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Revis trade official - No. 13 overall pick in 2013 and conditional 4th (can upgrade to a 3rd) in 2014


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Just because somebody lowballs you to begin with and you get something better than that does not make it a good deal.

 

I was not happy yesterday but reading Peter King's account of what happened on the Bucs end makes me more sure that the JETS did not get the best deal. First of all The Bucs drew a line in sand with two picks and gave the deadline to the JETS to get a deal done. These are high pressure tactics used in negotiations from car salesman to billion dollar deals. Usually these pressure tactics are used to bluff to see if the other sides bites the bait and caves in. And the compensation offered in such situations by the entity that is using the high pressure tactics is lot less to less than they have internally agreed to offer.

 

Why the deadline ? There are deals made even right before or around the start of a draft. Given that this deal happened from start to finsih in less than 8 hours starting with Revis hoping to Tampa till him signing the deal with the physical included this deal could have been done on Thursday morning and still signed before the draft.  So why the artificial deadline ? It was just pressure from the Bucs. When you use this tactic you know what you are offering is a bargain to you and there is more room to give beyond that. AND the fact that this the deal got done within exactly those parameters means the JETS blinked and did not get the best deal the Bucs could offer.

 

Now i will not explain beyond this so if you still want to delude yourself into thinking that this the best deal the JETS got and Idzik is the master negotiator go ahead. I am not going argue it any further.

 

Bigger picture this also sends a message to the rest of the league and  agents.That message is "Meet the new GM, same as the old GM". Now the league knows Idzik will blink. So it will make it that much difficult for Idzik to get optimal value of anything in any trade. And then we wonder why the JETS can never catch a break or ever get the upper hand. This is why because you cave and you do not have great negotiators. Its absolutely disgusting to see this happen as a JETS fan!

 

There have been reports for weeks of the Bucs setting deadlines that the Jets blatantly ignored.  Amazing how that doesn't mean anything to you, huh?  We heard over and over again how the Bucs were going to walk away from the deal if the Jets didn't get things moving and yet week after week went by and the Jets kept on waiting, because that's what they wanted to do, and the Bucs waited too.  Oh yes, but because the deal happened long after the Bucs wanted it to and many weeks after they started making threats, but a whole 4 days before the last possible time it could have, it means the Jets caved to the Bucs.  That is really what you're trying to say?  You realize that there is absolutely nothing that supports this fabricated argument of yours, right?  Literally nothing.

 

You're convincing yourself of utter nonsense simply because you want something to justify your position.  You didn't come to a conclusion based on any evidence, you completely fabricated a conclusion and then have desperately searched for anything you could transform into something you thought would be some sort of excuse for you having your position.

Again, the bottom line which you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge is that the final outcome was a 5th round pick less than the Jets initial asking price.  Can you provide even one shred of a slightly legitimate argument that supports that reality somehow being this massive issue that you're throwing your little fit about?  Your position has literally NO merit to it whatsoever, and that's only further proven by the fact that even amongst all of those other people who are criticizing the Jets for the deal, there isn't a single other person out there I have seen making anything close to this asinine argument.  Try to cite Peter King all you want, but his article didn't say anything close to this nonsense you're spewing.  Convince yourself that you know so much more than everyone else as much as you like, but every shred of evidence out there still says that you're absolutely, unequivocally, indisputably wrong.

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There have been reports for weeks of the Bucs setting deadlines that the Jets blatantly ignored.  Amazing how that doesn't mean anything to you, huh?  We heard over and over again how the Bucs were going to walk away from the deal if the Jets didn't get things moving and yet week after week went by and the Jets kept on waiting, because that's what they wanted to do, and the Bucs waited too.  Oh yes, but because the deal happened long after the Bucs wanted it to and many weeks after they started making threats, but a whole 4 days before the last possible time it could have, it means the Jets caved to the Bucs.  That is really what you're trying to say?  You realize that there is absolutely nothing that supports this fabricated argument of yours, right?  Literally nothing.

 

You're convincing yourself of utter nonsense simply because you want something to justify your position.  You didn't come to a conclusion based on any evidence, you completely fabricated a conclusion and then have desperately searched for anything you could transform into something you thought would be some sort of excuse for you having your position.

