HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 His numbers aren't bad here, and he was really good last year. Ted Lilly was a very good pitcher. All those guys are good pitchers. Ted Lilly was a "very good" pitcher? That's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Off to bed. G'night! I look forward to dumping on Wade Davis or the immortal Ted Lilly some other time. Do you think Gavin Floyd should be in the Hall of Fame? Maybe the Royals should've traded Wil Myers for Ted Lilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Rotfl so Julio Teheran is Pedro Martinez? Rotfl. See that is actually funny and very from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Rotfl so Julio Teheran is Pedro Martinez? Rotfl. See that is actually funny and very from the truth. It's called a joke. Not a legitimate comparison. A joke. You moron, i didn't even mention Teheran there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 It's called a joke. Not a legitimate comparison. A joke. Yeah, which is why it's funny. That's why I laughed. Now you're telling me why I laughed. This guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Teheran isn't Pedro Martinez. Ted Lilly is. Or wait, errr, I mean, Wade Davis. No wait, Wade Davis is freaking Walter Johnson in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 In conclusion, trade Sandy Koufax for Ted Lilly. Good night for reallzzZzZz this time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Yeah, which is why it's funny. That's why I laughed. Now you're telling me why I laughed. This guy... Dumb. You are dumb and incoherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Dumb. You are dumb and incoherent. You just told me something that I laughed at was meant to be taken as a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I hope the Braves get to the World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I hope the Braves get to the World Series. On the way I hope you learn that the proper reaction to a joke, especially hilarious stuff like Teheran being compared to Pedro, is a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 And in the way I hope you learn to evaluate pitchers without obscure references to how big they are. Wade Davis: career ERA = 3.94 career tERA = 4.29 career FIP = 4.28 career xFIP = 4.40 career SIERA = 4.32 Yawn. His peripherals aren't that great. He's not that great. You seem to think him being 27 is a good thing. We've found out what Wade Davis is. He's alright, with a chance to be a little better than alright. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Wade Davis hasn't exactly set the bar that high here. I'd take prospects significantly worse than Julio Teheran over Wade Davis. "He's alright" is the nicest thing you'll hear me say about Wade Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Julio Teheran is 22. Wade Davis is 27. Davis actually had a really good year in relief last year. I don't think he'll be successful in a return to the rotation though. I don't think he has the stuff. He threw his fastball 2 mph faster on average last year and got a lot of his success on his slider and cutter. Sounds great for a reliever, but not so much for a starter. Teheran is 5 years younger and still has a shot at being a good starting pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 And in the way I hope you learn to evaluate pitchers without obscure references to how big they are. Wade Davis: career ERA = 3.94 career tERA = 4.29 career FIP = 4.28 career xFIP = 4.40 career SIERA = 4.32 Yawn. His peripherals aren't that great. He's not that great. You seem to think him being 27 is a good thing. We've found out what Wade Davis is. He's alright, with a chance to be a little better than alright. Cool. 1) No, we know what Wade Davis was as a SP at 24 and 25. 2) He's coming off 2.74 FIP/3.24 xFIP/2.79 SIERA to go with 11+ K/9. I too can pull up FanGraphs and recite. 3) "Not that great" is not that descriptive. It means nothing. 4) I hope you can learn to evaluate pitchers by doing more than just parroting their Fangraphs numbers. 5) Teheran isn't even "alright" yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Julio Teheran is 22. Wade Davis is 27. Davis actually had a really good year in relief last year. I don't think he'll be successful in a return to the rotation though. I don't think he has the stuff. He threw his fastball 2 mph faster on average last year and got a lot of his success on his slider and cutter. Sounds great for a reliever, but not so much for a starter. Teheran is 5 years younger and still has a shot at being a good starting pitcher. At 22 Davis put up almost 160 great innings in te minors and was one of the better prospects in baseball. At 22 Teheran is trying to figure out where his velocity and stuff went, if he's even healthy, and is coming off a very mediocre season where his stock dropped with the majority of relevant prospect writers out there. He also has questions before that due to a lack of dominance in his game. Davis averaged 92 as a starter two of his three seasons before 2012. That's fine velocity, and if you've done more than kinda sorta know who he is then you might recall his October start against the Rangers in 2010 where he was pumping 93-96. The bullpen move was done to work on mechanics, which again if you saw Davis before and after you would see the difference. I can go back to his rookie year where I was trashing him for his mechanics killing his stuff. Those mechanics are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'd rather preach numbers than sound like a senile fool babbling the same mush about size or makeup or whatever. You have fun with the Ted Lilly-Wade Davis-Rick Porcello All Universe Squadron. It's foolish to think Davis has more immediate trade value than Teheran. It's foolish to think Davis is a better long term piece than Teheran. I don't see how you can be in the dark about how I value Davis, questioning the meaning of "not that great" when it's mentioned right after his career numbers and everything else I said previously. Idk dude, he's like slightly better than league average as a starter, give or take a smidge. He's okay. He's not that great. He's whatever. Vanilla. You should be able to comprehend my opinion of him, just as I am able to comprehend your preposterously stupid opinion of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 And yes, Davis had a great 2012 season - that's already been brought up - but it's unlikely he'll ever be more than a decent starter; that's a serious hamper on his long term value. That he's never really been a league average starter and is already 27 is troubling. Even if he were to stay in the bullpen this upcoming year, regression is a strong possibility. Again, it's foolishly optimistic to say "bullpen ace" is his floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Parroting numbers, not preaching. Any half wit can get to his FanGraphs page and