Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I love my seats and my PSLs are paid off. I regularly sell games at a profit and my PSLs trade at a profit in the secondary. Guess what that is not a news story. 50% of PSL seats in any section were the bottom 50% of seats. Did someone who bought LLEZ, middle of aisle, drip-line seats think he was going to ever sell for a profit the psl or seats. Many sections such as club seats, ticket prices are way overpriced. Many seats such as LLEZ, LL corners, Mezz B the view is terrible. Unless you are LLGL, LLSL towards the 50 or lower row or Mezz A low row corner, aisle seats toward the 50 side your seats are a commodity that will only sell at the lowest price. I say 10,000 PSL seats were moneymakers the rest was a bad investment the day you bought them. Buyer Beware Thank you for your perspective. Good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Well I'm not going to go through a boring contract since I'm fine with my PSL but all I can say is what I was told matches what is on the web-site but I can check with the account people and find out for sure. You're going to give that poor account executive a heart attack asking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 and even if the salespeople selling the PSL's to fans did lie to them about anything, like calling this an "investment" the Jets absolve themselves of any wrongdoing and most likely would have themselves well protected if this ever goes to an arbitrator, which it will since thats where this would be handled, according to the PSL contract. I'm not sure what anyone thinks they'd be able to get by citing the Jets referring to it as an investment. It would be easy enough for them to defend that position, considering the value of the PSL could potentially increase. In that case, the owner has the freedom to sell the PSL at a profit, if they can find a buyer. Making an investment in no way guarantees any sort of return to ever be seen on that investment. That said, the point can be made that it wasn't a good investment, that's for sh*t sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Well I'm not going to go through a boring contract since I'm fine with my PSL but all I can say is what I was told matches what is on the web-site but I can check with the account people and find out for sure. You dont need to go through a boring contract, I already posted the important information. Basically the contract states that: A) If you dont pay, they will demand payment in full on default. B- It doesnt matter what is written or said elsewhere, the contract sets the terms of the PSL. Hopefully someone has a copy of the contract, because the PSL contract on the Jets website states that the full PSL payment would be due in full if there is a default. http://www.newyorkje...on-club-psl.pdf Upon termination pursuant to this Section 9, (w) Licensee will forfeit all monies previously paid to JSD hereunder, (x) Licensee will forfeit the PSL for the current (or upcoming) NFL season and all NFL seasons that follow, (y) JSD and its affiliates will have no further liability or obligation to Licensee, and (z) Licensee’s obligation to pay the outstanding balance of the PSL Fee, if any, shall be accelerated, making the full outstanding balance immediately due and payable This PSL Agreement (including the Confirmation) contains the entire agreement of the parties with respect to the matters provided for herein, and supersedes any written or oral agreement, instrument, application, promotional material, brochure, website information, or other representation previously made, distributed or entered by or on behalf of them or their respective affiliates with respect to those matters. JSD HAS NOT MADE, AND LICENSEE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT IT HAS NOT RELIED ON, ANY REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE TERMS OF THIS PSL AGREEMENT, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS PSL AGREEMENT. No amendment or modification to this PSL Agreement shall be effective unless the amendment or modification is in writing and signed by both JSD and Licensee. and even if the salespeople selling the PSL's to fans did lie to them about anything, like calling this an "investment" the Jets absolve themselves of any wrongdoing and most likely would have themselves well protected if this ever goes to an arbitrator, which it will since thats where this would be handled, according to the PSL contract. I'll even give you the relevant sections: Section 9- Defaults and Section 11 - Miscellaneous- Part 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 You're going to give that poor account executive a heart attack asking that. They probably deserve it. The Jets tried to get two payments out of me in one year. I was told I’d get a ½ year payment in March 2010 and the rest in November then each November for 4 years but the March bill was for a full payment. I called and asked why the guy said since I bought the PSL in December I was a payment behind everyone else and had to catch up. I said very angrily that was other people’s problems and I was told I’d have to pay half along with other choice words. He was kind enough to waive the first payment, what a wonderful guy, so it wouldn’t shock me if they are lying again even on their own web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 You're going to give that poor account executive a heart attack asking that. Doesnt need to ask at all. Just needs to read the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm not sure what anyone thinks they'd be able to get by citing the Jets referring to it as an investment. It would be easy enough for them to defend that position, considering the value of the PSL could potentially increase. In that case, the owner has the freedom to sell the PSL at a profit, if they can find a buyer. Making an investment in no way guarantees any sort of return to ever be seen on that investment. That said, the point can be made that it wasn't a good investment, that's for sh*t sure. I dont know either what they would do with it since investments arent guaranteed to increase in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 They probably deserve it. The Jets tried to get two payments out of me in one year. I was told I’d get a ½ year payment in March 2010 and the rest in November then each November for 4 years but the March bill was for a full payment. I