This weekend's losing teams....

[Jetsfan80]

The Dude, Where is my Car? of message boards?

Yeah that.

[SenorGato]

Hahaha... yeah, possibly before I got here? I dunno. He's funny sometimes. Mostly he makes himself laugh the hardest. There's no value in that.

Lol without value here we are discussing me rather than how bad it is to have good players because the Jets don't have THE good player.

[Integrity28]

I can't speak for the Ape, but not one of my criticisms comes from these moron reporters.

I think it's pretty well established that my disgruntled outlook needs ZERO abetting from reporters.

Maybe we need to be high to get it?

Without question. High and stupid.

[Integrity28]

Lol without value here we are discussing me rather than how bad it is to have good players because the Jets don't have THE good player.

You are pretty awful at forming sentences and twisting the debate back to what you want to center on. You'll have to find another sucker to debate the value of the QB thing or whatever wave of contrarian nonsense you are riding... I think it's more relevant to discuss the lack of value YOU represent by being marginally funny.

[SenorGato]

Stop being a **** Ape, there's no need for your continued feminate insults because I make you feel funny and a little moist down there.

[Lil Bit Special]

Calm down kiddies. We got 8 months of this crap. dont get banned now

[SenorGato]

You are pretty awful at forming sentences and twisting the debate back to what you want to center on. You'll have to find another sucker to debate the value of the QB thing or whatever wave of contrarian nonsense you are riding... I think it's more relevant to discuss the lack of value YOU represent by being marginally funny.

Actually the one who brought up Cromartie was you. I just found it amazing that you, someone so convinced of owning superior something, actually convinced yourself that having two star CBs should be viewed as an issue that needs to be solved. Let's ignore that one of those CBs is an elite even amongst the elites in the league at any position as that is more convenient for your drivel.

[Jetsfan80]

Calm down kiddies. We got 8 months of this crap. dont get banned now

Agreed. Let's just put Gato and Ape on double secret probation and be done with it.

[#27TheDominator]

Agreed. Let's just put Gato and Ape on double secret probation and be done with it.

**** that. The buzzword these days is transparency.

[SenorGato]

I can't speak for the Ape, but not one of my criticisms comes from these moron reporters.

The criticism is deeply rooted in what is "reported" to us during these past two unwatchable seasons.

[Jetsfan80]

The criticism is deeply rooted in what is "reported" to us during these past two unwatchable seasons.

The bold is all that matters. Not what was reported; an 8-8 season and a 6-10 season, primarily occurring because of horrible QB play (and thus, no scoring). I don't give a sh*t what the beat writers have to say about it.

[SenorGato]

The bold is all that matters. Not what was reported; an 8-8 season and a 6-10 season, primarily occurring because of horrible QB play (and thus, no scoring). I don't give a sh*t what the beat writers have to say about it.

I gifted you the bold to tell you you overvalue the predictive value of the previous season's record.

This is a team that lost their DeMarcus Ware/Haloti Ngata/Justin Smith/etc on D when they lost Revis. They lost the only offensive skill

Player who has done anything above average on the roster, AND their best non-skill player on offense (Mangold) has had back to back mediocre seasons. Bounce backs and returns should give a significant boost to the roster.

From there it's a matter of New GM working his personnel expert magic and continuing to add talent to the roster. This isn't some sh*t show multi-year rebuild here. A competent hand can have this team making noise is no time.

[Jetsfan80]

I gifted you the bold to tell you you overvalue the predictive value of the previous season's record.

This is a team that lost their DeMarcus Ware/Haloti Ngata/Justin Smith/etc on D when they lost Revis. They lost the only offensive skill

Player who has done anything above average on the roster, AND their best non-skill player on offense (Mangold) has had back to back mediocre seasons. Bounce backs and returns should give a significant boost to the roster.

From there it's a matter of New GM working his personnel expert magic and continuing to add talent to the roster.

None of this matters without a QB. We had tons of talent in 2009 and 2010 and still only ended up as the Wild Card both times. Would having Revis and Holmes have vaulted us to a 9-7 record? Maybe. But it wouldn't be good enough if we're looking to win a Super Bowl.

[ZachEY]

I can't speak for the Ape, but not one of my criticisms comes from these moron reporters.

One only needs to watch the games themselves.

