JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 don't forget he gets no credit for the good decisions like drafting Mo Wilkerson or signing Laron Landry. He absolutely gets credit/blame. He focussed on getting in defensive players, and ignored the offense for years. The problem I have is twofold, 1) I don't think you can win like that in todays NFL, 2) The defense is not even that good, considering the emphasis has been all D, to the point of ignoring the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 don't forget he gets no credit for the good decisions like drafting Mo Wilkerson or signing Laron Landry. Sure he does. There just aren't nearly enough of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 wait.... we can say a$$hole without having to use the 0 as an o??? Wow. I think only if its directed at me. I am pretty sure if its directed at anyone else, its a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 So wait...do head coaches "not make the draft picks, period"? Or does Rex deserve credit for Wilkerson? you tell me. I don't believe he makes the draft picks. But if we are playing that game, why doesn't anyone talk about the Mo pick or the Coples pick, both of which look like 10+ year starters, and Mo looks like a Pro Bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 you tell me. I don't believe he makes the draft picks. But if we are playing that game, why doesn't anyone talk about the Mo pick or the Coples pick, both of which look like 10+ year starters, and Mo looks like a Pro Bowler. Or the Wilson pick or the Ducasse pick. See how this works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 He focussed on getting in defensive players, and ignored the offense for years. I can agree with this line of criticism but will caution that there are no coaches that are masters of both sides of the ball. The day the Jets get rid of Rex, in favor of an offensive coach, is the day the defense goes to s--t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 you tell me. I don't believe he makes the draft picks. But if we are playing that game, why doesn't anyone talk about the Mo pick or the Coples pick, both of which look like 10+ year starters, and Mo looks like a Pro Bowler. Coples looks like a 10 year starter? Really? He has 2 sacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or the Wilson pick or the Ducasse pick. See how this works? starters. more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 starters. more or less. OK now i'm going to stop taking what you're saying seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 starters. more or less. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok so you want Rex to do his job and the scouts jobs too. so the head coach should have no input on players? Is that what you're saying??? Cause if thats true, I dont want you as my head coach or my GM or scout either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 don't forget he gets no credit for the good decisions like drafting Mo Wilkerson or signing Laron Landry. There isnt a lot of credit to pass around in a 5 win season. So add those to his plus column when we bash him. like with sacks, give him a half a sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think only if its directed at me. I am pretty sure if its directed at anyone else, its a problem. But can i say **** and mother****er? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can agree with this line of criticism but will caution that there are no coaches that are masters of both sides of the ball. The day the Jets get rid of Rex, in favor of an offensive coach, is the day the defense goes to s--t. See, I don't think it has to be that way. I can understand prioritizing one side or the other, but it should never be at the complete detriment to the other, AND, the weak side has to be able to do something well. Look at the Giants. Coughlin is an offensive guy. They clearly prioritized offense at first, they got Eli, they got Plax, they signed/drafted numerous WR's, they built the best oline in football for a while. BUT, at the same time, they made sure they had a defense that could rush the passer. The LB'ers have sucked forever, and the secondary has been pretty bad forever, but they always can rush the passer. In NE, Bellicheck was always a defensive guy, what did he do, built one of the more dynamic offenses int he history of the NFL. One of my biggest complaints with Rex is, I think he wants to be the star. Meaning, he almost wants an average or below average offense, so he can be the defensive genius who overcomes the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can agree with this line of criticism but will caution that there are no coaches that are masters of both sides of the ball. The day the Jets get rid of Rex, in favor of an offensive coach, is the day the defense goes to s--t. unless they get a good defensive coordinator. biggest failing by the organization is not getting Rex a good OC. And that goes beyond Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 can it be said that its a good thing the jets focused on D because with sanchez as the QB no amount of draft picks could save the offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 See, I don't think it has to be that way. I can understand prioritizing one side or the other, but it should never be at the complete detriment to the other, AND, the weak side has to be able to do something well. Look at the Giants. Coughlin is an offensive guy. They clearly prioritized offense at first, they got Eli, they got Plax, they signed/drafted numerous WR's, they built the best oline in football for a while. BUT, at the same time, they made sure they had a defense that could rush the passer. The LB'ers have sucked forever, and the secondary has been pretty bad forever, but they always can rush the passer. In NE, Bellicheck