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Revis trade official - No. 13 overall pick in 2013 and conditional 4th (can upgrade to a 3rd) in 2014


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And Sanchez's best receiver from week 3 on was Jeremy Kerley and his RB was Shonn Greene and he was still only slightly worse than Freeman throwing to Vincent Jackson with Doug Martin running wild. 

 

Thanks for proving my point. Freeman may be better than Sanchez but it ain't by much. 

 

Sanchez sucks, so does Freeman. 

 

What does Sanchez have to do with Tampa?

 

I was responding to the notion that Tampa might not win 3 more games this year.  If Freeman is the same level player as last year, which wasn't exactly great, they could easily improve by 3 games with the players that will be on the field in 2013 that weren't in 2012.  I don't have a hard time believing that could happen.

 

It has nothing to do with Sanchez vs Freeman.  That is an entirely different discussion.

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What does Sanchez have to do with Tampa?

 

I was responding to the notion that Tampa might not win 3 more games this year.  If Freeman is the same level player as last year, which wasn't exactly great, they could easily improve by 3 games with the players that will be on the field in 2013 that weren't in 2012.  I don't have a hard time believing that could happen.

 

It has nothing to do with Sanchez vs Freeman.  That is an entirely different discussion.

 

 

I was actually responding more to Carl using your post. Carl seems to think the addition of Revis is going to morph Josh Freeman into a great QB. 

 

I think his ceiling is ok at best. I was actually using Sanchez to just how unimpressive Freeman really was. 

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Historically, not really.

 

IMO Revis is worth what a top WR is worth.  He makes Calvin Johnson play like Titus Young or Vincent Jackson play like Legedu Naanee and that is worth plenty.  I agree with not breaking the bank for any player, but a CB is worth what a WR is and I might argue that he is worth a little more because IMO inconsistent but occasionally great WR play can win, but inconsistent but occasionally great CB play gives up points. 

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No, he's not. Freeman is way better and he'll prove it this season. If Freeman is our QB in 2010, we win the whole damn thing. Wait and see what a better defense in Tampa will do for that team. Their schedule is fairly favorable too.

 

While I admittedly haven't seen their schedule, it can't be that favorable, just considering their division.  At best, they're still looking at third place in the South barring an injury to Ryan or Brees.

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IMO Revis is worth what a top WR is worth.  He makes Calvin Johnson play like Titus Young or Vincent Jackson play like Legedu Naanee and that is worth plenty.  I agree with not breaking the bank for any player, but a CB is worth what a WR is and I might argue that he is worth a little more because IMO inconsistent but occasionally great WR play can win, but inconsistent but occasionally great CB play gives up points. 

 

Pretty fair argument imo. 

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The Jets essentially got the 1 and 3. Tampa originally didn't want to part with this year's #1, assuming that next year's would be lower. Idzik got value for Revis today rather than in the future. He did well in that respect. My only concern about whether we get the third or fourth next year is if the Bucs pull a fast one and cut and resign Revis with a wink and a nod - similar to how Tannenbaum got robbed when he traded Abraham. But at least the Jets get a minimum of that fourth rounder. 

 

Both Tampa and Revis are gambling here. If Revis isn't Revis anymore, he's not going to see the third year of that contract. Tampa is paying an unprecedented $16M for one year of a CB coming off an ACL. It's crazy. 

 

Having the #13 allows the Jets to comfortably trade out of that one or the #9 they already had much more easily, and potentially pick up a second rounder - or a first next year. 

 

It's the Vilma trade you're thinking of, but I think that's exactly why the parameters in this one were a little different.  Vilma it was if the Saints signed him to a new contract before he hit FA, and instead they handed him a deal 5 seconds into FA.  This one is a matter of if Revis is on the Bucs' roster on the third day of the league year.  That would mean, in order to avoid giving up a one-round higher pick, they would have to cut Revis AND leave him on the FA market for at least one full day.  Who the hell in their right mind would ever trust Revis in that situation?  All it would take is one team to come in and outbid the Bucs and their choices would be to either lose Revis for nothing after one year or have to pay even more money to him than they already were.  All of this to keep a pick from going up one round?  I don't buy it.  Revis is the very last player in the league I would trust in that situation.

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What does Sanchez have to do with Tampa?

