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Jets appear to be switching to a 4-3?


hotcoles87

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I was on nyjetscap the other day, and he strongly believes that the Jets are
switching to a 4-3. Then I looked at the players we have met with, and realized
most of these guys seem like 4-3 players. Then think about last years draft...
Coples is almost exclusivly a 4-3 end. Davis can play MLB in a 3-4 but is really
best suited as a 4-3 OLB. I have a feeling that guys like Dion Jordan,
Barkevious Mingo are not even being considered, but guys like Sheldon Richardson
and Sharif Floyd are. Look for us to draft a true 4-3 DE... 6-5-270 or so, or a
penetrating DT, and draft an OLB who can cover and stuff the run, rather than
rush the QB.

Here's the list of guys we met with.

Josh Boyd, DL,
Mississippi State (EW)
Gerald Hodges, LB, Penn State (EW)
Wes Horton, DL,
USC (EW)
Sio Moore, LB, Connecticut (EW)
Kevin Reddick, LB, North Carolina
(SR)

Does this make sense to anyone else?

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The Jets dont care what base you think the D is. The personnel will always lean towards a 3-4 because it's more flexible, but really most of the time they're opening up in nickel and dime packages.

I'm glad they're checking out Kevin Reddick. Underrated player. Same for Hodges, a guy probably getting looks as an undersized 3-4 ILB after the success of Bowman.

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Also Coples is not strictly a 4-3 DE. That's not even what he played best in college.

I totally get why the 4-3 is being speculated as the pesonnel can seem like its heading that way. It might be easier to get LB production this year out of a 4-3 as 3-4 OLB is no joke as a position. I expect they're looking at Mingo or Werner as someone who can play DE in packages, stand up and rush in packages....etc....That's how Suggs and Aldon Smith were brought up by their teams...pass rushing DEs first.

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We met with more guys than I listed, these are just the front 7 players.  Yes, Coples played DT as well in college, but he's obviously not doing that in the NFL.  He's not a stand up OLB either... he's a 4-3 end, and that's really how we used him last season.  I just find it interesting that Coples and Davis are both looked at more as 4-3 guys, and now there's a list of 4-3 players that we've met with.  Moore and Hodges do not seem like 3-4 LB's at all.  With Harris and Davis at MLB, I highly doubt we are meeting with all these guys to be MLB.  I really think they are being looked at as coverage/run stuffing OLB in a 4-3.  

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There was speculation about this last year too.  Especially when they hired Dunbar.  

 

Rex uses many fronts.  3-4 will always be his base...but he runs plenty of 4 man fronts too.  That's not changing because of who they are talking to.

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There was speculation about this last year too.  Especially when they hired Dunbar.  

 

Rex uses many fronts.  3-4 will always be his base...but he runs plenty of 4 man fronts too.  That's not changing because of who they are talking to.

This is what conventional wisdom is, but I don't think it's going to be the case moving forward.  I think Rex would play the formations that his players are best suited for.  We just lost 3 LB's that are suited for the 3-4. Things change.  To say that they won't even though the evidence supports it is just blindly following. 

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We met with more guys than I listed, these are just the front 7 players.  Yes, Coples played DT as well in college, but he's obviously not doing that in the NFL.  He's not a stand up OLB either... he's a 4-3 end, and that's really how we used him last season.  I just find it interesting that Coples and Davis are both looked at more as 4-3 guys, and now there's a list of 4-3 players that we've met with.  Moore and Hodges do not seem like 3-4 LB's at all.  With Harris and Davis at MLB, I highly doubt we are meeting with all these guys to be MLB.  I really think they are being looked at as coverage/run stuffing OLB in a 4-3.  

 

As well as a 3-4 DE.

 

It's easy to look at 3-4 guys as 4-3 guys - that's the beauty of the defense. Moore at 6'1 245 is hardly too small to play inside in a 3-4, same for the 6'1" 243 Hodges. While there's some hints that they are thinking 4-3, there's also the possibility they feel it's possible to move Harris. 

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As well as a 3-4 DE.

 

It's easy to look at 3-4 guys as 4-3 guys - that's the beauty of the defense. Moore at 6'1 245 is hardly too small to play inside in a 3-4, same for the 6'1" 243 Hodges. While there's some hints that they are thinking 4-3, there's also the possibility they feel it's possible to move Harris. 