[Integrity28]

Stop being a **** Ape, there's no need for your continued feminate insults because I make you feel funny and a little moist down there.

Wow. All I'm saying is you could be funnier and less redundant.

This is the type of thing Max ride my butt about... but he'll probably ignore it for you.

Actually the one who brought up Cromartie was you. I just found it amazing that you, someone so convinced of owning superior something, actually convinced yourself that having two star CBs should be viewed as an issue that needs to be solved. Let's ignore that one of those CBs is an elite even amongst the elites in the league at any position as that is more convenient for your drivel.

What are you talking about? I complimented you are the new contrarian platform I've noticed you taking on. You are flailing to turn it into a debate about specific stuff I could honestly care less about. Your opinion is one of the least valuable on the site, regarding football, given your reputation for disingenuously arguing the opposing side no matter what you truly think.

[SenorGato]

1) Don't care how they get into the playoffs. Nobody cared then and now suddenly it's an issue.

2) Colin Kapernik, Joe Flacco, and Matt Ryan are three of the 4 guys vying to be a SB QB this year.

Yes the Jets need a QB. No they should not work with the mindset that a great one is the only way to get the job done. This franchise has gotten just as close as the Ravens and 49ers (though its

more impressive how they did it because greener pastures) have to the SB in very recent years with the likes of Mark Sanchez working his hardest to stop it.

Get less mistakes out of the QB position, up the talent where the draft and FA allows on the roster, and this team is back in a position to make noise. The 2012 record has minor predictive value at best... If anything New GM knows this is a 6 win team without their best players on either side of the ball.

[Integrity28]

The criticism is deeply rooted in what is "reported" to us during these past two unwatchable seasons.

I was bitching about Rex when the media lauded him as the golden god of new york. Occasionally I respond to what the press writes, but in my case, I usually have an independent point of view and reach it before the hoard. Your criticism of the majority may be spot on, but they don't apply to me... and how is it relevant any way? You are flipping out because I tipped my cap to your trolling, you baby.

[#27TheDominator]

I was bitching about Rex when the media lauded him as the golden god of new york. Occasionally I respond to what the press writes, but in my case, I usually have an independent point of view and reach it before the hoard. Your criticism of the majority may be spot on, but they don't apply to me... and how is it relevant any way? You are flipping out because I tipped my cap to your trolling, you baby.

My hero. You were complaining that he was a clown that couldn't win when we were a half away from the super bowl? You must be so proud that you got there before this mob of sheep.

[Integrity28]

My hero. You were complaining that he was a clown that couldn't win when we were a half away from the super bowl? You must be so proud that you got there before this mob of sheep.

I was complaining about his neglect of the offensive side of the ball and I was complaining that he got us within 30 minutes of the SB and flopped. His defense choked vs. Manning and vs. Mendenhall. I never said I wasn't enjoying the ride in the playoffs, but I saw them for what they were. Failures.

[#27TheDominator]

I was complaining about his neglect of the offensive side of the ball and I was complaining that he got us within 30 minutes of the SB and flopped. His defense choked vs. Manning and vs. Mendenhall. I never said I wasn't enjoying the ride in the playoffs, but I saw them for what they were. Failures.

If they were failures than so are all these teams you're all sucking off now. The Redskins, Niners, Ravens, Seahawks, Falcons, Texans, Vikings, Broncos, Bengals and Colts are all consumate failures by that definition. Of all the teams in the playoffs only the Packers and Patriots have won the big one under their current adminstration and the Pats haven't done it since 2004

[SenorGato]

I was saying most of the same stuff back then. That should be sufficient reference for you on how valuable your football opinion is.

[SenorGato]

If they were failures than so are all these teams you're all sucking off now. The Redskins, Niners, Ravens, Seahawks, Falcons, Texans, Vikings, Broncos, Bengals and Colts are all consumate failures by that definition. Of all the teams in the playoffs only the Packers and Patriots have won the big one under their current adminstration and the Pats haven't done it since 2004

It's different for those teams.

[Integrity28]

If they were failures than so are all these teams you're all sucking off now. The Redskins, Niners, Ravens, Seahawks, Falcons, Texans, Vikings, Broncos, Bengals and Colts are all consumate failures by that definition. Of all the teams in the playoffs only the Packers and Patriots have won the big one under their current adminstration and the Pats haven't done it since 2004

Not winning the SB is a failure. Everything else is just rationalization.

