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Jets interviewing GM finalists again, to make hire by Thursday


Maxman

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They've been building a damn good defense through the draft for the last several years as well.

Yup, and they got killed post draft the last few years on initial evaluation of each teams draft, I mean people were calling the Seahawks 2012 draft horrible, giving F grades, shows what everyone knows, NOTHING!

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I like the idea of hiring someone from an org (like the Steelers) that has had a long string of success, rather than the org that is "so hot right now" like the Seahawks or something. Even if Khan isn't a personnel guy, don't you think he'll be smart enough to surround himself with people who ARE so he can play to his strengths?

Yes, but quite unreadable.

I think it's laughable to believe that Khan not being a former player or scout or whatever the criteria is for Football Man means he will not be able to spot good players or bring people with him who won't be able to spot good players.

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I like the idea of hiring someone from an org (like the Steelers) that has had a long string of success, rather than the org that is "so hot right now" like the Seahawks or something. Even if Khan isn't a personnel guy, don't you think he'll be smart enough to surround himself with people who ARE so he can play to his strengths?

Yes, but quite unreadable.

I think it's laughable to believe that Khan not being a former player or scout or whatever the criteria is for Football Man means he will not be able to spot good players or bring people with him who won't be able to spot good players.

The fear is that he won't be allowed to bring in those people, but will be forced to rely on the Usual Suspects. It's a valid fear, but not a foregone conclusion. Hopefully they revamp the entire thing. The Jets have had some useful pieces and smart people. They didn't get that close by accident. I don't agree with the burn it down contingent, but I do agree we need a fresh view NOT a new scapegoat.

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What about the success of the Steelers organization in finding talent? Does him being surrounded by that scouting team and those that make the final decision have any impact on his ability to do so if in the GM role?

I guess my point is, at the end of the day, every single GM they are interviewing has never had the final say in anything and you're putting "blind faith" that they can. Whether they come from a cap background or a player related background is irrelevant. None of them have ever had the final say, none of them were solely responsible for player evaluating or cap structure. They all had help. They all will have help and guessing how they'll be in the GM role based on what they did previously when you really know nothing more than that is kind of pointless and I dont see why anyone is getting worked up over it.

Bradway came from the personnel dept in KC. How did that work out?

I just strongly disagree. A guy who comes from a personnel background will have a better skillset in place to make decisions - especially in the draft, where the Jets need the most help. Bradway, notwithstanding. That's why you interview these guys. You need a strong executive, too, but his skills as a talent evaluator are the premium asset. Any number of guys can crunch numbers or run an office, but when you have a few different scouts trying to convince you to draft their guy at any given point, it's good to have the ability to discern talent in your bag of tricks. When you don't have that, you trade three picks for Shonn Greene on Bradway's advice. Or you ignore Bradway's advice on Russell Wilson because he blew it last time on Greene.

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Yup, and they got killed post draft the last few years on initial evaluation of each teams draft, I mean people were calling the Seahawks 2012 draft horrible, giving F grades, shows what everyone knows, NOTHING!

Who was giving them an "F" grade? If anything, I remember people screaming about how the Jets really wanted Bruce Irvin.

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The fear is that he won't be allowed to bring in those people, but will be forced to rely on the Usual Suspects. It's a valid fear, but not a foregone conclusion. Hopefully they revamp the entire thing. The Jets have had some useful pieces and smart people. They didn't get that close by accident. I don't agree with the burn it down contingent, but I do agree we need a fresh view NOT a new scapegoat.

Exactly, so that assumption is something I will leave for the T0mShanes to assume.

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A guy who comes from a personnel background will have a better skillset in place to make decisions - especially in the draft, where the Jets need the most help.

That stuff is massively overblown. Look at the drafts that get praised year in and year out and it's a mix of guys most draftniks have heard of early and/or size/speed guys. The Jets have been leaning that way in the draft since 2010.