I can't imagine why they would consider taking another MLB for a 3-4 base D.  Doesn't make sense.  They obviously drafted Davis to play the middle and replace Bart.  Why would they use another high pick on a guy like Moore to play MLB?  I know Moore and Hodges can play the middle if need be, but they are better suited as 4-3 OLB.  They are not the kind of guys best at their best when slamming into guards all day.  I could be wrong, but when I see Coples, Davis, Moore, and Hodges, I see guys that look more like 4-3 base players than 3-4 base.  When I consider we just lost 3 of our 3-4 base LB's, I think it is more than a possibility that we are looking to switch the system.

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This is what conventional wisdom is, but I don't think it's going to be the case moving forward.  I think Rex would play the formations that his players are best suited for.  We just lost 3 LB's that are suited for the 3-4. Things change.  To say that they won't even though the evidence supports it is just blindly following. 

 

What evidence?  The way the roster looks in March before FA and the draft?  Lulz.  okay.

 

Besides, Davis was drafted to replace Scott and Mauga who's shown some promise is getting back from injury.  McIntyre looked like a viable option out there that in the very least it makes it so that its not absolutely necessary to have 2 brand new OLB's.  And isnt Thomas still on the roster?  

 

Point being, looking at the roster in March and using who they've spoken with at the combine to determine that the Rex Ryan is all of a sudden going to be switching fronts seems a little assumptive.  

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The Jets defense has not been a pure 3-4 since the day Rex showed up into town.  This defense has always been about flexibility and has constantly shifted around between 4-3, 3-4, 46 and a variety of nickel and dime packages throughout even a single game.  The idea behind the concept is you worry about just getting the best possible players and then finding ways to get everyone to contribute to their strengths.  From Idzik's standpoint, the benefit is that if he's not sure about keeping Rex around long term, having more flexibility in their players means he's not locking a future coach into a certain defensive scheme or otherwise potentially looking at a multi-year scheme changeover.

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What evidence?  The way the roster looks in March before FA and the draft?  Lulz.  okay.

 

Besides, Davis was drafted to replace Scott and Mauga who's shown some promise is getting back from injury.  McIntyre looked like a viable option out there that in the very least it makes it so that its not absolutely necessary to have 2 brand new OLB's.  And isnt Thomas still on the roster?  

 

Point being, looking at the roster in March and using who they've spoken with at the combine to determine that the Rex Ryan is all of a sudden going to be switching fronts seems a little assumptive.  

Thomas is a FA, Scott and Pace are gone.  Here is the evidence supporting the base 4-3...  We just lost 3 players who are best suited for 3-4.  Coples and Davis are best suited for 4-3.  Wilkerson and Coples proved they can generate pressure from the line. The players I mentioned we are meeting with also seem best suited for 4-3.  The only position they would fit in a 3-4 D is MLB, which we already have filled with quality players.  We played a lot of 4-3 the last few years, and with massive personnel changes with 3-4 guys, I really think this is a probable move.  We'll have a much better idea after the draft.  Don't be surprised if we let go of DeVito and possibly Pouha and pick someone like Floyd or Sheldon Richardson at 9, then grab a DE in the 2nd round.  I actually hope I'm wrong because I prefer a base 3-4, but don't be surprised.

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Thomas is a FA, Scott and Pace are gone.  Here is the evidence supporting the base 4-3...  We just lost 3 players who are best suited for 3-4.  Coples and Davis are best suited for 4-3.  Wilkerson and Coples proved they can generate pressure from the line. The players I mentioned we are meeting with also seem best suited for 4-3.  The only position they would fit in a 3-4 D is MLB, which we already have filled with quality players.  We played a lot of 4-3 the last few years, and with massive personnel changes with 3-4 guys, I really think this is a probable move.  We'll have a much better idea after the draft.  Don't be surprised if we let go of DeVito and possibly Pouha and pick someone like Floyd or Sheldon Richardson at 9, then grab a DE in the 2nd round.  I actually hope I'm wrong because I prefer a base 3-4, but don't be surprised.

 

Its March the only moves that have been made have been cuts and some dudes that might make the practice squad.  FA hasnt started.  The draft is a month away.  Maybe we can revisit this conversation then but right now, I dont see Rex Ryan changing his highly successful defensive philosophy that he's been coaching for 20 years.  

 

And I disagree that those players fit one scheme better than the other.  They are versatile players, which is why they were drafted because Rex already uses many fronts like you mentioned.

