Laron Landry

[Lupz27]

I think it's funny that Lupz is convinced that Luck was a big secret and that the Colts were unaware of where their 1-15 path would take them.

Right now the top senior QB prospect for 2014 is Logan Thomas....A Heheheh.

?

I just said the Colts knew 100% what they were doing by starting C Painter, if they didn't plan on sucking for Luck they would have gotten a competent QB who could have won them 4-8 games.

[#27TheDominator]

it depends on the definition of the word quality. the type of deal we want isn't the type of deal we are gonna see. It's not gonna be an RG3 or Hershal walker type of deal. not after the injury.

It goes well beyond the injury. If Revis were locked up somebody might take a chance on him. I think the odds of recovery are very good. What team is going to want to deal with his salary demands? They don't just have to give us the alleged crapload of picks, but they have to pay the man and he will want Fair Market Value. Revis is not going to be lowballed. He's certainly proven that.

[SenorGato]

?

I just said the Colts knew 100% what they were doing by starting C Painter, if they didn't plan on sucking for Luck they would have gotten a competent QB who could have won them 4-8 games.

There is no Andrew Luck in 2014. There is no Andrew Luck in 2015. There is no Andrew Luck in 2016. There won't be an Andrew Luck for a while.

[Lupz27]

better than Teddy? i don't know. Maybe. He plays a different position and really ironman'ed through the end of the season through alot of bad injuries. Think about it Louisville beat Florida. that's not really supposed to happen.

I personally think Teddy will come with A LOT of the Cam Newton headaches, and will not interview well, and could also come off as a hood rat. Just some non football observations I have made.

[Lupz27]

There is no Andrew Luck in 2014. There is no Andrew Luck in 2015. There is no Andrew Luck in 2016. There won't be an Andrew Luck for a while.

No but there is an RGIII!

[bitonti]

I personally think Teddy will come with A LOT of the Cam Newton headaches, and will not interview well, and could also come off as a hood rat. Just some non football observations I have made.

man. i wish the QB of the Jets was Cam Newton.

[Lupz27]

man. i wish the QB of the Jets was Cam Newton.

Talent wise **** yea, but I was talking off field issues about Teddy, talent aside, it might be the difference between going 1, or 2, but I also forgot Johnny had a off field incident to, but Teddy never had an off field incident, but his life off the field could be considered a distraction with his background, family, and people he surrounds himself with.

[SenorGato]

No but there is an RGIII!

Oh rly, who?

Just as a heads up...one year in and RGIII is a serious candidate for knee surgery. Yay.

[Bleedin Green]

it depends on the definition of the word quality. the type of deal we want isn't the type of deal we are gonna see. It's not gonna be an RG3 or Hershal walker type of deal. not after the injury.

What kind of comparison is that? You're talking about two of the biggest trade hauls of all time. No sh*t they're not getting that, and nobody would ever get that for any CB no matter how healthy he was.

You keep saying that the Jets can't possibly trade Revis, and lecturing anyone who dares think it's something worth considering. Yet your entire point is based on assumptions that the Jets will only get what you deem to be poor offers for Revis. Nobody knows what offers the Jets will get and that's the point of this discussion, to consider how the Jets should react based on the various different possible sets of circumstances, and most here have more than freely admitted that the Jets should only consider trading him for the right offer.

Forget your assumptions for a moment and consider this possibility: let's say the new GM comes in and starts up contract negotiations with Revis' agent. His agent says that Revis is looking for $16 million/year and wants the new contract before the season starts, otherwise he's going to test FA next year because he knows he can get that (or more) there. A team calls you up and offers you one first round pick (let's say in the early 20s) in this year's draft. Both of these things are within the realm of possibility. In this case, what do you think the GM should do?

[bitonti]

Oh rly, who?

Just as a heads up...one year in and RGIII is a serious candidate for knee surgery. Yay.

his second on the same knee.

[Bleedin Green]

It goes well beyond the injury. If Revis were locked up somebody might take a chance on him. I think the odds of recovery are very good. What team is going to want to deal with his salary demands? They don't just have to give us the alleged crapload of picks, but they have to pay the man and he will want Fair Market Value. Revis is not going to be lowballed. He's certainly proven that.

Actually, Revis has shown he wants more than fair market value. That's why I think there's a chance the Jets offers for Revis won't be great in which case, I have said numerous times that you don't make the move then. However, there is a massive difference between that and saying "I am assuming that all offers for Revis will suck, so the Jets should refuse to even listen to any offers", all while admonishing those who dare think the Jets should at least consider the possibility.

All it takes is one team who thinks Revis is worth it all and you can't assume that won't come. If it does, keeping Revis on while not signing him to a new contract provides absolutely no long term benefit to this team whatsoever.

