Yahoo: Bucs offer 1st, 3rd, 6th for Revis; to pay him $15m-$16m

[slats]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

He hasn't made any moves so far that make it look as if he's focused on winning this year. The only mortgage style contract he did was Cromartie's, which says a lot about Revis' future with the Jets. He's very possibly targeted cut players in free agency in an effort to max out on comp picks in 2014.

Idzik already has a pass for this year. As much as you don't seem to believe in long term planning, the Jets brought in a methodical guy precisely to put a long term plan into effect. They tried the seat of your pants operation under Tannenbaum, and it left them with overpaid underachievers and a depth-free roster. This season his hands are tied because of Rex, Sanchez, Harris, Holmes... the moves are minimal because his options are non-existent. Next year is when he'll start being judged on wins and losses.

[bitonti]

  It's a tough position to be in for a new GM.   If the Jets stink, they blame the coaches and fire everybody.   Then it becomes about finding the right coach.  That's always a crap shoot.   Hell, even as great as Parcell's was turning franchises around, he soon quit without winning anything. And he was a guy who wanted total control.  At this point Idzik will be more like an AJ Smith.  Jets stink, Rex is fired, hire some newbie college coach who will be like a Norv Turner.  Maybe it turns out great. Maybe it doesn't. But Idzik will control everything.    The onus is on him to actually build something great. 

 

  You never throw away seasons though.   If the Jets go 2-14 and fire everybody and wind up picking some stud QB in 2014.  There is no guarantee that kid will be a star.  And even if he has a rookie year like Cam Newton did,  the Panthers are still waiting for a winning season and aren't in any conversation about contending teams going into year 3 of Cam Newton's career.   And that is a normal progression.   

 

 Go 2-14 your first year, fire everybody, go 6-10 with a good rookie QB, go 7-9,  and then go 8-8 maybe.....   So 4 years an no playoff appearances.  Who would consider that a good GM?     The Panthers could surprise people this year, but nobody would flinch if they wound up 7-9 again.    That's the problem with the theory of the Jets throwing away a season and going just 5-11 this year.   And Cam Newton has actually been a decent young QB.   And they still haven't been a good team.

'

 

this is a good post and note that the Carolina Panthers fired their GM this year. Marty Hurney was fired after the team went 1-5. the team's new GM is a guy named Dave Gettleman. 

[bitonti]

  Next year is when he'll start being judged on wins and losses.

 

this is New York he will be judged week 1. This idea that Idzik has a free year is a fantasy. There are no free years in this league. 

[bitonti]

How much? Not that I think he will be with the team.

 

I'd bet 50 bucks that the 2013 Jets with Revis go .500. 

[pedro55]

When I think of Revis I think of the pick he made against Romo to beat the cowboys on 9-11. The 100 yard  pick-6 he made against Miami during monday night football. the pick 6 against carolina.

 

Big plays. That's what wins games.

 

When people say revis doesn't win games, that goes against my memory of Revis.

 

You guys maybe remember his hold outs when we talk about Revis. And I will grant that offseason Revis is a PITA.

 

But make no mistake when he's on the field he wins games. 

 

  I guess you forgot that the Jets finished 4-12, 9-7, 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 6-10 in his career.    So really, the Jets had one great season, a couple of great playoff runs and a .500 team the rest of the guys career.  As great as Revis is,  he doesn't win the Jets games.  The teams record over his career kind of tells you that.  

[Scott Dierking]

This is avoiding the argument and attacking the source. I could reply with attacks on you. BUt that would require me remembering the things you said. I take it as a compliment that you are such a big fan of my posts. 

The source seems to be the problem at this point;)

[Bleedin Green]

When I think of Revis I think of the pick he made against Romo to beat the cowboys on 9-11. The 100 yard  pick-6 he made against Miami during monday night football. the pick 6 against carolina.

 

Big plays. That's what wins games.

 

When people say revis doesn't win games, that goes against my memory of Revis.

 

You guys maybe remember his hold outs when we talk about Revis. And I will grant that offseason Revis is a PITA.

 

But make no mistake when he's on the field he wins games. 

 

That's three games in 6 years, each of which I could easily argue with you over if you really wanted.  There is a pretty significant difference between single-handedly winning a game, and making a big play that contributes to part of a win, which just about every schmuck who put on a pair of pads for the Jets in that time period not named Vernon Gholston can be credited with.