Again, the bottom line which you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge is that the final outcome was a 5th round pick less than the Jets initial asking price.  Can you provide even one shred of a slightly legitimate argument that supports that reality somehow being this massive issue that you're throwing your little fit about?  Your position has literally NO merit to it whatsoever, and that's only further proven by the fact that even amongst all of those other people who are criticizing the Jets for the deal, there isn't a single other person out there I have seen making anything close to this asinine argument.  Try to cite Peter King all you want, but his article didn't say anything close to this nonsense you're spewing.  Convince yourself that you know so much more than everyone else as much as you like, but every shred of evidence out there still says that you're absolutely, unequivocally, indisputably wrong.

 

Wow...just wow. If knowing JETS got the best deal helps you sleep at night, go ahead.. I put forward a logical explaination and if its beyond you than so be it. Let me not stop you. I do not like to argue for the sake of arguing

 

But since you think evidence can be found on such things how about you provide evidence of why this is the best deal. If you have it let me know.

Edited by JetsFanInDenver
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The way we're doing the valuation is all wrong. A player isn't talent + position = value. It's talent + position + access = value.

 

For example, you're promoted as the GM of the Jets today. You get to have Joe Flacco if you want, the only thing is: you're going to have to pay him an additional $0.5 million per year over the course of his contract when compared to the current contract he has with the Ravens. Do you take him? Almost all of us would say yes and be ecstatic about it. Now repeat that with every franchise-level QB. Matt Ryan. Eli Manning. Peyton Manning. Stop me when you hear someone whose contract you wouldn't beat.

 

We saved $16m (non-guaranteed), great. But what are we going to do with that $$$?

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The way we're doing the valuation is all wrong. A player isn't talent + position = value. It's talent + position + access = value.

 

For example, you're promoted as the GM of the Jets today. You get to have Joe Flacco if you want, the only thing is: you're going to have to pay him an additional $0.5 million per year over the course of his contract when compared to the current contract he has with the Ravens. Do you take him? Almost all of us would say yes and be ecstatic about it. Now repeat that with every franchise-level QB. Matt Ryan. Eli Manning. Peyton Manning. Stop me when you hear someone whose contract you wouldn't beat.

 

We saved $16m (non-guaranteed), great. But what are we going to do with that $$$?

 

Use it wisely when the situation presents itself.

 

Spending it just because you have the space right now and the extra cash is burning a hole in your pocket is how a NY team ends up giving Amar'e Stoudemire a max contract.  Then when you need the space for Chris Paul it isn't there anymore.

 

Start building through the draft and fill in the missing pieces through free agency, not the other way around.  Doing the latter forces a team to reach for need in the draft and you end up doing dumb sh*t like using 2nd round picks on major reaches Victor Hobson or Vladimir Ducasse or a f*cking kicker.  And the times it doesn't force you to reach it forces you to trade up because you just "must" have this one player you've become infatuated with to fill your one gaping hole.  Having invested so much in high priced veterans creates a sense of urgency due to a finite window of opportunity before the veterans get too expensive or too old.

 

Build through the draft, getting the BPA instead of self-imposed holes to fill, and then go shopping.  The good news is then when you do go shopping for those free agents you'll have plenty to spend and can spread it around so you have a complete team.

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Use it wisely when the situation presents itself.

 

Spending it just because you have the space right now and the extra cash is burning a hole in your pocket is how a NY team ends up giving Amar'e Stoudemire a max contract.  Then when you need the space for Chris Paul it isn't there anymore.

 

Start building through the draft and fill in the missing pieces through free agency, not the other way around.  Doing the latter forces a team to reach for need in the draft and you end up doing dumb sh*t like using 2nd round picks on major reaches Victor Hobson or Vladimir Ducasse or a f*cking kicker.  And the times it doesn't force you to reach it forces you to trade up because you just "must" have this one player you've become infatuated with to fill your one gaping hole.  Having invested so much in high priced veterans creates a sense of urgency due to a finite window of opportunity before the veterans get too expensive or too old.

