Second round targets

[slats]

Well lets put it this way, if I hear us draft Geno at #9 I wont be throwing the remote control at the wall like I did when I heard us draft Sanchez at #5. 

My reaction would be similar to when they took Pennington. I didn't want him, I didn't expect him, but if they think he's good enough to be the guy... ? Okay.

If they take a guard, I'll lose it.

[SenorGato]

read my post last time i told you why i think geno and a G plus offensive FA would make the team good. In short Bigger offensive improvement then defensive decrease.

 

You realize that your master plan could be pulled off without trading Revis right? That a G in the first round is a dumb idea, even from someone who would *love* to add Jonathan Cooper to this roster? You reaize that you're picking Geno Smith at 9, a pick that doesn't require trading the team's best player to make? You realize that arguably the two best guards in the league right now were 4th and 5th round picks? That the Jets just milked 3 good years out of a 6th round G who did the job just fine? That the other guard on the roster, a multi-time Pro Bowl player, was an UDFA DT turned OG?

 

Your plan, and the case for it, still stinks.

 

BTW: Which cheap offensive FA star is coming in to save the franchise?

 

Who are these good draft picks you want? Unnamed players coming in years

from now? Its to general everyone wants good drafts lemme hear some

specifics.

 

 

I really don't think you've been able to follow me.

 

There are plenty of players to draft - Mingo, Werner, Geno, Austin, and Jordan are all legit candidates for 9 who would be playing *cheap* for at least 4 years. Could you imagine what a truly talented pass rusher like Mingo or Werner (or Jones maybe) could do with a secondary as loaded as the Jets? Jones was the king of the coverage sack in college. Austin would give the roster the most productive offensive playmaker in college football. Geno would give them an experienced, polished passer to try out. Jordan brings a variety of tools to defense and is possibly a candidate to handle the new breed of TEs with his height, speed, and experience dropping into coverage (also the least favorite of the guys just mentioned).

 

There are Gs/OL in the second+ rounds such as Dallas Thomas, Larry Warford, Winters, Bailey, Quessenberry, Watford, Winters, Long, Tretter, Fragel, Watson, Pugh, Aboushi, B. Williams...I mean are you kidding me? These players exist - Unknown Offensive FA star is still going by that name. There's RB talent...Christine Michael, Jonathan Franklin, and so on...there's WR talent..and that's just THIS ONE DRAFT.

 

Do you plan on giving these guys Rodgers or Ware/Suggs/Allen/Hali money right off the bat? Is that part of the master plan to contend ASAP? I mean we're all cap masters now - what's your take on the next 5 years of spending for the Jets? Trade Revis so they can go out and buy a Calvin Pace and a couple of 2-3 year band aids (Faneca/Woody) again in 2014/2015? Sounds appealing.

[jetsjetsjetss]

You realize that your master plan could be pulled off without trading Revis right? That a G in the first round is a dumb idea, even from someone who would *love* to add Jonathan Cooper to this roster? You reaize that you're picking Geno Smith at 9, a pick that doesn't require trading the team's best player to make? You realize that arguably the two best guards in the league right now were 4th and 5th round picks? That the Jets just milked 3 good years out of a 6th round G who did the job just fine? That the other guard on the roster, a multi-time Pro Bowl player, was an UDFA DT turned OG?

 

Your plan, and the case for it, still stinks.

 

BTW: Which cheap offensive FA star is coming in to save the franchise?

 

 

I really don't think you've been able to follow me.

 

There are plenty of players to draft - Mingo, Werner, Geno, Austin, and Jordan are all legit candidates for 9 who would be playing *cheap* for at least 4 years. Could you imagine what a truly talented pass rusher like Mingo or Werner (or Jones maybe) could do with a secondary as loaded as the Jets? Jones was the king of the coverage sack in college. Austin would give the roster the most productive offensive playmaker in college football. Geno would give them an experienced, polished passer to try out. Jordan brings a variety of tools to defense and is possibly a candidate to handle the new breed of TEs with his height, speed, and experience dropping into coverage (also the least favorite of the guys just mentioned).

 

There are Gs/OL in the second+ rounds such as Dallas Thomas, Larry Warford, Winters, Bailey, Quessenberry, Watford, Winters, Long, Tretter, Fragel, Watson, Pugh, Aboushi, B. Williams...I mean are you kidding me? These players exist - Unknown Offensive FA star is still going by that name. There's RB talent...Christine Michael, Jonathan Franklin, and so on...there's WR talent..and that's just THIS ONE DRAFT.

