Yahoo: Bucs offer 1st, 3rd, 6th for Revis; to pay him $15m-$16m

[T0mShane]

Is that true? The Jets can get Revis more than his six million in 2013? I thought they had to shred that contract, sign him to a new one, and the pro-rated portion of the bonus hits immediately.

[slats]

considering the Jets don't have a QB deserving of the money, or any chance of finding one in free agency, i don't see the problem. You take the money away from Revis, who gets it? I've asked this question a hundred different ways without any answers that make sense. If the JEts draft a QB they won't have to pay him "QB money" for 4-5 years. 

Trading Revis nets the team -rumor has it- two high draft picks and anywhere from $12-15M/year in cap room.

The cap room should buy two or three very good to great starters, and the picks should also result in starters. So four or five starters in total (2 or 3 of which with proven track records in the NFL) for Revis and his cap room.

[bitonti]

Trading Revis nets the team -rumor has it- two high draft picks and anywhere from $12-15M/year in cap room.

The cap room should buy two or three very good to great starters, and the picks should also result in starters. So four or five starters in total (2 or 3 of which with proven track records in the NFL) for Revis and his cap room.

 

you guys have an inflated opinion of the free agency market. Calvin Pace and Bart Scott are your two "Very good to great" starters. Free agency is the place for players that teams don't want any more. You don't find a Revis or an Aaron Rodgers in free agency. 

[bitonti]

Call it whatever you want.  It's also reality.

 

if you say so. Do you have other predictions? What are my lucky lotto numbers?

[bitonti]

This team is not about 2013. It is building beyond that. Teams that suck, that focus on one year are stupid. I don't want the Jets to be stupid.

 

there is no such thing as rebuilding. every year every team sees 15-20% churn. All you have is this year. Every year. This long term planning thing is a joke. Teams don't get worse and then get better on a schedule. 

[faba]

This argument will go  until this is settled but I do not want to cripple our ability to produce a complete roster for this year and years to come-not with a CB no matter who good he is. Look at the salaries for the DB in free agency- they are taking a hit

[slats]

you guys have an inflated opinion of the free agency market. Calvin Pace and Bart Scott are your two "Very good to great" starters. Free agency is the place for players that teams don't want any more. You don't find a Revis or an Aaron Rodgers in free agency. 

If the Jets don't trade Revis, you'll find a Revis in free agency next year.

[T0mShane]

there is no such thing as rebuilding. every year every team sees 15-20% churn. All you have is this year. Every year. This long term planning thing is a joke. Teams don't get worse and then get better on a schedule.

^Dan Snyder

[bitonti]

^Dan Snyder

 

im not saying spend it all every year like a mad man... but this idea that the Jets can be bad in 2013 and ok in 2014 and great in 2015 is complete bull. There is not a schedule for rebuilding. There are teams in this league who have been "Rebuilding' for a decade. 

[bitonti]

If the Jets don't trade Revis, you'll find a Revis in free agency next year.

 

he won't get to free agency. Because he's very good. He will either be traded or re-signed. The outcome of Revis on the open market is probably the least likely outcome and I think you know that. 

 

im still waiting for the names of these two-three great starters the Jets would get. I actually scoured the FA lists for next year. Do you want Justin Tuck or Hakeem Nicks instead of Revis.

[Bleedin Green]

If the Jets don't trade Revis, you'll find a Revis in free agency next year.

 

No you won't.   Don't you know, a Revis is NEVER in free agency.

 

Of course, even if that were true, that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your point about the Jets' potential ability to sign starters via FA.  It has become difficult to remember the last argument about Revis from bit or gato that wasn't a straw man.

[bitonti]

No you won't.   Don't you know, a Revis is NEVER in free agency.

 

Of course, even if that were true, that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your point about the Jets' potential ability to sign starters via FA.  It has become difficult to remember the last argument about Revis from bit or gato that wasn't a straw man.

 

He's not getting to free agency. You want to bet money on it? 

[Bleedin Green]

He's not getting to free agency. You want to bet money on it? 

 

Probably not.  After all, that's the whole reason the Jets are trying to trade him.  They seem to have no interest in giving him the new contract he wants and know it would be idiotic to let him walk next year.  Yet you're the one who has, on multiple occasions, endorsed doing exactly that if they don't extend him themselves.  In all likelihood he's a Buc at some point in the next 12 days or so and has a fat new contract to go along with it.

 

That still says nothing about the Jets ability to find any starters via FA, particularly since the entire concept is based around the idea of finding guys who won't have the monstrous price tag that comes along with a guy like Revis.

[T0mShane]

im not saying spend it all every year like a mad man... but this idea that the Jets can be bad in 2013 and ok in 2014 and great in 2015 is complete bull. There is not a schedule for rebuilding. There are teams in this league who have been "Rebuilding' for a decade.

