How keeping Rex might AID in our GM search

[jack48]

Philbin didn't have greater than 50% of the Dolphins starting roster not under contract in a season they had no cap room and not even so much as a backup QB. Oh yeah, and the QB prospects this year supposedly suck ass.

Really, this situation is pretty unique. The light at the end of the tunnel is being the GM in 2014 without a lame-duck 2013 GM screwing up future years to try to save his own skin. So at least we got the firing Tannenbaum part right.

A new GM isn't as invested in hating Rex as much as many here are. At the very worst, he'd see Rex as an incompetent clown (if he even feels that way at all). If 2013 is a mulligan year, why set up yourself and your own guy to take blame for it?

Looking at the situation as a non-Jets fan, being force-fed Rex for 1 season might be a good thing because this force-feeding is public.

Maybe.

So, pile up some draft picks for this year and next year, and then go after som FAs next year?

[unbanmadmike1]

to take the other side of this argument why is Tomasula a defense line coach gonna be better at defense than Rex? It's not like Gamble wants to bring in Chip Kelly. He's got positional guys not even coordinator all lined up why is that such a hot idea?

I would not be on board with another defensive coach. Thats not 2012 football.

[slats]

You are calling for less wins next year even though:

- Revis will be back

- the LBer corps will be revamped

- Holmes and Keller will be back

- We'll have the 9th pick in the draft

- Sanchez will likely not be the starting QB

and I'm delusional...

No lock on Revis. New GM is going to need to decide whether he wants to try and resign him or trade him, a decision that will probably be made before the draft. Revis could easily be gone for picks.

Probably losing a couple old LBs, but there's no guarantee of an upgrade.

I'll happily give you 3 & 4...

Unfortunately, there's really no telling yet on Sanchez.

[Pac]

No lock on Revis. New GM is going to need to decide whether he wants to try and resign him or trade him, a decision that will probably be made before the draft. Revis could easily be gone for picks.

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

[Bleedin Green]

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

While a potential contract at this point might be reduced by a slight amount due to the injury, there's no reason to think it will have a significant impact on what they can get him to agree to and that's because one major factor here that influences all of this is Revis' confidence. Any of us who have listened to Revis over these past 6 years knows full well how highly he thinks of himself as a player, and I don't think there's any doubt he has all the confidence in the world that after a full year of recovery, he'll be as good as he ever was. He's essentially already been quoted as saying as much. If that is the case, he will have no incentive to put himself into a situation that doesn't pay him what he feels he deserves after this year. He'll probably know better than to think holding out or demanding a new contract this year will get him anywhere, but do you really think he doesn't see the opportunity available to him by coming back next year, playing at the level he has in the past, and then becoming a FA (which the Jets can do nothing to stop)?

Revis hitting FA after a big year is his most sure-fire guarantee to cash in big time and we all know that's his #1 concern. So the question becomes, how much is Revis going to need in order to lock him up now, before he's proven himself coming off of the injury? If it's a number beyond what our GM is willing to pay, and knowing full well that the number is only going to go up from there (barring another injury or a poor season of play), how can you not at least consider the possibility of trading him? If the Jets find themselves in a position where all signs point to Revis being gone in a year, and there's a good enough offer on the table from another team, at what point do you realize that what is essentially a one year rental of a player coming off an injury simply isn't worth passing on that offer?

[Bugg]

I read a lot of these "throw the 2013 season and play for the #1 pick" threads and it makes no sense to me. Who is the franchise QB coming out in '14? And what guarantee is there that the Jets get the #1 overall pick?

If you look at what Pete Carroll is doing in SEA - he build the Defense, OL, and the culture. The QB came in year 3. I don't see why the Jets can't do something very similar over the next few seasons.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row with a very weak QB. The key to both seasons was OL and defense. Same thing that the Texans, Seahawks, 49ers, and Bengals have. The next GM needs 2 to build a top 5 OL and find a DC that can take avg. talent and make it into a top 10 defense.

Clowney?

[slats]

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

I don't think Revis' injury effects his value very much - either in a trade or a new contract. He was never a speed player, and nowadays NFL players recover 100% from ACLs routinely. If they don't get Revis signed to an extension this year, next year he walks as a free agent, leaving the Jets to hope for a compensatory third rounder in 2015.

I think new GM needs to approach Revis about a contract, and if that contract is unreasonable for him, he needs to explore trade options sooner rather than later. A lot of fans love the player on the field but can't stand his holdouts off of it. I really don't think trading him would be too much of a public relations nightmare, especially if its framed in financial terms.