 

Again, none of this to say he isn't an exceptional player, it's simply to say that what he, and his position, brings to the table is in no way more than what 3 other starters and a haul of draft picks could unless you'd like to assume they're all going to suck.

[pedro55]

He hasn't made any moves so far that make it look as if he's focused on winning this year. The only mortgage style contract he did was Cromartie's, which says a lot about Revis' future with the Jets. He's very possibly targeted cut players in free agency in an effort to max out on comp picks in 2014.

Idzik already has a pass for this year. As much as you don't seem to believe in long term planning, the Jets brought in a methodical guy precisely to put a long term plan into effect. They tried the seat of your pants operation under Tannenbaum, and it left them with overpaid underachievers and a depth-free roster. This season his hands are tied because of Rex, Sanchez, Harris, Holmes... the moves are minimal because his options are non-existent. Next year is when he'll start being judged on wins and losses.

 

  This theory is just hope.   Because if they wind up 4-12 this year,  fire everybody,  draft a stud QB like the Panther did, and wind up a 6-10, 7-9 kind of team with a decent young QB for a few years...  People would be calling for the guys head.   No GM can go 4-12, 6-10, 7-9, etc etc etc even with a QB who looks like the franchise QB.   Thats the problem with throw away years.   Suddenly that 4-12 looks a lot worse if you dont become a playoff team right away.  

 

 The Panthers are the perfect example. They went 2-14.   Fired John Fox.  Drafted Cam Newton.     He wound up being the ROY.  He was their future franchise QB.     But they still finished 6-10.   Last year Newton had his struggles and so did the Panthers.   They finished 7-9.  An improvement.  But they fired their GM.

Different scenario as he was with them since like 2002 and he had a super bowl team under his belt.  But in 3 seasons the Panthers had 0 winning seasons.

 

Will they this year? Who knows.  Nobody would be surprised to see them 8-8.   So that would be 4 years without a playoff appearance.     

Now lets talk about the Jets.   Even if they wind up with some stud QB after a 2-14 season,  who says that will translate into a winning team?  Going 2-14 your first year as a GM just means you better turn it around quickly or you'll wind up like the Panthers GM. Draft a stud QB, go 7-9 his second season, get fired cause the team was 2-14, 6-10, 7-9 over a three year period.

[slats]

this is New York he will be judged week 1. This idea that Idzik has a free year is a fantasy. There are no free years in this league. 

You're simply wrong.

Idzik is here to clean up Tannenbaum's mess. There are no moves he can make this year to dramatically improve the team, and the owner knows it. The money isn't there, and Tannenbaum's gone because Woody didn't want any more bad money pushed into future years. This year has to play out to get those bad contracts off the books. They'll talk about winning, and Rex will try to win enough to keep his job of get another head coaching gig, but the brass has already pretty much written this season off.

Idzik can get a couple building blocks in place with this years draft, but next year is when his boss will expect to start seeing the results on the field.

[T0mShane]

this is New York he will be judged week 1. This idea that Idzik has a free year is a fantasy. There are no free years in this league.

The Jets can go 0-16 next year and exactly zero people will blame Idzik for it.

[Gastineau Lives]

This is avoiding the argument and attacking the source. I could reply with attacks on you. BUt that would require me remembering the things you said. I take it as a compliment that you are such a big fan of my posts. 

That was an attack? Next thing you're going to be hiring Jeff Garcia as a consultant.

[pedro55]

  The problem with throw away seasons is it gets you fired quicker if you don't turn it around quick. 

What would the scenario be if Manning stayed in the game and the Colts finished undefeated that season?  

Jets wind up 8-8 or 7-9 and don't make the playoffs.  No run.  No great Rex conversations. Hell, the Jets probably aren't even on reality tv that summer.

And who knows if 2010 winds up being as great as it was.   Maybe, maybe not.  

 

 People throw out the first two seasons as great because of thef AFC Championship game theory.  Except the first season they could have easily been 8-8, but got lucky because the Colts decided to sit their HOF QB the entire second half.  Kind of changes the game when peyton manning isn't playing.   

 

 But thats the problem with discounting seasons.   So Idzik gets a pass if they wind up 2-14.  According to who?  If the Jets have a terrible draft this year and the Jets finish 2-14, what makes anybody think they'll be able to turn it around?      I'd rather the Jets finish 7-9 and have a couple of potential pro bowl draft picks.     Going 2-14 just means they probably didn't draft well this year which means they might not draft well next year either.

[pedro55]

You're simply wrong.

