Tannenbaum- "I'd build my franchise around Russell Wilson over Luck, RG3 and Kaepernick"

[Blackout]

I would go:

 

Luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RG3

 

Wilson

 

and Humperdink a mile later?

[T0mShane]

I would go:

Luck

RG3

Wilson

Word. But I'd go Luck, Kaep, Wilson, RGIII. You have to figure that RGIII is currently playing defenses specifically designed to contain his mobility, which won't be the case in three years, so he could be learning how to play an entirely different game than he'll be playing later, when defenses aren't worried about him running. He's going to eventually have to re-learn the game, mid-career. Wilson's size, IMO, could eventually cost him unless he develops a Drew Brees-type understanding of the game. I think Kaep is in a situation where he's already learning how to play from the pocket exclusively.

[SenorGato]

I like RG3 a lot as a passer still. He's been really good at it for a while now, and possibly underrated (except i thought it was more known else could pass).

Just not sure what I think about Kaepernick. I think he's more likely to have the problems you have with RG3 than RG3 will. He's a decent candidate for "more athlete than QB."

[bitonti]

if russell wilson was a 3rd rounder in the Andrew Luck draft, he'd be a 2nd in the Geno Smith draft.

[SenorGato]

and Humperdink a mile later?

I missed this one. Yep.

[T0mShane]

I like RG3 a lot as a passer still. He's been really good at it for a while now, and possibly underrated (except i thought it was more known else could pass).

Just not sure what I think about Kaepernick. I think he's more likely to have the problems you have with RG3 than RG3 will. He's a decent candidate for "more athlete than QB."

The question you have to answer with RGIII's passing is, how will he adjust when defenses eventually stop playing him to run? Right now, teams are keeping extra guys in the box and daring him to throw over it, and he has. But what happens if/when you don't have to bring that safety down? Passing gets a lot more difficult.

[HessStation]

Word. But I'd go Luck, Kaep, Wilson, RGIII. You have to figure that RGIII is currently playing defenses specifically designed to contain his mobility, which won't be the case in three years, so he could be learning how to play an entirely different game than he'll be playing later, when defenses aren't worried about him running. He's going to eventually have to re-learn the game, mid-career. Wilson's size, IMO, could eventually cost him unless he develops a Drew Brees-type understanding of the game. I think Kaep is in a situation where he's already learning how to play from the pocket exclusively.

We have the same order so you're obviously a genius.

[T0mShane]

We have the same order so you're obviously a genius.

We're like the same person.

[SenorGato]

The question you have to answer with RGIII's passing is, how will he adjust when defenses eventually stop playing him to run? Right now, teams are keeping extra guys in the box and daring him to throw over it, and he has. But what happens if/when you don't have to bring that safety down? Passing gets a lot more difficult.

Same could be said about Kaepernick, who is even less proven as a passer at the higher and highest levels of football. His main advantage is that he's taller (and now healthier), but Griffin's always been the running QB who knew how to pass like a modern QB.

[IPack]

I'd swap RG3 and Kaepernick. A clean bill of health counts for something in my book. RG3's ripped up his knee twice and he's only 23.

That knee has me worried also. I myself have torn both ACLs, one in basketball and then the other in MMA sparring.

[IPack]

Word. But I'd go Luck, Kaep, Wilson, RGIII. You have to figure that RGIII is currently playing defenses specifically designed to contain his mobility, which won't be the case in three years, so he could be learning how to play an entirely different game than he'll be playing later, when defenses aren't worried about him running. He's going to eventually have to re-learn the game, mid-career. Wilson's size, IMO, could eventually cost him unless he develops a Drew Brees-type understanding of the game. I think Kaep is in a situation where he's already learning how to play from the pocket exclusively.

The dude did fine all through college and the entire course of his first season. If he is not successful over the length of his NFL career it wont be because of height. He has consistently shown that it is not a problem for him.

[LionelRichie]

The question you have to answer with RGIII's passing is, how will he adjust when defenses eventually stop playing him to run? Right now, teams are keeping extra guys in the box and daring him to throw over it, and he has. But what happens if/when you don't have to bring that safety down? Passing gets a lot more difficult.

 

I honestly don't think you watched that many RG3 games this season.   The kid probably had the most poise of any of the rookies and was totally composed in the pocket.    What you saw at the end of the season was a totally different guy - he was playing with a sprained/torn knee and he was still lighting it up. 

 

Russell Wilson was a game manager all season who took advantage of a great defense and running game.   he actually reminded me of Sanchez the first 2 years.   Wilson had a couple of good games at the end of the season and into the playoffs but for the majority of the season he was just "good enough".   RG3 was the best player on the field until his knee went out.  

[IPack]

I honestly don't think you watched that many RG3 games this season. The kid probably had the most poise of any of the rookies and was totally composed in the pocket. What you saw at the end of the season was a totally different guy - he was playing with a sprained/torn knee and he was still lighting it up.

Russell Wilson was a game manager all season who took advantage of a great defense and running game. he actually reminded me of Sanchez the first 2 years. Wilson had a couple of good games at the end of the season and into the playoffs but for the majority of the season he was just "good enough". RG3 was the best player on the field until his knee went out.

