Classic TV vs Reality TV mafia - basic game

[Integrity28]

ok, now I'm having emotional confusion... the **** supervisor got transferred out of my life and I think I'm responsible for that so yay, over ****ing joyed, like... you cannot believe.

on the other hand, guy with a rifle or BB gun.... conflicting stories but everyone else is driving around with .22s now and the cars that were hit are a bit too shattered for bbs... anyway, guy drove through and shot up a bunch of cars and... not good. not handled well, not caught, and feels too much like a trial run cause it was an adult and... we get a lot of threats.

and what does this mean to mafia...

it means I really would enjoy some virtual violence now.

but I have the feeling everyone's gone for the holiday.

crap.

If you want to play mafia, I suggest you start talking more about the game and less about everything else under the sun.

[Integrity28]

I'm here until noon.

Me too, bro-bro... let's do some damage.

[Jetsfan80]

Me too, bro-bro... let's do some damage.

Let's pressure an inactive.

[Leelou]

Someone shot up cars in your lot at work?

[Leelou]

I'm here until noon.

Are you doing an unofficial vote count?

[Jetsfan80]

Are you doing an unofficial vote count?

I will do one for you now.

[Integrity28]

Cindy (1) – I28

I28 (2) – Cindy, SMC

AVM (2) – 80, JiF

Sakaea (1) – Leelou

80 (1) – AVM

JiF (1) – Hatter

So, I voted Cindy and she omgus voted me immediately, then after a while of me pressing her - SMC sweeps in with his over-sell case pitching my town tells as scum tells.

Here is where my head is at... if SMC is scum, he thought I was breadcrumbing Doc, and is scum trying to out/lynch the Doc; OR he is town and paid that Doc stuff no mind and was actually using the back-and-forth with me as a means to get reactions from the rest of the game, which some people like to do here; OR he is town and really thinks I'm scum, and therefore has the worst read on me of anyone who plays here.

Cindy (2) – I28, Hatter

I28 (2) – Cindy, SMC

AVM (2) – 80, JiF

Sakaea (1) – Leelou

80 (1) – AVM

Ishy (1) - Sakaea

Here we see Hatter follow me to Cindy.

Ape tends to do this as both town and scum.......but I like where this is going.

Unvote vote Ape

80 follows SMC to me, hardly an indictment since 80 likes to be haphazard with his votes. A quiet 80 is usually scum or power role. So I see no reason to press him just yet. It will become evident which as the game goes forward.

SMC seems to overexaggerate what he has found. I think I'll trust the Ape on this one, vote SMC

Here Hatter follows me from Cindy to SMC.

Yeah, feel like he's overselling...

Unvote AVM

Vote SMC

So does JIF, the most notoriously gratuitous "get behind the Ape" abuser when he's scum. I've not seen him do any of what he calls scumhunting either, he's just taking a ride on my cases. The more I think about it, his little "I hate when you connect the dots" mock outrage post was the closest thing to a game statement he's made, and it resonates as a statement meant to seed doubt in my alignment, almost so he can turn on me after he follows me on a townie lynch.

Ape just told me in the QT to derail his train by pointing out that the game will die when he does, and to draw attention to a new player. Will do.

Vote Basel.

Disgusting wifom.

I could lynch from this list, I feel all are informative in some regard: SMC, AVM, Hatter, JIF

On the bubble: Ishy, Leelou, Cindy

[Jetsfan80]

Unofficial Day 1 Vote Count

Sakaea (4) – Leelou, AVM, Verbal, 80

SMC (4) – Ape, Sakaea, JiF, Madhatter

Ape (3) – cindy, SMC, Basel

Madhatter (1) - Crusher

Basel (1) – Ishy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

[Integrity28]

Let's pressure an inactive.

I'm fine with this, though what is your context for inactive. Post count doesn't matter, game content does. In that regard, JIF is about as inactive as I can recall ever seeing him on D1. He's playing "get behind the Ape" and the rest is just spam.

There's a part of me that feels low post count people are better left alone on D1. Go after those trying to actively influence a lynch on D1, like SMC for example and his garbage case, and leave the inactives for the investigative role(s) to contend with early on. This way I think you run a lower risk of outing power roles.

[Integrity28]

Unofficial Day 1 Vote Count

Sakaea (4) – Leelou, AVM, Verbal, 80

SMC (4) – Ape, Sakaea, JiF, Madhatter

Ape (3) – Cindy, SMC, Basel

Madhatter (1) - Crusher

Basel (1) – Ishy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Whether I'm right or wrong about SMC, my gut says there's at least one scum on that train with me. Know what I mean?

