Classic TV vs Reality TV mafia - basic game

[Integrity28]

Ah, the end of game Doc false claim. How typical.

If you really are the Doc and you didn't protect AVM last night, your reputation has been grossly exaggerated.

Fact of the matter is, I cased JiF and you stayed away from it, instead focusing on SMC, who you knew to be Town.

When AVM revealed JiF as scum, you again waited till the last, only coming in to hammer when you saw it as the lost cause that it was.

When I pointed out the inconsistancy in Basel's claim, you swooped in and said ZOMG!! He's right!! And voted someone you again knew to be Town.

And today, after everyone else came to the conclusion that there's no Doc, you knew you could falseclaim without fear of a CC.

Spin it how you like, but there's no scenario, in this game at least, where self protecting helped Town, not this late in the game. And you would know this.

Vote Ape.

Hahaha... Leelou and 80, you guys have heard me talk about this many times now.

Town players don't know what they are doing is scummy, because they don't have all the information. Scum players, by this stage of the game, look the cleanest. There is NO DOUBT I probably come across as one of the scummiest looking players left alive. That is where scum likes to swoop in and provide the revisionist history of what went down, along with the spin to make it look scummy.

Cindy is clearly making an "AVM said he suspected you during night, you must have killed him" frame play.

While Ishy is pouring fuel on the fire with spun hindsight about things like me waiting to hammer JIF. Same goes with Basel. All this crap he's bringing forward, it is all spin. Listen to the narrative... its the sh*t I typically do when I'm scum. In fact it's exactly what I do, I point at past events and turn them into a narrative pointing to an obvious conclusion that my target must be scum, for having committed all things scummy things. Using narrative like this is the benefit of knowing what NOT to do when you are scum, watching townies do it, and then manipulating the perception later to pick them off one-by-one.

You've seen me do it in the past. I haven't done it this game though. I've tried to case people on meta, universal scum tells, logic, but no narratives. Take note.

Anyway, I've laid out the logical path for the town. When else would I have revealed as Doc? I wasn't run up at any point, and with 3 votes to lynch and potentially 2 scum left, I have to reveal when I did since Cindy made the play to take me down. Look at what Ishy is saying now, "I waited until there was consensus that there was no doc" then I revealed? Huh? That's flat out stupid. One. Ishy and Leelou looked to be Doc fishing, and I think it was Ishy who pushed the agenda that there may not be a Doc. The fingers started pointing at me, so I revealed, knowing one townie voting me could end the game. Just because people decided there was no Doc, doesn't provide a "safe" time for me to false claim as he's suggesting. That's a flat out illogical accusation.

I've explained my rationale for the way I played Doc. I'd do it the same any time. I knew that AVM wouldn't be targeted N2, and knew I could be taken out at any time. I sincerely thought it was obvious that I was Doc after D1 and my interaction with SMC. So I hoped scum would assume I'm protecting AVM, and come at me. My goal was to waste their NK, knowing scum would MOST LIKELY just avoid the "who was protected" wifom.

[Integrity28]

yeah, i get it, you're on the record, you're off the hook.

no matter what happens... you're right.

More JIF and Verbal speak.

Anyway, what am I guilty of not noticing he unvoted me? Give me a break, at least you were playing it smart earlier. Now your just being stupid.

[Integrity28]

second time this game you've threatened to quit.

who's being emo now?

I was talking about playing mafia in general. I'm not going to continue to play if every wise-crack culminates in one of you ****ing fantasy land head cases bitching and moaning it into modkills.

Who typed this out for you Verbal or JIF?

[cindy]

yeah, makes perfect sense for the doc to protect himself instead of the cop. you're more valuable to the game than any ten players. but you;re at a much more advanced level of play than my idiotic mind would ever understand.

but noone needs to revise any history, they can reread it ten times like i have.

and they can make up their own minds.

[Ishy]

I'm doing what you do Ape?

I'm teh new King of teh Mafia.

[cindy]

More JIF and Verbal speak.