You are living In a different world than me. Robert may have had more fllash in the first eight games but Rusell was better than RG III when it counted, on the back half of the season. Injuries count my friend, they are a part of sports. If not we would be still be talking about Bo Jackson and saying Adrian Peterson Who?

[stoicsentry]

Kap has a better arm and better legs.

 

 

Wilson has better instincts.

 

Luck has a cuter smile.

[T0mShane]

I honestly don't think you watched that many RG3 games this season. The kid probably had the most poise of any of the rookies and was totally composed in the pocket. What you saw at the end of the season was a totally different guy - he was playing with a sprained/torn knee and he was still lighting it up.

Russell Wilson was a game manager all season who took advantage of a great defense and running game. he actually reminded me of Sanchez the first 2 years. Wilson had a couple of good games at the end of the season and into the playoffs but for the majority of the season he was just "good enough". RG3 was the best player on the field until his knee went out.

The complaint wasn't about RGIII so much as it was about how defenses play him now versus how they'll play him when his knees are shot. Obviously, he's a freak talent with a great throwing arm, but how much of his success is coming because teams are playing him to run? Long term, IMO, he's a far riskier investment than Luck, who is seeing the same defensive alignments now as he'll see in ten years.

[T0mShane]

The dude did fine all through college and the entire course of his first season. If he is not successful over the length of his NFL career it wont be because of height. He has consistently shown that it is not a problem for him.

Not height--size. He's built like Bruno Mars.

[T0mShane]

Same could be said about Kaepernick, who is even less proven as a passer at the higher and highest levels of football. His main advantage is that he's taller (and now healthier), but Griffin's always been the running QB who knew how to pass like a modern QB.

True, but I don't think Kaepernick's offense is as reliant on the designed runs as RGIII's offense. The Falcons forced Kaepernick to stay in the pocket and he still killed them with his arm. After RGIII blew his knee out, that Redskin offense went in the toilet.

[SenorGato]

Compared to Luck every young QB out there is a huge risk. Only Newton and RG3 come close as far as upside at the position.

T0m I don't get how you can list those worries for RG3 and then turn around to put Kaepernick right behind Luck. The knee I guess...

The Falcons suck. RG3 had to blow his knee twice to really stop him, and playing with a bad knee the day you hurt it is probably a whole different thing from walking into a fresh season knowing to be a little less careless. I'm not even sure Kaepernick is the 49ers long term option at the position, he only started 10 or 12 games.

[CrazyCarl40]

I'm not even sure Kaepernick is the 49ers long term option at the position, he only started 10 or 12 games.

Did you even watch the Super Bowl? Dude can ball. He only started 10 or 12 games because Smith took them to the title game last season. It's painfully obvious who has more talent and who is a rising future QB star. Watch the games.

[SenorGato]

Did you even watch the Super Bowl? Dude can ball. He only started 10 or 12 games because Smith took them to the title game last season. It's painfully obvious who has more talent and who is a rising future QB star. Watch the games.

Yeah, they had to knock out the power just to give the 49ers a chance to make it interesting. 

 

Obviously Kaepernick is more talented than Alex f'n Smith. I have watched the games and Kaepernick is less off a passer than RG3 is, period. Even Chad Pennington took the league by storm on his initial showing.

 

The Great Kaepernick fumbled 9 times in his 10 starts.

[T0mShane]

Yeah, they had to knock out the power just to give the 49ers a chance to make it interesting.

Obviously Kaepernick is more talented than Alex f'n Smith. I have watched the games and Kaepernick is less off a passer than RG3 is, period. Even Chad Pennington took the league by storm on his initial showing.

The Great Kaepernick fumbled 9 times in his 10 starts.

I won't argue with a man who's practically a GM.

[CrazyCarl40]

Yeah, they had to knock out the power just to give the 49ers a chance to make it interesting.

Obviously Kaepernick is more talented than Alex f'n Smith. I have watched the games and Kaepernick is less off a passer than RG3 is, period. Even Chad Pennington took the league by storm on his initial showing.

The Great Kaepernick fumbled 9 times in his 10 starts.

Kaepernick is way more accurate than RGIII. The balls Kap threw were normally right on the money. RGIII's receivers had to adjust midair most times to bring in his passes. Just watch the games on Sunday and it's apparent who the better passer of the two is. If RGIII is relegated to the pocket, he'll have much less long term success than any of the other three. Period.

Fumbling is an issue but it's not like it isn't correctable.

[SenorGato]

I won't argue with a man who's practically a GM.

If the Internet has taught me anything its that the guy who turns to insults of any degree first is usually the one who making the best points.

Just say "Kaepernick made it to the SB, which RG3 didn't do," as it's probably closer to what you want to say.

[SenorGato]

Kaepernick is way more accurate than RGIII.

Lol wut. Are you talking about some other RG3?

[CrazyCarl40]

Lol wut. Are you talking about some other RG3?