 

Build through the draft, getting the BPA instead of self-imposed holes to fill, and then go shopping.  The good news is then when you do go shopping for those free agents you'll have plenty to spend and can spread it around so you have a complete team.

Great now the Jets are functioning like the Mets... FML

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Wow...just wow. If knowing JETS got the best deal helps you sleep at night, go ahead.. I put forward a logical explaination and if its beyond you than so be it. Let me not stop you. I do not like to argue for the sake of arguing

 

But since you think evidence can be found on such things how about you provide evidence of why this is the best deal. If you have it let me know.

 

No you didn't.  There is absolutely no logic associated with your explanation.  It's fabricated argument with absolutely nothing to support it, that you've made in order to justify your fit, nothing more.

 

You are the one who is making the baseless unfounded claim, so the burden of proof is on you, and you have provided a grand total of zero.  But you know what, I'll still go ahead and show you why you're wrong, as if it wasn't already obvious enough.  You want evidence that it was the best deal, or at the very least immeasurably close it?  How about the fact that what the Jets got in return for Revis is more than what at least 30 NFL teams felt he was worth?  That's not even up for debate, it is a proven fact.  No other team in the league was willing to even make an offer to the Jets, even back when the Jets completely balked at Tampa's initial offer of a 2nd and 4th.  Even still, the Jets came out way ahead of that including picks that were allegedly never going to be on the table.  The Jets held the Bucs over the coals for nearly two months in these negotiations while the Bucs threw a fit, but we're supposed to believe there was going to be some massive change in their offer over the course of another 4 days all because why... you have completely made up this stance that they would?  The bottom line is really rather simple, every piece of information out there contradicts your stance.  It doesn't mean you have to like the deal the Jets made, it simply means that nobody is going to buy into your completely fabricated tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

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The way we're doing the valuation is all wrong. A player isn't talent + position = value. It's talent + position + access = value.

 

For example, you're promoted as the GM of the Jets today. You get to have Joe Flacco if you want, the only thing is: you're going to have to pay him an additional $0.5 million per year over the course of his contract when compared to the current contract he has with the Ravens. Do you take him? Almost all of us would say yes and be ecstatic about it. Now repeat that with every franchise-level QB. Matt Ryan. Eli Manning. Peyton Manning. Stop me when you hear someone whose contract you wouldn't beat.

 

We saved $16m (non-guaranteed), great. But what are we going to do with that $$$?

 

Is this what happens when you post while sleep-walking? 

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That's one, that I disagree with, anyway, but you said many.

Many teams would have taken Eli. Many > 1. Also, the Chargers knew this going in, so clearly they didn't think it was such a bad situation, or they could and would have, you know, never made the pick.

Oh, and literally Eli's last play before the trade wasn't involving a cart.

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Many teams would have taken Eli. Many > 1. Also, the Chargers knew this going in, so clearly they didn't think it was such a bad situation, or they could and would have, you know, never made the pick.

Oh, and literally Eli's last play before the trade wasn't involving a cart.

 

So you're saying JetsFaninDenver's lone example of "many", that he's apparently waiting on a book deal to reveal, is spot on?

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Who knows with a smart, ballsy negotiator we might have got better than a 5th round pick. To me and a lot of people the 1st, 34d and 5th was not enough compensation to begin with.

 

I missed the last part. Where did you ask. Top of my head, look at the Chargers trade with Giants where Rivers and Manning were exchanged. Mannig did not want to play in San Diego. And yet the Chargers never blinked and extracted good compensation for that deal. This deal happened after the draft had started. Chargers still picked Manning and Giants picked Rivers. At that point the Giants caved and gave up a quite a few picks, Its another thing they could not get a coach who could get that team to the promised land inspite of having loaded teams that were dominant in the regular season.

 

The Giants won the Super Bowl a few years after but they paid the price for getting Manning!

 

And at that point Manning had not even steeped on the field. And he sure as hell was not labeled as a potential HOFer!

 

This is totally what did not happen with SD and the Giants.  

