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Classic TV vs Reality TV mafia - basic game


Lily
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Also, I'm not being emo. Just asking that we play the game based on in-game events, rather than digress into identity politics. To me that isn't worth the time these games take away from the rest of my life.

yes, you're right.

and I know you don't care what I'm saying.

I did that much worse than any if the ppl you were talking about, so I hope you'll forgive them and keep playing.

as you are one of four people who are actually playing the game, though... I don't know if that's so odd for day one, I hope you won't stop.

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yes, you're right.

and I know you don't care what I'm saying.

I did that much worse than any if the ppl you were talking about, so I hope you'll forgive them and keep playing.

as you are one of four people who are actually playing the game, though... I don't know if that's so odd for day one, I hope you won't stop.

You need to understand. Nothing I'm talking about really pertains to you. Im talking about the guys who are avoiding game-related play in lieu of cratering on irrelevant and incorrect criticisms of me. That's not playing mafia, it's cowardice that they can't defend in-game events and statements, and have to resort to trying to get me defending and correcting past actions. It is very basic.... Piss me off and then my actual scum hunting falls to the wayside. I look at it as an indictment of guilt by them.

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You need to understand. Nothing I'm talking about really pertains to you. Im talking about the guys who are avoiding game-related play in lieu of cratering on irrelevant and incorrect criticisms of me. That's not playing mafia, it's cowardice that they can't defend in-game events and statements, and have to resort to trying to get me defending and correcting past actions. It is very basic.... Piss me off and then my actual scum hunting falls to the wayside. I look at it as an indictment of guilt by them.

I do understand that. I have been following what you've been saying, though I know it doesn't seem like that.

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You need to understand. Nothing I'm talking about really pertains to you. Im talking about the guys who are avoiding game-related play in lieu of cratering on irrelevant and incorrect criticisms of me. That's not playing mafia, it's cowardice that they can't defend in-game events and statements, and have to resort to trying to get me defending and correcting past actions. It is very basic.... Piss me off and then my actual scum hunting falls to the wayside. I look at it as an indictment of guilt by them.

me too, but that might have some basis, if they have nothing else to argue, they might argue that.

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I28 (4) – Cindy, Basel, JiF, AVM

Sakaea (3) – Leelou, Verbal, 80

SMC (1) – Sakaea

Basel (1) – Ishy

Hatter (1) – SMC

Crusher (1) – Hatter

AVM (1) – I28

Not voting – Crusher

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline Tuesday 5PM MST/7PM EST

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

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A Happy Thanksgiving to you all. So here's some of my "case" against the Ape.

You of all people KNOW I've caught scum on D1.

Your attempts to diffuse SMC vs. Ape are now pinging.

Yes Ape. Let's play THIS game. This is the first time that the Ape tries to create the faux idea that I was diffusing Ape v SMC. Ignore completely the fact that every game for how long now has been a "who does the Ape want to guarantee he's got as scum" fight, thus making my initial statement correct.

Go back to SMC.

Yes, you trapped me into doing something I routinely do as town.

I am appalled by how obvious you are being right now, I definitely feel like my stupid crack about MASH turned out to be an unintended trap, lol

Interesting. At this point I've become increasingly "pinging" on the Apes radar, yet he tries to direct Crush back onto SMC -- his, at the time, top suspect. If I'm scummy, and the "book on AVM as scum" is that getting me to talk gets me to screw up...why take pressure off of me? Unless you're just trying to create suspicion without getting your hands dirty or having to worry about being wrong down the road.

Scum hunting notes:

SMC - strong read, obvious scum agenda

AVM - medium read, obligatory attempt to cast Ape vs. SMC aside and not take a side, but still talk about it enough to undermine my position

Cindy - mild read, felt like she was being coached up on how to contend with my early vote on her, could be that SMC was trying to take heat off her by coming at me

Looking more deeply at those who are completely avoiding Ape vs. SMC as if they are part of a whole other game.