[bitonti]

Nobody knows what offers the Jets will get and that's the point of this discussion

we've seen multiple firsts thrown around the message board. that's not gonna happen. It's true that no one really knows the trade market exactly but we can gage it. The contract status is a huge problem as #27dominator points out. A team is gonna have to pony up a pick AND pay him huge money. Usually these deals happen with guys on their rookie deals. Cro and holmes for example were on the tail ends of their rookie deals.

Forget your assumptions for a moment and consider this possibility: let's say the new GM comes in and starts up contract negotiations with Revis' agent. His agent says that Revis is looking for $16 million/year and wants the new contract before the season starts, otherwise he's going to test FA next year because he knows he can get that (or more) there. A team calls you up and offers you one first round pick (let's say in the early 20s) in this year's draft. Both of these things are within the realm of possibility. In this case, what do you think the GM should do?

negotiations are a process. if he starts at 16 that means he will agree to 12. If he really wanted 16 he'd start at 20. It's a give and take. All agents do it.

But let's say for the sake of argument, Revis' agent asks for something crazy and won't budge. And let's say Denver wants Revis (to move Champ to safety). Who are they gonna get with that pick? I'd personally rather have Revis.

By the way the fact that Revis is asking for the world makes his value even lower, in this scenario. Who would want to trade for a star player represented by a delusional agent?

Im not saying don't listen to offers. I am saying that it's never gonna be a value proposition for the Jets to trade this player, at this time. Your hopes are way up. if we had a time machine the time to trade Revis was 2 seasons ago.

btw the player for pick deal exists purely to screw the team getting the player. No one in the NFL trades a great player in his prime with no problems, for alot of picks, and then is very happy afterward. Trading Revis is a low leverage situation for the Jets.

[SenorGato]

When did Revis show he wanted more than fair value? What determines that?

[#27TheDominator]

Actually, Revis has shown he wants more than fair market value. That's why I think there's a chance the Jets offers for Revis won't be great in which case, I have said numerous times that you don't make the move then. However, there is a massive difference between that and saying "I am assuming that all offers for Revis will suck, so the Jets should refuse to even listen to any offers", all while admonishing those who dare think the Jets should at least consider the possibility.

All it takes is one team who thinks Revis is worth it all and you can't assume that won't come. If it does, keeping Revis on while not signing him to a new contract provides absolutely no long term benefit to this team whatsoever.

Look at it from the other side. I'm not admonishing anybody for saying we should look into it. I'm admonishing the people saying WE MUST MOVE REVIS and/or WE MUST MOVE CROMARTIE! Think what you want, but they are legion and they keep complaining about any of us that say it might not be the best idea. The board consensus is apparently that a Revis trade will net a Hershel Walker/Ricky Williams haul. it might, but Sanchez might turn into an NFL QB. We both know that neither is ****ing likely.

[Bleedin Green]

When did Revis show he wanted more than fair value? What determines that?

When he held out (again) and demanded a contract that was $4 million / year more than what every other #1 CB in the league was getting on the already over-inflated FA market, outside of one contract by the Raiders that was about to expire and had been deemed to be a completely idiotic abomination league-wide.

[SenorGato]

what every other #1 CB in the league

Revis >>>>>>>>>>>> "every other #1 CB in the league" when he's on the field.

[#27TheDominator]

When he held out (again) and demanded a contract that was $4 million / year more than what every other #1 CB in the league was getting on the already over-inflated FA market, outside of one contract by the Raiders that was about to expire and had been deemed to be a completely idiotic abomination league-wide.

So he asked for the second highest deal for a CB?

[Bleedin Green]

Im not saying don't listen to offers. I am saying that it's never gonna be a value proposition for the Jets to trade this player, at this time. Your hopes are way up. if we had a time machine the time to trade Revis was 2 seasons ago.

And the bold is exactly why I will never be able to agree with you on topics like this. Your entire premise is based on your assumptions that you seem to think everyone else must concede to. The Jets are standing in a situation that's likely to end with a player returning for an injury walking out the door in a year from now. Again, all it takes is one team thinking Revis is worth it all and the Jets go from one year of Revis coming off of injury on a team that's destined to go nowhere plus the last pick in the 3rd round in 2015 to whatever it is they can get in an offer. I'm not saying that offer is guaranteed to be something amazing, but truth be told, it doesn't exactly take some all-time great package of players and picks to make it the better choice for the future of this team.

[SenorGato]

So he asked for the second highest deal for a CB?

BOOM BAM POW

Your entire premise is based on your assumptions that you seem to think everyone else must concede to.

To be fair, the same could be said about your whole "Revis wanted more than he's worth" spiel.