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We just lost 3 players that are best suited to the 3-4, so we are going to switch to a 4-3? Does that mean we are going to go with that famous 3 linemen offense? The 4 corner, no safety defensive backfield?  Those cuts were salary based.  Who knows what they are going to do?

Well that was selective quoting if I've ever seen it... you happened to ignore the rest.  Maybe I should say that this D seems to be looking towards using more 4-3 personel than 3-4.  Coples and Davis are certainly not your typical 3-4 players.  Was Coples drafted to rush the passer, or to play as a block occupying 2 gap DE?  Davis can fit in the middle, but he's about 20 lbs shy of your typical 3-4 MLB, and is best suited to do what he did in college, which is OLB in a 4-3.  The guys I mentioned that we are looking at are also 4-3 OLB.  It wouldn't make sense that we are looking at them as 3-4 MLB with Davis and Harris, and they're not big edge rushing OLB's.  So what are they then?  4-3 OLB.  I'm not saying that Rex is going to stick to 4-3 only but this draft is going to be very telling.

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Well that was selective quoting if I've ever seen it... you happened to ignore the rest.  Maybe I should say that this D seems to be looking towards using more 4-3 personel than 3-4.  Coples and Davis are certainly not your typical 3-4 players.  Was Coples drafted to rush the passer, or to play as a block occupying 2 gap DE?  Davis can fit in the middle, but he's about 20 lbs shy of your typical 3-4 MLB, and is best suited to do what he did in college, which is OLB in a 4-3.  The guys I mentioned that we are looking at are also 4-3 OLB.  It wouldn't make sense that we are looking at them as 3-4 MLB with Davis and Harris, and they're not big edge rushing OLB's.  So what are they then?  4-3 OLB.  I'm not saying that Rex is going to stick to 4-3 only but this draft is going to be very telling.

 

 

Selective quoting?  What players are they paying?  Harris and Wilkerson are certainly better suited to the 3-4.  Pouha has been around forever and Devito is a free agent, but Kenrick Ellis is ALL 3-4 NT.  The other DTs they have been having in were also all huge - Tevesau and Harrison.  The team used the same scheme last year and looked to have the regulars lose weight for speed.  Maybe, just maybe they are looking for players

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Selective quoting?  What players are they paying?  Harris and Wilkerson are certainly better suited to the 3-4.  Pouha has been around forever and Devito is a free agent, but Kenrick Ellis is ALL 3-4 NT.  The other DTs they have been having in were also all huge - Tevesau and Harrison.  The team used the same scheme last year and looked to have the regulars lose weight for speed.  Maybe, just maybe they are looking for players

Tim and Pat on NFL Radio just said Jets are going to more 4 man fronts this season.  You guys going to call them and tell them how crazy they are? 

Don't be shocked.

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Tim and Pat on NFL Radio just said Jets are going to more 4 man fronts this season.  You guys going to call them and tell them how crazy they are? 

Don't be shocked.

 

 

1. Who the **** are Tim and Pat and what makes them authorities?

 

2.  Nobody said they weren't going to play a bunch of four man fronts.  They already do.  My post was just defending the fact that they were not going to abandon the of 3-4.  They probably play as much nickel than anything else.  How do you run a 3-4 or 4-3 when you have 5 dbs on the field?

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they do run as much nickel as anyone and that's the defense that needs to get better. 3rd down defense. 

 

this obsessiveness with 4-3 vs 3-4 is missing the point that they need to get better on 3rd down. 

 

the 4-3 vs 3-4 conversation only applies to 1st/2nd down and in those situations Rex has it on lockdown. He's got 46 bear looks for goaline passed down as his birthright. 

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the answer to the question of whether or not we are switching to a 43 is an emphatic no.

 

you can't switch to something if u do multiple things. and besides, we are in a 40 front with 2 LBs and 1 extra safety on almost every passing down.

 

you can't switch to something if u already run it...

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Why do people keep talking about drafting d-linemen? We are negotiating with DeVito. If that works, we have Pouha, DeVito, Coples, Wilkerson, Ellis and I'm probably even missing a guy or two there. Where you going to put him?

 

Meanwhile who are our LBs? Harris, Davis... Mauga? Of those 3 only Harris has the kind of talent that our d-linemen have. We are really thin at LB. We need a pass rushing OLB badly. If he can put his hand down on the end, makes no difference to me... but he's got to be a linebacker first and foremost. We need him to rush the passer first and ideally, be able to cover a back out of the backfield.