There's really nothing special about what guys like Newsome and Reese do on draft day...It wasn't some special scouting genius that landed the Ravens Ngata or the Giants Hakeem Nicks or JPP...or landed the Giants Justin Tuck to the third (he was rumored to be going as high as the late 1st). The Steelers were able to land DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first and second last year. Is that special Football Man scouting magic, or a whole lot of "holy sh*t, you let that fall to me? Really?"

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I just strongly disagree. A guy who comes from a personnel background will have a better skillset in place to make decisions - especially in the draft, where the Jets need the most help. Bradway, notwithstanding. That's why you interview these guys. You need a strong executive, too, but his skills as a talent evaluator are the premium asset. Any number of guys can crunch numbers or run an office, but when you have a few different scouts trying to convince you to draft their guy at any given point, it's good to have the ability to discern talent in your bag of tricks. When you don't have that, you trade three picks for Shonn Greene on Bradway's advice. Or you ignore Bradway's advice on Russell Wilson because he blew it last time on Greene.

The bold is what it really comes down to for me as well. Not all of your scouts are going to agree and that's essentially why the GM's job exists. He's the one taking all of the input and ultimately figuring out what the best decision is. When it comes to personnel, that means you need to be able to evaluate the players in question and make your own decision, not evaluate your scouts and guess which one of them knows best.

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After all is said and done and the Jed Hughes recommendatiion is in, just remember. Jed could not have recommended keeping Rex. That would not be the recommendation of a sane consultant. Only one very special tool made that decision, ignoring advice along the way. That very same tool will likely ignore Hughes recommendation again. Tools are tools. This is a very interesting debate. But to me, bottom line, all football teams have players and all football teams have caps. The one that win super bowls have the best players. You can find a cap guy anywhere. Everyone has to be under the cap. You need a football guy to evaluate the best coach and the best players.

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Also, an *organization* as a whole develops talent. The Giants take Marvin Austin/Linval Joseph, a guy with high first tools, in a mid-round and hope their coaching staff and the surrounding talent allows that player to play up to at least some semblance of what he is hyped to potentially be. If it works - GENIUS. If it doesn't? **** him, probably his fault.

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They've been building a damn good defense through the draft for the last several years as well.

That D has been very good but they didnt start winning until the stumbled upon Wilson in the 3rd. But I agree, they've been doing a great job drafting D since that Aaron Curry bust a couple years back.

I like the idea of hiring someone from an org (like the Steelers) that has had a long string of success, rather than the org that is "so hot right now" like the Seahawks or something. Even if Khan isn't a personnel guy, don't you think he'll be smart enough to surround himself with people who ARE so he can play to his strengths?

Somewhat my point.

I just strongly disagree. A guy who comes from a personnel background will have a better skillset in place to make decisions - especially in the draft, where the Jets need the most help. Bradway, notwithstanding. That's why you interview these guys. You need a strong executive, too, but his skills as a talent evaluator are the premium asset. Any number of guys can crunch numbers or run an office, but when you have a few different scouts trying to convince you to draft their guy at any given point, it's good to have the ability to discern talent in your bag of tricks. When you don't have that, you trade three picks for Shonn Greene on Bradway's advice. Or you ignore Bradway's advice on Russell Wilson because he blew it last time on Greene.

Just because they're a cap guy doesnt mean they can discern talent. This isnt rocket science. Everyone is a talent evaluator these days, hence all the draftnick wanna be GM's of the world. You get advice, you make the decision. It doesnt take some extra wicked smart keen eye for talent. 4 months of evaluating should help even a novice.

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That stuff is massively overblown. Look at the drafts that get praised year in and year out and it's a mix of guys most draftniks have heard of early and/or size/speed guys. The Jets have been leaning that way in the draft since 2010.

There's really nothing special about what guys like Newsome and Reese do on draft day...It wasn't some special scouting genius that landed the Ravens Ngata or the Giants Hakeem Nicks or JPP...or landed the Giants Justin Tuck to the third (he was rumored to be going as high as the late 1st). The Steelers were able to land DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first and second last year. Is that special Football Man scouting magic, or a whole lot of "holy sh*t, you let that fall to me? Really?"