[Bleedin Green]

Look at it from the other side. I'm not admonishing anybody for saying we should look into it.

You aren't, but the person you're agreeing with who I was initially arguing with has been... repeatedly.

I'm admonishing the people saying WE MUST MOVE REVIS and/or WE MUST MOVE CROMARTIE! Think what you want, but they are legion and they keep complaining about any of us that say it might not be the best idea. The board consensus is apparently that a Revis trade will net a Hershel Walker/Ricky Williams haul. it might, but Sanchez might turn into an NFL QB. We both know that neither is ****ing likely.

I'm not arguing with you there. My problem is that certain people feel the need to then take the opposite extreme which is just as absurd.

[Bleedin Green]

Revis >>>>>>>>>>>> "every other #1 CB in the league" when he's on the field.

Based on what? 2009? In NFL terms, that's ancient history, and he hasn't even been the best in the league since then, never mind by any particularly wide margin.

[Bleedin Green]

To be fair, the same could be said about your whole "Revis wanted more than he's worth" spiel.

No actually, it can't. Yes, I expressed my opinion on the matter. What I didn't do, is then go on saying "The Jets cannot even possibly consider offering Revis a contract extension because of that, and everyone who thinks otherwise is automatically wrong because they don't agree with my assumptions!"

[Bleedin Green]

So he asked for the second highest deal for a CB?

No, he demanded the highest deal for that year, and then a dramatically higher deal than all others after that (as Asomugha's contract he wanted to beat out would no longer exist). All of this while refusing to honor his contract. But hey, whatever, you're the one who felt the need to try to paint a player with multiple holdouts to his name as such a fair and reasonable negotiator.

[whodeawhodat]

Based on what? 2009? In NFL terms, that's ancient history, and he hasn't even been the best in the league since then, never mind by any particularly wide margin.

Bro, he has been great when he has been healthy. I cant believe you watch Jets games and think he is anything less. especially with how many sacks we have generated in his time here.

[#27TheDominator]

No, he demanded the highest deal for that year, and then a dramatically higher deal than all others after that (as Asomugha's contract he wanted to beat out would no longer exist). All of this while refusing to honor his contract. But hey, whatever, you're the one who felt the need to try to paint a player with multiple holdouts to his name as such a fair and reasonable negotiator.

He was the best CB in football and asking to be paid a deal that would make him the 2nd highest paid DB. The fact that Asomugha's deal would expire doesn't make it "not exist." People still know it's terms. I didn't say he was so fair and reasonable, but the first holdout had a great deal to do with Tannenbaum wanting to lock him up for an extra year. We can both bitch and moan about it, but it's the nature of the beast and a pretty good reason we won't be seeing 8 picks and 3 firsts for him like Herschel Walker.

[SenorGato]

Based on what? 2009? In NFL terms, that's ancient history, and he hasn't even been the best in the league since then, never mind by any particularly wide margin.

And 2010...Oh but he dropped off for half a season in 2011 to merely #1 status and then suffered a knee injury that strong talents have returned from since the mid-2000's (McGahee and Gore)...Oh noes.

Yes, I expressed my opinion on the matter.

Yes, and the opinion was that he asked for more than he was worth based on him asking for the second largest CB contract in the NFL. Soo....

[Bleedin Green]

Bro, he has been great when he has been healthy. I cant believe you watch Jets games and think he is anything less. especially with how many sacks we have generated in his time here.

First off when he is healthy has to be one of the worst qualifiers in all of pro sports. He hasn't been healthy for 2 of his past 3 seasons. There's a reason the Jets were able to get Laron Landry on a one-year deal for the amount of money he did, because health counts for a whole lot. It's only made that much worse when you consider that one of those seasons of health issues was 100% his own fault, as he showed up fat and out of shape after his holdout. He also played like utter crap at the start of 2010 because of that. Even when he was healthy in 2011, his play definitely took a dip in the second half of the season. The point is, he's shown no evidence to suggest that he can replicate that 2009 season.

In the end, is he still an exceptionally talented CB? You bet your ass he is. Does he deserve to get paid 30% more than anyone else at his position? Not a chance in hell.

[Bleedin Green]

He was the best CB in football and asking to be paid a deal that would make him the 2nd highest paid DB. The fact that Asomugha's deal would expire doesn't make it "not exist." People still know it's terms. I didn't say he was so fair and reasonable, but the first holdout had a great deal to do with Tannenbaum wanting to lock him up for an extra year. We can both bitch and moan about it, but it's the nature of the beast and a pretty good reason we won't be seeing 8 picks and 3 firsts for him like Herschel Walker.

