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gEYno

This weekend's losing teams....

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Averaged 30.5 points.

The winners averaged 38.5 points.

The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season.

So, does defense even really matter anymore?

Not really, this is why Rex is so clueless.

This has been obvious for 5 years now, and he insists on ignoring the offense to build an average defense, and a ground and pound offense.

In todays NFL if you cannot score at will, you dont win.

The fact that any HC, let alone ours, does not get this, and gets paid millions per year is disturbing.

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Somewhere Rex was watching these games saying..." they'd never do this to MY defense....that will never change and that's the problem.

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Nope. Let's lock up all our salary in the CB position!!!

Actually if there's a defensive position to lock up it would be a game changing CB at this point unless there's a Von Miller/Terrell Suggs/DeMarcus Ware/Justin Smith/Vince Wilfork/Haloti Ngata/Willis level player in the front 7.

Fact is, with teams passing so much a great CB like Revis can have the kind of impact a great front 7 pass rusher has. His 2009 and 2010 put him in the discussion for best defensive player in the league. The problem the Jets have had is that the offense doesn't cover the fact that there is no great front 7 pass rusher on the Jets.

Dare I say: CB should be the new LT as far as paychecks go. They basically have to be the WR but with may more room for a penalty.

Edited by SenorGato

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Averaged 30.5 points.

The winners averaged 38.5 points.

The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season.

So, does defense even really matter anymore?

in the 4th quarter when you need a big stop or a big play or a timely QB sack when it counts yes defense matters.

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Right. Here's the top 12 teams ranked in scoring defense and their offensive ranking;

1. Seahawks

2. Niners

3. Bears

4. Broncos

5. Falcons

6. Steelers

7. Dolphins

8. Bengals

9. Patriots

10. Texans

11. Packers

12. Ravens

What a strange coincidence that all 8 teams that played this weekend happened to all have top 12 defenses. (Yes, all these teams were also in the top half of scoring offensive teams, but let's not go pretending that defense is completely irrelevant. As it's obviously not.)

Scoring Defense is a fuzzy stat that, in large part, can be manipulated with Offensive Time if Possession. The TOP rankings pretty much follow the Scoring Defense rankings.

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Right. Here's the top 12 teams ranked in scoring defense and their offensive ranking;

1. Seahawks

2. Niners

3. Bears

4. Broncos

5. Falcons

6. Steelers

7. Dolphins

8. Bengals

9. Patriots

10. Texans

11. Packers

12. Ravens

What a strange coincidence that all 8 teams that played this weekend happened to all have top 12 defenses. (Yes, all these teams were also in the top half of scoring offensive teams, but let's not go pretending that defense is completely irrelevant. As it's obviously not.)

Of course defense matters, but, in todays NFL, here is how I see it:

Great Offense, you can still win with no defense, pats almost won the superbowl last year with this combo

Good Offense, you need to play some defense, but you don't have to be great.

Average Offense, you need to play elite level defense to be a serious threat

Below average offense, it does not really matter how good your defense is, you cannot win

Terrible offense, see the Jets

Offense has become much more important in todays NFL, but of course defense will always have its place.

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Scoring Defense is a fuzzy stat that, in large part, can be manipulated with Offensive Time if Possession. The TOP rankings pretty much follow the Scoring Defense rankings.

Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though.

The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns.

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Actually if there's a defensive position to lock up it would be a game changing CB at this point unless there's a Von Miller/Terrell Suggs/DeMarcus Ware/Justin Smith/Vince Wilfork/Haloti Ngata/Willis level player in the front 7.

Fact is, with teams passing so much a great CB like Revis can have the kind of impact a great front 7 pass rusher has. His 2009 and 2010 put him in the discussion for best defensive player in the league. The problem the Jets have had is that the offense doesn't cover the fact that there is no great front 7 pass rusher on the Jets.

Dare I say: CB should be the new LT as far as paychecks go. They basically have to be the WR but with may more room for a penalty.

In general, I don't disagree with you, however in our unique circumstance having 2 CBs that can lock-down WRs and absolutely no offense of our own to score points is, well, pointless.

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Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though.

The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns.

Sure there is. Special teams affect ppg by yardage they may give up or not,or scores they may give up. Offenses (the jets!) give up scores too.

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Sure there is. Special teams affect ppg by yardage they may give up or not,or scores they may give up. Offenses (the jets!) give up scores too.

Sure but over 16 games it is reliable enough to rank teams.

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Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though.

The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns.

I'm not arguing math with a man who believes that 1. PSLs are great investments and 2. thought that Cleveland could win without Lebron.

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Baltimores defense was a big reason they won.

The Broncos pulling in the horns with timeouts and 30 odd seconds at the ends of both halves was arguably why they lost. Pussyball and leaving it to the defense loses. How FOx or Manniong or both did that is really mindboggling.

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ya need

The Broncos pulling in the horns with timeouts and 30 odd seconds at the ends of both halves was arguably why they lost. Pussyball and leaving it to the defense loses. How FOx or Manniong or both did that is really mindboggling.

Manning was throwing balloons out there all game. with 30 secs left it's a good way to get a 38 year old QB picked off.

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I'm not arguing math with a man who believes that 1. PSLs are great investments and 2. thought that Cleveland could win without Lebron.

Please tell me when I ever said PSL's are a good investment... I just love my seats and without PSL's I would never have had them.

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Last year, the Giants beat the high scoring Patriots 21-17 in the Super Bowl. Defense probably had something to do with their win.

Yup, defense and dropped passes.

And the Giants offense was a very good offense last year.

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Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45.

In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry.

A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks).

Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them.

You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores.

***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing.

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Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45.

In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry.

A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks).

Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them.

You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores.

***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing.

This is all true. And utterly lost on Wrecks Ryan. Screw ruels changes it will always be 1975 with the Ryans, winning 13-10 with their 4-6 defense.Truth is there are enough bad teams that you can win 9-10 games with a bit of luck doing that but you won't win anything in the postseason. Wrecks is the beeper salesman in an iphone world.

Notice there were a whole hsot of supposed great pass rushers who the last 2 weeks were negated-Hawk, Matthews, Abraham. Watt, Freeney. So the exact great white whale Wrecks keeps chasing in the draft isn't all that important a commodity on draft day,a nd not nearly so as a QB.

Edited by Bugg

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Being able to play defense at an elite level still makes a difference in this league. Of course, doing so at the expense of the offense also makes a difference.

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Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45.

In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry.

A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks).

Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them.

You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores.

***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing.

This is exactly right.

In todays NFL, almost any defense can be scored upon with the right game plan.

The rules are just too favorable for the offense.

The one thing that is very difficult to negate is a fierce pass rush, which ironically we have nothing even close to that.

As much as I hate Belicheck, you have to give him credit for being known as one of the great defensive minds of all time, but making the move to an offensive football team given the rules.

And, he pretty much did it as soon as the league setup the rules because of what his defense was doing to the Colts.

I know he has not won a SB with this model yet, but he was a few miracles going against him away from winning 2 more with this strategy.

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