I'm not sucking off anything and who is "you all"? Don't lump me in with the hoard. If you disagree with something I've said, then contest it, but don't start this crap where you take on the counterpoint to a bigger argument that I'm not even taking part in just because you need another adversary to repeat yourself to without consideration to any other points of view.

[Integrity28]

I was saying most of the same stuff back then. That should be sufficient reference for you on how valuable your football opinion is.

Pretty sure you were still yammering about players playing and coaches not mattering.

It's different for those teams.

Again, not my argument. When you guys do this it's like you take one side of the argument, and then you put words in the mouth of the other person. You don't even need the other person present.. You can go round and round on your own. Like masterbation.

[#27TheDominator]

Not winning the SB is a failure. Everything else is just rationalization.

I'm not sucking off anything and who is "you all"? Don't lump me in with the hoard. If you disagree with something I've said, then contest it, but don't start this crap where you take on the counterpoint to a bigger argument that I'm not even taking part in just because you need another adversary to repeat yourself to without consideration to any other points of view.

Okay, forget the hoard. By your estimation there are 5 successful teams in the league and out of those only two made the playoffs. If there are only 2 successful teams in the playoffs why should we all get wound up like a bunch of bitches because we missed them this year? Woe is me! The Jets coaches and owners are idiots because they aren't successful. That is your oft stated viewpoint, isn't it?

[SenorGato]

Okay, forget the hoard. By your estimation there are 5 successful teams in the league and out of those only two made the playoffs. If there are only 2 successful teams in the playoffs why should we all get wound up like a bunch of bitches because we missed them this year? Woe is me! The Jets coaches and owners are idiots because they aren't successful. That is your oft stated viewpoint, isn't it?

Dammit, it's different.

[Integrity28]

Okay, forget the hoard. By your estimation there are 5 successful teams in the league and out of those only two made the playoffs. If there are only 2 successful teams in the playoffs why should we all get wound up like a bunch of bitches because we missed them this year? Woe is me! The Jets coaches and owners are idiots because they aren't successful. That is your oft stated viewpoint, isn't it?

By my estimation there is 1 successful team each year. The champion.

There is a smaller handful of teams that were respectable. Those are the playoff teams.

There's a bunch of teams that were insignificant. Non-playoff teams 6-8 wins trending up.

There's a small group of teams that are a mess. Non-playoff teams 2-6 wins trending down, rapidly.

I feel like the Jets went from respectable in Rex's first two years, to a mess that is trending down rapidly in his second two years.

I never said any of what you just wrote.

[Integrity28]

I think a lot of people lump successful and respectable into the same category. I do not. Winning it all is the only success. Everything else is rationalization. That said, if you don't win it all at least garner respect. Have a chance.

We aren't in that class right now. I think it is fair that fans express varying amounts of displeasure with that.

I don't recall acting like a "bitch" myself about it. I try to discuss this stuff constructively when I do talk about it, though, and sometimes constructive conversation just doesn't mesh in an environment where low-brow debate experts need everything to be polarized in order to maintain their sense of position.

[SenorGato]

Pretty sure you were still yammering about players playing and coaches not mattering.

As convenient as it would be for you that I be involved in only one football discussion in almost a decade of this nonsense, no. OTOH dummy about to PMS about words being forced into the mouth, I would love to see this quote of mine where coaching doesn't matter.

Again, not my argument. When you guys do this it's like you take one side of the argument, and then you put words in the mouth of the other person. You don't even need the other person present.. You can go round and round on your own. Like masterbation.

Masturbation* your intellectually superior excellence...Damn you're so not what you think you are. Also your argument is neither reasonable or well thought out, whatever it was.

[#27TheDominator]

By my estimation there is 1 successful team each year. The champion.

There is a smaller handful of teams that were respectable. Those are the playoff teams.

There's a bunch of teams that were insignificant. Non-playoff teams 6-8 wins trending up.

There's a small group of teams that are a mess. Non-playoff teams 2-6 wins trending down, rapidly.

I feel like the Jets went from respectable in Rex's first two years, to a mess that is trending down rapidly in his second two years.

I never said any of what you just wrote.