Anyway, what am I guilty of not noticing he unvoted me? Give me a break, at least you were playing it smart earlier. Now your just being stupid.

dipsh*t, what you're guilty of... what else you're guilty of... is painting every possible scenario as one in which you cannot possibly be wrong.

you have voted every player in this game at least once, and lus - and do not pretend you don't, you constantly yammer on about it, bitching that noone else will, that we're all ****ing cowards cause we let you lead. but who the **** can get through your bombastic bullsh*t to change that?

and please, i know you think i'm a moron, but can you honestly believe i'm stupid enough not to catch that on my own? even if it hadn't been said, many times, by everyone else who's played with you... i am not that clueless about the humans. don't take my word for it, you'll figure it out some day.

go ahead, drown yourself out.

just talk us all to death.

[Integrity28]

yeah, makes perfect sense for the doc to protect himself instead of the cop. you're more valuable to the game than any ten players. but you;re at a much more advanced level of play than my idiotic mind would ever understand.

but noone needs to revise any history, they can reread it ten times like i have.

and they can make up their own minds.

Let's get this straight...

AVM was insinuating he was suspicious of me. I know I'm town. My assumption in that case is scum thinks the cop is going to view a townie, they will not kill him. I protect myself, because at this point I feel it's obvious I am Doc, and I want to BLOCK the NK. I figured scum would shoot me, BECAUSE AVM said he suspects me, then AVM turns around and has a result on a dead townie.

It is altogether possible that I did block the scum NK. 80 could be a SK and 80 could have shot AVM. We don't know. I'm leaning towards scum having shot me, and AVM was shot by 80 to be honest.

If it wasn't 80 that shot him, then what it boils down to is scum made an illogical choice by shooting the cop, and got lucky that I chose to protect myself based upon what I would have done as a logical scum player. I would have shot the player AVM said he was suspicious of. Why? Because it reduces risk of wasted NK and instills the idea that the Cop is being left alive because there is a godfather.

Also, there's NO WAY I would have shot at AVM this close to end game and risked losing my kill. Especially not if there has been 2 kills each night and we could have come into this day with 4 players, potentially 2 of them scum.

What we need to decide right now Cindy, if you are town and there is only ONE scum, is who stands to gain the most if you guys mistakenly lynch the Doc today? Are you town? If you are, then your case on me is being taken advantage of opportunistically by Ishy.

I could see if you are just town and drawing the wrong conclusion about me. I can see how your suspicion might grow with your aggravation towards me. Put that aside. If you are town, then we both need to move our votes to Ishy. He's playing you. Everything I'm saying is pretty logical, and I can't tell if you are ignoring that purposefully or out of aggravation.

Ishy is very clearly scum. You, I'm a little torn about. If there is only one scum left, I'd bet anything it is Ishy actually... he's totally manipulating everything the game has given him to this point to take me out.

Scum needs the doc lynched now. Guarantees they win with the NKs.

[cindy]

I was talking about playing mafia in general. I'm not going to continue to play if every wise-crack culminates in one of you ****ing fantasy land head cases bitching and moaning it into modkills.

Who typed this out for you Verbal or JIF?

i don't believe you're as dumb as you're pretending.

noone else sounds like me. i've typed more than enough words for you to know that.

you called me a twinkie in your first post... that was funny... and said some nasty sh*t which i expected. i was told i'd be voted off the island on day one because that's what y'all like to do to DM noobs, so i wasn't expecting a warm welcome.

did you happen to notice who was there at the time making me feel welcome?

i'll give you a ****ing clue.

he got killed last night.

and i may be a rookie scum hunter... and i could be as wrong as you've seemed to be so many times, with all your experience and all your mafia brilliance.... but you're my best guess.

and the rest of the people you play with may care enough about your threats to quit to vote on that alone.

but i don't.

[cindy]

hell of an assumption to make... you're the doc... and you leave him open... and he ****ing dies.

and i am aggravated and i am walking away now and i will come back when the meds kick in.

i do not care what you do right now.

[Integrity28]

dipsh*t, what you're guilty of... what else you're guilty of... is painting every possible scenario as one in which you cannot possibly be wrong.

you have voted every player in this game at least once, and lus - and do not pretend you don't, you constantly yammer on about it, bitching that noone else will, that we're all ****ing cowards cause we let you lead. but who the **** can get through your bombastic bullsh*t to change that?

and please, i know you think i'm a moron, but can you honestly believe i'm stupid enough not to catch that on my own? even if it hadn't been said, many times, by everyone else who's played with you... i am not that clueless about the humans. don't take my word for it, you'll figure it out some day.

go ahead, drown yourself out.

just talk us all to death.