 

Smith called Accorsi, not the other way around.  Accorsi thought he was going to trade down with 30 seconds left for his pick, gain an extra 2nd rounder for trading down, and draft Roethlisberger at #7.  He held off on trading down in case SD called him up to offer Eli, since he really wanted him and didn't want SD trading with Cleveland if he moved down to #7.  Smith called him while the Giants were on the clock and wanted Osi to go along with Rivers for Eli, which Accorsi turned down.  Knowing they were going to get a deal done, Accorsi then selected Rivers & ultimately they settled on Rivers + Giants' 3rd pick that year + Giants' 1st & 5th picks next year for Eli.

 

So not only didn't the Giants approach San Diego, but also the Giants picked Rivers AFTER AJ Smith called Accorsi.  

 

You are 100% wrong.  Again.

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Just because somebody lowballs you to begin with and you get something better than that does not make it a good deal.

 

I was not happy yesterday but reading Peter King's account of what happened on the Bucs end makes me more sure that the JETS did not get the best deal. First of all The Bucs drew a line in sand with two picks and gave the deadline to the JETS to get a deal done. These are high pressure tactics used in negotiations from car salesman to billion dollar deals. Usually these pressure tactics are used to bluff to see if the other sides bites the bait and caves in. And the compensation offered in such situations by the entity that is using the high pressure tactics is lot less to less than they have internally agreed to offer.

 

Why the deadline ? There are deals made even right before or around the start of a draft. Given that this deal happened from start to finsih in less than 8 hours starting with Revis hoping to Tampa till him signing the deal with the physical included this deal could have been done on Thursday morning and still signed before the draft.  So why the artificial deadline ? It was just pressure from the Bucs. When you use this tactic you know what you are offering is a bargain to you and there is more room to give beyond that. AND the fact that this the deal got done within exactly those parameters means the JETS blinked and did not get the best deal the Bucs could offer.

 

Now i will not explain beyond this so if you still want to delude yourself into thinking that this the best deal the JETS got and Idzik is the master negotiator go ahead. I am not going argue it any further.

 

Bigger picture this also sends a message to the rest of the league and  agents.That message is "Meet the new GM, same as the old GM". Now the league knows Idzik will blink. So it will make it that much difficult for Idzik to get optimal value of anything in any trade. And then we wonder why the JETS can never catch a break or ever get the upper hand. This is why because you cave and you do not have great negotiators. Its absolutely disgusting to see this happen as a JETS fan!

 

Why the deadline?  Because if a team is going to trade a 1 and pay a guy 16M a year, that comes with significant planning involving the rest of the roster and the rest of the offseason.  At a certain point, Tampa needed to prepare for life without Revis, which likely would mean making roster moves including adding a CB.

 

Everyone else has pretty much obliterated the rest of your arguments, so I won't go into much more detail except to say that another flaw that hasn't been pointed out is that your entire argument seems to be based on timing of the deal, not compensation.  Had the Jets waited longer, they could have gotten more, but Idzik "blinked" first.  Well, your exact argument could be made if the Jets got 4 first round picks instead of what they got.  If only he waited a little longer, he could have gotten 5.  Literally nothing you put forth changes, since it's all based on the fact that you think the Jets should have waited longer to make the deal for more compensation.

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No you didn't.  There is absolutely no logic associated with your explanation.  It's fabricated argument with absolutely nothing to support it, that you've made in order to justify your fit, nothing more.

 

You are the one who is making the baseless unfounded claim, so the burden of proof is on you, and you have provided a grand total of zero.  But you know what, I'll still go ahead and show you why you're wrong, as if it wasn't already obvious enough.  You want evidence that it was the best deal, or at the very least immeasurably close it?  How about the fact that what the Jets got in return for Revis is more than what at least 30 NFL teams felt he was worth?  That's not even up for debate, it is a proven fact.  No other team in the league was willing to even make an offer to the Jets, even back when the Jets completely balked at Tampa's initial offer of a 2nd and 4th.  Even still, the Jets came out way ahead of that including picks that were allegedly never going to be on the table.  The Jets held the Bucs over the coals for nearly two months in these negotiations while the Bucs threw a fit, but we're supposed to believe there was going to be some massive change in their offer over the course of another 4 days all because why... you have completely made up this stance that they would?  The bottom line is really rather simple, every piece of information out there contradicts your stance.  It doesn't mean you have to like the deal the Jets made, it simply means that nobody is going to buy into your completely fabricated tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

 

Promoting your opinions as facts is not evidence. Let me know when you have something concrete!