[cindy]

If you want to play mafia, I suggest you start talking more about the game and less about everything else under the sun.

I know.

but between you and smc, who seem to know what you're talking about... even though its leading... nowhere clear... I don't know what I can add.

I don't think you're scum, you talk too much for someone who's played with you not to have tripped you up... despite his book of ape smc hasn't made a solid case against you that I can see, just... glib.

nor have you made a solid case against him.. or anyone else. just... provocative.

I'm not sure how I feel about lynching ppl just for not posting as much, it seems pointless. they're mostly... no, entirely noobs here... and I know where they come from the mafia doesn't encourage lots of activity so... not sure there's a reasonable way to read that.

the speed lynch thing yesterday I'm real uncomfortable with, but it seemed mainly designed to push ppl to talk and didn't go anywhere. I assume if it was meant to... it would have been pretty easy to push a lynch there.

the other people I don't know welI just can't read. don't know that I can read anyone.

the ppl that I do know... the only one who's talking about the game much is lee... and I don't agree with what she's pushing, lynch the inactive... but I don't know if that means sh*t. it seems to be a popular thing to do here.

hatters continual vote changing is .... I don't know if he's just that easily led and distracted by each ooh, shiny... or trying to push ppl but lacking experience. it doesn't seem well thought out, so... annoying as it is... don't think it's indicative of anything.

so to sum up... I have no idea and nothing I've read... and I've read it all... is giving me a strong feeling about anyone.

now tell me how stupid I am. cause I might not know.

[Jetsfan80]

I'm fine with this, though what is your context for inactive. Post count doesn't matter, game content does. In that regard, JIF is about as inactive as I can recall ever seeing him on D1. He's playing "get behind the Ape" and the rest is just spam.

There's a part of me that feels low post count people are better left alone on D1. Go after those trying to actively influence a lynch on D1, like SMC for example and his garbage case, and leave the inactives for the investigative role(s) to contend with early on. This way I think you run a lower risk of outing power roles.

JiF is literally the worst scum player of all-time. If he's scum he'll telegraph it. I don't see the point in pressuring him. This is similar to the argument you just made for not pressuring me.

[cindy]

Someone shot up cars in your lot at work?

yes. and no security apparently. daylight. freaking the **** out.

but it's not game related, sorry.

[Jetsfan80]

Whether I'm right or wrong about SMC, my gut says there's at least one scum on that train with me. Know what I mean?

Yep. And lo and behold, Sakaea (the inactive I'm voting) is on that train. COINCIDENCE???

[Jetsfan80]

I know.

but between you and smc, who seem to know what you're talking about... even though its leading... nowhere clear... I don't know what I can add.

I don't think you're scum, you talk too much for someone who's played with you not to have tripped you up... despite his book of ape smc hasn't made a solid case against you that I can see, just... glib.

nor have you made a solid case against him.. or anyone else. just... provocative.

I'm not sure how I feel about lynching ppl just for not posting as much, it seems pointless. they're mostly... no, entirely noobs here... and I know where they come from the mafia doesn't encourage lots of activity so... not sure there's a reasonable way to read that.

the speed lynch thing yesterday I'm real uncomfortable with, but it seemed mainly designed to push ppl to talk and didn't go anywhere. I assume if it was meant to... it would have been pretty easy to push a lynch there.

the other people I don't know welI just can't read. don't know that I can read anyone.

the ppl that I do know... the only one who's talking about the game much is lee... and I don't agree with what she's pushing, lynch the inactive... but I don't know if that means sh*t. it seems to be a popular thing to do here.

hatters continual vote changing is .... I don't know if he's just that easily led and distracted by each ooh, shiny... or trying to push ppl but lacking experience. it doesn't seem well thought out, so... annoying as it is... don't think it's indicative of anything.

so to sum up... I have no idea and nothing I've read... and I've read it all... is giving me a strong feeling about anyone.

now tell me how stupid I am. cause I might not know.

OK Lady BG.

Kidding. Good post.

yes. and no security apparently. daylight. freaking the **** out.

but it's not game related, sorry.

Stay safe! People are f***ing crazy.

[Integrity28]

JiF is literally the worst scum player of all-time. If he's scum he'll telegraph it. I don't see the point in pressuring him. This is similar to the argument you just made for not pressuring me.

Bold = true. This is the most pro-town thing you've said all game.

[Jetsfan80]

Bold = true. This is the most pro-town thing you've said all game.

DID WE JUST BECOME BEST FRIENDS?

[cindy]

hatters on that train with you too... and he's not randomly vote changing if apes review is correct.

but isn't that too obvious ?