Town read on both Crusher and JIF, but it's possible if SMC is scum one of them is mates with him and they took my side to distance from him.

Again, proving I'm the #2 on your list. If I'm you're number 2 on DAY ONE then directing votes away from me isn't exactly a town move. Again, key in on the directing of votes...literally directing Crusher how to vote.

I have a strong history of properly reading SMC as scum, but not as good a track record leading lynches on him when I've got him... because he usually gets me to drown myself out, as he's done here so far.

Ok, here's some meta. No problem. If you didn't just go emo (it doesn't make it not emo if you say I'm not going emo) because people are meta'ing you.

Meta is playing something other than the specific game play as a part of the game. Your constant butt hurt over people "not playing the game" with you does not help your case.

Yes, I'm convinced that if SMC is scum... so are you.

Classic AVM, talk out loud as if you are rationalizing things logically... but have it all culminate in an agenda-driven conclusion, not logic-driven. Same thing you did earlier in your post that pinged me, there is this "AVM isn't taking a side yet, but he's gently nudging people away from SMC amidst his own toiling" undertone to your posts.

Again, meta.

Did I say that? I said if SMC is scum, I'd bet you are.

I make statements like that often. You seem to be over-reacting and leveraging what I said, as an opportunity to change its meaning to make a defensive statement. Not feeling any better about you at all from this.

Yes, yes you do. You do it all the time and it's a cheap way to raise your batting average, so to speak. You act like you are right a great deal of the time. You're not. Are you right more than others? Yes...I've said that 3 or 4 times now to fan your ego.

I'm working on the theory that SMC is scum, and observing the reactions to my case on him so that I gain better context of the whole game. Everything I'm saying about you possibly being scum is related to this game's events and your comments in this game. You are the one invoking that I can't read you anymore, pointing to past games. I only brought up past games to illustrate that D1 scum lynches are possible.

You are waffling.

The first time you said I was waffling. Made up out of thin air. I never once in the beginning said you or SMC were or were not scum, so how can I be waffling? I'm waffling according to you because it fits your agenda.

This is a highly predictable post. AVM can't stifle Ape vs. SMC and though most of his other posts said he had a town read on SMC, I'm clearly winning the popular opinion and thus AVM is now changing his tune... and insinuating that his siding with SMC earlier was just to poke fun at me and not behavior he should be held accountable for.

When did I change my tune? Again, the OP from me on the subject was a statement of what seems to be the case every game -- the ape vs ??? on day 1. You can have a problem with that all you want, doesn't make me any less right.

I don't read the ape well. Never have. But that right there is direct manipulation of what was said and posted.

You want someone to come at you with game play? Done. Game on monkey.

Happy Thanksgiving b******.

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yes, you're right.

and I know you don't care what I'm saying.

I did that much worse than any if the ppl you were talking about, so I hope you'll forgive them and keep playing.

as you are one of four people who are actually playing the game, though... I don't know if that's so odd for day one, I hope you won't stop.

You need to understand. Nothing I'm talking about really pertains to you. Im talking about the guys who are avoiding game-related play in lieu of cratering on irrelevant and incorrect criticisms of me. That's not playing mafia, it's cowardice that they can't defend in-game events and statements, and have to resort to trying to get me defending and correcting past actions. It is very basic.... Piss me off and then my actual scum hunting falls to the wayside. I look at it as an indictment of guilt by them.

He's referring to me, dear. Not you. He's trying to get under my skin and get me to overreact and sling insults as it was something he's seen done effectively before. Not working this game, unfortunately.

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Also, unvote, vote AVM

Had him after that one post me thinks.

Yet Crush should have unvoted.

It's not a question of you feeling stronger about SMC, that's fine. If that one post was condemning enough you shouldn't have felt compelled to tell Crush to unvote.

Me thinks you thought you could get SMC dead and wanted to have others ready to go on the lynch AVM party the next day after SMC flipped town.

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A Happy Thanksgiving to you all. So here's some of my "case" against the Ape.