I don't think you are a moron at all.

For the record, the propensity for me to do this: "painting every possible scenario as one in which you cannot possibly be wrong" is ONLY something I do where it concerns hunting scum. That's right. I FOS everyone so I can say I knew it all along in the end, at least that is the petty accusation dickholes like JIF and Verbal accuse me of. Problem for your argument is... its tied DIRECTLY to what I do as a scum hunter.

So how in the **** does that make me scum? It doesn't.

The desperation reveals the absence of logic and truth in your statements, and your insults are completely informed by those two jackasses Verb and JIF.

[Integrity28]

hell of an assumption to make... you're the doc... and you leave him open... and he ****ing dies.

and i am aggravated and i am walking away now and i will come back when the meds kick in.

i do not care what you do right now.

I don't know if you are being serious or not with the talk of needing meds. If so, why are you even playing this?

If you are just dropping that sh*t for dramatic effect, bad form.

If you are sincere, well, sorry. This is how mafia is. Might not be good for you to play, I don't know.

Take care of yourself. It's just a game.

[Integrity28]

i don't believe you're as dumb as you're pretending.

noone else sounds like me. i've typed more than enough words for you to know that.

you called me a twinkie in your first post... that was funny... and said some nasty sh*t which i expected. i was told i'd be voted off the island on day one because that's what y'all like to do to DM noobs, so i wasn't expecting a warm welcome.

did you happen to notice who was there at the time making me feel welcome?

i'll give you a ****ing clue.

he got killed last night.

and i may be a rookie scum hunter... and i could be as wrong as you've seemed to be so many times, with all your experience and all your mafia brilliance.... but you're my best guess.

and the rest of the people you play with may care enough about your threats to quit to vote on that alone.

but i don't.

What the **** does AVM making you feel welcome ahve to do with anything? Seriously?

WTF is this sh*t?

Has absolutely no bearing on the game.

Also, I play routinely over on DM and am completely cool with everyone. I've barely spoken to you about anything this game, just some goofing around, now you are going to imply I've done what? And what the **** does tthat do to make me scum exactly? I was a big meanie = I'm scum?

This is what the gamesmanship has come to here? Come on man.

[Integrity28]

I'm doing what you do Ape?

I'm teh new King of teh Mafia.

Unvote

Vote Ishy

Cindy needs to take a deep breath. I'm about 90% on her being scum, watching you manipulate her accusation, leverage hindsight and come at me puts me at 100% on you.

You've played well, buddying up to me early was a great way to stay out of my FOS, while basically keeping running list of all the things I did that would turn out to be detrimental to the town so you could throw it all at me later. Yeah, I've done the same thing a number of times.

I actually do it to JIF every time I'm scum. I buddy up to him, let him be Batman, and then let him take down the town... and then in the end, a nice narrative about all the things he's done that were anti-town, string it together and he never stands a chance.

Well played.

Hopefully, I can come out on the right side of rationality here. We'll see.

[Integrity28]

I'm out for a while.

Cindy, take a break or something. If you were being sincere about the meds and stuff. Come back with a clearer head later.

If you were lying. Tsk Tsk... would have had more respect for you if you beat me on game play alone.

[Lily]

I28 (1) – Cindy

Ishy (1) – I28

Not voting – Leelou, 80, Ishy

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline Monday 5 PM MST/ 7PM EST.

[Ishy]

I'm taking advantage of Cindy's case? Who's spinning now?

Nowhere in my case on you did I say anything about AVM, the nightkill, or you casing everyone. Those are her bulletpoints if I'm not mistaken.

I made my own case against you, thanks, chock full of my own observations and opinions. You obviously choose to disregard and ignore them, but don't insinuate I just follow everyone else around like a lost puppy. My case might seem weak to you, fine, but I ain't lazy and certainly don't need anyone making my case for me.

So there.

