he’s hit his ceiling and at this point, isn’t going to get better. Trust me.

By overpaying for Steve Novak, the Knicks are in a position to possibly have someone swipe Chris Copeland’s services right under their noses. This kid can obviously shoot, but more importantly, he’s willing to shoot when it matters, when the season is on the line. Can’t say the same for Novak. Either Cope signs elsewhere and the Knicks are stuck with Novak’s limited game, or they retain Cope and have more money wasting away on the end of the bench in Novak. Either way, they’re kind of screwed.

Let’s talk about the coach, Mike Woodson. Average. Limited. Actually, in big games, completely overmatched. Not only will he not elevate this team to a championship, but I submit that he actually does the opposite: he retards the progress of his team. How are we able to identify from our recliners such obvious substitution patterns, like pulling Kidd and playing Prigioni, pulling Smith and playing Cope, pulling Chandler and playing anyone, but the head coach cannot?

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Seems like a nice guy, but nice guys win nothing in this league, not coaches anyway. You want me to stop beating around the bush? How’s this: I simply do not believe in him at all, and that will never change. The man was eaten alive in the 2nd Round of the Playoffs, what the heck would happen in the NBA Finals? Quite possibly, the worst coaching job I have ever witnessed in a playoff series, and I’ve been watching the league intently for a long, long time.

This brings us to Carmelo Anthony. Even with his 4th quarter follies throughout the playoffs, I still support ‘Melo. His tantalizing offensive gifts, if paired with the right superstar, eventually, it should lead to chip, no? He beats you off the dribble, his midrange game is unstoppable, he has effective 3-point range and he gets to the stripe with great frequency. He’s mauled by 2,3 Celtics or Pacers, and after he fixes his headband, heads to the line, undeterred. Carmelo Anthony is both street tough and physically strong, and while it’s easy to blame the man with the biggest target and contract, I don’t believe that is fair nor is it accurate.

roy-hibbert-blocks-carmelo-anthony-570x9

STONED!

However, with ‘Melo, it’s less about tangible skills and more about things far tougher to quantify, like leadership or the way he relates to the rest of the guys on the roster, on the floor.

As much as I’ve defended Anthony, something I read this morning stopped me dead in my tracks, and forced me to reevaluate things.

“We kinda teased the city of New York a little bit, because now everybody expects us to play at this level, this high level.”

High level? What?

Your team was punked by a bunch of kids in Indianapolis. PUNKED.

Imagine Jordan or Bird or Magic or Kobe or Lebron or Duncan saying that?

Along with the rest of hoops-starved New York, not to mention the rest of the NBA community, I just finished watching a 6 game , lopsided steel cage match. Rather than bleeding and fighting and punching and kicking your way to the Conference Finals, your team crawled out of the ring and meekly into the offseason. Your were pounded on the boards every game, and shot as accurately as a collection of 7th grade CYO players.

That quote, the strong inference that for Anthony and the collective effort against Indiana remotely resembled anything any player should be proud of, that stopped me dead in my tracks. It really made me think.

Sure, Carmelo Anthony wants to win a title, I don’t doubt that. What I do doubt, is his ability to lead any team over the requisite two-month journey of EFFICIENT basketball it takes to actually secure that lofty status.

Yes, the Knicks failed Carmelo Anthony, just like they failed Ewing and King earlier. They continue to talk a big game, until things go awry. Then they pull their head coach of off radio shows and act totally unprofessional.

As good as Anthony is, he’s not good enough to reverse 40 years of empty promises.

As much as I love the Knicks, I have to admit: it’s hard to like the Knicks.

Window, shut.

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jason423

jason423

Posted
Posted

Ewing was my favorite Knick before Melo, but they ultimately lost in 1994 because Dream outplayed him.

 

Im not sure if Id say that was the reason unless you mean the Ewing no show in game 6 offensively (which it was) cost them the series. I thought that was a series where the Knicks wore down.It was kind of strange one in that the Knicks had 4 guys that were all going like 40+ each game while the Rockets used their bench more to keep the secondary guys fresh. Ewing and Starks were worn out by the end of that series and it was made worse by the fact that the Knicks went deep each round going 7 games against both the Pacers and the Bulls while the Rockets only went 7 against the Suns but had a great matchup edge with the Jazz where they steamrolled Utah. 