Yes Ape. Let's play THIS game. This is the first time that the Ape tries to create the faux idea that I was diffusing Ape v SMC. Ignore completely the fact that every game for how long now has been a "who does the Ape want to guarantee he's got as scum" fight, thus making my initial statement correct.

Interesting. At this point I've become increasingly "pinging" on the Apes radar, yet he tries to direct Crush back onto SMC -- his, at the time, top suspect. If I'm scummy, and the "book on AVM as scum" is that getting me to talk gets me to screw up...why take pressure off of me? Unless you're just trying to create suspicion without getting your hands dirty or having to worry about being wrong down the road.

Again, proving I'm the #2 on your list. If I'm you're number 2 on DAY ONE then directing votes away from me isn't exactly a town move. Again, key in on the directing of votes...literally directing Crusher how to vote.

Ok, here's some meta. No problem. If you didn't just go emo (it doesn't make it not emo if you say I'm not going emo) because people are meta'ing you.

Meta is playing something other than the specific game play as a part of the game. Your constant butt hurt over people "not playing the game" with you does not help your case.

Again, meta.

Yes, yes you do. You do it all the time and it's a cheap way to raise your batting average, so to speak. You act like you are right a great deal of the time. You're not. Are you right more than others? Yes...I've said that 3 or 4 times now to fan your ego.

The first time you said I was waffling. Made up out of thin air. I never once in the beginning said you or SMC were or were not scum, so how can I be waffling? I'm waffling according to you because it fits your agenda.

When did I change my tune? Again, the OP from me on the subject was a statement of what seems to be the case every game -- the ape vs ??? on day 1. You can have a problem with that all you want, doesn't make me any less right.

I don't read the ape well. Never have. But that right there is direct manipulation of what was said and posted.

You want someone to come at you with game play? Done. Game on monkey.

Happy Thanksgiving b******.

ahhhhh... words.... words words words....

logical words.

not provocative or glib or... seeming to be geared toward eliciting an emotional response.

you stay here and play!

you make sense.

you do not redirect with pretending to throw tennis balls which you've actually palmed....

nor do you rely on bombast nor intimidation.

carry on please.

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A Happy Thanksgiving to you all. So here's some of my "case" against the Ape.

Case? All I see is more of you feeding everyone an interpretation of what I'm really doing or meaning by my posts. Also known as spin.

Yes Ape. Let's play THIS game. This is the first time that the Ape tries to create the faux idea that I was diffusing Ape v SMC. Ignore completely the fact that every game for how long now has been a "who does the Ape want to guarantee he's got as scum" fight, thus making my initial statement correct.

You came in and made a comment about how catching scum on D1 is a futile effort, made some non-committal other comments about SMC vs. Ape like you hadn't made up your mind, but then made comments to undermine me, which is like saying "I haven't decided, but I really have".

What you said has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with you idiotic snide "every game has become Ape guaranteeing blah, blah, blah" and that is why your rebuttal argument is basically irrelevant. I haven't guaranteed anything, in fact it was you that talked about me having good reads on certain people, and then you that started trying to argue against those reads. I never leaned on having caught you on D1 in the past, I leaned on generalized scum tells. Your post, the one that pinged first, was something scum does in general. Not you specifically, but many scum players, including myself.

It is a means of steering the popular opinion to one side of an A vs. B situation, without adamantly attaching yourself to either person in question.

That is the ONLY thing I feel you are guilty of doing, I'm not guaranteeing you are scum. I just feel good about it. Your hysterics and over-defense of a little pressure from me makes me feel a bit better about it, especially since your defense has turned into a counter case that is being propped up by untruthful meta and variables you brought up only to then argue against.

You haven't actually argued my initial accusation at all, instead you are just throwing words into my mouth, then when I try to correct you, you are using THAT as the premise of your counter-case on me. So you are forming a case on me around debate over statements and variables you've introduced from past games, play.

Why? Because there's no defense of the post I nailed you on.