[Integrity28]

This. There isn't a doc in the game.

And if there is, they're horrible at playing.

This is you pushing the No Doc agenda, taking what Leelou gives the game and manipulating it.

Or another scenario:

She hit the nail on the head.

This is you pushing Cindy's case against me, again taking what she gave the game and manipulating it.

This is what scum does.

100% positive on you. Never said you were a lost puppy, I'm saying you have taken the uniformed comments, votes, cases, and outcomes of the game and manipulated them to serve your agenda.

JIF listed you and Verbal in his top 3 to distance from you. I'm surprised, but I did have CTM do that once. He got nailed D1 and listed AVM and I on D1 in his top 3. So I've seen it before.

Your case on JIF was distancing, just like his case on Verbal was distancing.

You played fantastic, but you got greedy here in the end. You should die now.

[Integrity28]

Ishy voting me and then unvoting me makes me suspect he is the last scum. No reason for him to put on airs to try to look town-concerned there, unless he knows we are working towards a mislynch with either Cindy OR me, so he has to be positioned as the pro-town guy for the next day.

Again, he is scum, he knows what to be careful of... townies don't.

[cindy]

I'm out for a while.

Cindy, take a break or something. If you were being sincere about the meds and stuff. Come back with a clearer head later.

If you were lying. Tsk Tsk... would have had more respect for you if you beat me on game play alone.

you want a note from my psychiatrist?

and i'm not irrational, even when i'm really pissed off.

for irrational it takes a very specific combination of meds and alcohol and i'm not going there.

but thanks or your concern.

[Integrity28]

you want a note from my psychiatrist?

and i'm not irrational, even when i'm really pissed off.

for irrational it takes a very specific combination of meds and alcohol and i'm not going there.

but thanks or your concern.

Why don't you keep the psychological stuff out of the game? Do you or don't you have a point of view on Ishy? If you are town, have you considered that you may be wrong about me and Ishy is just taking advantage of the fact that you already had a case on me?

Do you think he planned to come into this day coming at me? Or do you think he decided to come at me after he already saw you led-off the day with a case on me, a townie? That puts him one vote closer to his goal.

[Integrity28]

Mock outrage.

I thought for sure that Ishy was the cop after this opening post...

That's the way I'd handle it as Cop, wouldn't reveal unless I absolutely had to.

It's possible AVM is caught by Ishy and bussing JIF, especially with JIF hamming it up with this grotesque "seriously?" post.

The right thing to do is take the free kill on JIF, because AVM is either legit or bussing. Then we sort things out in the morning. If AVM is making a gambit play, they can't kill Ishy or it compromises AVM and buries him too. In this small a game, with 1 scum dead already, does scum trade 2 more players for the Cop? I don't know that they would. Unless the 4th scum is BURIED.

All that being said, the way AVM argued with me D1 does fall into the category of "survival". An approach CTM uses every time he is Cop, but usually CTM views me first then wages war with me to stay alive for as long as possible.

Final Vote Count:

AVM (1) – Ishy

JiF (6) – AVM, Crusher, 80, JiF, Cindy, I28

Not voting – Leelou, SMC, Basel, Ishy, I28

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline Friday noon MST/2PM EST

Looking back over some things.

Ishy started the D2 off with a quick vote on AVM. He made it look like what I'd do if I were a cop with an investigation result.

I almost wonder if Ishy is a scum tracker or watcher, and they figured out AVM visited JIF?

Notice JIF's train. Who isn't on it? Ishy... he tried to hammer, and whiffed on it. Then got all butthurt because it wasn't counted. Like he wanted it on the record that he hammered scum.

Now here he is with the revisionist history ACCUSING ME OF HAMMERING AND IT BEING SCUMMY, something he tried to do himself.

[Ishy]

I came into today convinced you were Town you dolt. My only agenda was to nail the last scum.

It's your complete 180 today that caused this, not any preconceived plan I had. Your split personality crap brought this about.

[Integrity28]

You're a disgusting pig.

My gut is working this game. Verbal's my bitch.

Vote Ishy

Still got my eye on Leelou though. Feel much better about you.