was always a defensive guy, what did he do, built one of the more dynamic offenses int he history of the NFL. One of my biggest complaints with Rex is, I think he wants to be the star. Meaning, he almost wants an average or below average offense, so he can be the defensive genius who overcomes the offense. I dont think Rex is smart enough to do this. I think Rex leaves the offense up to others and they fail because no one is a leader and takes charge of what the offense should be. again failing of the organization as a whole for not finding someone who can run the offense without Rex being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 See, I don't think it has to be that way. I can understand prioritizing one side or the other, but it should never be at the complete detriment to the other, AND, the weak side has to be able to do something well. Look at the Giants. Coughlin is an offensive guy. They clearly prioritized offense at first, they got Eli, they got Plax, they signed/drafted numerous WR's, they built the best oline in football for a while. BUT, at the same time, they made sure they had a defense that could rush the passer. The LB'ers have sucked forever, and the secondary has been pretty bad forever, but they always can rush the passer. In NE, Bellicheck was always a defensive guy, what did he do, built one of the more dynamic offenses int he history of the NFL. One of my biggest complaints with Rex is, I think he wants to be the star. Meaning, he almost wants an average or below average offense, so he can be the defensive genius who overcomes the offense. isnt that exactly what we did? get sanchez. Get holmes have an amazing offensive line. only problem is their franchise QB worked out where ours sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 unless they get a good defensive coordinator. biggest failing by the organization is not getting Rex a good OC. And that goes beyond Rex. I agree. First, Rex kept schitty. Then, he replaced him with someone worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 isnt that exactly what we did? get sanchez. Get holmes have an amazing offensive line. only problem is their franchise QB worked out where ours sucks First off, the offensive line was built before Rex got here. Second, they traded a 4th round pick for Holmes, who nobody else in football wanted. See the difference??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 starters. more or less. Not really sure Rex deserves any blame or credit for the draft...probably no more or less than the typical coach...the regime as a whole has under performed...compare versus the Casserly study numbers and the draft from 06-10 look pretty weak...nvm...the draft picks dealt away for some other team's trash. (Edited the years because Casserly's study required three years to evaluate...either way...my bet is Tanny under performed that measure even if you include his two best years 06/07) My beef with Rex is the bombastic bullsh*t he spews he and every week/season ...the lopsided football team he built that is all too reminiscent of his Dad''s defense dominated...offensively obscene teams...the product is un-watchable. Call me a purist...just hard to pretend interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I dont think Rex is smart enough to do this. I think Rex leaves the offense up to others and they fail because no one is a leader and takes charge of what the offense should be. again failing of the organization as a whole for not finding someone who can run the offense without Rex being involved. Your probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 isnt that exactly what we did? get sanchez. Get holmes have an amazing offensive line. only problem is their franchise QB worked out where ours sucks Line if far from amazing... however I am beginning to believe this is because Sanchize cant identify defenses and set blocking schemes properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 First off, the offensive line was built before Rex got here. Second, they traded a 4th round pick for Holmes, who nobody else in football wanted. See the difference??? what does that matter if it was built before he got there? They still had it so there was no reason to build it more. They got LT and Holmes both pretty good players. Greene actually looked good back in the day sometimes. Plax was even on our team lol. only difference im seeing is Eli>Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 can it be said that its a good thing the jets focused on D because with sanchez as the QB no amount of draft picks could save the offense It could be said, but it would be wrong. Regardless of who the QB is, a good surrounding cast can only help. In his second year, Sanchez was far better than he is now, not that he was good necessarily. Why? Great running game, and pretty good WR's. If you don't think a great running game and good WR's help even bad QB's, not sure what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Line if far from amazing... however I am beginning to believe this is because Sanchize cant identify defenses and set blocking schemes properly. line was amazing though. Right now they are getting old so meh of course they arnt as dominant. But i agree with the sanchez part he was never known to be the smartest i thought that was why they brought mcelroy in to help him with stuff like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I agree. First, Rex kept schitty. Then, he replaced him with someone worse. Something I felt was impossible. But... TA-DA! The 2012 Jets! I think they tried to find that guy and thought sunglasses was that guy, but for some reason its not working.... there is no reason whatsoever this team should be this bad so soon after AFC championship appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It could be said, but it would be wrong. Regardless