Interesting. At this point I've become increasingly "pinging" on the Apes radar, yet he tries to direct Crush back onto SMC -- his, at the time, top suspect. If I'm scummy, and the "book on AVM as scum" is that getting me to talk gets me to screw up...why take pressure off of me? Unless you're just trying to create suspicion without getting your hands dirty or having to worry about being wrong down the road.

This is a terrible argument. There's plenty of reasons why I could have urged Crusher to do something with his vote. At the time this was posted, I felt SMC was my best read and his alignment would shed light on yours. I also wanted a better view of Crusher's play. I opted to urge Crusher to leave his vote with SMC because I wanted to keep pressure and a long train on SMC, while arguing/casing you. My thought was that if you are scum and SMC is not, and I turned the heat up on you, then scum would probably try to re-invigorate the SMC train to save your ass.

Crusher doing what he did made me feel pretty good about him for the time.

Again, proving I'm the #2 on your list. If I'm you're number 2 on DAY ONE then directing votes away from me isn't exactly a town move. Again, key in on the directing of votes...literally directing Crusher how to vote.

Like I've said already, weak argument. I don't think votes matter too much, and they are certainly not the sole determinant in how someone is looking at the game. I've voted people I KNOW are town before as town to try to catch scum. This brings me back to the post from you, in which you don't cast a vote, try to sound undecided, but then undermine my positions which speaks louder to me than any vote.

When I say "hey you, vote this way" I do it for all to see. Why would I EVER do that as scum? I wouldn't. sh*t, nobody would.

Scum try to influence momentum, not tell player X to vote for player Y. You tried to sound undecided, then undermined me... that is how momentum is influenced in a subtle, hands-clean way.

Ok, here's some meta. No problem. If you didn't just go emo (it doesn't make it not emo if you say I'm not going emo) because people are meta'ing you.

Meta is playing something other than the specific game play as a part of the game. Your constant butt hurt over people "not playing the game" with you does not help your case.

I didn't go emo. I chastised you for poor gamesmanship. I also brought to light the fact that you are mounted an OMGUS case on me with zero game-related premise. Even with this wall of text response, you aren't actually making a case for me being scum. I don't actually know what the **** you are doing at this point...

Again, meta.

Yes, yes you do. You do it all the time and it's a cheap way to raise your batting average, so to speak. You act like you are right a great deal of the time. You're not. Are you right more than others? Yes...I've said that 3 or 4 times now to fan your ego.

What does this have to do with this game? Nothing. The Ape that takes bait easily would want to argue with this, but I can see where it is actually detrimental to my case on you that I argue with non-game-relevant statements you are making.

You were the first to bring up my scum hunting track record, repeatedly, and now here you are building a weak counter-case around what I do and don't do to improve my stats and my ego boost? WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING? Fine, you don't like when I am happy about playing good and you seem to ignore how hard I am on myself when I play bad. Has NOTHING to do with this game.

Comes across more like you are town and have an axe to grind with me, or you are scum and this is the only path you could go down to save your ass.

The first time you said I was waffling. Made up out of thin air. I never once in the beginning said you or SMC were or were not scum, so how can I be waffling? I'm waffling according to you because it fits your agenda.

It was a fence-sitting post. Out loud you expressed no interest or opinion about the SMC vs. Ape. Evading weighing in, is waffling. It was in your follow-through where you began undermining me that your true bias showed through.

When did I change my tune? Again, the OP from me on the subject was a statement of what seems to be the case every game -- the ape vs ??? on day 1. You can have a problem with that all you want, doesn't make me any less right.

I don't read the ape well. Never have. But that right there is direct manipulation of what was said and posted.

You want someone to come at you with game play? Done. Game on monkey.

Happy Thanksgiving b******.

The Ape vs. ??? on D1 has historically proven to weed out scum. You know that, and that is why I consider your pseudo-disdain for it undermining me.

The most important part of this whole mess is that there was no reason for you to throw dirt on my scum hunting efforts. There are no real negative ramifications for a townie in letting me do my thing. You either catch me as scum early, or I milk D1 for lots of info for scum hunting later.

