Welcome to Gang Green - Mike Goodson

[bitonti]

Thats not the point bit, Laron was aces in all respects and it was a a horrific blow to the backfield. But shelling out that kind of money to a guy with that type of varied injury history would have been crazy.

 

the amount of money Landry wanted wasnt that much, relatively speaking. the jets could have paid him instead of signing 5 garbage players.

[Pac]

maybe I'm misunderstanding but some of those were the low bonuses hitting the cap if they got cut. Garrard makes this team he gets a mil.

 

Idzik's FA shopping is like when you ask your mom for a RL polo shirt from Macys and she gets you 5 izods from Marshalls instead. It's not good and there's no evidence you will get the RL polo shirt next year. He's dumpster diving. 

 

lol..

 

what the hell are you talking about?

[Sperm Edwards]

maybe I'm misunderstanding but some of those were the low bonuses hitting the cap if they got cut. Garrard makes this team he gets a mil.

 

Idzik's FA shopping is like when you ask your mom for a RL polo shirt from Macys and she gets you 5 izods from Marshalls instead. It's not good and there's no evidence you will get the RL polo shirt next year. He's dumpster diving.

Huh? If Garrard makes the team he's the starting QB. That is well worth $1M and then some.

[bitonti]

Huh? If Garrard makes the team he's the starting QB. That is well worth $1M and then some.

 

and he didn't... so now Brady Quinn gets the bulk of that money in the form of vet min. 

 

It's better to bring in good players rather than bad i think this is what I'm trying to say. They could have resigned Landry instead of paying David Garrard/Brady Quinn to be terrible, Peterman/Garay to not make the team etc. 

 

[hotcoles87]

It's $10M now? It's either $6 or $6.9M over 3 years.  

 

 

Actually, Bohannon made the team because Lex frekin Hilliard broke his scapula.

 

 

I think the cap situation is a bit overblown.  I haven't seen Idzik make any great moves.  He has been slow and steady and made zero splash in the market.  That is probably precisely what this team needed.  He has a free year.  If the team tanks 2013 it will be on Rex, so Idzik can sit back and get himself some kind of core together without the noose tightening around his neck. I have no doubt that a better team could have been put together on paper, but you don't win games on paper and now the guy has some flexibility to deal with things during the season and for next offseason.

Ivory signed a deal up to 10 million.  Goodson signed a deal of 6.9.  I don't give a **** enough to argue it-- anything over $1.00 for goodson is a waste, and Ivory will be outplayed by a $600K a year guy who we already had on the roster.  Yes, Hilliard is injured-- hence, Bohannan made it by default, like I said.

[hotcoles87]

Posts like this do not do you credit (though I struggle to find ones that do).

You would have everyone believe that the Jets were the only team to trim a roster down from 80 to 50.

Every season, every team brings in camp fodder and cuts more new faces than they keep. And you know this, but you still only bring it up with the Jets. Other teams make FAR worse signings and make FAR worse draft picks, and still not a peep out of you. Your ire is reserved solely for the Jets.

You are therefore a hypocrite.

Dude, nobody is bitching about Ryan Quigley not making the team after Idzik invested in him.  Draft picks are about a 50/50 shot at panning out.  Free agents are going to have a much better success rate.  However, guys like Peterman, Garrard, Goodson and Ivory all look like straight up bad moves that cost us money and picks.  How hard is it to figure out that these guys either weren't that good, or had major risks that could possibly lead to them not making the team?  I'm not going to throw Garay into that mix because he was at least outplayed by two guys from the previous regeme. 

The move that made 0 sense to me was letting two starting guards walk-- signing Colon to replace one, drafting Winters to replace the other, THEN signing peterman, THEN drafting another, THEN drafting ANOTHER. 

[bitonti]

 The move that made 0 sense to me was letting two starting guards walk-- signing Colon to replace one, drafting Winters to replace the other, THEN signing peterman, THEN drafting another, THEN drafting ANOTHER. 

 

and then starting Vlad. if  we look at this roster, alot of the positive stories like Darren Walls and Bilal Powell were Tanny signings. 