[JFtoLong]

If the most coveted new GM wants Ryan, then it aids the GM search, no?

Bullseye on Rex's back not the GM's to start.

These are two ways it aids in the GM search. You may not feel that way, and clearly you don't, but you're only looking at it through the prism of a Jets fan who hates Rex.

Still not sure how it actually aids the search to say Rex MUST stay.

If the GM has the choice to keep or fire Rex, and the coveted GM wants Rex, he keeps him, if not, he fires him, pretty straight forward.

This does not have anything to do with my hatred for Rex, I admit I think he is a very bad head coach, but this is more about our meddling owner.

To me, if I were a GM candidate, even if I liked Rex as the head coach and planned to keep him, it would be a red flag if the owner was saying I MUST keep him if I want the job, it would concern me that he likes to meddle in football decisions, ecspecially when everyone thinks he forced Tebow on the team.

To me, I would be hesitant to take a high profile GM job in NY, where the owner is going to be making football decisions. Owners are not usually football guys, Woody should not be making football decisions, I don't see how in any way this helps.

If you want to say it does not hurt, I don't agree, but in some cases it may not hurt, but I still don't see how it helps in any way.

[Sperm Edwards]

Still not sure how it actually aids the search to say Rex MUST stay.

If the GM has the choice to keep or fire Rex, and the coveted GM wants Rex, he keeps him, if not, he fires him, pretty straight forward.

This does not have anything to do with my hatred for Rex, I admit I think he is a very bad head coach, but this is more about our meddling owner.

To me, if I were a GM candidate, even if I liked Rex as the head coach and planned to keep him, it would be a red flag if the owner was saying I MUST keep him if I want the job, it would concern me that he likes to meddle in football decisions, ecspecially when everyone thinks he forced Tebow on the team.

To me, I would be hesitant to take a high profile GM job in NY, where the owner is going to be making football decisions. Owners are not usually football guys, Woody should not be making football decisions, I don't see how in any way this helps.

If you want to say it does not hurt, I don't agree, but in some cases it may not hurt, but I still don't see how it helps in any way.

Because inheriting Rex is less burden on the new GM. The way it is now, it's on Woody. If Woody says, "Well it's up to the new GM, whoever that ends up being," and said new GM is willing to give Rex another year, then it's on the new GM. This would make the new GM the fall guy for another year of Rex.

You have to look at the situation from someone else's perspective; particularly that of a non-Jets fan GM getting his first GM job. It's tough after an awful season.

I would say the only way this hurts is if a new GM, with the rest of the mess he'd walk into, still wants no part of Rex and Woody says that disqualifies the candidate or it sours the candidate on the job to the point where he turns it down.

A year of Rex creates job security for the GM and for his (eventual) hand-picked Rex replacement. GM doesn't have to risk his reputation on Rex (since he's being force-fed Rex), and the new HC (who the GM will be held accountable for as well) doesn't have to deal with a year 1 mess.

I'm telling you it's not as bad as it seems. Granted, it could be better, but it isn't the disaster you're making it out to be. The disaster is the state Tannenbaum left, not the fact that this mess comes complete with 1 year of Rex Ryan to be the lightning rod for any and all bad press covering the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

You are calling for less wins next year even though:

- Revis will be back - this is your assumption. He's only under contract for 1 more year and has mega trade value.

- the LBer corps will be revamped - it is your assumption that it will be revamped for the better in year 1.

- Holmes and Keller will be back - Holmes is a safe assumption. Keller is a FA who thinks he's worth more than a franchise tag.

- We'll have the 9th pick in the draft - yes.

- Sanchez will likely not be the starting QB - 50/50 at this point, unfortunately. As likely as not, we draft someone and Sanchez gets the nod at the start of the season.

and I'm delusional...

I would say you are likely to be wrong about one or more of these "sure things" you state. Plus you haven't addressed our 3 offensive linemen who have no contract, no RB, no FB, need another starting WR, both 2012 safeties are free agents, and we have dick in cap space (again).

It wasn't long ago you were expressing equally lofty optimism about Mark Sanchez. Likewise, it is an equally grand assumption that the 2013 Jets will automatically be better than the 2012 Jets. Particularly until it's known who the starting (or even the backup) QB is.