[The Crusher]

If you want to play mafia, I suggest you start talking more about the game and less about everything else under the sun.

I think her randomness is adorable.

She is one to watch as she gets into the game to see if she is being coached up some.

SMC/Monkey thing is interesting because the whole thing seems pretty average for you day 1. Makes me wonder why someone like SMC who knows damn well how you react to pressure would kick you. Not saying your not scum, no way to know that but your reaction is more what I would expect from you. Outside chance of you two silly bitches playing a gambit. LOL

I was scum with SMC when he decided to make up a PR and he cruised to end game. He is a smart dude. My best theory is maybe he is trying weather test himself as scum. Early heat and pressure sometimes galvanizes scum and they go late into the game. Could even be the GF trying to get looked at.

Leelou doing a very good DanX impression stands out. The old "golly Gee Im not sure." Is she really so excited to play with you guys she does not want to vote you?

I have a busy morning I will be in and out. Should have time to be on for a bit after 1.

unvote

vote SMC

[Verbal]

Do you really think Kate will have you?

Delusional.

You're so mean.

[Verbal]

Yep. And lo and behold, Sakaea (the inactive I'm voting) is on that train. COINCIDENCE???

I hope not - I'm voting Sakaea, too.

[Integrity28]

I know.

but between you and smc, who seem to know what you're talking about... even though its leading... nowhere clear... I don't know what I can add.

I don't think you're scum, you talk too much for someone who's played with you not to have tripped you up... despite his book of ape smc hasn't made a solid case against you that I can see, just... glib.

nor have you made a solid case against him.. or anyone else. just... provocative.

I'm not sure how I feel about lynching ppl just for not posting as much, it seems pointless. they're mostly... no, entirely noobs here... and I know where they come from the mafia doesn't encourage lots of activity so... not sure there's a reasonable way to read that.

the speed lynch thing yesterday I'm real uncomfortable with, but it seemed mainly designed to push ppl to talk and didn't go anywhere. I assume if it was meant to... it would have been pretty easy to push a lynch there.

the other people I don't know welI just can't read. don't know that I can read anyone.

the ppl that I do know... the only one who's talking about the game much is lee... and I don't agree with what she's pushing, lynch the inactive... but I don't know if that means sh*t. it seems to be a popular thing to do here.

hatters continual vote changing is .... I don't know if he's just that easily led and distracted by each ooh, shiny... or trying to push ppl but lacking experience. it doesn't seem well thought out, so... annoying as it is... don't think it's indicative of anything.

so to sum up... I have no idea and nothing I've read... and I've read it all... is giving me a strong feeling about anyone.

now tell me how stupid I am. cause I might not know.

To the bold. SMC made a case in which he implied all of my typical town tells, are in fact scum tells. I know you can't vet this accusation because you've not played with me, but others here who have played should know. When Verbal contest that I get myself ignored by relying too much on meta, he was straight lying. Verbal knows, and often likes to tell me, that I get ignored because I try too hard, too redundantly, but nothing about meta.

My case on SMC is that he went all-in against me on D1. Leaving no room for him to second-guess. Nobody is genuinely that confident on D1 without some sort of extra info, which led me to ponder why he'd go all-in against me. The best I could come up with is that he thought I breadcrumbed Doc and wanted to either get me lynched, or force a reveal so he and his scum team don't have to contend with the wifom of my MASH joke.

Now, you say neither of us has a "solid" case.... but how solid do you expect a case to be on D1, exactly? I feel like you are just going through the motions of deliberation on this situation.

I agree with you about simply lynching people for low post counts. I've seen guys like Sharrow say more with 5 posts than many of us do with 75, post count is not a metric for game contribution. Post content is.

So... moving away from trying to connect the dots... if I was to try to find one scum at a time, there are 2 posts that really pinged me a lot. First was by AVM where he played the middle between SMC and I, that had AVM scum signature all over it. Wanting to be involved in the thick of the situation without really taking a position, so that he could go with the flow. The other was by Verbal, as mentioned above, if I was to find a single post in the game that made me want to lynch someone, it would be that post by Verbal actually. He knows my play very well, so I'm not sure what compelled him to basically lie about the circumstances surrounding why I often get tuned out when I'm casing.

[Integrity28]

DID WE JUST BECOME BEST FRIENDS?

[Integrity28]

hatters on that train with you too... and he's not randomly vote changing if apes review is correct.

but isn't that too obvious ?

Hatter has moved his vote to whomever I am voting. I'm not sure what you mean by "he's not randomly vote changing".

[Jetsfan80]

SMC is now at L-2 (unofficially).