Idzik is here to clean up Tannenbaum's mess. There are no moves he can make this year to dramatically improve the team, and the owner knows it. The money isn't there, and Tannenbaum's gone because Woody didn't want any more bad money pushed into future years. This year has to play out to get those bad contracts off the books. They'll talk about winning, and Rex will try to win enough to keep his job of get another head coaching gig, but the brass has already pretty much written this season off.

Idzik can get a couple building blocks in place with this years draft, but next year is when his boss will expect to start seeing the results on the field.

 

  Draft well.  That's how you improve the team.   If Idzik has a terrible Draft,  what would make anybody think he knows how to turn the team around ?

It's one thing to gut a team, it's another to build a winner.     And it's the NFL.  Nobody gets a pass for a 2-14 season.   And what happens if there are no stud QBs in the draft the for the Jets next year?   Or what happens if they wind up with a coach like Ron Rivera who isn't very good.     

 

  Idzik's job isn't just to gut what was here. It's to build a winner.   There are no throw away seasons in the NFL.   Teams who throw away seasons become like the Raiders.  

[slats]

Now lets talk about the Jets.   Even if they wind up with some stud QB after a 2-14 season,  who says that will translate into a winning team?  Going 2-14 your first year as a GM just means you better turn it around quickly or you'll wind up like the Panthers GM. Draft a stud QB, go 7-9 his second season, get fired cause the team was 2-14, 6-10, 7-9 over a three year period.

A lot depends on Rex and what they do with him.

If Rex stays, the Jets have a solid defense and coach in place, and two years should be enough time to put together a respectable offense. The Jets would've been in the playoffs the last two years with an average QB. If they trash this year and draft a stud QB next year, I'd expect a quick turnaround.

If they fire Rex, then Idzik in reality probably buys himself another free pass while that coach starts to put a team together in his image.

But no one but Bit and you are talking about multiple down years. That's obviously not acceptable. One scheduled down year to swallow a few bad contracts and come back strong the following year? That's perfectly acceptable.

[RSJ]

you only get a couple get of jail free cards,  doubt Idzik wants to use it this year. You are right he wouldn't get fired but there's only so many times you can pass the buck.

 

I believe the best thing for the Jets is to win games. Crazy, i know.  but you don't have to believe me... this is why Idzik wants 2013 picks not 2014 picks. Idzik doesn't think like this board, that he's gonna have until the end of time to turn the Jets around and a failure of a season in 2013 is a-ok. Every failure is one step closer to pink slip. 

 

Yeah I agree - but its not like Idzik dumped Revis for nothing, signed DRC and other stop gap veteran players. I feel like he is rebuilding a foundation rather than flipping veterans over from year to year like Tannenbaum did. It may take some time - but this team is not getting fully rebuilt in a year, its going to take 2 to 3 years and thats IF you even have the right head coach here right now. If not - it could take even longer.

[bitonti]

  I guess you forgot that the Jets finished 4-12, 9-7, 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 6-10 in his career.    So really, the Jets had one great season, a couple of great playoff runs and a .500 team the rest of the guys career.  As great as Revis is,  he doesn't win the Jets games.  The teams record over his career kind of tells you that.  

 

another way to read that is the only losing seasons occurred when he was a rookie or when he was hurt.

[SenorGato]

did you see the special on Revis last night on NFL network? I missed it but it looked like he was doing a hell of a lot more on the previews.

Stem cells biiiiiitches

[slats]

  Draft well.  That's how you improve the team.   If Idzik has a terrible Draft,  what would make anybody think he knows how to turn the team around ?

It's one thing to gut a team, it's another to build a winner.     And it's the NFL.  Nobody gets a pass for a 2-14 season.   And what happens if there are no stud QBs in the draft the for the Jets next year?   Or what happens if they wind up with a coach like Ron Rivera who isn't very good.     

 

  Idzik's job isn't just to gut what was here. It's to build a winner.   There are no throw away seasons in the NFL.   Teams who throw away seasons become like the Raiders.  

Who, besides you, is talking about a 2-14 season? You're quoting my posts talking about 2-14, but I'm not thinking 2-14 at all. I'm thinking a down year in 2013 is anywhere from 5-7 wins. I don't think the offense can be any worse than last year, and the defense should be the same or better - with or without Revis. The schedule looks tougher on paper, though.

They can draft well and not see the results immediately. WRs take time. Maybe they find a QB of the near future in the middle rounds. Lot of variables.