 

Ewing was probably the better rebounder and maybe shot blocker that series but he was so non-aggressive on the offensive end and at times just looked clumsy stumbling around around the basket. Olajuwon murdered the Knicks at the line while Ewing never went there. The Dream had his share of bad shooting nights but he would still put up points because he was getting fouled. Olajuwon was the better passer and when Mad Maxx went off in game 7 that was really the difference in that one. Still I dont think Id blame Ewing for the loss of that series. The infamous finger roll against the Pacers was all Ewing but I always thought 94 was about being gassed from the schedule and lack of another decent offensive option.  Ewing was never as good as the Dream anyway I just think people never really realized on the East coast how awesome the two centers were out West 

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SayNoToDMC

SayNoToDMC

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Im not sure if Id say that was the reason unless you mean the Ewing no show in game 6 offensively (which it was) cost them the series. I thought that was a series where the Knicks wore down.It was kind of strange one in that the Knicks had 4 guys that were all going like 40+ each game while the Rockets used their bench more to keep the secondary guys fresh. Ewing and Starks were worn out by the end of that series and it was made worse by the fact that the Knicks went deep each round going 7 games against both the Pacers and the Bulls while the Rockets only went 7 against the Suns but had a great matchup edge with the Jazz where they steamrolled Utah.

Ewing was probably the better rebounder and maybe shot blocker that series but he was so non-aggressive on the offensive end and at times just looked clumsy stumbling around around the basket. Olajuwon murdered the Knicks at the line while Ewing never went there. The Dream had his share of bad shooting nights but he would still put up points because he was getting fouled. Olajuwon was the better passer and when Mad Maxx went off in game 7 that was really the difference in that one. Still I dont think Id blame Ewing for the loss of that series. The infamous finger roll against the Pacers was all Ewing but I always thought 94 was about being gassed from the schedule and lack of another decent offensive option. Ewing was never as good as the Dream anyway I just think people never really realized on the East coast how awesome the two centers were out West

You piss me off sometimes because you seem to feel the need to articulate or actually express thoughts coherently. This is a message board, theres no place for that here

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SMC

SMC

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Great points Jason. I dont hate on Ewing because of it, just an acknowledgment that it was the one matchup they lost. If Ewing matched the Dream they wouldve won. The Finger Role altered my whole outlook on fandom. I needed to cleanse myself after that.

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SayNoToDMC

SayNoToDMC

Posted
Posted

Jackson Laughed When Informed Of Lakers' Decision To Hire D'Antoni

May 22, 2013 1:30 PM EDT


Jackson_Phil_lal_130515.jpg


When Phil Jackson received a phone call from Mitch Kupchak late on
Sunday, Nov. 11 that the Los Angeles Lakers had decided to hire Mike
D'Antoni to replace Mike Brown as head coach, he had an amused reaction.


"I laughed," Jackson said on Wednesday. "It was humorous to me
when Mitch said that we think that Mike is a better coach for this group
of guys."


Jackson had been prepared to tell Kupchak that he was interested in coaching the Lakers again.


Jackson believes the move to hire D'Antoni was made to cater to Steve Nash.


"I think it didn't happen because there was some concern how are we
going to move in the right direction for this ballclub," Jackson said.
"When Mitch gave me the call close to midnight on Sunday night right
before I was going to give them an answer Monday morning and said,
'We've made a choice. We're going to hire Mike D'Antoni. We think he's
the best coach for this group of guys.' My answer was, 'For Steve Nash,
yes, I agree but for Dwight Howard, I'm not so sure.'

"In the
process of thinking about how they could best use the team I think they
thought first and foremost about Steve Nash and how Steve Nash was going
to fit inside of an offensive system that I coach. ... I think that was
a concern for them."


Jackson felt that his system would have allowed Pau Gasol and Howard
to have a similar type of success as Gasol and Andrew Bynum.


Jackson claims to not be interested in coaching, but does seek a front office position in the NBA.


"I don't see myself coaching again, I really don't," Jackson
said. "When I discussed this with Jeanie Buss, she said make sure you
tell them that Jeanie still thinks you can coach even though you might
say you're not going to coach again. Jeanie still thinks I can coach but
I'm not going to go there."