[jorge o8]

cut all the lb"s draft jones and A. ogletree the rest of pics on ofense send tebow to the jags for a 5th if lucky, trade holmes for a 3rd if lucky try to redo sanchez contract,man we need a lot of help

[SayNoToDMC]

cut all the lb"s draft jones and A. ogletree the rest of pics on ofense send tebow to the jags for a 5th if lucky, trade holmes for a 3rd if lucky try to redo sanchez contract,man we need a lot of help

We got Holmes for a 5th before he got the giant contract, a season ending injury and quit on his team. I don't think we could give him away for nothing at this point

[JFtoLong]

Because inheriting Rex is less burden on the new GM. The way it is now, it's on Woody. If Woody says, "Well it's up to the new GM, whoever that ends up being," and said new GM is willing to give Rex another year, then it's on the new GM. This would make the new GM the fall guy for another year of Rex.

You have to look at the situation from someone else's perspective; particularly that of a non-Jets fan GM getting his first GM job. It's tough after an awful season.

I would say the only way this hurts is if a new GM, with the rest of the mess he'd walk into, still wants no part of Rex and Woody says that disqualifies the candidate or it sours the candidate on the job to the point where he turns it down.

A year of Rex creates job security for the GM and for his (eventual) hand-picked Rex replacement. GM doesn't have to risk his reputation on Rex (since he's being force-fed Rex), and the new HC (who the GM will be held accountable for as well) doesn't have to deal with a year 1 mess.

I'm telling you it's not as bad as it seems. Granted, it could be better, but it isn't the disaster you're making it out to be. The disaster is the state Tannenbaum left, not the fact that this mess comes complete with 1 year of Rex Ryan to be the lightning rod for any and all bad press covering the Jets.

You make some good points, I am not saying I agree with everything, but I understand what you are saying.

I personally think Rex is more to blame than the disaster that is the current Jets, and that he was much more the personnel guy than Tanny, where Tanny would execute the trades, execute the contracts, and manage scouting, but Rex was making the call.

None of us will know for sure, but hopefully the new GM will have far, far more say on personnel than Rex, I think everyone can agree that Rex is a horrible talent evaluator, which to me disqualifies him as HC material, but regardless, he is a horrible talent evaluator.

[Lizard King]

The Ravens passed on Rex twice. Per Shefter, the Jets first call was Eric DeCosta. He declined, supposedly having a contract to succeed Ozzie Newsome. However, if the Ravens passed twice on Rex, because they didnt want him being the face of their franchise, having him here would logically have hurt our chances with DeCosta.

[Sperm Edwards]

You make some good points, I am not saying I agree with everything, but I understand what you are saying.

I personally think Rex is more to blame than the disaster that is the current Jets, and that he was much more the personnel guy than Tanny, where Tanny would execute the trades, execute the contracts, and manage scouting, but Rex was making the call.

None of us will know for sure, but hopefully the new GM will have far, far more say on personnel than Rex, I think everyone can agree that Rex is a horrible talent evaluator, which to me disqualifies him as HC material, but regardless, he is a horrible talent evaluator.

Belichick also has more than his share of misses as a talent evaluator. Ask any Pats fan (if you can stomach talking to all but a few) about his draft misses and boneheaded FA pickups he overpaid for. He's made a lot of good ones as well, but he's been their HC for 3x as long as Rex has been here. They've drafted 20 players in the first 3 rounds over the last 4 years and has missed at least as often (if not more often) as he's hit.

And free agents? Marcus Stroud, Albert Haynesworth, Ochocinco, Brandon Lloyd, Torry Holt, Chris Baker, Fred Taylor, Shawn Springs, Joey Galloway, Victor Hobson, Marcus Pollard, Adalius Thomas....

Everyone misses. It's not as noticeable on the Pats because they make so many picks and their homo QB is and has been an awesome all-time great. Meanwhile their pass defense sucks against non-Sanchezes and on occasion even sucks against Sanchezes with boneheads calling the plays.

It's more magnified with the Jets because we've NEEDED those picks to pan out more than they've needed (particularly when we trade up for every time they've traded down). It's magnified further not just because of the non-rookies we've extended contracts to, but the amounts of those contracts. It's a perfect storm of suck, and we still won 6 games somehow.

[Klecko73isGod]

The Ravens passed on Rex twice. Per Shefter, the Jets first call was Eric DeCosta. He declined, supposedly having a contract to succeed Ozzie Newsome. However, if the Ravens passed twice on Rex, because they didnt want him being the face of their franchise, having him here would logically have hurt our chances with DeCosta.