 

I was responding to the notion that Tampa might not win 3 more games this year.  If Freeman is the same level player as last year, which wasn't exactly great, they could easily improve by 3 games with the players that will be on the field in 2013 that weren't in 2012.  I don't have a hard time believing that could happen.

 

It has nothing to do with Sanchez vs Freeman.  That is an entirely different discussion.

 

While it's certainly possible, it will still probably be good for no more than third in the division.  The Saints were a complete mess last year with everything they had going on, and they still kicked the living crap out of the Bucs.

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IMO Revis is worth what a top WR is worth.  He makes Calvin Johnson play like Titus Young or Vincent Jackson play like Legedu Naanee and that is worth plenty.  I agree with not breaking the bank for any player, but a CB is worth what a WR is and I might argue that he is worth a little more because IMO inconsistent but occasionally great WR play can win, but inconsistent but occasionally great CB play gives up points. 

 

There is a major flaw with this line of thinking.  For starters, I think it's highly debateable that a WR is worth that kind of money to begin with and even if so, I can't imagine anyone would say it's more than one or two guys in the entire league (CJ and Fitz).  Even then, you are paying a WR to perform at that level for 16 games.  You are paying a CB to defend a WR who is good enough to be paid that much how often, maybe once, twice a season at most?  The rest of the year you're paying your CB that same money to defend against significantly less skilled WRs that could be covered by significantly less skilled CBs.  So like I said, while I'm not even arguing that a WR is worth that much money, it stands to reason that no matter what the number is, a CB still isn't worth as much as a WR simply because his value on a game to game basis is determined by the skill of the player he's defending, which is certainly not the case for a WR.

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There is a major flaw with this line of thinking.  For starters, I think it's highly debateable that a WR is worth that kind of money to begin with and even if so, I can't imagine anyone would say it's more than one or two guys in the entire league (CJ and Fitz).  Even then, you are paying a WR to perform at that level for 16 games.  You are paying a CB to defend a WR who is good enough to be paid that much how often, maybe once, twice a season at most?  The rest of the year you're paying your CB that same money to defend against significantly less skilled WRs that could be covered by significantly less skilled CBs.  So like I said, while I'm not even arguing that a WR is worth that much money, it stands to reason that no matter what the number is, a CB still isn't worth as much as a WR simply because his value on a game to game basis is determined by the skill of the player he's defending, which is certainly not the case for a WR.

 

Your "for starters" argument is irrelevant because I didn't say anybody was worth $16M.  I said CB value should equate to WR value. Your point about the level of WR talent the CB faces is valid, but as I said before, inconsistent WR play can still result in TDs.  Think Ted Ginn Jr or Hester.  Inconsistent CB play also results in TDs.  A CB has to be on his game EVERY play or even the Mario Manninghams and Jacoby Jones of the league will put points up.  

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Blaming Tanny or Idzik or anybody else besides Darrelle Revis isn't fair. Darrelle Revis was and is a complete and total scumbag. He's a greedy douchebag who has one and only one priority, which is top dollar. 

 

A guy wanting to be paid money he knows he can get does not a scumbag make.

 

He's greedy, and motivated by money. But so are 95% of the players in the league, just that very few are good enough to push the salaries up like he can.

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Revis, when healthy, neutralizes a great WR not a great QB.

 

That has a lot of value, but not $16M per year every year value.

 

yeah but when you neutralize a great WR  playing with a great QB that QB's numbers drop way down. When we beat the Colts and the Pats in 2010 both Brady and Manning had particularly bad games Revis shut down the number one target basically taking away half the field . Thats not good for any QB. No QB wants their safety net neutralized. 

 

All that being said I still think this was the right move for the circumstance we were in. In a perfect world a lot of the players on this roster are paid what they deserve and we would probably been able to keep Revis but more along the lines of 13 mil not 16

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A guy wanting to be paid money he knows he can get does not a scumbag make.

He's greedy, and motivated by money. But so are 95% of the players in the league, just that very few are good enough to push the salaries up like he can.

Your argument is certainly a fair one...but with the state of the Jets the picks made more sense.

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A guy wanting to be paid money he knows he can get does not a scumbag make.

 

He's greedy, and motivated by money. But so are 95% of the players in the league, just that very few are good enough to push the salaries up like he can.