Unofficial Day 1 Vote Count

SMC (5) – Ape, Sakaea, JiF, Madhatter, Crusher

Sakaea (4) – Leelou, AVM, Verbal, 80

Ape (3) – cindy, SMC, Basel

Basel (1) – Ishy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

[Integrity28]

I think her randomness is adorable.

She is one to watch as she gets into the game to see if she is being coached up some.

SMC/Monkey thing is interesting because the whole thing seems pretty average for you day 1. Makes me wonder why someone like SMC who knows damn well how you react to pressure would kick you. Not saying your not scum, no way to know that but your reaction is more what I would expect from you. Outside chance of you two silly bitches playing a gambit. LOL

I was scum with SMC when he decided to make up a PR and he cruised to end game. He is a smart dude. My best theory is maybe he is trying weather test himself as scum. Early heat and pressure sometimes galvanizes scum and they go late into the game. Could even be the GF trying to get looked at.

Leelou doing a very good DanX impression stands out. The old "golly Gee Im not sure." Is she really so excited to play with you guys she does not want to vote you?

I have a busy morning I will be in and out. Should have time to be on for a bit after 1.

unvote

vote SMC

Good post.

[cindy]

To the bold. SMC made a case in which he implied all of my typical town tells, are in fact scum tells. I know you can't vet this accusation because you've not played with me, but others here who have played should know. When Verbal contest that I get myself ignored by relying too much on meta, he was straight lying. Verbal knows, and often likes to tell me, that I get ignored because I try too hard, too redundantly, but nothing about meta.

My case on SMC is that he went all-in against me on D1. Leaving no room for him to second-guess. Nobody is genuinely that confident on D1 without some sort of extra info, which led me to ponder why he'd go all-in against me. The best I could come up with is that he thought I breadcrumbed Doc and wanted to either get me lynched, or force a reveal so he and his scum team don't have to contend with the wifom of my MASH joke.

Now, you say neither of us has a "solid" case.... but how solid do you expect a case to be on D1, exactly? I feel like you are just going through the motions of deliberation on this situation.

I agree with you about simply lynching people for low post counts. I've seen guys like Sharrow say more with 5 posts than many of us do with 75, post count is not a metric for game contribution. Post content is.

So... moving away from trying to connect the dots... if I was to try to find one scum at a time, there are 2 posts that really pinged me a lot. First was by AVM where he played the middle between SMC and I, that had AVM scum signature all over it. Wanting to be involved in the thick of the situation without really taking a position, so that he could go with the flow. The other was by Verbal, as mentioned above, if I was to find a single post in the game that made me want to lynch someone, it would be that post by Verbal actually. He knows my play very well, so I'm not sure what compelled him to basically lie about the circumstances surrounding why I often get tuned out when I'm casing.

yes, I'm going through the motions because you asked me to post something game related and thats the best I could do.

because I have no idea how anyone can have a solid take on anything at this point. I didn't say I expected you would have, I said nothing anyone has said is giving me a solid feeling on anyone.

I appreciate the summary and the reasoning i can follow.

[cindy]

Hatter has moved his vote to whomever I am voting. I'm not sure what you mean by "he's not randomly vote changing".

I meant I believe you have made a possibly meaningful observation.

all I had noticed was that he seemed to change his vote with every other post.

I didn't notice him following you in particular until you pointed it out.

I thought he was just chasing after squirrels like a puppy. but he's chasing after you.

why, btw?

[Verbal]

To the bold. SMC made a case in which he implied all of my typical town tells, are in fact scum tells. I know you can't vet this accusation because you've not played with me, but others here who have played should know. When Verbal contest that I get myself ignored by relying too much on meta, he was straight lying. Verbal knows, and often likes to tell me, that I get ignored because I try too hard, too redundantly, but nothing about meta.

Partially true. When you've found scum, then everything in that paragraph applies. But when you get no traction, you start to rely more and more on meta. You've done this more recently with JC. You two had a pretty good run of reading each other, and then you both were too caught up in the meta that developed as a result that it hampered your ability to "catch" each other afterwards.....or to put it better, it hampered your ability to get others to see what you see.

[Integrity28]

I'm working on the theory that SMC is scum, and observing the reactions to my case on him so that I gain better context of the whole game. Everything I'm saying about you possibly being scum is related to this game's events and your comments in this game. You are the one invoking that I can't read you anymore, pointing to past games. I only brought up past games to illustrate that D1 scum lynches are possible.

You are waffling.

I disagree. I feel like other players don't really do anything to "allow" you to drown yourself out - you do that by leaning too strongly on meta. It is useful for a baseline, but I think you put too much stock into it.