No. I'm talking about the one who had Pierre Garçon making ridiculous catches nonstop because he couldn't put the ball on his numbers ever.

[SenorGato]

No. I'm talking about the one who had Pierre Garçon making ridiculous catches nonstop because he couldn't put the ball on his numbers ever.

Yeah Garçon was a human highlight reel this season. Nonstop stopped at 44.

I'm smelling a "Kaepernick is the last football I saw, that being the most important game" + 49er halo situation. It reeks. RG3 has out passed him at every level of ball.

[T0mShane]

If the Internet has taught me anything its that the guy who turns to insults of any degree first is usually the one who making the best points.

Sounds like a fascinating study. You should type that up and submit it through the proper channels of academia.

I was just taken aback by the idea that Colin Kaepernick's early success is meaningless because of Chad Pennington and the lolfalcons, but RGIII's success is real because that's it I'm Gato. There's just no coming back from an intellectual powershot like that.

[T0mShane]

Yeah Garçon was a human highlight reel this season. Nonstop stopped at 44.

I'm smelling a "Kaepernick is the last football I saw, that being the most important game" + 49er halo situation. It reeks. RG3 has out passed him at every level of ball.

Out passed.

[Matt39]

I honestly don't think you watched that many RG3 games this season.   The kid probably had the most poise of any of the rookies and was totally composed in the pocket.    What you saw at the end of the season was a totally different guy - he was playing with a sprained/torn knee and he was still lighting it up. 

 

Russell Wilson was a game manager all season who took advantage of a great defense and running game.   he actually reminded me of Sanchez the first 2 years.   Wilson had a couple of good games at the end of the season and into the playoffs but for the majority of the season he was just "good enough".   RG3 was the best player on the field until his knee went out.  

 

 

Wilson was the best player on the field in the Falcons game. The training wheels came off toward the end of the season...kid is the real deal.

[SenorGato]

Sounds like a fascinating study. You should type that up and submit it through the proper channels of academia.

I was just taken aback by the idea that Colin Kaepernick's early success is meaningless because of Chad Pennington and the lolfalcons, but RGIII's success is real because that's it I'm Gato. There's just no coming back from an intellectual powershot like that.

I am equally shocked that one running QB with less of a history of passing success than the other is the better bet to be a better passer moving forward according to one of JN's few masters of maths. Must just be me HAAAAATTTIIIIING on your totally nerd mind.

[dbatesman]

Sounds like a fascinating study. You should type that up and submit it through the proper channels of academia.

 

 

Just a general announcement: if anyone ever wants to publish something in The Journal of Pseudointellectual Studies, I got a hookup.

[SenorGato]

Just a general announcement: if anyone ever wants to publish something in The Journal of Pseudointellectual Studies, I got a hookup.

Front page article:

Colin Kapernick was in the SB, therefore is on the path to being a great QB. Local scientists and mathematicians say you need to watch the games to get it. Like...really watch.

[CrazyCarl40]

Yeah Garçon was a human highlight reel this season. Nonstop stopped at 44.

I'm smelling a "Kaepernick is the last football I saw, that being the most important game" + 49er halo situation. It reeks. RG3 has out passed him at every level of ball.

No. It's watching a whole lot of football and seeing Garçon and many others have to adjust to poorly thrown balls. Completion percentage and accuracy are two different things. I'm guessing we'll just have to agree to disagree and see what happens over the next three years.

[Sperm Edwards]

No. It's watching a whole lot of football and seeing Garçon and many others have to adjust to poorly thrown balls. Completion percentage and accuracy are two different things. I'm guessing we'll just have to agree to disagree and see what happens over the next three years.

 

 

Garçon hardly played until late November.  I saw a lot of his games this year and saw a whole lot of throws that were right on the money.  Other than a healthy Garçon, which he didn't have much of, his receivers suck.  Josh Morgan is much worse than Justin McCareins.  Fred Davis is worse than Dustin Keller (for the half-dozen games he was there for).  Santana Moss is a has-been.  Aldrick Robinson is a total nothing.  Leonard Hankerson has some talent but still isn't as productive as Jeremy Kerley.  

 

Nobody gets that lucky over a 15-game stretch to complete 2/3 of his passes with a 4:1 TD:INT ratio.  And unlike every other QB with that type of completion percentage, only about 20 of those completions went to his backs.  How many times have you seen that before?  I've never seen it.  

 

Now throw in on top of that stat, that (among QBs who attempted 300 passes) his receivers were either #1 or #2 most likely in the NFL to drop passes.  About 1 out of 5 of RGIII's incomplete passes were receiver drops, even when you factor in killing the clock and purposeful throws out of bounds.

[SenorGato]

No. It's watching a whole lot of football and seeing Garçon and many others have to adjust to poorly thrown balls. Completion percentage and accuracy are two different things. I'm guessing we'll just have to agree to disagree and see what happens over the next three years.

 

Pretty much, but I expect to be right once again. 

 

Edit: I sat on this extremely well thought out reply for so long that Sperm beat me by 9 minutes. Seriously THO, some of you guys preaching "watch football" have clearly not seen RG3 pass very often.