 

Anyone with any knowledge of negotiations will let you know its alway the last hours that are crucial. 4 days is huge amount of time.

Edited by JetsFanInDenver
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Why the deadline?  Because if a team is going to trade a 1 and pay a guy 16M a year, that comes with significant planning involving the rest of the roster and the rest of the offseason.  At a certain point, Tampa needed to prepare for life without Revis, which likely would mean making roster moves including adding a CB.

 

Everyone else has pretty much obliterated the rest of your arguments, so I won't go into much more detail except to say that another flaw that hasn't been pointed out is that your entire argument seems to be based on timing of the deal, not compensation.  Had the Jets waited longer, they could have gotten more, but Idzik "blinked" first.  Well, your exact argument could be made if the Jets got 4 first round picks instead of what they got.  If only he waited a little longer, he could have gotten 5.  Literally nothing you put forth changes, since it's all based on the fact that you think the Jets should have waited longer to make the deal for more compensation.

 

That's such a stretch. You mean to say if the JETS offered Revis on Wednesday the Bucs would have say no...hey we have roster moves to make.Riduculous.

 

There is not much happening between now and the draft. Period,

 

No they have not obliterated anything. Just because there is a numbers in the chorus does not make it right.

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This is totally what did not happen with SD and the Giants.  

 

Smith called Accorsi, not the other way around.  Accorsi thought he was going to trade down with 30 seconds left for his pick, gain an extra 2nd rounder for trading down, and draft Roethlisberger at #7.  He held off on trading down in case SD called him up to offer Eli, since he really wanted him and didn't want SD trading with Cleveland if he moved down to #7.  Smith called him while the Giants were on the clock and wanted Osi to go along with Rivers for Eli, which Accorsi turned down.  Knowing they were going to get a deal done, Accorsi then selected Rivers & ultimately they settled on Rivers + Giants' 3rd pick that year + Giants' 1st & 5th picks next year for Eli.

 

So not only didn't the Giants approach San Diego, but also the Giants picked Rivers AFTER AJ Smith called Accorsi.  

 

You are 100% wrong.  Again.

 

Again ? Just repeating it does not make it true!

 

If you say so. That was an example. If you are missing the point so be it. Its not like they were not negotiating for days in advance and held on to their positions till the last minute. If what you say really happened then the Giants were fools to give up 3 picks!

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The only thing that shows me is that the new GM doesn't give a crap about what Peter King reports. That alone is a refreshing change. 

 

And if we're to believe the article word for word (and I don't), the only thing the Jets missed out on was a 5th round pick. The fact that you're going on and on about how they got fleeced over a 5th round pick is pretty silly. 

 

And I'm still waiting for the stories about all the teams that were in more difficult situations than the Jets were with Revis, his ACL, his contract demands, and their single suitor, and how they managed to do so much better. I expect that to be good reading. 

It's been asked  few times in this thread; name the team that made a better trade in a comparable situation. And these isn't anyone. In fact most of those trades of a top ick plus for one guy don't work out for the team getting one guy, Think of Ricky Williams for the other team's whole draft, or Heschel Walker for a pile of picks. And then factor is we had a corner demanding QB money coming off ACL surgery.

 

Futher the pressure to make the trade wasn't only on the Jets.  if you're the Bucs if you don't make the deal you have to explain you your fanbase what you're going to do with the $16 million you would not otherwise spend on Revis if you don't make the trade. One GM is blabbing to noted Coffeesaurus/Favre Fanboy Peter King, the other is saying nothing, Who in this situation is trying to jusiify his actions, and which is comfortable with making the best of a bad situation?

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Again ? Just repeating it does not make it true!