DeCosta not only has a deal to succeed Newsome, he's also being paid like a GM to stay. Makes his choice easy, being the heir apparent gives him job security and almost no accountability.

Who would leave that situation? DeCosta's best move is to stay put and hope Ozzie retires in the next two years.

[unbanmadmike1]

Belichick also has more than his share of misses as a talent evaluator. Ask any Pats fan (if you can stomach talking to all but a few) about his draft misses and boneheaded FA pickups he overpaid for. He's made a lot of good ones as well, but he's been their HC for 3x as long as Rex has been here. They've drafted 20 players in the first 3 rounds over the last 4 years and has missed at least as often (if not more often) as he's hit.

And free agents? Marcus Stroud, Albert Haynesworth, Ochocinco, Brandon Lloyd, Torry Holt, Chris Baker, Fred Taylor, Shawn Springs, Joey Galloway, Victor Hobson, Marcus Pollard, Adalius Thomas....

Everyone misses. It's not as noticeable on the Pats because they make so many picks and their homo QB is and has been an awesome all-time great. Meanwhile their pass defense sucks against non-Sanchezes and on occasion even sucks against Sanchezes with boneheads calling the plays.

It's more magnified with the Jets because we've NEEDED those picks to pan out more than they've needed (particularly when we trade up for every time they've traded down). It's magnified further not just because of the non-rookies we've extended contracts to, but the amounts of those contracts. It's a perfect storm of suck, and we still won 6 games somehow.

If you have a great QB and you know exactly what defense the other team is playing and where every blitz is coming from for 10 years you can win, a lot.

[Lizard King]

DeCosta not only has a deal to succeed Newsome, he's also being paid like a GM to stay. Makes his choice easy, being the heir apparent gives him job security and almost no accountability.

Who would leave that situation? DeCosta's best move is to stay put and hope Ozzie retires in the next two years.

Agreed.

Also interesting though that Newsome basically said that Rex was not their guy for that reason. He said it on a half an hour Sportscenter interview I believe.

I'll say it again; the Ryan/Gamble kinship bothers me, I hope Gamble can be the pro we need.

[jorge o8]

We got Holmes for a 5th before he got the giant contract, a season ending injury and quit on his team. I don't think we could give him away for nothing at this point

maybe we talk the panthers into two 4s?

[Klecko73isGod]

Agreed.

Also interesting though that Newsome basically said that Rex was not their guy for that reason. He said it on a half an hour Sportscenter interview I believe.

I'll say it again; the Ryan/Gamble kinship bothers me, I hope Gamble can be the pro we need.

I don't know that there's any real "kinship" between the two. Their fathers worked together with the Eagles but Harry Gamble fired Buddy Ryan partly because he was sick of Buddy blaming him for everything that went wrong.,

[Lizard King]

I don't know that there's any real "kinship" between the two. Their fathers worked together with the Eagles but Harry Gamble fired Buddy Ryan partly because he was sick of Buddy blaming him for everything that went wrong.,

Thats reassuring

I was reading theyve been friends for over 20 years.

[GimmeShelter]

Word. If the new coach is worth anything, he'll find a way to get something from a bad roster. If Rex stays one year and the inevitable full-on mutiny takes place, I just don't see how that's a positive for a new GM.

Unless we have a Redskin 2012 like draft which we won't as there are no franchise QB's coming out, we will suck in 2013 no matter what the FO and CS looks like. Sanchez and Greene would have to suddenly become top 10 players at their positions for us to be good next season.

I'd rather tear things down completely and start from scratch with a competent FO.

[JFtoLong]

Belichick also has more than his share of misses as a talent evaluator. Ask any Pats fan (if you can stomach talking to all but a few) about his draft misses and boneheaded FA pickups he overpaid for. He's made a lot of good ones as well, but he's been their HC for 3x as long as Rex has been here. They've drafted 20 players in the first 3 rounds over the last 4 years and has missed at least as often (if not more often) as he's hit.

And free agents? Marcus Stroud, Albert Haynesworth, Ochocinco, Brandon Lloyd, Torry Holt, Chris Baker, Fred Taylor, Shawn Springs, Joey Galloway, Victor Hobson, Marcus Pollard, Adalius Thomas....

Everyone misses. It's not as noticeable on the Pats because they make so many picks and their homo QB is and has been an awesome all-time great. Meanwhile their pass defense sucks against non-Sanchezes and on occasion even sucks against Sanchezes with boneheads calling the plays.