Yet, you crapped on my efforts like you immediately knew I was town... and you tried immediately to discredit me, as though I was already sniffing around scum mates of yours. I mean, why else discredit my preliminary scum hunting if you are town?

It makes ZERO sense.

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more than one person is "coming at you with game play," which... I guess would tend to be based on not much besides their knowledge of your previous game play instead of the specifics of this game right now.

why? this may be too silly for you to consider, but... I think they're ... they seem... concerned that you'll get bored and walk away from a game they enjoy much more with you than without you bc there are too many dmers and noobs... who are either not up to your level of play, or... who dont know the style here or in particular your style, well enough to go head to head with you yet.

I see a lot of standing back and watching and trying to figure stuff out... and also some attempts to actually jump in and try to play along that ring... off... because there are so many unknown quantities on both sides.

I've had the feeling while reading some of the game play posts that they were kind of directed at explanation of everyone's "meta" and education on the way things usually go here... more than at anything specific to this game. like, this is ape, he plays this way, this is smc (thanks for the mnemonic device, hatter, don't think I'll ever screw up the acronym again...), this is AVM, etc.

because that's the only sense most of it makes on day one.

fwiw. which I know, is nothing.

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more than one person is "coming at you with game play," which... I guess would tend to be based on not much besides their knowledge of your previous game play instead of the specifics of this game right now.

why? this may be too silly for you to consider, but... I think they're ... they seem... concerned that you'll get bored and walk away from a game they enjoy much more with you than without you bc there are too many dmers and noobs... who are either not up to your level of play, or... who dont know the style here or in particular your style, well enough to go head to head with you yet.

I see a lot of standing back and watching and trying to figure stuff out... and also some attempts to actually jump in and try to play along that ring... off... because there are so many unknown quantities on both sides.

I've had the feeling while reading some of the game play posts that they were kind of directed at explanation of everyone's "meta" and education on the way things usually go here... more than at anything specific to this game. like, this is ape, he plays this way, this is smc (thanks for the mnemonic device, hatter, don't think I'll ever screw up the acronym again...), this is AVM, etc.

because that's the only sense most of it makes on day one.

fwiw. which I know, is nothing.

The issue I have with how this has gone so far is that multiple people are taking advantage of the amount of impressionable noobies, and they are selling bullsh*t as meta. Verbal did it, AVM is doing it and SMC was really doing a lot.

Doesn't make them scum, necessarily. What it does do is remove any relevancy I can have in my casing.

So rather than people I'm pressuring defend their actions or statements, it creates a scenario where I have to instead defend the falsities they are perpetuating about my reputation. Thus killing my case, and putting me in the spotlight of being defensive - but not for being scummy in this game, instead I'm defending the accuracy of their meta. Which is irrelevant to their cases or to this game, to be honest.

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The issue I have with how this has gone so far is that multiple people are taking advantage of the amount of impressionable noobies, and they are selling bullsh*t as meta. Verbal did it, AVM is doing it and SMC was really doing a lot.

Doesn't make them scum, necessarily. What it does do is remove any relevancy I can have in my casing.

So rather than people I'm pressuring defend their actions or statements, it creates a scenario where I have to instead defend the falsities they are perpetuating about my reputation. Thus killing my case, and putting me in the spotlight of being defensive - but not for being scummy in this game, instead I'm defending the accuracy of their meta. Which is irrelevant to their cases or to this game, to be honest.

not speaking for anyone else, but I'm mostly ignoring what people are saying about anyone's meta or persona cause one, it makes no sense to someone who hasn't interacted with you, or them, before, and I don't think you can learn anything about someone second hand and two, makes me feel like I'm being directed to ignore whats in front of my eyes and do what someone else tells me based on... their say so.

which... i dont like.

and it would never work unless it was too subtle to sense.... and this isn't subtle.

I'm trying to figure people out myself and so far... not getting much more except ... these people know each other very well.

but no one is fooling anyone with the dog and pony show, so...

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