SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Nothing of what you're saying matters to my original point, which you have still yet to refute. I'm not saying Russell Wilson should have gone higher, at all. In hindsight, yes, of course, but that has nothing to do with my original point of how bad these QBs are and that none are worth a high 2nd round pick, especially Nassib who, in a year when a few QBs are talked about in the top 5 or 10, wouldn't be even thought of until the 3rd day. I've told you like 4 times I still don't get your point. You said: Russell Wilson went in the 3rd last year in a good year for QBs. Nassib last season goes in the 4th or 5th. He's a product of the craptacular QBs in this 2013 draft, I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell Russell Wilson going in the third is relevant to Ryan Nassib's draft spot WITHOUT you basing this purely on hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Point: Nassib is bad QB made to look better because everyone else is just as bad and worse. He's going to finish 3rd in the special Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Point: Nassib is bad QB made to look better because everyone else is just as bad and worse. He's going to finish 3rd in the special Olympics. .... So Russell Wilson has nothing to do with anything you were saying? My guess that hindsight played a factor in that post and this point you say you were making is correct? I'm not surprised, and even less surprised that cartoon tactics and exaggeration had to be used to somehow convince yourself the point was there all along. Just...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 .... So Russell Wilson has nothing to do with anything you were saying? My guess that hindsight played a factor in that post and this point you say you were making is correct? I'm not surprised, and even less surprised that cartoon tactics and exaggeration had to be used to somehow convince yourself the point was there all along. Just...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. What? Dude, you're reaching. I was making a viable comparison between the two QB classes and where they went in the last draft. Last year's draft class for QB was good, this one is bad. So bad QBs will be taken sooner because there aren't any good ones. I'm failing to see what you can't understand about a simple comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I was making a viable comparison It did nothing for your point and calling it viable doesn't make it viable. Besides Luck and Griffin 3 (immediately eliminated as options by going 1 and 2 in the draft), what makes last year's class sooooooooo damn good? Russell Wilson turned out to be good and Kirk Cousins had a good game? I'm not reaching in the slightest when I call hindsight the way you're explaining this. You still have not explained to me why Russell Wilson going in the third round - again as a sub-6' QB with one season of clearly ideal production and two total of roughly ideal production - somehow makes Nassib a 4th or 5th rounder. It's not something you've really been clear about when making the comparison and when you wrote out the point you were making to me you went to cartoon lengths (3rd in the Special Olympics) to drive around the Wilson thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 What? Dude, you're reaching. I was making a viable comparison between the two QB classes and where they went in the last draft. Last year's draft class for QB was good, this one is bad. So bad QBs will be taken sooner because there aren't any good ones. I'm failing to see what you can't understand about a simple comparison. I do agree with your statement here. A lot of avg to bad QBs will be taken a lot sooner this year because of the weak draft. Teams will reach. They will hope. None of it means anything. I don't think the Jets should be picking any QB in this draft with the 2nd pick. Taking a QB in the 2nd round means you have plans this is the QB of the future. Taking a guy in the 4th round, who knows, you might get lucky, and it's not that big of a loss. If the Jets had the 49ers draft with a ton of picks, maybe you reach somewhere, but the jets don't. And the Jets don't have the 49ers team. So a team trying to rebuild needs to add best players available, depth, and build something for the future. This kid doesn't look like a kid who will be any teams future QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Any QB we draft this year has to be viewed as a back-up. Anything else is a reach. Pick the best available QB in the mid-late rounds and use the early picks for any positions other than QB. Any of the QB's in this class who go early have bust written all over them. yeah but law of averages says at least one maybe two of them are probably going to be good. For once, maybe they pick the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Taking a QB in the 2nd round means you have plans this is the QB of the future. No, it doesn't. I'm sure the Jets and every team in the NFL are well aware of the success rates of second round QBs. Still doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find a competent player at the position, and Nassib has plenty of positive qualities in his profile that make him an interesting gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 No, it doesn't. I'm sure the Jets and every team in the NFL are well aware of the success rates of second round QBs. Still doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find a competent player at the position, and Nassib has plenty of positive qualities in his profile that make him an interesting gamble. Stephen Hill was a gamble in the 2nd round. It didn't pay off. The Jets need solid players right now, not gambles. Teams with solid cores of talented players coming off of winning seasons can gamble. Not the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Stephen Hill was a gamble in the 2nd round. It didn't pay off. The Jets need solid players right now, not gambles. Teams with solid cores of talented players coming off of winning seasons can gamble. Not the Jets. Good guesses on how to find one at QB beyond ESPN/NFLN pumping them up? - Three starting seasons in college or at least 30 starts. Check for Nassib. - At least two seasons of 60% completion rates. Check for Nassib. - At least two 3000 yard seasons. Only one for Nassib unfortunately. - 23+ wins. Check for Nassib. - Above average size? Check for Nassib. - Capable of making the intermediate throws? Check for Nassib. Not every gamble is the same, and technically they're ALL gambles in the first place. Good gamblers know this from what I understand about gambling. Cores....Dammit, the more I'm around both the more I realize Cubs fans and Jet fans are cut from the exact same cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 No, it doesn't. I'm sure the Jets and every team in the NFL are well aware of the success rates of second round QBs. Still doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find a competent player at the position, and Nassib has plenty of positive qualities in his profile that make him an interesting gamble. Nassib isn't a 2nd round pick. end of story. So you don't reach to pick the guy and hope he makes the team. Teams that do that wind up 4-12 year after year. Wasting 2nd round picks on a team who seems to never have tons of picks is a disaster in waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Nassib isn't a 2nd round pick. end of story. So you don't reach to pick the guy and hope he makes the team. Teams that do that wind up 4-12 year after year. Wasting 2nd round picks on a team who seems to never have tons of picks is a disaster in waiting. Don't care for the insisting game, and certainly not when it's based on nothing but fictional narrative. WHERE ARE THE DATA!?!?! You're not wasting a second round pick if actual, substance based thoughts are put into using it rather than just parroting convention because it's nice, safe, and no one will yell at you for being those two things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Don't care for the insisting game, and certainly not when it's based on nothing but fictional narrative. WHERE ARE THE DATA!?!?! You're not wasting a second round pick if actual, substance based thoughts are put into using it rather than just parroting convention because it's nice, safe, and no one will yell at you for being those two things. The facts are Nassib has accuracy issues, he put up numbers in a weak conference, and he's not one of these new age run/pass kind of QBs. He's a guy with a strong arm who played on a college team in a weak conference. Now the hype machine has him being pushed higher than he should be... And if the Jets are serious about the WCO... you take accurate over strong arm any day of the week. Then again, who knows if they are that serious about the WCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 https://twitter.com/nypost_serby/status/311306748680085506 Someone agrees with Gato! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The facts are Nassib has accuracy issues, he put up numbers in a weak conference, and he's not one of these new age run/pass kind of QBs. He's a guy with a strong arm who played on a college team in a weak conference. Now the hype machine has him being pushed higher than he should be... And if the Jets are serious about the WCO... you take accurate over strong arm any day of the week. Then again, who knows if they are that serious about the WCO. - He's completed 62.5% of his past 887 throws. - Conference is a minute factor. - Run/pass QBs need to become pass QBs to stay relevant as QBs. In a typical year someone like Nassib is a solid second round QB prospect. The worry is that someone overrates him due to this being a weak year for QBs and drafts him in the first. Guys like Andy Dalton and Christian Ponder have gone in the first in recent years. A sub-6' QB was thought highly enough last year to be drafted in the 3rd. QBs fly up the boards every single year. Nassib in the second for what he is, someone with starter upside at QB in the NFL, is a bargain or a bust. That's no different from anyone else they might pick except that hitting on a QB is something of a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Stephen Hill was a gamble in the 2nd round. It didn't pay off. The Jets need solid players right now, not gambles. Teams with solid cores of talented players coming off of winning seasons can gamble. Not the Jets. The Jets are dead until they find a plus QB. Without a trade or some magical stud falling to them in the draft, they need to collect a couple of promising prospects and hope one of them emerges. Nassib's as good a candidate to pull a Kirk Cousins as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The Jets are dead until they find a plus QB. Without a trade or some magical stud falling to them in the draft, they need to collect a couple of promising prospects and hope one of them emerges. Nassib's as good a candidate to pull a Kirk Cousins as anyone. I understand that, but their hamstrung with money and other various holes throughout the team. They don't have the extra picks or the right guys making the picks to try and pick a winning QB out of a rabbit hat and then develop him. And there is not a single chance in hell that if they draft someone like Nassib that he beats out Sanchez or even the rotting corpse of David Garrarbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 And there is not a single chance in hell that if they draft someone like Nassib that he beats out Sanchez or even the rotting corpse of David Garrarbage. Rotting Corpse - whattya great nickname for whomever starts at QB next year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I understand that, but their hamstrung with money and other various holes throughout the team. They don't have the extra picks or the right guys making the picks to try and pick a winning QB out of a rabbit hat and then develop him. And there is not a single chance in hell that if they draft someone like Nassib that he beats out Sanchez or even the rotting corpse of David Garrarbage. A rotting corpse who is going to beat out Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 A rotting corpse who is going to beat out Sanchez. I seriously doubt it. Sanchez is the favorite and there is no reason to believe he won't win a competition against a 35 year old has been with two major surgeries in the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I seriously doubt it. Sanchez is the favorite and there is no reason to believe he won't win a competition against a 35 year old has been with two major surgeries in the last two years. 35 isn't old for a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 35 isn't old for a QB. You do realize the only starting QB over 35 last year was Peyton Manning. Tom Brady was 34, Drew Brees 33 or 34. Those are the 'old guy QBs' in the NFL now. And they all are HOF QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 If the Jets draft the QB from syracuse, I'd say he has a legit shot to start. That's the way it works in the NFL these days. Garrard or Daniel are guys who will back up Sanchez. And if Sanchez sucks like he did this past season, I'm sure those guys will get some time. Other than that though, I think people should start accepting that Sanchez will be starting at some point this season. That is unless they draft a QB in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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