 

I agree 100%. I don't begrudge Revis at all for trying to squeeze every penny out of his ability. 

 

I also don't blame the Jets a bit for not paying him. 

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yeah but when you neutralize a great WR  playing with a great QB that QB's numbers drop way down. When we beat the Colts and the Pats in 2010 both Brady and Manning had particularly bad games Revis shut down the number one target basically taking away half the field . Thats not good for any QB. No QB wants their safety net neutralized. 

 

All that being said I still think this was the right move for the circumstance we were in. In a perfect world a lot of the players on this roster are paid what they deserve and we would probably been able to keep Revis but more along the lines of 13 mil not 16

 

While Revis certainly contributed to the defensive performances in those games, you need only to look one season prior at the Jets' playoff game against that very same Colts team to see it takes a lot more than just Revis to shut down an opposing QB.  Revis was at his very best in 2009, but with the other CBs on the roster dropping like flies, Manning still tore the secondary apart that day and it didn't matter one bit how well Revis played.

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I agree 100%. I don't begrudge Revis at all for trying to squeeze every penny out of his ability. 

 

I also don't blame the Jets a bit for not paying him. 

 

I don't begrudge that either. The debate starts where the mendoza line or threshold ended. I think he obviously pushed it to a point where his demands became unreasonable, to a point where he had to be traded. 

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While Revis certainly contributed to the defensive performances in those games, you need only to look one season prior at the Jets' playoff game against that very same Colts team to see it takes a lot more than just Revis to shut down an opposing QB.  Revis was at his very best in 2009, but with the other CBs on the roster dropping like flies, Manning still tore the secondary apart that day and it didn't matter one bit how well Revis played.

 

well yeah we had 2 injured CB's in that game Strickland who was playing very well and another whose name I cant recall was in and out of the game . If we had Cro maybe that game turns out a hell of a lot different . Because when we were up 17 to 6 one big play on defense easily could have turned that game into a blow out Instead we let Manning tear us up pretty good just staying away from Revis. Its all speculative but having Cro the year after seemed to make a big difference especially when we played the steelers and they refused to throw the ball early while running it down our throats,

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A guy wanting to be paid money he knows he can get does not a scumbag make.

 

He's greedy, and motivated by money. But so are 95% of the players in the league, just that very few are good enough to push the salaries up like he can.

 

 

I agree 100%. I don't begrudge Revis at all for trying to squeeze every penny out of his ability. 

 

I also don't blame the Jets a bit for not paying him. 

 

 

JJ Watt, the best defensive player in the NFL, will be making $1.3M this year.

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yeah but when you neutralize a great WR  playing with a great QB that QB's numbers drop way down. When we beat the Colts and the Pats in 2010 both Brady and Manning had particularly bad games Revis shut down the number one target basically taking away half the field . Thats not good for any QB. No QB wants their safety net neutralized. 

 

All that being said I still think this was the right move for the circumstance we were in. In a perfect world a lot of the players on this roster are paid what they deserve and we would probably been able to keep Revis but more along the lines of 13 mil not 16

 

Manning beat us in the AFCCG by passing for almost 400 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks.

 

When we beat him a year later it was because his dufus HC gave us a free timeout.  Even Manning couldn't believe it.

 

In both games - one a win, and one a loss - Manning had far better games than he usually has in the postseason.  Two games, 600 yards, 4 TDs, 0 interceptions.  And with the game on the line, in the 2 minute drill, Manning marched right down the field on us in 1 minute like we weren't even there, with Revis totally shutting down Reggie Wayne.

 

And I agree if Revis could be had for reasonable dollars he would still be here.  That is and was not the case.  We did the right thing; you can't have a CB hit the cap at $19M/year every year for the next 4 years.

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JJ Watt, the best defensive player in the NFL, will be making $1.3M this year.

 

 

And he's most certainly going to be asking for Revis money as soon as he gets into his contract year.  And if he doesn't get it from the Texans he'll walk out the door.  Exactly like Revis was threatening to do.

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Manning beat us in the AFCCG by passing for almost 400 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks.

 

When we beat him a year later it was because his dufus HC gave us a free timeout.  Even Manning couldn't believe it.