Or Gholston. Or Dwayne Robertson. O rMark Sanchez.

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That stuff is massively overblown. Look at the drafts that get praised year in and year out and it's a mix of guys most draftniks have heard of early and/or size/speed guys. The Jets have been leaning that way in the draft since 2010.

There's really nothing special about what guys like Newsome and Reese do on draft day...It wasn't some special scouting genius that landed the Ravens Ngata or the Giants Hakeem Nicks or JPP...or landed the Giants Justin Tuck to the third (he was rumored to be going as high as the late 1st). The Steelers were able to land DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first and second last year. Is that special Football Man scouting magic, or a whole lot of "holy sh*t, you let that fall to me? Really?"

And you think it's irrelevant that there were countless picks made before either of them that were of guys who already look to be complete wastes of space? Yet that's irrelevant because players who were passed over by team after team were obviously destined for greatness and everyone knew it (of course ignoring the number of players supposedly destined for greatness that turned out to be awful). Give me a break, what an absolutely asinine argument.

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And you think it's irrelevant that there were countless picks made before either of them that were of guys who already look to be complete wastes of space? Yet that's irrelevant because players who were passed over by team after team were obviously destined for greatness and everyone knew it (of course ignoring the number of players supposedly destined for greatness that turned out to be awful). Give me a break, what an absolutely asinine argument.

What did I say was irrelevant now? I don't get what you're saying here.

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Just because they're a cap guy doesnt mean they can discern talent. This isnt rocket science.

No, it's not. If it was rocket science, I'd have more confidence that a guy could learn it on the job. Really, it's more of an art.

Right now, I'd say Khan would be my last choice. He comes from an accounting background, and at 32 really hasn't had any seasoning at all. The Steelers are a great organization to emulate, but I don't think he's the guy to do it.

A quality personnel background should be the #1 qualification, by far. There are 20 guys who can write contracts for every one who can properly discern who should be paid.

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What did I say was irrelevant now? I don't get what you're saying here.

You were dismissing the entire value of scouting / personnel evaluation, spouting nonsensical verbal diarrhea about how quality drafts apparently take little to no skill and are apparently handed to GMs on a silver platter, with the picks being so blatantly obvious to those GMs. Of course that necessitates ignoring that other GMs have to screw up their picks in order to even make that possible, all while believing it's just a coincidence when the same teams have successful drafts year after year.

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No, it's not. If it was rocket science, I'd have more confidence that a guy could learn it on the job. Really, it's more of an art.

And like art, you can rip even the best personnel guys

Bill Polian - Lucked into Peyton Manning.

Ozzie - Has resulted in one Super Bowl, job is made incredibly easy by having two GOATs man the defense for over a decade. Never built a great offense.

Reese - Has never had to look for a QB.

So long as New GM is allowed to bring in the people he wants to bring in and make his changes, I am not overly worried about background.

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You were dismissing the entire value of scouting / personnel evaluation, spouting nonsensical verbal diarrhea about how quality drafts apparently take little to no skill and are apparently handed to GMs on a silver platter, with the picks being so blatantly obvious to those GMs. Of course that necessitates ignoring that other GMs have to screw up their picks in order to even make that possible, all while believing it's just a coincidence when the same teams have successful drafts year after year.

Jets were able to land Coples without anyone really screwing up their picks. Even then, GMs screw up their picks all the time...The Bears used pick 19 on Shea McClellin and the Browns shocked everyone by taking Brandon Weeden in the first. Happens every single year. Ravens landed Ngata heavily because Michael Huff, QBs, and Kamerion Wimbley went before him.

The draft requires a great deal of skill to work...one of the more valuable skills to have is patience.