Yeah, Ishy leads off voting AVM... and JIF leads off voting Ishy. I would bet anything that the scum team knew AVM visited JIF.

I knew the play by Ishy and JIF felt calculated around the time AVM revealed. I just couldn't put my finger on it entirely.

Scum probably watched/tracked me N2 and saw me self protect, or saw AVM was not protected, and that's why they knew it safe to target him last night... which makes me feel better about 80 being vigilante.

[Integrity28]

I came into today convinced you were Town you dolt. My only agenda was to nail the last scum.

It's your complete 180 today that caused this, not any preconceived plan I had. Your split personality crap brought this about.

What 180?

You are accusing me of changing my mind 180 degrees from what?

[Integrity28]

24 hours till deadline and I want somebody ****ing dead. I said I thought Hatter was scum, so I can get behind this. I do find it funny how quickly JiF's train was derailed though.

Unvote. Vote Hatter.

Someone hammer this turkey please, I need blood.

Spoken like someone who knew JIF was scum and wanted to be able to come back to this statement to pin it on the uninformed townies that moved from JIF to Hatter.

Exactly how I'd do it as scum.

[Ishy]

Your 180 from playing what I thought was a logic-driven, pro-Town game to making spin fueled cases out of nothing.

Hell, you said it yourself, that you knew you looked liked the scummiest player ever today. You didn't before today, why the huge shift? You're getting greedy at the endgame.

[Integrity28]

Sigh.

Well, at least I'll get an "A" for effort and can say I figured it out, albeit clumsily and too late perhaps.

[Ishy]

Nope, you've figured out squat. You haven't found scum sir, and whether it's through my lynch today or the endgame mod report, I'll enjoy hearing you say that you're wrong.

Come at me bro.

[Integrity28]

Your 180 from playing what I thought was a logic-driven, pro-Town game to making spin fueled cases out of nothing.

Hell, you said it yourself, that you knew you looked liked the scummiest player ever today. You didn't before today, why the huge shift? You're getting greedy at the endgame.

WTF, get this sh*t out of my face... This day has been the most logical I've been all game.

My early play was all meta (which was argued about for like 20 pages) and baiting scum traps. Such a load of crap.

And my statement was that by this stage of the game townies always look scummier, in hindsight. Me in particular, because as a scum hunter I put so much aggressive posts in play. I know I'll look scummy, especially when you are summarizing my play and wrapping it in narrative to make it sound agenda driven.

This in no way constitutes an "180". You are lying.

Everyone knows my D1 play is messy, loud, and aggressive, because I'm rooting out info - and as the game goes on a scum hunter I start applying logic to the scenarios, thinking about motivations, and plays we've seen unfold. I always make an effort to become more logical towards the end. So, if I've made any change it is my usual go from aggressor to logical scum hunting approach. Town tell.

However you as accusing me of flip-flopping the opposite direction. Becasue you are full of sh*t.

[Integrity28]

Nope, you've figured out squat. You haven't found scum sir, and whether it's through my lynch today or the endgame mod report, I'll enjoy hearing you say that you're wrong.

Come at me bro.

False bravado.

Now JIF is writing posts for you. Excellent.

[Integrity28]

You've played a scum game exactly like what I typically strive for. You've actually helped me understand some of the tells I have when I'm scum, lol, now that I've seen them in action.

Good game.

[AVM]

Bah...gg all. Good luck town!

[AVM]

BTW...the past few pages desperately need AwesomeVM. --realtalk

[Ishy]

BTW...the past few pages desperately need AwesomeVM. --realtalk

Maybe if Ape hadn't killed you.

Or done his job, whichever.

[Leelou]

Why don't you keep the psychological stuff out of the game? Do you or don't you have a point of view on Ishy? If you are town, have you considered that you may be wrong about me and Ishy is just taking advantage of the fact that you already had a case on me?

Do you think he planned to come into this day coming at me? Or do you think he decided to come at me after he already saw you led-off the day with a case on me, a townie? That puts him one vote closer to his goal.

I actually thought he was going to come after me today. Just got home, finishing catching up with what I missed. I'm still leaning towards Ishy and I'm tempted to wait for 80 to come back later or tomorrow. I'd like to hear from him.