Likewise, you don't go from "suck" to "contender" in one offseason, either. It takes time to collect the requisite pieces to contend--the quarterback and coach being the most important. Currently, the Jets have neither and it's up to Idzik to find both. It won't happen this year, and it's hard to see how it works out next year. What you hope is that he finds a developmental QB this year, and the proper coaching to bring him along. Call it what you want, but the Jets are rebuilding.

[slats]

He's not getting to free agency. You want to bet money on it? 

If they go with your idea of bringing him into the regular season under his current contract, he will.

But that's a very bad idea, and I don't think they'll do that.

[slats]

im not saying spend it all every year like a mad man... but this idea that the Jets can be bad in 2013 and ok in 2014 and great in 2015 is complete bull. There is not a schedule for rebuilding. There are teams in this league who have been "Rebuilding' for a decade. 

Why is that complete bull? Can teams never improve? Or do they only improve by magic?

The Jets roster looks pretty weak this year, they have no cap room, and the free agent market wasn't wonderful, either. So why not actually plan two years out? Be frugal this year with some depth signings, draft players you don't find in free agency (play makers rather than guards), and set yourself up for a 2014 when you'll have a load of cap room?

[Gastineau Lives]

He's not getting to free agency. You want to bet money on it? 

Yeah, we can go double or nothing on your Jet Super Bowl prediction.

[bitonti]

Why is that complete bull? Can teams never improve? Or do they only improve by magic?

The Jets roster looks pretty weak this year, they have no cap room, and the free agent market wasn't wonderful, either. So why not actually plan two years out? Be frugal this year with some depth signings, draft players you don't find in free agency (play makers rather than guards), and set yourself up for a 2014 when you'll have a load of cap room?

 

what's bull is the schedule. Everyone from Idzik to the ballboy gets evaluated every year. Idzik has to improve the team now. He can't go from 6-10 to 2-14 and sell it to Woody as an improvement. 

[bitonti]

That still says nothing about the Jets ability to find any starters via FA, particularly since the entire concept is based around the idea of finding guys who won't have the monstrous price tag that comes along with a guy like Revis.

 

starters dont win games. stars win games. Play-makers, difference makers, whatever you want to call it. replacing Revis with 2 or 3 solid starters isn't an upgrade. 

[RSJ]

what's bull is the schedule. Everyone from Idzik to the ballboy gets evaluated every year. Idzik has to improve the team now. He can't go from 6-10 to 2-14 and sell it to Woody as an improvement. 

 

 

If that happens then Rex and Sanchez are both gone. Idzik does not take the fall for a 2-14 season. Thats why its a great year for him to stock up on young talent and veteran fodder and then see what happens.

[bitonti]

If that happens then Rex and Sanchez are both gone. Idzik does not take the fall for a 2-14 season. Thats why its a great year for him to stock up on young talent and veteran fodder and then see what happens.

 

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

[Bleedin Green]

starters dont win games. stars win games. Play-makers, difference makers, whatever you want to call it. replacing Revis with 2 or 3 solid starters isn't an upgrade. 

 

And this is where the primary difference in opinion starts on this issue.  Many of those who support the trade of Revis' problem with this logic is that they feel CBs, even star CBs, do not win games on their own as you are suggesting, and that being willing to take a downgrade at the position is worth the ability to upgrade the team at multiple other positions (the 2 or 3 solid starters you mention via FA, plus whatever they can get out of the draft picks they receive in return).  Revis is undoubtedly an exceptional player, it's just that many feel that the Jets would be better served using their resources in areas much more vital to the team, particularly considering that even without Revis the Jets' pass defense was amongst the very least of it's issues last season.  His less than smooth history with the team only compounds that for some.

[whodeawhodat]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

I think he wants 2013 picks because they are worth more.  He then has an option of trading back to the 2014 draft for even more picks. If he goes straight to the 2014 draft he loses that option.

[Scott Dierking]

He's not getting to free agency. You want to bet money on it? 

The Jets are not going to be .500 in 2013 with or without Revis. You want to bet money on it?

[bitonti]

And this is where the primary difference in opinion starts on this issue.  Many of those who support the trade of Revis' problem with this logic is that they feel CBs, even star CBs, do not win games on their own as you are suggesting, and that being willing to take a downgrade at the position is worth the ability to upgrade the team at multiple other positions (the 2 or 3 solid starters you mention via FA, plus whatever they can get out of the draft picks they receive in return).  Revis is undoubtedly an exceptional player, it's just that many feel that the Jets would be better served using their resources in areas much more vital to the team, particularly considering that even without Revis the Jets' pass defense was amongst the very least of it's issues last season.  His less than smooth history with the team only compounds that for some.

 

When I think of Revis I think of the pick he made against Romo to beat the cowboys on 9-11. The 100 yard  pick-6 he made against Miami during monday night football. the pick 6 against carolina.

 

Big plays. That's what wins games.

 

When people say revis doesn't win games, that goes against my memory of Revis.

 

You guys maybe remember his hold outs when we talk about Revis. And I will grant that offseason Revis is a PITA.

 

But make no mistake when he's on the field he wins games. 