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That stuff is massively overblown. Look at the drafts that get praised year in and year out and it's a mix of guys most draftniks have heard of early and/or size/speed guys. The Jets have been leaning that way in the draft since 2010.

There's really nothing special about what guys like Newsome and Reese do on draft day...It wasn't some special scouting genius that landed the Ravens Ngata or the Giants Hakeem Nicks or JPP...or landed the Giants Justin Tuck to the third (he was rumored to be going as high as the late 1st). The Steelers were able to land DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first and second last year. Is that special Football Man scouting magic, or a whole lot of "holy sh*t, you let that fall to me? Really?"

SenorGato, Madden '13 Draft Expert, breaking down the profession.

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Jets were able to land Coples without anyone really screwing up their picks. Even then, GMs screw up their picks all the time...The Bears used pick 19 on Shea McClellin and the Browns shocked everyone by taking Brandon Weeden in the first. Happens every single year. Ravens landed Ngata heavily because Michael Huff, QBs, and Kamerion Wimbley went before him.

The draft requires a great deal of skill to work...one of the more valuable skills to have is patience.

So do these GMs screw up their picks because they lack patience, or is some other skill involved?

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SenorGato, Madden '13 Draft Expert, breaking down the profession.

It's a profession where you pick out who can play a sport. It's a profession where even the average fan can have some clue of who sucks and who doesn't. It's a profession where the best guys still miss often. It's a profession often analyzed purely with the Gift of Hindsight.

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So do these GMs screw up their picks because they lack patience, or is some other skill involved?

Some skill is involved. That's not hard to admit and certainly it doesn't take much away from what I'm saying. Does drafting Arthur Jones in the 5th or Greg Hardy in the 6th take genius? Both guys got first round talk early in their college careers and early in the draft process. It takes work to know that, but the special magic abilities that we've suddenly transferred to these Personnel/Football Men this year because it's the opposite? Not so much imo.

Be fair to Gato. Lack of patience might have been Tannenbaum's biggest flaw.

Truf in there.

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It's a profession where you pick out who can play a sport. It's a profession where even the average fan can have some clue of who sucks and who doesn't. It's a profession where the best guys still miss often. It's a profession often analyzed purely with the Gift of Hindsight.

112940822-dukes-vince-oghobaase-looks-on-in-dejection-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF87892140FEB0FF7845C57DCFA0DB76A88783ED8D6BE989BBE6F2145415D0C50D3682B9

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Nobody knows what is going on. The Jets have actually kept this pretty under wraps. Most of the media seems to be guessing.

Other teams are hiring GMs, coaches, etc. The Jets keep on playing games and unless they land some top name GM that would make everybody go "WOW" it'll be a disappointment that it took so long to hire a Kahn or Cohen.

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That stuff is massively overblown. Look at the drafts that get praised year in and year out and it's a mix of guys most draftniks have heard of early and/or size/speed guys. The Jets have been leaning that way in the draft since 2010.

There's really nothing special about what guys like Newsome and Reese do on draft day...It wasn't some special scouting genius that landed the Ravens Ngata or the Giants Hakeem Nicks or JPP...or landed the Giants Justin Tuck to the third (he was rumored to be going as high as the late 1st). The Steelers were able to land DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first and second last year. Is that special Football Man scouting magic, or a whole lot of "holy sh*t, you let that fall to me? Really?"

Kevin Colbert is the first GM in Steelers history. Nuff said?

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Other teams are hiring GMs, coaches, etc. The Jets keep on playing games and unless they land some top name GM that would make everybody go "WOW" it'll be a disappointment that it took so long to hire a Kahn or Cohen.

Normally I'd be the first to roast the team for the way they've handled things but I can't find any problems with how they've handled the hiring process. They're doing due diligence on their candidates and keeping it quiet to the outside. I'd have to imagine a large majority of the 'information' that we've heard has been, at best, complete speculation, and at worst, complete guesses.

They're doing this one right. I think some people are just looking for something to be pissed off about.

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