By your logic, every single QB in the league getting paid less than Mark Sanchez should hold out until they are paid more than him. One team signing an idiotic contract doesn't make that the measuring stick for the rest of the league.

I also have no idea what you and bit think you're accomplishing be continuing to bring up the Walker trade, but it's really not helping make your point. It's about the equivalent of someone on the opposite extreme saying they should trade Revis for a 7th rounder.

[SenorGato]

He's missed 17 games in the past 3 years, 14 of them this year for the obvious reason. The other three came two years ago. Landry missed one less game in his 3 previous seasons before FA, but on an 8-7-1 spread.

[bitonti]

In the end, is he still an exceptionally talented CB? You bet your ass he is. Does he deserve to get paid 30% more than anyone else at his position? Not a chance in hell.

if i am making assumptions about the trade market, you are making assumptions on revis' demands. You have his agent settling for not a dime less than 16 million per year, when really, we don't know the situation.

Revis getting hurt lowers his market value. That's a fact. There's no way this player can expect 16 million, coming off of a year when he only played 3 games.

I don't think this is about football at all. I think this is about your opinion of Revis the person.

[Bleedin Green]

And 2010...Oh but he dropped off for half a season in 2011 to merely #1 status and then suffered a knee injury that strong talents have returned from since the mid-2000's (McGahee and Gore)...Oh noes.

Revis was hot garbage for the first 6 games of 2010.

Yes, and the opinion was that he asked for more than he was worth based on him asking for the second largest CB contract in the NFL. Soo....

One awful contract which was blasted by absolutely everyone and designated an idiotic outlier by the entire league is not a measuring stick for all contracts. To be clear, he demanded more than it, not less, one a long term contract compared to what was one single year of Asomugha's deal, the last one at that. Again, the point being made here was "fair market value". By definition, one single outlier is not a market.

[bitonti]

One awful contract which was blasted by absolutely everyone and designated an idiotic outlier by the entire league is not a measuring stick for all contracts.

that's the market at work. Dan Snyder broke the bank on head coaches several years back and that toothpaste never was pushed back into the tube.

and again Revis' demands pre-injury aren't relevant. Heck we don't even know if he's the same player. A team is gonna want to see him in action before making any sort of big time deal.

[Lupz27]

Wow Revis gets hurt, and we miss watching him for 14 games, and all of a sudden Jets fans of all people forget how ****ing good he actually is, shame, shame! Take your injured knee question marks and shove them up your ass, name me the last top talented athlete that had a similar injury at a young age who DIDN'T come back just like new in the last couple of years, with all the new advancements in the medical field, and these top athletes willingness to work harder than anyone else (the sole reason why Revis, and others are considered the best at what they do), to me it's a fore gone conclusion we will see the same Revis in 2013 that we have seen for the last 5 years, and nobody is going to change my mind on that except Revis flopping on the field next year!

[Bleedin Green]

if i am making assumptions about the trade market, you are making assumptions on revis' demands. You have his agent settling for not a dime less than 16 million per year, when really, we don't know the situation.

Revis getting hurt lowers his market value. That's a fact. There's no way this player can expect 16 million, coming off of a year when he only played 3 games.

I don't think this is about football at all. I think this is about your opinion of Revis the person.

I'm not even addressing the non-bold because it's all more nonsensical conjecture which I could easily counter back to you, but will get us nowhere.

As far as the bold, that's a fair point and I don't deny it at all. However, there is a major difference here that you are ignoring. My position is simply that the Jets need to consider all options and then make a decision based on that. Which means at least considering the possibility of trading Revis, as it may be the for the better of the team, as hard as it may be to do. I have also said on numerous occasions that they should at least see how much an extension would cost and not bother to trade him if the offer is no better than what they can get as a compensatory pick. On the other hand, your position has been that, because of your assumptions, the Jets cannot even consider the possibility.

You're the one taking a definitive stance here, not me. I'm just not going to sit here and get lectured because you've decided how everything is going to unfold and that everyone who doesn't yield to your assumptions has no idea what they're talking about.

[Bleedin Green]

that's the market at work. Dan Snyder broke the bank on head coaches several years back and that toothpaste never was pushed back into the tube.

and again Revis' demands pre-injury aren't relevant. Heck we don't even know if he's the same player. A team is gonna want to see him in action before making any sort of big time deal.

Again, I don't disagree with the bold. But that's all the more reason to consider the trade options. If the Jets don't want to give Revis big time money (which even if his demands lower, I think it's fair to say he'll still want a pretty big contract) before he proves himself healthy, they're walking a very dangerous line of having him walk next year for absolutely nothing. With that possibility, how can you not at least listen to offers? That's been my only point from the very beginning, but some think it's utter blasphemy to even consider such an even thing, and deserves smiting.