[hotcoles87]

He is a hypocrite because he only finds fault with the Jets for doing what every team does.

I would be happy that the new additions the Jets cut were dirt cheap. Other teams cut expensive players. Other teams have already cut higher draft picks. They don't suck though and their GM is held in high esteem. Only the Jets are required to have every dirt-cheap camp fodder addition reap stellar, long-term benefits.

It is hypocritical.

So are you happy about Ivory and Goodson and their contracts?  I was not happy when we brought in either guy, and I'm more upset about both of them now.  I said Powell is better than either of them, and so far, that's how it looks.  Goodson has always been a knucklehead- fighting with teammates last year should have been the first clue on that one.  Both those guys are a dime a dozen for RB and we overpaid like crazy.  We could have had Stephen Jackson for the money those two bums got-- Jackson got 12 mil/4mil gauranteed for 3 years.  We get Ivory and goodson for that.

 

I think the issue here is, any reasonably intelligent Jets fan would be able to easily see faults in way too many deals in recent history.  Not just in hindsight either.  A few that come to mind:  Harris' massive contract, Sanchez extention, Tebow, Holmes Contract, Restructuring Brick and Cro again, Goodson, Ivory, Trading picks away for mediocre players like Lito Sheppard-- screwing the future for a win now team- trading away picks for guys who come cheap for one year, then demand the big contract.  Signing Role Players like Eric Smith to 3 million dollar deals, giving gauranteed money to guys like Wayne Hunter.  Granted, many of these issues happened before Idzik got here, but you know what- fans have a right to bitch.  When I can call out a sh*tty move the day it happens 11 out of 11 times like I did with every one of these moves, then you know what-- I've earned the right to bitch.  Idzik seems to be gambling on his players way too much.  Everyone we picked up has injury or character concerns, or fumbles, or committs penalties.  If anyone on here thinks were a playoff team, you're just flat out wrong. 

[hotcoles87]

Huh? If Garrard makes the team he's the starting QB. That is well worth $1M and then some.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.  Right- but he didn't.  Anyone who knows the first thing about David Garrard is he would never be able to make it.  He hasn't played since 2010 (it's 2013 now by the way)  He's totally beat up, and has been for a long time.  He had one decent year in 2007.  His last 3 seasons he's averaged 11 fumbles a season.  If you add up the number of sacks, int's and fumbles from his last season, and divide by the number of attempts, he gets sacked, fumbles or throws a pick 16% of the time.  Believe it or not, that's worse than Sanchez.  You can't defend a move like that.  Guy walks with 100K.  Unreal.

[pedro55]

So are you happy about Ivory and Goodson and their contracts?  I was not happy when we brought in either guy, and I'm more upset about both of them now.  I said Powell is better than either of them, and so far, that's how it looks.  Goodson has always been a knucklehead- fighting with teammates last year should have been the first clue on that one.  Both those guys are a dime a dozen for RB and we overpaid like crazy.  We could have had Stephen Jackson for the money those two bums got-- Jackson got 12 mil/4mil gauranteed for 3 years.  We get Ivory and goodson for that.

 

I think the issue here is, any reasonably intelligent Jets fan would be able to easily see faults in way too many deals in recent history.  Not just in hindsight either.  A few that come to mind:  Harris' massive contract, Sanchez extention, Tebow, Holmes Contract, Restructuring Brick and Cro again, Goodson, Ivory, Trading picks away for mediocre players like Lito Sheppard-- screwing the future for a win now team- trading away picks for guys who come cheap for one year, then demand the big contract.  Signing Role Players like Eric Smith to 3 million dollar deals, giving gauranteed money to guys like Wayne Hunter.  Granted, many of these issues happened before Idzik got here, but you know what- fans have a right to bitch.  When I can call out a sh*tty move the day it happens 11 out of 11 times like I did with every one of these moves, then you know what-- I've earned the right to bitch.  Idzik seems to be gambling on his players way too much.  Everyone we picked up has injury or character concerns, or fumbles, or committs penalties.  If anyone on here thinks were a playoff team, you're just flat out wrong. 