called and asked why the guy said since I bought the PSL in December I was a payment behind everyone else and had to catch up. I said very angrily that was other people’s problems and I was told I’d have to pay half along with other choice words. He was kind enough to waive the first payment, what a wonderful guy, so it wouldn’t shock me if they are lying again even on their own web site. Sales people lie. In every business. Thats why its important to cut through the bullsh!t and understand the terms of what someone is signing up for. Contracts dont lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Can we please stop calling it an investment. When did we start confusing extortion with investment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 You dont need to go through a boring contract, I already posted the important information. Basically the contract states that: A) If you dont pay, they will demand payment in full on default. B- It doesnt matter what is written or said elsewhere, the contract sets the terms of the PSL. I'll even give you the relevant sections: Section 9- Defaults and Section 11 - Miscellaneous- Part 3 No a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one if an agent of the Jets explains a process and mis-leads you into signing an agreement, that agreement can be considered signed under duress or not in good faith by one party. Written/signed documents get thrown out as invalid all the time so even if it says it in the contract doesn’t always make it binding, although people should never trust the Jets. You could argue this and win or lose. That fact it is on their web-site could also void any particular clause in the contract language. But I will take a look at the clause you are referencing and see if I can get it clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Can we please stop calling it an investment. When did we start confusing extortion with investment ? Someone being foolish enough to shell out the money for that nonsensical "purchase" doesn't qualify it as extortion. There was absolutely nothing forcing anyone into doing that. I got countless calls from the Jets trying to sell me that crap and each time I was sure to let them know where they could stick those PSLs. Wasn't exactly the most difficult thing in the world to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 No a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one if an agent of the Jets explains a process and mis-leads you into signing an agreement, that agreement can be considered signed under duress or not in good faith by one party. Written/signed documents get thrown out as invalid all the time so even if it says it in the contract doesn’t always make it binding, although people should never trust the Jets. You could argue this and win or lose. That fact it is on their web-site could also void any particular clause in the contract language. But I will take a look at the clause you are referencing and see if I can get it clarified. You may be right, but given that there's a written agreement with your signature on it, the burden of proof would be on you to prove you were misled and that it was not what you agreed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Someone being foolish enough to shell out the money for that nonsensical "purchase" doesn't qualify it as extortion. There was absolutely nothing forcing anyone into doing that. I got countless calls from the Jets trying to sell me that crap and each time I was sure to let them know where they could stick those PSLs. Wasn't exactly the most difficult thing in the world to do. Just because you were resolute enough not to fall for it does not mean it wasn't extortion. That's what it is when you really look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 You may be right, but given that there's a written agreement with your signature on it, the burden of proof would be on you to prove you were misled and that it was not what you agreed to. Very true I have my contract somewhere and will try and find out what it says. The referenced web-site could be correct and it certainly could cause problems for those who signed it, even unknowingly, if the total cost falls on them. The bottom line here it the Jets are only interested in sticking it to their fans maybe if they treated the fans better they won't have a problem selling anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Very true I have my contract somewhere and will try and find out what it says. The referenced web-site could be correct and it certainly could cause problems for those who signed it, even unknowingly, if the total cost falls on them. The bottom line here it the Jets are only interested in sticking it to their fans maybe if they treated the fans better they won't have a problem selling anything. Should be really interesting hearing the details of your convo. Dont forget that in New Jersey you can record your call without disclosing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I would never give up my seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I would never give up my seats. Me neither...my couch is comfy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So you're going to throw the money you already spent down the toilet? Why? Wait a few years till the team is better and you'll get your money back. Or throw more money down the drain, while I can buy the same or bette tickets on stubhuib for less if I choose and then not pay a PSL. Besides Woody puts all the good games on holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So you're going to throw the money you already spent down the toilet? Why? Wait a few years till the team is better and you'll get your money back. time value of money is a fascinating subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 time value of money is a fascinating subject Not in this case when you're selling an asset for 20-30 cents on the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Not in this case when you're selling an asset for 20-30 cents on the dollar. you're forgetting the $3,000/year to buy tickets, parking, beer, $6 hot dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 you're forgetting the $3,000/year to buy tickets, parking, beer, $6 hot dogs You knew all that when you bought the PSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Lets get the smartest lawyer out there and class action this sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You