[bitonti]

You're simply wrong.

  the brass has already pretty much written this season off.

 

 

professional sports teams don't write seasons off before they start. 

[Scott Dierking]

I'd bet 50 bucks that the 2013 Jets with Revis go .500. 

Done. If Revis remains with the Jets, we can both send our money to Smizzy to hold.

[slats]

professional sports teams don't write seasons off before they start. 

Professionals understand what to reasonably expect in any given year.

[Scott Dierking]

another way to read that is the only losing seasons occurred when he was a rookie or when he was hurt.

I could say that the only losing seasons the Jets have had with Sanchez is when he had Sparano as his OC.

 

That is silly thinking

[bitonti]

Done. If Revis remains with the Jets, we can both send our money to Smizzy to hold.

 

ha ha smizzy reference. 

[bitonti]

Professionals understand what to reasonably expect in any given year.

 

There's nothing reasonable about playing NFL football. It's not a profession that reasonable people take up. Reasonable people become accountants. 

[Damaged89]

There's nothing reasonable about playing NFL football. It's not a profession that reasonable people take up. Reasonable people become accountants. 

 

 

I like this line of thinking.  More NFL general managers should act totally irrationally.  

 

Was it reasonable to draft Mike Nugent in the second round? NO BUT IT WAS AWESOME BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

[Bleedin Green]

another way to read that is the only losing seasons occurred when he was a rookie or when he was hurt.

 

Do you really believe this is an even slightly valid argument?

 

By the same token, I could say the best Jets season of Revis' career was 2010, which saw them go 3-0 without him and rally from a deficit, a deficit which was the fault of Revis, when he was knocked out of another.  I imagine you'd agree that doesn't particularly prove much of anything, right?

 

Come on, Sanchez has less losing season's to his name than Revis, and he's the freakin' QB, does that make him a better player?  Of course not.

[bitonti]

Do you really believe this is an even slightly valid argument?

 

I was responding to a "statistics can mean anything" point with a similar point. 

[Bleedin Green]

I was responding to a "statistics can mean anything" point with a similar point. 

 

Yet you're the one who has repeatedly tried to credit Revis for Jets' wins (most notably the 2 game difference between 2011 and 2012), which is where this all started.

[SenorGato]

Professionals understand what to reasonably expect in any given year....

...still would not write off the year completely.

[Scott Dierking]

...still would not write off the year completely.

It will be a nice year to see what some young and new players can do, as long as Rex does not become stubborn and stay overly loyal based on his player relationships.

[bitonti]

Yet you're the one who has repeatedly tried to credit Revis for Jets' wins (most notably the 2 game difference between 2011 and 2012), which is where this all started.

 

The Best defender in the league helps the team win games. I don't understand why this is so controversial.

[Scott Dierking]

The Best defender in the league helps the team win games. I don't understand why this is so controversial.

Revis has been named defensive player of the year? When did that happen?

[SenorGato]

It will be a nice year to see what some young and new players can do, as long as Rex does not become stubborn and stay overly loyal based on his player relationships.

 

Besides not giving the QB job to McElroy/Tebow (lol to both) "earlier," who got playing time out of loyalty?

[Scott Dierking]

Besides not giving the QB job to McElroy/Tebow (lol to both) "earlier," who got playing time out of loyalty?

Scott, Pace, Smith, Greene, Ducasse.

[SenorGato]

Scott, Pace, Smith, Greene.

 

Scott lost a ton of playing time over the past two years. There was a game this October where he saw 16 snaps total. Scott falling off a cliff during 2011 was not some great secret only Cimini, Mehta, and fans figured out. https://twitter.com/ConorTOrr/status/260734248531681280

 

Pace was probably the best player in the LB group last year. Not saying much, but Rex isn't the guy building the roster. That's a different issue.

 

Smith beat out the likes of rookie Antonio Allen, that guy the Pats picked up, rookie Bush, Dwight Lowery, and other even lesser 3rd safeties throughout the years. He was also drafted 7 years ago.

 

Greene aka the best RB on the roster going into 2012. Powell took 121 carries as a second year player while Greene got enough carries to hit 1,000 yards and land a solid FA contract. Nothing wrong with how they handled him either.

 

You confuse trying to win with what is there with alot of things. It's not as if he was leaving Pace in as some 22 YO beast rots on the bench. Garrett McIntyre and Ricky Sapp, the guys who make up the project/depth OLBs on the roster, combined saw a ton of playing time at OLB.