 

If you say so. That was an example. If you are missing the point so be it. Its not like they were not negotiating for days in advance and held on to their positions till the last minute. If what you say really happened then the Giants were fools to give up 3 picks!

 

An example of what?

That's an example the same way a circle is an example of a type of parallelogram.  

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Deflect much ?

 

What you're doing now is deflecting.  What you said was not an example, as I outlined what is known to have happened, and your response is that was an example. Not to mention it is ludicrous to assert that the Giants were the only NFL team interested in Eli Manning on draft day 2004.  It is as much of an example of SD "fleecing" the Giants by holding firm as much as a circle is an example of a type of parallelogram.

 

You have not given an example of someone who got more for his player by playing it cool.  

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Amusing how this "education" in negotiation never touches on the idea that if you only have one bidder at an auction, the price never goes that high.

 

You should have quoted me on this so i could respond!

 

All deals do not have multiple bidders but  that should not prevent you from getting the best deal!

Edited by JetsFanInDenver
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You should have quoted me on this so i could respond!

 

All deals do not have multiple bidders or parties. That should not prevent you from getting the best deal!

 

We got the best deal.  This is the point.

 

Tampa said they would not part with this year's #1 pick.  They caved on that.

Tampa said they would end all negotiations if a deal wasn't finalized a full week before the draft.  They caved on that.

 

Literally your complaint is that we should have gotten an extra 5th rounder.

 

In a negotiation each side makes their offer to the other and their desire from the other party.  They negotiate and agree on something in the middle.  As it's been brought up numerous times, we got almost everything we asked for and Tampa didn't.

 

If Idzik's demands were this year's 1 and 3 and 5 and we got all of that, then frankly it would have meant he demanded too little off the bat.

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What you're doing now is deflecting.  What you said was not an example, as I outlined what is known to have happened, and your response is that was an example. Not to mention it is ludicrous to assert that the Giants were the only NFL team interested in Eli Manning on draft day 2004.  It is as much of an example of SD "fleecing" the Giants by holding firm as much as a circle is an example of a type of parallelogram.

 

You have not given an example of someone who got more for his player by playing it cool.  

 

 

Yes it was not the main topic of discussion it was just an example.

 

Again you are missing the point in your rush to just play attack dog. So the trade did not happen b4 the draft and now you are saying that multiple teams became interested as soon as the draft started. Interesting! Gotta give it to SD for not blinking. All i heard b4 the draft that the Giants were the only team Eli wanted to go to. So they were the only team involved in discussions. Now you are saying multiple teams became interested as the draft went on. Great for SD they got effing 3 picks!

 

Where was i wrong before ? You did not answer that!

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Promoting your opinions as facts is not evidence. Let me know when you have something concrete!

 

Anyone with any knowledge of negotiations will let you know its alway the last hours that are crucial. 4 days is huge amount of time.

 

Hate to break it to you, but you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to support any of your claims whatsoever, so I have no idea what you're going on about.  Yours aren't even opinions, they are just nonsensical fabricated statements that have absolutely no basis in reality.  My citing events that actually occurred are not "opinions".  Yes, it is an indisputable fact that at least 31 NFL teams were not willing to give up more than what the Bucs did to get Revis.  It doesn't matter if you want to pretend it's not true, because it absolutely is.  You know how I know that?  Because it didn't happen!!  Game, set, match - you lose.  Meanwhile, there is not a single shred of evidence that exists anywhere to suggest that the Bucs would have given up any more than they did, and try as you might, you saying it over and over doesn't change that.

 

Your entire premise of 4 more days carrying such great weight is also completely unfounded.  Your ridiculous position inherently means that no negotiations should ever end, because there is always more time for both sides to somehow magically both get a better deal.  Even if we say that the idea of the last hours of negotiations being important has some merit to it, the actual point there is that it is the final hours which lead to a deal finally being struck, whenever that may be, are what's crucial.  It's not simply because more time went by and that's all that matters, it's because that's the time period when whatever final roadblocks that kept the deal from happening prior to then were finally sorted out.  It's not in any way related to whatever random time you want to point to after the fact, because such time will always exist.  You quite clearly have no understanding whatsoever of how negotiations actually work.

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