 

Do you plan on giving these guys Rodgers or Ware/Suggs/Allen/Hali money right off the bat? Is that part of the master plan to contend ASAP? I mean we're all cap masters now - what's your take on the next 5 years of spending for the Jets? Trade Revis so they can go out and buy a Calvin Pace and a couple of 2-3 year band aids (Faneca/Woody) again in 2014/2015? Sounds appealing.

 

nah im not trying to replace a star with a star i think thats what your missing. Geno and the gaurd will get paid sh*tty cause of the new cba revis will save us atleast 10m to spend. Im not saying go out and sign another guy for 10m thats just dumb.

 

heres the scenario: at 13 the o line guy (whoever is left idk how this draft is going) comes in and starts providing a great o line for the jets. Lots of time to throw and big holes to run through. Geno comes in and is a solid QB helped by the fact his line is great and the RB (whoever is the guy this year out of the 3) has a good season because of again, giant friken holes. We make the playoffs.

 

and of course we can draft a qb and gaurd without trading revis. What your not getting is I dont care. I dont think revis is worth it so this is how id get rid of him.

 

PS: im glad after all this time youve finally gotten a little more specific. But my plan is still better and yours still isnt that specific. Tell me exactly who you would draft in this year and however long you think itll take us to get back to contending. Tell me the scenario. Convince me

[jetsjetsjetss]

On the same note, if I hear us trade Revis on draft day, the remote is going thru the TV

 

 

Well lets put it this way, if I hear us draft Geno at #9 I wont be throwing the remote control at the wall like I did when I heard us draft Sanchez at #5. 

 

haha my plan still hinges on the fact we trade revis. I just dont think hes worth it. We could still make the playoffs with him and a second round linemen though.

[stugotz81]

My reaction would be similar to when they took Pennington. I didn't want him, I didn't expect him, but if they think he's good enough to be the guy... ? Okay.

If they take a guard, I'll lose it.

Yea I was a little bit on the confused side when I saw chad drafted in 1st. What was he like 17th or 18th overall?? Either way, I ended up liking Chad a lot just because of the guys character.  If he had a better arm and avoided shoulder injuries the guy could of really been something.  

 

If Idzik takes a guard in the first round I'll be shocked. That is no way to make your introduction to the organization by using your first pick ever as our GM to draft a guard.  A good quality Guard can be picked up in free agency almost every year and at a decent price too. It will make me even more nervous for the future.....so yeah, I'll be losing it too.

[stugotz81]

haha my plan still hinges on the fact we trade revis. I just dont think hes worth it. We could still make the playoffs with him and a second round linemen though.

Of course I agree that he may not be worth some obscene contract but I do think he is worth resigning at a fair for both sides type contract. But because both Woody and Revis seem to be as stubborn as they come I doubt their gonna reach an agreement unfortunately.  

[whodeawhodat]

Fine Gato...No guard @ #9....you convinced me...Best OLB avail or hopefully trade down imo...pick up guard in rd #4, we never miss in round #4(comparatively speaking).

[jetsjetsjetss]

Of course I agree that he may not be worth some obscene contract but I do think he is worth resigning at a fair for both sides type contract. But because both Woody and Revis seem to be as stubborn as they come I doubt their gonna reach an agreement unfortunately.  

 

yea i think 10 is the max id sign him for. But even thats pushing it seeing how now he has injury concerns.

[SenorGato]

But my plan is still better and yours still isnt that specific.

 

It's not specific, but it is a fact. 

[dbatesman]

Jamie Collins is a good idea. 

 

+1 

 

The numbers say Collins is going to be really good.

[SenorGato]

Double 

[SenorGato]

Are you saying we keep Revis, see how the knee works out and then try to resign him? Or are you saying that we lock him up to an extension right now? How much are you willing to pay him? How's his knee doing? How was the pass defense last year without him?

 

The first one, but I would not mind the second one either depending on the price. 6/70 with a 15-20 million dollar signing bonus would still hold my interest if I were the Jets. It's pretty much the Jared Allen deal. 

 

The pass defense was significantly weaker without him, just barely getting into the top 10 after finishing top 2 for most of the previous 2-3 seasons. 

 

 

+1 

 

The numbers say Collins is going to be really good.