They trending down, but only lost 8 in his 3rd year. You didn't list that as an option. They have trended down, but not "rapidly". I will agree that the reason we are all in a tizzy is the trending part, but there is some truth to something I've been saying since last offseason. I keep saying it and nobody seems to agree or disagree, but I think you have to admit there is some truth to it, just dispute the amount of value. The Jets were good and trending up in 2009 and 2010. In 2011, they failed and tanked a bit at the end, but they were 8-8. They weren't terrible. There were issues to be dealt with, such as the mutiny at WR and lack of speed on D, but there was no iron-clad reason to gut the team and build it in whatever new mold they wanted.

Normally a new coach comes in and takes over a sh*tty team and molds it. Sometimes a coach comes in and takes over a good team and we see what they can do - Rex, Nolan, Gruden in TB. Once the team is bad enough they can put their imprint on it. This is the year I give Rex to gut the bad and see if we can trend back upward. That shouldn't be a problem because there aren't any rare talents we are scared to lose or waste. The problem is not ****ing up the future cap to do it. There is talent on this team, but with a bunch of people yelling we should trade Revis and any other chip, I don't see the big deal in letting Rex try and turn it around.

[#27TheDominator]

I think a lot of people lump successful and respectable into the same category. I do not. Winning it all is the only success. Everything else is rationalization. That said, if you don't win it all at least garner respect. Have a chance.

We aren't in that class right now. I think it is fair that fans express varying amounts of displeasure with that.

I don't recall acting like a "bitch" myself about it. I try to discuss this stuff constructively when I do talk about it, though, and sometimes constructive conversation just doesn't mesh in an environment where low-brow debate experts need everything to be polarized in order to maintain their sense of position.

We never think we're the ones being the bitch, but by any objective reading this entire board is a bitchfest.

[Integrity28]

As convenient as it would be for you that I be involved in only one football discussion in almost a decade of this nonsense, no. OTOH dummy about to PMS about words being forced into the mouth, I would love to see this quote of mine where coaching doesn't matter.

Masturbation* your intellectually superior excellence...Damn you're so not what you think you are. Also your argument is neither reasonable or well thought out, whatever it was.

Schotty arguments for like 6 years. GFY

I spelled masturbation wrong and you caught me? YOU WIN.

Keep the targets moving, that's the way to troll it... I feel like I'm giving you a good tune up, you've been sucking for a couple months now.

[Lil Bit Special]

[SenorGato]

Completely agreed on the "once a team is bad enough..." stuff Dom. That is exactly where I feel Rex is, and why Im not gung ho on firing Rex. We're already seeing his imprint on D with the Wilkerson/Coples duo on the DL as well as the improved play of DBs, JAG and star talent alike.

[Integrity28]

They trending down, but only lost 8 in his 3rd year. You didn't list that as an option. They have trended down, but not "rapidly". I will agree that the reason we are all in a tizzy is the trending part, but there is some truth to something I've been saying since last offseason. I keep saying it and nobody seems to agree or disagree, but I think you have to admit there is some truth to it, just dispute the amount of value. The Jets were good and trending up in 2009 and 2010. In 2011, they failed and tanked a bit at the end, but they were 8-8. They weren't terrible. There were issues to be dealt with, such as the mutiny at WR and lack of speed on D, but there was no iron-clad reason to gut the team and build it in whatever new mold they wanted.

Normally a new coach comes in and takes over a sh*tty team and molds it. Sometimes a coach comes in and takes over a good team and we see what they can do - Rex, Nolan, Gruden in TB. Once the team is bad enough they can put their imprint on it. This is the year I give Rex to gut the bad and see if we can trend back upward. That shouldn't be a problem because there aren't any rare talents we are scared to lose or waste. The problem is not ****ing up the future cap to do it. There is talent on this team, but with a bunch of people yelling we should trade Revis and any other chip, I don't see the big deal in letting Rex try and turn it around.

Skipped a line - I've got a train to catch, I'm not exactly giving this 100%

The point is. If you want to discuss something with me, ask my point of view, rather than telling me what it is. You are more than likely going to get an actual point of view rather than the summarized rantings of the majority here.

I think the people trying to discuss the pros and cons of trading someone like Revis get lumped in with the hysterical over-reactors. Like I said, people need things to be polarized in order to maintain their sense of position. I work the middle a lot, I feel like you gain more insight that way... and it's not like being right or wrong matters. When you see me touting that "I was right" crap it's because I'm trolling.