It's more magnified with the Jets because we've NEEDED those picks to pan out more than they've needed (particularly when we trade up for every time they've traded down). It's magnified further not just because of the non-rookies we've extended contracts to, but the amounts of those contracts. It's a perfect storm of suck, and we still won 6 games somehow.

Belicheck is in a league of his own.

Yes, he has had a ton of misses, but has also made gold out of many other teams coal.

Belicheck also has adapted to the NFL better than any coach has ever done.

Brady was not the Brady we think of today, when they first won the SB.

They won with opportunistic defense, and the best screen game ever.

Rex is not even in the same planet as far as Belicheck goes, and I cannot stand the SOB.

[GimmeShelter]

Belicheck is in a league of his own.

Yes, he has had a ton of misses, but has also made gold out of many other teams coal.

Belicheck also has adapted to the NFL better than any coach has ever done.

Brady was not the Brady we think of today, when they first won the SB.

They won with opportunistic defense, and the best screen game ever.

Rex is not even in the same planet as far as Belicheck goes, and I cannot stand the SOB.

LOL. Brady and video made BB.

[JFtoLong]

LOL. Brady and video made BB.

This is stupid.

Brady is great, but Brady may not be in the NFL today if not for Belicheck.

And as for the video, yawn, yeah, it was cheating, but the amount of cheating that goes on in the NFL is rediculous, they just got caught.

[GimmeShelter]

This is stupid.

Brady is great, but Brady may not be in the NFL today if not for Belicheck.

And as for the video, yawn, yeah, it was cheating, but the amount of cheating that goes on in the NFL is rediculous, they just got caught.

If Brady never takes over QB due to injury BB is the one who may not be in the NFL. How many SB rings after being caught cheating?

[JFtoLong]

If Brady never takes over QB due to injury BB is the one who may not be in the NFL. How many SB rings after being caught cheating?

I really don't feeling having this debate considering I hate Brady and Belicheck, this was about Rex, he sucks, cannot lead, horrible at talent eval, and has no clue about offense, and does not respect it enough to take the effort required to get a good OC in here to build an offense.

[SayNoToDMC]

BUUUMP

[T0mShane]

THEY'RE BEATING DOWN THE DOOR

[JFtoLong]

Rex=aid

Flexibility=overrated.

[bitonti]

I hate Brady and Belicheck, this was about Rex, he sucks, cannot lead, horrible at talent eval, and has no clue about offense,

that all might be true but he's awesome at defense. and that's something. You want to throw away a HC that's great at defense, to likely hire a HC who is great at nothing.

[JFtoLong]

that all might be true but he's awesome at defense. and that's something. You want to throw away a HC that's great at defense, to likely hire a HC who is great at nothing.

I want to throw away a HC who clearly is not a HC. He has proved that very clearly, he is a DC, and a good one, not a good HC

[pedro55]

I want to throw away a HC who clearly is not a HC. He has proved that very clearly, he is a DC, and a good one, not a good HC

As many things we can find wrong with Rex, who would you bring in to replace him? Some up and coming coach with no HC experience or some young college coach who has never coached in the NFL? I honestly wouldn't be sold on Gruden. It wasn't like Gruden is known for drafting QBs and turning them into HOF as a HC. In fact, Gruden wasn't that far different than Ryan. Except he won a super bowl his first season in Tampa. After that season, Tampa fell apart and Gruden was terrible at building a winning football team.

He's just become known as the QB guru while on tv.

For me, unless there is a candidate out there that is a can't miss with experience as a successful HC, I just don't see what you get this year by firing Rex Ryan. Bringing in some lame duck coach who gets a few years like Mangini did? How's that building a real future.

[JFtoLong]

As many things we can find wrong with Rex, who would you bring in to replace him? Some up and coming coach with no HC experience or some young college coach who has never coached in the NFL? I honestly wouldn't be sold on Gruden. It wasn't like Gruden is known for drafting QBs and turning them into HOF as a HC. In fact, Gruden wasn't that far different than Ryan. Except he won a super bowl his first season in Tampa. After that season, Tampa fell apart and Gruden was terrible at building a winning football team.

He's just become known as the QB guru while on tv.

For me, unless there is a candidate out there that is a can't miss with experience as a successful HC, I just don't see what you get this year by firing Rex Ryan. Bringing in some lame duck coach who gets a few years like Mangini did? How's that building a real future.

Rex is not a HC, every day we keep him is a day we are sure to have a below average HC.

There is no gaurantee that a new coach will be good, or better, but there is already plenty of proof that Rex is not a HC