 

In both games - one a win, and one a loss - Manning had far better games than he usually has in the postseason.  Two games, 600 yards, 4 TDs, 0 interceptions.  And with the game on the line, in the 2 minute drill, Manning marched right down the field on us in 1 minute like we weren't even there, with Revis totally shutting down Reggie Wayne.

 

And I agree if Revis could be had for reasonable dollars he would still be here.  That is and was not the case.  We did the right thing; you can't have a CB hit the cap at $19M/year every year for the next 4 years.

 

 

no revis and we still managed to have a top tier defense last year that didnt allow even one 100-yard receiver. 16 mil/year???.....**** that sh*t

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And he's most certainly going to be asking for Revis money as soon as he gets into his contract year.  And if he doesn't get it from the Texans he'll walk out the door.  Exactly like Revis was threatening to do.

 

Wait!? Are you trying to say he should WAIT for his contract to end??? Why should he actually wait for his contract to end? That's stupid.

 

#revis

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Wait!? Are you trying to say he should WAIT for his contract to end??? Why should he actually wait for his contract to end? That's stupid.

 

#revis

 

 

I dunno.  I never took the holdout thing personally.  I didn't really care as long as he was awesome on the field.

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IMO Revis is worth what a top WR is worth. He makes Calvin Johnson play like Titus Young or Vincent Jackson play like Legedu Naanee and that is worth plenty. I agree with not breaking the bank for any player, but a CB is worth what a WR is and I might argue that he is worth a little more because IMO inconsistent but occasionally great WR play can win, but inconsistent but occasionally great CB play gives up points.

Neither are worth "breaking the bank for", the data proves this. Balanced teams with top flight QBs is the only formula that's held up.

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While I admittedly haven't seen their schedule, it can't be that favorable, just considering their division. At best, they're still looking at third place in the South barring an injury to Ryan or Brees.

They play: Jets, pats, Cards, Eagles, Seattle, Miami, Detroit, Buffalo, San Fran, St. Louis. Have to go to NE and Seattle, but play San Fran at home. Rest of those games should be cake.

And what has New Orleans done this offseason to make people think they've gotten better? Sean Payton and Rob Ryan don't automatically make that defense not terrible.

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A guy wanting to be paid money he knows he can get does not a scumbag make.

He's greedy, and motivated by money. But so are 95% of the players in the league, just that very few are good enough to push the salaries up like he can.

True, but when you act in this manner, you do lose the right to describe anyone not willing to me your demands as "not committed to winning", as the Revis camp did. It's there that "scumbag" becomes more relevant.

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well yeah we had 2 injured CB's in that game Strickland who was playing very well and another whose name I cant recall was in and out of the game . If we had Cro maybe that game turns out a hell of a lot different . Because when we were up 17 to 6 one big play on defense easily could have turned that game into a blow out Instead we let Manning tear us up pretty good just staying away from Revis. Its all speculative but having Cro the year after seemed to make a big difference especially when we played the steelers and they refused to throw the ball early while running it down our throats,

 

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you, having Cro was a huge difference maker against the Colts compared to 2009 when we had Lito on the bench, and Strickland and Lowery (I believe) getting hurt.  That's the point though, while that was obviously some bad luck there too, it points out the fact that you can't really heap all of the credit onto Revis for being able to shut down Manning a year later, since he wasn't previously able to do it without enough other help.  If anything, it gives that much more credence to the argument that as great as he may be, his value is limited by the fact that he can simply be avoided by a quality QB.  There's a whole lot of questions that come into play when you need another Top 10 CB to be your #2 in order to actually get the value that allegedly comes with Revis.

 

I'm not even really trying to argue with you here, as I know you aren't against the move the Jets' made, but it's more simply saying that I think it's a bit much to even try to credit him that much for overall defensive performances like that, because the evidence would seem to suggest it takes a lot more than just him to accomplish that.

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And he's most certainly going to be asking for Revis money as soon as he gets into his contract year.  And if he doesn't get it from the Texans he'll walk out the door.  Exactly like Revis was threatening to do.

 

Except that as soon as Revis had his first All-Pro year, he didn't threaten to walk out when his contract was up, he actually refused to play for the Jets even while still under contract, the same contract he held out for in the first place.  There's no evidence to suggest JJ Watt is going to do that and that's despite the fact that he actually picked up the DPOY last year on top of that, something Revis has never done.

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