[Scott Dierking]

what's bull is the schedule. Everyone from Idzik to the ballboy gets evaluated every year. Idzik has to improve the team now. He can't go from 6-10 to 2-14 and sell it to Woody as an improvement. 

How does Rex have his job still, then?

[bitonti]

The Jets are not going to be .500 in 2013 with or without Revis. You want to bet money on it?

 

I think they can be .500 with Revis. Without him, probably not. He's a winner that helps the team win games. I'd bet on the team being .500 with Revis.

[bitonti]

How does Rex have his job still, then?

 

you know the answer to that. 

[Bleedin Green]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

 

While Idzik is obviously going to try to help the Jets win as many games as reasonably possible this year, what would be dumber than tanking the season (which no one is suggesting) would be mortgaging the future in order to pick up an extra win or two in a season that he doesn't believe his team has a chance to be a true contender in.  Sure, he wants 2013 draft picks, but 2013 draft picks aren't all about the 2013 season.  In reality, most draft picks typically bring much more value to the team in future years than in the year they are picked, which would still support the idea of trying to get the picks for as soon as possible even if the goal is to build for the future.  That's what the draft is really all about and the reason why you don't typically see teams shipping off every pick they have in trades for veteran players.

[Scott Dierking]

When I think of Revis I think of the pick he made against Romo to beat the cowboys on 9-11. The 100 yard  pick-6 he made against Miami during monday night football. the pick 6 against carolina.

 

Big plays. That's what wins games.

 

When people say revis doesn't win games, that goes against my memory of Revis.

 

You guys maybe remember his hold outs when we talk about Revis. And I will grant that offseason Revis is a PITA.

 

But make no mistake when he's on the field he wins games. 

Bit-You are loyal. You hung onto the hope of Robertson being this great player. You hung onto the hope of Gholston being, well. not Gholston. Even this year mid-season, you told us "Sanchez was turning a corner".

 

Loyalty is admirable. But when you hold onto it too long, in the NFL, you are out a job

[Scott Dierking]

I think they can be .500 with Revis. Without him, probably not. He's a winner that helps the team win games. I'd bet on the team being .500 with Revis.

How much? Not that I think he will be with the team.

[Gastineau Lives]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

He's inheriting a 6-10 team with a horrendous QB, a depleted roster that was over the cap and a lame duck coach and this a year he DOESN'T want to use a "get out of jail free card"?

[bitonti]

While Idzik is obviously going to try to help the Jets win as many games as reasonably possible this year, what would be dumber than tanking the season (which no one is suggesting) would be mortgaging the future in order to pick up an extra win or two in a season that he doesn't believe his team has a chance to be a true contender in.  Sure, he wants 2013 draft picks, but 2013 draft picks aren't all about the 2013 season.  In reality, most draft picks typically bring much more value to the team in future years than in the year they are picked, which would still support the idea of trying to get the picks for as soon as possible even if the goal is to build for the future.  That's what the draft is really all about and the reason why you don't typically see teams shipping off every pick they have in trades for veteran players.

 

ok so using that logic 2014 draft picks help the 2017 team. How long can Idzik turn in losing records without getting fired? he's got 3-5 years max. 

[pedro55]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

 

  It's a tough position to be in for a new GM.   If the Jets stink, they blame the coaches and fire everybody.   Then it becomes about finding the right coach.  That's always a crap shoot.   Hell, even as great as Parcell's was turning franchises around, he soon quit without winning anything. And he was a guy who wanted total control.  At this point Idzik will be more like an AJ Smith.  Jets stink, Rex is fired, hire some newbie college coach who will be like a Norv Turner.  Maybe it turns out great. Maybe it doesn't. But Idzik will control everything.    The onus is on him to actually build something great. 

 

  You never throw away seasons though.   If the Jets go 2-14 and fire everybody and wind up picking some stud QB in 2014.  There is no guarantee that kid will be a star.  And even if he has a rookie year like Cam Newton did,  the Panthers are still waiting for a winning season and aren't in any conversation about contending teams going into year 3 of Cam Newton's career.   And that is a normal progression.   

 

 Go 2-14 your first year, fire everybody, go 6-10 with a good rookie QB, go 7-9,  and then go 8-8 maybe.....   So 4 years an no playoff appearances.  Who would consider that a good GM?     The Panthers could surprise people this year, but nobody would flinch if they wound up 7-9 again.    That's the problem with the theory of the Jets throwing away a season and going just 5-11 this year.   And Cam Newton has actually been a decent young QB.   And they still haven't been a good team.

[bitonti]

Bit-You are loyal. You hung onto the hope of Robertson being this great player. You hung onto the hope of Gholston being, well. not Gholston. Even this year mid-season, you told us "Sanchez was turning a corner".

 

Loyalty is admirable. But when you hold onto it too long, in the NFL, you are out a job

 

 

This is avoiding the argument and attacking the source. I could reply with attacks on you. BUt that would require me remembering the things you said. I take it as a compliment that you are such a big fan of my posts.