of who the QB is, a good surrounding cast can only help. In his second year, Sanchez was far better than he is now, not that he was good necessarily. Why? Great running game, and pretty good WR's. If you don't think a great running game and good WR's help even bad QB's, not sure what to tell you. if you think masking a problem with other things is a good way to build a team your mistaken. Maybe u can mask a cb with ur pass rush but with the most important position in football "masking" just doesnt cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Something I felt was impossible. But... TA-DA! The 2012 Jets! I think they tried to find that guy and thought sunglasses was that guy, but for some reason its not working.... there is no reason whatsoever this team should be this bad so soon after AFC championship appearances. I agree, but lets be honest, those AFC championship appearences were both pretty lucky. In 2009, they lucked into the playoffs, and lucked out with the beat up bungles, and the overrated chargers. In 2010, they pulled 4 or 5 games completely out of their asses that they had no business winning. They also easily could have lost the Indy game, they got a ton of breaks in that game. But, Mangini built a talented team, and they had good veteran leadership. Rex is a good DC, and was a breath of fresh air, he pushed the right buttons with THAT group. The problem is since Rex got here, the plan has been a plan has sucked balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 if you think masking a problem with other things is a good way to build a team your mistaken. Maybe u can mask a cb with ur pass rush but with the most important position in football "masking" just doesnt cut it. Nobody is debating that, certainly not me. BUT, to say a great running game, or serious wide out threats would not help is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 can it be said that its a good thing the jets focused on D because with sanchez as the QB no amount of draft picks could save the offense I don't think so...no way to know how Sanchez develops with another HC or system...he had potential coming out and showed some big play ability early...for whatever reason...he never continued to grow...and regressed each year...would have progressed with someone different? Who knows...Jim Harbaugh seems at least capable of turning Alex Smith into a serviceable game manager...maybe someone could have/will do that for Sanchez in the future. The Jets as currently constructed...never held him accountable...at least until last week...never found the right coaches to get the most out of him...never surrounded him with enough talent...whatever excuses we want to make...maybe he just sucks but building a Top 5 defense as Rex always preaches regardless of how the QB or offense performs...is not the right way to build a team...we want a team capable of winning in multiple ways...Rex build teams to win one way...with a dominating defense...just don't see how the turns out good in the 21st century NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I don't think so...no way to know how Sanchez develops with another HC or system...he had potential coming out and showed some big play ability early...for whatever reason...he never continued to grow...and regressed each year...would have progressed with someone different? Who knows...Jim Harbaugh seems at least capable of turning Alex Smith into a serviceable game manager...maybe someone could have/will do that for Sanchez in the future. The Jets as currently constructed...never held him accountable...at least until last week...never found the right coaches to get the most out of him...never surrounded him with enough talent...whatever excuses we want to make...maybe he just sucks but building a Top 5 defense as Rex always preaches regardless of how the QB or offense performs...is not the right way to build a team...we want a team capable of winning in multiple ways...Rex build teams to win one way...with a dominating defense...just don't see how the turns out good in the 21st century NFL. I agree with all of this, ironically, we don't even have a dominating defense. Unless we play against a QB actually worse than Sanchez like last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Nobody is debating that, certainly not me. BUT, to say a great running game, or serious wide out threats would not help is wrong. well idk if u read my prior post wrong or i wrote it wrong. i was never saying an all pro rb or something wouldnt help. But it wouldnt change the fact that our most important player on the team still sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 well idk if u read my prior post wrong or i wrote it wrong. i was never saying an all pro rb or something wouldnt help. But it wouldnt change the fact that our most important player on the team still sucks I never claimed it would, but you clearly said, building up the offense would not have mattered because of how bad Sanchez is. I disagree with that, it may not have been enough, but it certainly would have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Line if far from amazing... however I am beginning to believe this is because Sanchize cant identify defenses and set blocking schemes properly. This. Plus the fact he crumbles with pressure...zero recognition...zero feel for where the pressure is coming... As far as the OL...a guy on JI posted an ESPN insider article where Pro Football Focus overall rated our OL #5 this year...plus seventh best in preventing pressure (sacks, hits and hurries) but Sanchez sucks so bad reacting to it we cannot sustain drives. I understand the team's logic in giving Sanchez another chance ($$$$) but being logical and being right are totally different concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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