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Why do people keep talking about drafting d-linemen? We are negotiating with DeVito. If that works, we have Pouha, DeVito, Coples, Wilkerson, Ellis and I'm probably even missing a guy or two there. Where you going to put him?

 

Meanwhile who are our LBs? Harris, Davis... Mauga? Of those 3 only Harris has the kind of talent that our d-linemen have. We are really thin at LB. We need a pass rushing OLB badly. If he can put his hand down on the end, makes no difference to me... but he's got to be a linebacker first and foremost. We need him to rush the passer first and ideally, be able to cover a back out of the backfield.

 

I understand that it's not ideal, but we have Garrett McIntyre and Ricky Sapp.  In conjunction with Demario Davis, that means we at least have options moving forward.  Especially so if we run more 4-man fronts, 46 looks, and nickle packages....

If we sign a guy like Victor Butler, I would have no problem drafting more D-Linemen. 

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1. Who the **** are Tim and Pat and what makes them authorities?

 

2.  Nobody said they weren't going to play a bunch of four man fronts.  They already do.  My post was just defending the fact that they were not going to abandon the of 3-4.  They probably play as much nickel than anything else.  How do you run a 3-4 or 4-3 when you have 5 dbs on the field?

Umm, Pat Kirwan?  One of the best guys on NFL Radio... used to work in the Jets front office... got his info from someone inside the jets office...  I'd say he's got a more qualified opinion that anyone on a Message board.  Not to mention that wasn't opinion- it was what he heard from a reliable source.  Look, this thread was started mainly to discuss personell.  We will certainly run several fronts, but I think we will be moving away from the traditional 3-4 personell, and heading towards more 4-3 personell.  Two more guys you argued with were just let go.  DeVito and Pouha are gone.  So now we lost 5 traditional 3-4 players.  The remaining players we have in the front 7 are best suited in my opinion as 4-3 guys.  This brings me back to my initial post-- don't be surprised if we look to a guy like Floyd at #9, and use him and Wilk in the middle, coples on the outside, Davis as OLB and pickup another pass rushing DE.

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Umm, Pat Kirwan?  One of the best guys on NFL Radio... used to work in the Jets front office... got his info from someone inside the jets office...  I'd say he's got a more qualified opinion that anyone on a Message board.  Not to mention that wasn't opinion- it was what he heard from a reliable source.  Look, this thread was started mainly to discuss personell.  We will certainly run several fronts, but I think we will be moving away from the traditional 3-4 personell, and heading towards more 4-3 personell.  Two more guys you argued with were just let go.  DeVito and Pouha are gone.  So now we lost 5 traditional 3-4 players.  The remaining players we have in the front 7 are best suited in my opinion as 4-3 guys.  This brings me back to my initial post-- don't be surprised if we look to a guy like Floyd at #9, and use him and Wilk in the middle, coples on the outside, Davis as OLB and pickup another pass rushing DE.

Okay. Pat Kirwin I know.

 

I don't think Harris will be a very good 4-3 MLB.  I think the 3-4 suits him.  As I said, I think they are just looking for players.  I don't think they  are going to be too worried about their "base" particularly since, as has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, they have an extra DB on the field more often than not.

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I'm beginning to think that Coples and Wilkerson would be better players in the 4-3 and since they are our 2 best defenders, we need to maximize their value. 

To add to that point, I think Davis would be a stud as a 4-3 OLB and is probably out of position in the middle of a 3-4.  Rex will always switch up the fronts, but I think we'll be doing it with mainly a 4-3 base, and will be adding personel that fits it.  Honestly, 10 years ago, the 3-4 was amazing because hardly anyone ran it.  You could pickup very talented players on the cheap because they didn't fit with the 4-3 teams. Now, it's about 50-50, and these 3-4 players are harder to find- hence command bigger salaries than they would have in the past.  I'm thinking that this same theory will now apply to the 4-3 OLB's.  Most of them don't fit in a 3-4 at all.  That takes about half the teams out of their market. 

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Davis could be Derick Johnson or Karlos Dansby in this D if everything goes well. I agree he'd do well as a 4-3 OLB, but I think he has the size, speed, and explosiveness to play any LB position in either of the two fronts depending on the package.

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