 

  People have hope and not much else.  They wear Blinders and drink way to much of  Idziks kool aid.  If Tanny were still around, people would be killing the guy for all these moves.  And it's easy to proclaim, "wait till Rex is fired and he does something next year."   Again, that's the blinders and kool aid as he hasn't proven he actually knows what the hell he's doing yet.  Maybe it'll turn out ok, who knows.  We all have to keep the faith.   The problem so far is Idzik picked injury prone players that most other teams didn't even want as a backup.  THey were cheap, but cheap doesn't have to mean bad players who rarely play due to injury issues.  

 

  I really don't know what the point of half the free agent signings were.  People can come up with BS excuses now, but when the assumption was Garrard was a good signing, he will replace Sanchez, be the QB for a couple seasons while they find the QB of the future, and then he retires before June, what can all those same people really say but come up with more excuses?  Same for Ivory and Goodson.   Far too many people were licking Idzick's jock strap over these moves and as the moves haven't exactly turned out good so far, people need to make excuses for their savior.   Otherwise they have to reveal their own doubts about the future and if he actually knows what he's doing.   Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.  It's just easier to blame Rex for everything.

[Larz]

this year is a the purge year

 

this year is hold the fort guys

 

next year the cavalry gets here

 

anyone who was expecting the jets to over-pay for for big splashy names hasn't been paying attention, it's as simple as that

[pedro55]

this year is a the purge year

 

this year is hold the fort guys

 

next year the cavalry gets here

 

anyone who was expecting the jets to over-pay for for big splashy names hasn't been paying attention, it's as simple as that

 

  This is just what people hope for.  Whether or not it happens, we will see.   And there really is never such a thing as "purge" or throw away years.  Because if Smith sucks and the Jets don't land a top QB next year,  do we call next year a purge year too?   And if the trades/free agent signings and draft picks mostly turn out to be not so good,  what makes you think they'd actually know how to build a winner?

 

 Like I said, there is no such thing as purge or hold the fort.  There should be guys this year who are good, show some talent, give us some hope that more players like them will mean a better Jets team in the future.  Going 4-12 but Ivory turns out to be legit, a few of the draft picks turn out to be legit, even Smith turns out to be legit, it gives you hope for the future and who they might draft and bring in.    But if most of the guys Idzik seemed to bring in suck, why would I just assume next year would be any different?    

[Sperm Edwards]

So are you happy about Ivory and Goodson and their contracts?  I was not happy when we brought in either guy, and I'm more upset about both of them now.  I said Powell is better than either of them, and so far, that's how it looks.  Goodson has always been a knucklehead- fighting with teammates last year should have been the first clue on that one.  Both those guys are a dime a dozen for RB and we overpaid like crazy.  We could have had Stephen Jackson for the money those two bums got-- Jackson got 12 mil/4mil gauranteed for 3 years.  We get Ivory and goodson for that.

 

I think the issue here is, any reasonably intelligent Jets fan would be able to easily see faults in way too many deals in recent history.  Not just in hindsight either.  A few that come to mind:  Harris' massive contract, Sanchez extention, Tebow, Holmes Contract, Restructuring Brick and Cro again, Goodson, Ivory, Trading picks away for mediocre players like Lito Sheppard-- screwing the future for a win now team- trading away picks for guys who come cheap for one year, then demand the big contract.  Signing Role Players like Eric Smith to 3 million dollar deals, giving gauranteed money to guys like Wayne Hunter.  Granted, many of these issues happened before Idzik got here, but you know what- fans have a right to bitch.  When I can call out a sh*tty move the day it happens 11 out of 11 times like I did with every one of these moves, then you know what-- I've earned the right to bitch.  Idzik seems to be gambling on his players way too much.  Everyone we picked up has injury or character concerns, or fumbles, or committs penalties.  If anyone on here thinks were a playoff team, you're just flat out wrong. 

 

I don't feel anything about them right now.  Neither one has played 1 minute of 1 game.

 

Ask me after the season, not after the pre-season.