 

6'4" too...Great size and athleticism to move to LB for Ryan. I wonder if he mulligans year one or can be used as a pass rusher right away. Either way, definitely a guy who should go high as a long term DE/OLB prospect. 

[stugotz81]

The first one, but I would not mind the second one either depending on the price. 6/70 with a 15-20 million dollar signing bonus would still hold my interest if I were the Jets. It's pretty much the Jared Allen deal. 

 

The pass defense was significantly weaker without him, just barely getting into the top 10 after finishing top 2 for most of the previous 2-3 seasons. 

 

 

 

6'4" too...Great size and athleticism to move to LB for Ryan. I wonder if he mulligans year one or can be used as a pass rusher right away. Either way, definitely a guy who should go high as a long term DE/OLB prospect. 

I completely agree here.  Lots of people have mentioned how are pass defense did fine without him last season but our defense wasn't even competing most games so I don't feel its a fair statement to say we did fine without him.  

[Gastineau Lives]

I completely agree here.  Lots of people have mentioned how are pass defense did fine without him last season but our defense wasn't even competing most games so I don't feel its a fair statement to say we did fine without him.  

I would agree with this if opposing QB's weren't completing a sub-Sanchez 53% of their passes for 6.5 ypa (also very Sanchez-like). This is all done on the fly, mind you, in-season.

[Greenseed4]

I would agree with this if opposing QB's weren't completing a sub-Sanchez 53% of their passes for 6.5 ypa (also very Sanchez-like). This is all done on the fly, mind you, in-season.

Where did you get that stat?

[T0mShane]

6/70 with a 15-20 million dollar signing bonus

Hahahahahahahahshahahagagagafsfeahgfdfhhfgvbhjhbvfhkfddfvnugfsssaaadfs

[T0mShane]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[T0mShane]

A ha.

[T0mShane]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh golly.

[Gastineau Lives]

Where did you get that stat?

NFL.COM under "team stats" and then "passing"

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

 

And here is 2011: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=true&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&qualified=false

 

In 2011, with a healthy Revis, teams threw the ball for a completion percentage of 54.2. 2012? 53.8.  

 

They had a ypa allowed of 6.7. 2012? 6.5

 

Total yards per game given up in 2011 - 201.0  In 2012 it was 189.8

 

Pass Defense ranking in 2011? Fifth. In 2012? Second.

 

Of course teams threw the ball way more on us last year because our offense was so incredibly bad and our run defense sucked. Why yes they did, they threw the ball 13 more times in 2011 than they did in 2012, an average of roughly eight-tenths of a pass more per game. I've just created a new definition of "way" when paired with "more".

 

AGAIN, THIS WAS ALL DONE WHILE REPLACING A STARTING CORNERBACK ON THE FLY WITHOUT A FULL OFFSEASON TO FIND A REPLACEMENT.

 

If you want to have even more fun, go back to 2010 and see how different the numbers are. I'll save you the trouble; not very, as a matter of fact they ranked 6th in pass defense that year. I can't wait to see what we do in 2013 with Revis coming off of knee surgery. I don't think anyone will complete a pass on us, maybe Tom Brady and only a few to the TE's but other than that, nothing.

 

Clearly, Darrelle Revis plays an impact position, is the team MVP and should be the face of the franchise for years to come and be paid as such. Give him what he deserves! He's absolutely worth the headache and the cap room.

[Gastineau Lives]

Hahahahahahahahshahahagagagafsfeahgfdfhhfgvbhjhbvfhkfddfvnugfsssaaadfs

My favorite parts of this post are agaga and sssaaad.

[bitonti]

my favorite 2nd round targets: 

 

S eric reid, LSU

WR Quinton patton, LA tech

DE devin taylor, South Carolina 

RB jonathan franklin, UCLA 

QB Tyler wilson, arkansas

[SenorGato]

Once again:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Teens against the run this past season and tenth against the pass.

In 2011 they are second, actually second and not QBR second, against the pass and overall. The previous low with Revise and Ryan together was 5th overall and 7 against the pass in the year Revise missed 3-4 games. That was the year they got [mediocre] starter level play at QB.

What headache btw? You.ladies are.just oversensitive and.prone.to.buying way too much into your soaps. Nothings even happened lol there's no headache.