knew all that when you bought the PSL. yes, to be entertained. clinging to some false mantle of an "investment" is illogical. you have to spend $3,000 more a year to wait for the PSL to increase in value a few grand (assuming it does)? if you're not entertained any longer due to the product on the field explain how that is rational economic behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowonejetfan Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Jets did not lie. The PSL reps Jets hired were hired guns. Most were professional PSL/Seasonticket salespeople paid mainly on commission. For fun the few reps I delt with I punched their names into linkedin and guess what you see multiple teams this folks work for, they jump around stadium to stadium selling seats. Some are now at Barclays, Knicks, Nets, Islanders, any team that has seats to sell. Jets are lousy at ticket sales. They for 45 years had stadium sold out and had a waiting list. They never sold a seat. They had folks coming to them. The PSL repos would do anything verbally to get you to buy a seat. Pretty young girls, friendly smooth talking guys. But really near me the average PSL holder is a middle aged man who has had Jets seats for many many years knows the market and is pretty financially astute. If a young 23 year old blonde got them to buy a pair of mezz A psl seats for 8K cause she threw in free parking and complimented him so be it. Same way, timeshares, vacation homes, BMWs are sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You may be right, but given that there's a written agreement with your signature on it, the burden of proof would be on you to prove you were misled and that it was not what you agreed to. Class Action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Jets did not lie. The PSL reps Jets hired were hired guns. Most were professional PSL/Seasonticket salespeople paid mainly on commission. For fun the few reps I delt with I punched their names into linkedin and guess what you see multiple teams this folks work for, they jump around stadium to stadium selling seats. Some are now at Barclays, Knicks, Nets, Islanders, any team that has seats to sell. Jets are lousy at ticket sales. They for 45 years had stadium sold out and had a waiting list. They never sold a seat. They had folks coming to them. The PSL repos would do anything verbally to get you to buy a seat. Pretty young girls, friendly smooth talking guys. But really near me the average PSL holder is a middle aged man who has had Jets seats for many many years knows the market and is pretty financially astute. If a young 23 year old blonde got them to buy a pair of mezz A psl seats for 8K cause she threw in free parking and complimented him so be it. Same way, timeshares, vacation homes, BMWs are sold. You don't want to know how they got me to buy in the coaches club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De-Jet-Erate/Duane Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You don't want to know how they got me to buy in the coaches club. You exchanged services for goods that is not buying that is bartering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You exchanged services for goods that is not buying that is bartering They held me down against my will. That was not a barter. lol.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De-Jet-Erate/Duane Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 They held me down against my will. That was not a barter. lol.......... And I am sure you enjoyed it, you would have done that for free but this way you got some tickets out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 They held me down against my will. That was not a barter. lol.......... I'm fairly certain that proclaiming "hold me down damnit... tighter!" does not qualify as "against my will". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 yes, to be entertained. clinging to some false mantle of an "investment" is illogical. you have to spend $3,000 more a year to wait for the PSL to increase in value a few grand (assuming it does)? if you're not entertained any longer due to the product on the field explain how that is rational economic behavior. You don't buy season tickets for a team expecting them to be good every year, you have to assume down years and if you don't, you're being unrealistic. I didn't buy a PSL because I didn't think it was worth it/a good investment however if you did and you sunk the money into it for the first few years, I don't see whats changed enough for you to walk away unless your financial position changes drastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 No a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one if an agent of the Jets explains a process and mis-leads you into signing an agreement, that agreement can be considered signed under duress or not in good faith by one party. Written/signed documents get thrown out as invalid all the time so even if it says it in the contract doesn’t always make it binding, although people should never trust the Jets. You could argue this and win or lose. That fact it is on their web-site could also void any particular clause in the contract language. But I will take a look at the clause you are referencing and see if I can get it clarified. I would consult a lawyer, not the jets to have it clarified if someone is seriously considering walking away from their PSL's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You may be right, but given that there's a written agreement with your signature on it, the burden of proof would be on you to prove you were misled and that it was not what you agreed to. Thats where the problem will lie with people wanting out. What exactly did they get misled by? The contract gives them the right to purchase tickets for Jets home games at home. Other than that, the contract gives them nothing. Yet the Jets get everything. You refuse to buy tickets EVEN though you paid your PSL? Goodbye PSL. You refuse to pay PSL? Goodbye money, PSL and they want payment in full. Pretty much the contract is a big a$$f#cking without any lube and people were willing to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You don't want to know how they got me to buy in the coaches club. And still no press passes. You sir are a terrible negotiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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