 

And the guy everyone was saying we missed out on with the Ivory trade was Franklin, who almost got cut after his rookie camp.  Word is he's lazy and looks super-slow and if you didn't know his name you'd swear he was an undrafted FA just there to be camp fodder. It remains to be seen if he's on the roster by the end of his rookie year.

 

If any of those contracts were for expensive players, and then they didn't work out, then I'd be pissed.  They were all cheap or relatively cheap.  The whopping relatively cheap ones are still on the roster.

 

I prefer making draft picks to trading them away. But if we were targeting a RB in the draft in rounds 4 and beyond, I'm ok with Ivory as a risk/reward.  Not in love with it, but I'm ok with it.  It would be good for a rookie QB - which he'd already drafted - to have at least one veteran RB who can both bring a threat of a big play and also be able to pick up blitzes from day one.

 

The thing is that if none of them work out it is of little consequence long-term.  Cheaper players are players that have lower chances of success.  Well duh.  If we didn't have SO many holes and SO much cap space tied up on so few players (departed ones and ones that will be departed next year because they suck), then I'm sure our off-season shopping would have been different.  Just as I expect it to be different next year when we're clear of the half a dozen enormous albatrosses on the team's payroll.

[Sperm Edwards]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.  Right- but he didn't.  Anyone who knows the first thing about David Garrard is he would never be able to make it.  He hasn't played since 2010 (it's 2013 now by the way)  He's totally beat up, and has been for a long time.  He had one decent year in 2007.  His last 3 seasons he's averaged 11 fumbles a season.  If you add up the number of sacks, int's and fumbles from his last season, and divide by the number of attempts, he gets sacked, fumbles or throws a pick 16% of the time.  Believe it or not, that's worse than Sanchez.  You can't defend a move like that.  Guy walks with 100K.  Unreal.

 

Hahaha yourself.  It is of no consequence.  $100K on a $120M cap is a rounding error.  Better to make a cheap error than an expensive one that cripples the franchise.  Like Sanchez.

 

The problem is you aren't looking at this season for what it is: a 16-game tryout.  You don't have to like it, I don't expect a lot of fans to like it, and don't expect the team to admit it.  But that's what it is.

[slats]

This is just what people hope for.  Whether or not it happens, we will see.   And there really is never such a thing as "purge" or throw away years.  Because if Smith sucks and the Jets don't land a top QB next year,  do we call next year a purge year too?   And if the trades/free agent signings and draft picks mostly turn out to be not so good,  what makes you think they'd actually know how to build a winner?

 

 Like I said, there is no such thing as purge or hold the fort.  There should be guys this year who are good, show some talent, give us some hope that more players like them will mean a better Jets team in the future.  Going 4-12 but Ivory turns out to be legit, a few of the draft picks turn out to be legit, even Smith turns out to be legit, it gives you hope for the future and who they might draft and bring in.  

This year is a big mulligan. Of course the team is hoping to hit on their draft picks -including Ivory- but this is phase one of a two year rebuild. If they do hit on a couple of those guys,then they're ahead of the game. Idzik is setting the table this season for the moves he'll need to make next year.

But if most of the guys Idzik seemed to bring in suck, why would I just assume next year would be any different?

The difference will be money available. Right now you have Sanchez, Holmes, and Harris taking up $35M in cap space. That's a short term problem. Can't assume anything, though. It will be interesting to see the approach Idzik takes when he has that money to spend. He doesn't get the luxury of calling next year a purge year, too. QB or not, the team absolutely has to be on an upward swing next season. And if he doesn't have a QB in Geno, he's going to have to address that aggressively, sooner rather than later. If Geno shows anything I could see them giving him another season to prove it, but a second round pick won't get preferential treatment beyond that unless he does.

[Big Blocker]

Many commentators and a healthy percentage of posters here look at the upcoming season as at least an opportunity to see who should be retained as a rebuild progresses into next year's second phase of the process.  I think that is true as well.  But I do have some concerns about essentially going into the year thinking it is okay to not be competitive.