regurgitate numbers, you're not breaking any ground there. The nub poster who was infuriated that someone laughed at his joke and compared Julio Teheran to Pedro Martinez just called my opinion preposterously stupid. I find the girlish attempt to insult to be not that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Parroting numbers, not preaching. Any half wit can get to his FanGraphs page and regurgitate numbers, you're not breaking any ground there. The nub poster who was infuriated that someone laughed at his joke and compared Julio Teheran to Pedro Martinez just called my opinion preposterously stupid. I find the girlish attempt to insult to be not that great. Haha. Parroting, preaching ... it's all good. You're right, producing numbers is such an invalid way to go about valuing someone's ability, I'll rethink that right away. Whose talking about breaking ground here? If any half wit can get to his FanGraphs page ... why don't you take a second to do that and actually absorb the sobering truth about your bedfellow, Wade Davis. You were grasping at straws the instant you started debating. Search your soul, Mr. Cat, for deep within you know how terribly shaken you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 And yes, Davis had a great year last season - that's already been brought up - but it's unlikely he'll ever be more than a decent starter; that's a serious hamper on his long term value. Even if he were to stay in the bullpen this upcoming year, regression is a strong possibility. Again, it's foolishly optimistic to say "bullpen ace" is his floor. 1) Regression, if he were to remain in the pen, would happen based on....? 2) "Decent starters" get fifteen million dollars in the MLB nowadays and there certainly aren't 150 of those to fill up rotations. While that seems to be "not that great" to Fantasy and prospect fans, it is extremely valuable in the real world. His upside is higher than decent. Decent is just what he was in his pre-prime, first two years in the AL East as a starter. There is clearly upside there. 3) Bullpen ace is his floor and that floor >>>>>>>> Pedro Teheran's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 1) Regression, if he were to remain in the pen, would happen based on....? 2) "Decent starters" get fifteen million dollars in the MLB nowadays and there certainly aren't 150 of those to fill up rotations. While that seems to be "not that great" to Fantasy and prospect fans, it is extremely valuable in the real world. His upside is higher than decent. Decent is just what he was in his pre-prime, first two years in the AL East as a starter. There is clearly upside there. 3) Bullpen ace is his floor and that floor >>>>>>>> Pedro Teheran's. Eviscerated. Your pathetic regiment has been crushed by a legion of my finest troops. You were grasping at the straws the moment you started debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 SQQQWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKK You could have saved so much time just writing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'd rather just leave the conversation here so people can see the last few posts and how soundly you got beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Haha anyone reading these three pages would see a massacre, not a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Haha anyone reading these three pages would see a massacre, not a debate. Not to mention they would be able to find out that Julio Teheran, when you break it down and get to the nitty gritty, is basically Pedro Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 At 22 Davis put up almost 160 great innings in te minors and was one of the better prospects in baseball. At 22 Teheran is trying to figure out where his velocity and stuff went, if he's even healthy, and is coming off a very mediocre season where his stock dropped with the majority of relevant prospect writers out there. He also has questions before that due to a lack of dominance in his game. Davis averaged 92 as a starter two of his three seasons before 2012. That's fine velocity, and if you've done more than kinda sorta know who he is then you might recall his October start against the Rangers in 2010 where he was pumping 93-96. The bullpen move was done to work on mechanics, which again if you saw Davis before and after you would see the difference. I can go back to his rookie year where I was trashing him for his mechanics killing his stuff. Those mechanics are gone. Pretty sure being able to throw 93-96 in one start every two years isn't gonna cut it in the MLB. If he's worked out his mechanics then that's great for him. His stuff still sucks as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Pretty sure being able to throw 93-96 in one start every two years isn't gonna cut it in the MLB. If he's worked out his mechanics then that's great for him. His stuff still sucks as far as I can tell. His stuff doesn't suck. Nobody strikes out 11+ per 9 in any year with bad stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyFog Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Gato = dead ... i'm going to disengage from you now, cement-head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Gato = Pedro Martinez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 His stuff doesn't suck. Nobody strikes out 11+ per 9 in any year with bad stuff. Louis Coleman did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Louis Coleman did last year. He's also a weird delivery reliever who gave up an .827 OPS to left handers. He's a ROOGY, and on top of it his fastball averages 4 less MPH than Davis' out of the bullpen (and 2 less than Davis as a starter). Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 He's also a weird delivery reliever who gave up an .827 OPS to left handers. He's a ROOGY, and on top of it his fastball averages 4 less MPH than Davis' out of the bullpen (and 2 less than Davis as a starter). Next! Yeah, that's my point. He's not very good but he still got 11 K/9 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah, that's my point. He's not very good but he still got 11 K/9 last year. Yes, heavily influenced by the matchups the Royals used him in. He faced almost double the amount of RHs than he did left handers. Davis did not benefit from such matchups (150 RH PAs vs. 130 LH PAs), but was still better across the board. Coleman's stuff and abilities are more than fine for the role the Royals have him play. These are pitches (all from the same outing) where Davis showed off some of that bad stuff of his: 97 MPH fastball: Cutter to a lefty: Cutter in on a righty: Curve for a strike: Curve for a strikeout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 His stuff doesn't suck. Nobody strikes out 11+ per 9 in any year with bad stuff. felix doubrant must have came close last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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