 

 

 

I just laughed when I saw this. I think we can all at least agree to be happy Dantoni is gone. I love hearing Phil Jackson had the same reaction to this as me

 

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227792/Jackson-Laughed-When-Informed-Of-Lakers-Decision-To-Hire-DAntoni

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

Posted
Posted

Knicks' fans, Nets' fans can chime in as well I suppose, would you feel any better about the Pacers' loss if they go on to win it all? Not in any way a reaction to how they're playing Miami right now, just curious. Yes, any loss sucks, but would it lessen the sting if you knew you lost to the NBA Championship team?  If we went to the ECFs and loss to Miami, people would consider the season a success, but would we get the same reaction for losing to the eventual champs, if the eventual champs happen to not be the Heat? I've always gone by what my Uncle taught me when I was growing up; if you're gonna lose to someone, let it be to the eventual champs....unless that team is the red sox. Then f*ck em.

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SayNoToDMC

SayNoToDMC

Posted
Posted

Knicks' fans, Nets' fans can chime in as well I suppose, would you feel any better about the Pacers' loss if they go on to win it all? Not in any way a reaction to how they're playing Miami right now, just curious. Yes, any loss sucks, but would it lessen the sting if you knew you lost to the NBA Championship team?  If we went to the ECFs and loss to Miami, people would consider the season a success, but would we get the same reaction for losing to the eventual champs, if the eventual champs happen to not be the Heat? I've always gone by what my Uncle taught me when I was growing up; if you're gonna lose to someone, let it be to the eventual champs....unless that team is the red sox. Then f*ck em.

 

No, I'm not pissed off about losing to a better team which they are. I'm pissed off about how we lost

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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No, I'm not pissed off about losing to a better team which they are. I'm pissed off about how we lost

 

 

I agree, it was just something I was wondering while watching the current game.  To me, it actually bothers me more as I don't mind losing to a better team, which they are, but that's provided we played well, which we didn't.  If we played well and lost, hats off to them, but when you lose in addition to playing poorly, it's always a frustrating what if.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
Posted

Knicks' fans, Nets' fans can chime in as well I suppose, would you feel any better about the Pacers' loss if they go on to win it all? Not in any way a reaction to how they're playing Miami right now, just curious. Yes, any loss sucks, but would it lessen the sting if you knew you lost to the NBA Championship team? If we went to the ECFs and loss to Miami, people would consider the season a success, but would we get the same reaction for losing to the eventual champs, if the eventual champs happen to not be the Heat? I've always gone by what my Uncle taught me when I was growing up; if you're gonna lose to someone, let it be to the eventual champs....unless that team is the red sox. Then f*ck em.

My teams lose too much to make me think about who they're losing to. I'm always more interested in what my sh*tty teams need to do moving forward in order to match up better in the future. When the Nets lost to the Bulls, it was obvious that the Nets need to find tougher front court players, and they need two more shooters to spread the floor. IMO, the challenge for the Knicks is greater because it seems like the parts they have don't really mesh. They need a better PG, they have to figure out what they're doing with Amare, and they have to find young contributors to fill the slots likely vacated by Kurt Thomas, Jason Kidd (who should retire), and Rasheed Wallace. There ended up being a lot of dead weight on that roster at the end of the season. Then you have to get JR Smith to a psychiatrist.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
Posted

In fairness to Vogel, if Hibbert is in the game, whoever he's guarding is going to get an open 15-footer. With no time on the clock, they have to guard against the quick jumper off the inbounds. Going to the cup with 2 seconds is ballsy as f*ck.

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SMC

SMC

Posted
Posted

Vogel and George blew that last possession. You have to keep Hibbert in there. Miami is not a good jump shooting team. And George inexplicably played LeBron to make him drive but with no shot blocker in.

As to Broadways question. Heat were winning anyway. Wouldve been nice to get a shot, but Knicks didnt deserve it with Tyson and Smith playing like utter sh*t.

Last, Ive lost a ton of respect for Tyson. He played like garbage and blamed teammates and coaches and used injury and illness as an excuse. Melo played with a partially torn labrum and still performed.

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Matt39

Matt39

Posted
Posted

Oh and JRs peeps are now using a knee injury as an excuse. **** him. No way they should give that ahole a 4 yr deal

 

*conspiracy alert*

 

Knicks PR team softening the landing for bringing the same core back next year by announcing these injuries. If Melo doesnt get surgery...I'd say its bogus on both accounts.

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