 

First of all, I am concerned about losing becoming if not acceptable, at least understandable (which is a more ambiguous way of saying acceptable).  The concern here is how losing takes the steam out of even the best players' efforts and desire to win.  It doesn't have that effect on everyone of course.  Some get mad and try even harder when they lose, and it's those guys who a GM will include in his keepers going into next year.  But there may well be players who would contribute much to a winning team if they only were on one.  I am particularly here concerned with the younger players.  Players who benefit from seeing how winning is done.

 

It's like in business.  Yes you want to learn what NOT to do when you see failures and what went into them.  But at some point you also want to see what goes into success, and learn from that.  You can only go so far learning from failure.

 

I also think there's a pretty risky prospect of the Jets getting divided if the D does well and the O is awful.  We all know what that risk is.

 

So while I will watch and see this year for who should be part of the ongoing rebuild process, it's not going to be all that clean a process. 

[#27TheDominator]

 

The thing is that if none of them work out it is of little consequence long-term.  Cheaper players are players that have lower chances of success.  Well duh.  If we didn't have SO many holes and SO much cap space tied up on so few players (departed ones and ones that will be departed next year because they suck), then I'm sure our off-season shopping would have been different.  Just as I expect it to be different next year when we're clear of the half a dozen enormous albatrosses on the team's payroll.

 

 

Who are the half dozen albatrosses?  I know Sanchez, Holmes and Harris.  Are there others?  Harris' figure isn't even *that* high.  Cromartie's number is sick and if they dump Rex he might be a goner, but from what we've seen of Wilson and Milliner, they aren't ready to take over.  Maybe they cut him and consider him back for less after checking the market, but he's like $5M dead money.

[Sperm Edwards]

This year is a big mulligan. Of course the team is hoping to hit on their draft picks -including Ivory- but this is phase one of a two year rebuild. If they do hit on a couple of those guys,then they're ahead of the game. Idzik is setting the table this season for the moves he'll need to make next year.

The difference will be money available. Right now you have Sanchez, Holmes, and Harris taking up $35M in cap space. That's a short term problem. Can't assume anything, though. It will be interesting to see the approach Idzik takes when he has that money to spend. He doesn't get the luxury of calling next year a purge year, too. QB or not, the team absolutely has to be on an upward swing next season. And if he doesn't have a QB in Geno, he's going to have to address that aggressively, sooner rather than later. If Geno shows anything I could see them giving him another season to prove it, but a second round pick won't get preferential treatment beyond that unless he does.

 

Also Revis and Pace and Pouha and Tebow and Scott counting another $22M.  Like I've been posting, almost $60M of cap space for those 3 guys on the roster and the 5 not on the roster.  

 

Sorry, but unless rookie Geno Smith is rookie Russell Wilson #2 (as well as hitting on almost every draft pick and having them all pan out as rookies, and our el-cheapo FAs also), and having them all injury-free, we wouldn't have had a winner here no matter what this season.  Barring uncanny luck, you can't field a contending team with that kind of handicap. 

 

You can hope it would happen or wish that "if only we'd gotten [name of other scrub QB] instead of Garrard" then yadda yadda yadda.  But it wasn't happening.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Who are the half dozen albatrosses?  I know Sanchez, Holmes and Harris.  Are there others?  Harris' figure isn't even *that* high.  Cromartie's number is sick and if they dump Rex he might be a goner, but from what we've seen of Wilson and Milliner, they aren't ready to take over.  Maybe they cut him and consider him back for less after checking the market, but he's like $5M dead money.

 

see my post above.  And Harris' figure this year is $13M.  That is high.  Next year we will be free of that "albatross" number along with that of Sanchez, Holmes, and the other albatrosses in dead cap we're carrying this season for Revis and others.

[#27TheDominator]

see my post above.  And Harris' figure this year is $13M.  That is high.  Next year we will be free of that "albatross" number along with that of Sanchez, Holmes, and the other albatrosses in dead cap we're carrying this season for Revis and others.

 

Ah.  So you aren't talking about making any moves per se. Just the inevitable march of time.