[SenorGato]

my favorite 2nd round targets:

S eric reid, LSU

WR Quinton patton, LA tech

DE devin taylor, South Carolina

RB jonathan franklin, UCLA

QB Tyler wilson, arkansas

You like Devon Taylor? What's your take on him?

[Gastineau Lives]

Once again:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Teens against the run this past season and tenth against the pass.

In 2011 they are second, actually second and not QBR second, against the pass and overall. The previous low with Revise and Ryan together was 5th overall and 7 against the pass in the year Revise missed 3-4 games. That was the year they got [mediocre] starter level play at QB.

What headache btw? You.ladies are.just oversensitive and.prone.to.buying way too much into your soaps. Nothings even happened lol there's no headache.

Oh, these are the super special stats. Please interpret them for us simpletons who just look at yardage, completion percentage and yards you give up everytime the other team's thingy throws the thingy.

 

I'm sure every GM goes right to the Football Outsiders homepage when evaluating every position on their roster. How much is a 12% drop in Football Outsider numbers worth by the way? What is it, like 700,000 bucks of salary cap room  per percentage point? There must be a chart for that, amirite?

 

By the way, now did that great Denver pass defense do in the playoffs? How is it that such an efficient machine got their asses handed to them? San Francisco?

[bitonti]

You like Devon Taylor? What's your take on him?

 

at first i thought he was too tall for the 3-4. But he blew people up at E/W. watching film hes actually a really versatile athlete. they put him in the flat in coverage. they had him rush the passer. he's a really underrated athlete. check the highlights they are impressive. 

[SenorGato]

I think GMs would punch them in the stomach, take their glasses, and relieve them of their pocket.protectors.

A 12% drop would be pretty major in any business, no clue on why this would.be different besides JN insisting over and over again that CB just doesn't matter. I cant believe that's even a premise that is entertained, **** that bought hook line and sinker, by so many here in the first place.

I am.sure, very sure, that most GMs are well aware of FO because its 2013. In fact, id say the smart ones rely on something more like this than the basics NFL.com gives.

Also your whole.completion% thing ignores the crap out of.the safety play the Jets got last year. Some.of.the best in the league and waaaaaay better than the Jets have had in years and years.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

[SenorGato]

at first i thought he was too tall for the 3-4. But he blew people up at E/W. watching film hes actually a really versatile athlete. they put him in the flat in coverage. they had him rush the passer. he's a really underrated athlete. check the highlights they are impressive.

I was looking at.him as a Michael Johnson type but stopped.paying attention.

[SenorGato]

By the way, now did that great Denver pass defense do in the playoffs? How is it that such an efficient machine got their asses handed to them? San Francisco?

 

 

 

By the way, Denver's offense also was on the Denver roster when they lost. They did it with the Holy Grail - a 20 million dollar QB. That's supposed to seal the deal! Manning was making more than Flacco during the playoff run, why didn't that factor into the outcomes? **** so what's the secret!?!?!? 

[Gastineau Lives]

I think GMs would punch them in the stomach, take their glasses, and relieve them of their pocket.protectors.

A 12% drop would be pretty major in any business, no clue on why this would.be different besides JN insisting over and over again that CB just doesn't matter. I cant believe that's even a premise that is entertained, **** that bought hook line and sinker, by so many here in the first place.

I am.sure, very sure, that most GMs are well aware of FO because its 2013. In fact, id say the smart ones rely on something more like this than the basics NFL.com gives.

Also your whole.completion% thing ignores the crap out of.the safety play the Jets got last year. Some.of.the best in the league and waaaaaay better than the Jets have had in years and years.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

Dump Revis, get competent safeties. Got it.

[Gastineau Lives]

 

By the way, Denver's offense also was on the Denver roster when they lost. They did it with the Holy Grail - a 20 million dollar QB. That's supposed to seal the deal! Manning was making more than Flacco during the playoff run, why didn't that factor into the outcomes? **** so what's the secret!?!?!? 

Is this a response to my post or are you fighting someone else by proxy?

[Untouchable]

DeAndre Hopkins (not sure if he'll last that long)

Robert Woods

Quinton Patton

Justin Hunter

Zach Ertz

Gavin Escobar

Jamie Collins

Dallas Thomas

Sylvester Williams

Montee Ball

Mike Glennon

EJ Manuel

Matt Elam

Jonathan Cyprien

[SenorGato]

I like Quiton Patton more when he was a 3-4 round guy.