When I drown myself out, it is not because I'm leaning on meta. That's a horsesh*t accusation. I drown myself out by arguing the same point over and over as if nobody read it the first 68 times, and when I've got scum in my sights they egg me on by playing obtuse and make me re-explain or re-frame my case repeatedly, until it turns into a sh*t show.

Don't like this post from you at all.

This exchange won't leave my mind.

Verbal is camped out on Sakaea, avoiding any blatant position in Ape vs. SMC, but still chimes in here softly discredit my position, in favor of SMC.

I feel like I knocked off some rust yesterday, today I'm seeing with a fresher set of eyes. Many of you have heard me say this before, but it never hurts to remind myself or the group... Scum is found in the subtleties and nuance, not in the obvious. The scummiest appearing players are often the most obviously town, because it is the town that knows not how to avoid play that will later appear subversive.

Yes, it is possible that SMC is making a play at scum, but looking past him I see subtleties with AVM and Verbal that feign indecisiveness, but actually demonstrate intent.

My top 3 for today: SMC, AVM and Verbal

I don't even want to get into my reads beyond them right now, I'm re-evaluating yesterday now that I've had a chance to re-read the reactions to all the ruckus.

[SMC]

Question.

When SMC came at me, and I in turn went right back at him. Who were the early hop-on votes on both trains? Who voted with explanation that sounded valid, who voted with explanation that sounded like lip-service to cover a bandwagon vote, and who voted without any explanation at all?

While I feel good about seeing SMC and AVM get lynched based on their play so far, it is not lost on me that statistically it is more likely SMC and I are both town. Therefore, it can't be ignored that while both of use made loud cases it would very easy for scum to get behind either of us... additionally it wouldn't be surprising for scum to play both sides as it appears AVM and Leelou are doing to some degree. Influencing some things, but ultimately keeping their hands clean.

Trap. Set.

Whether I'm right or wrong about SMC, my gut says there's at least one scum on that train with me. Know what I mean?

With Pac and CTM not in the game and Ape having an absolutely sh*tty summer (wedding day the exception of course), I didn't want him to feel lonely D1 with his usual antagonists not here. So, I decided to ape the Ape and make up BS reasons to vote him with minimal information and act like it was a real case. Got some heat on me and him.

The most opportunistic of the vote hopers looks like MadHatter, the 4th vote on a 7 vote lynch.

Unvote: Ape

Vote: MadHatter

[Integrity28]

Partially true. When you've found scum, then everything in that paragraph applies. But when you get no traction, you start to rely more and more on meta. You've done this more recently with JC. You two had a pretty good run of reading each other, and then you both were too caught up in the meta that developed as a result that it hampered your ability to "catch" each other afterwards.....or to put it better, it hampered your ability to get others to see what you see.

Still, the reason people tuned me out was not because of the meta - it was because I kept shoving the same case framework in your faces in every post, and THAT is the behavior that I routinely commit to undermine my own good play.

[Integrity28]

Trap. Set.

With Pac and CTM not in the game and Ape having an absolutely sh*tty summer (wedding day the exception of course), I didn't want him to feel lonely D1 with his usual antagonists not here. So, I decided to ape the Ape and make up BS reasons to vote him with minimal information and act like it was a real case. Got some heat on me and him.

The most opportunistic of the vote hopers looks like MadHatter, the 4th vote on a 7 vote lynch.

Unvote: Ape

Vote: MadHatter

I had a feeling this could be the case. When I re-read it today with a clearer head, you sort of telegraphed it. I didn't really see it yesterday being back in action for the first time, much easier to just argue - rather than read between lines.

I'll trust you are being sincere right now, rather than taking the out I gave you in the possible scenarios I wrote out. LOL

[Jetsfan80]

Unofficial Day 1 Vote Count

SMC (5) – Ape, Sakaea, JiF, Madhatter, Crusher

Sakaea (4) – Leelou, AVM, Verbal, 80

Ape (2) – cindy, Basel

Madhatter (1) - SMC

Basel (1) – Ishy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

[SMC]

I had a feeling this could be the case. When I re-read it today with a clearer head, you sort of telegraphed it. I didn't really see it yesterday being back in action for the first time, much easier to just argue - rather than read between lines.

I'll trust you are being sincere right now, rather than taking the out I gave you in the possible scenarios I wrote out. LOL

I can't tell you I'm being sincere since it's a WIFOM, LOL. But Crusher put me at L-2, so I might as well reveal.

Also, as a little personal joke, I was being a dick on purpose as well. Why? Because I'm "The Dick Van Dyke Show" and a roleless townie.

My train and death, regardless, would be informative.