Revis trade official - No. 13 overall pick in 2013 and conditional 4th (can upgrade to a 3rd) in 2014

[JetsFanInDenver]

We got the best deal.  This is the point.

 

Tampa said they would not part with this year's #1 pick.  They caved on that.

Tampa said they would end all negotiations if a deal wasn't finalized a full week before the draft.  They caved on that.

 

Literally your complaint is that we should have gotten an extra 5th rounder.

 

In a negotiation each side makes their offer to the other and their desire from the other party.  They negotiate and agree on something in the middle.  As it's been brought up numerous times, we got almost everything we asked for and Tampa didn't.

 

If Idzik's demands were this year's 1 and 3 and 5 and we got all of that, then frankly it would have meant he demanded too little off the bat.

 

Does not explain the presence of a high pressure tactics and setting a artificial deadline 4 days b4 the draft.

 

And I am not explaining those points again!

 

UPDATE: I think we should have got much more. Idzik got schooled!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Hate to break it to you, but you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to support any of your claims whatsoever, so I have no idea what you're going on about.  Yours aren't even opinions, they are just nonsensical fabricated statements that have absolutely no basis in reality.  My citing events that actually occurred are not "opinions".  Yes, it is an indisputable fact that at least 31 NFL teams were not willing to give up more than what the Bucs did to get Revis.  It doesn't matter if you want to pretend it's not true, because it absolutely is.  You know how I know that?  Because it didn't happen!!  Game, set, match - you lose.  Meanwhile, there is not a single shred of evidence that exists anywhere to suggest that the Bucs would have given up any more than they did, and try as you might, you saying it over and over doesn't change that.

 

Your entire premise of 4 more days carrying such great weight is also completely unfounded.  Your ridiculous position inherently means that no negotiations should ever end, because there is always more time for both sides to somehow magically both get a better deal.  Even if we say that the idea of the last hours of negotiations being important has some merit to it, the actual point there is that it is the final hours which lead to a deal finally being struck, whenever that may be, are what's crucial.  It's not simply because more time went by and that's all that matters, it's because that's the time period when whatever final roadblocks that kept the deal from happening prior to then were finally sorted out.  It's not in any way related to whatever random time you want to point to after the fact, because such time will always exist.  You quite clearly have no understanding whatsoever of how negotiations actually work.

 

I did not ask for evidence. I stated the below in previous post  which should make it clear:

 

 

JetsFanInDenver, on 22 Apr 2013 - 17:50, said:

Wow...just

wow. If knowing JETS got the best deal helps you sleep at night, go ahead.. I put forward a logical explaination and if its beyond you than so be it. Let me not stop you. I do not like to argue for the sake of arguing

 

But since you think evidence can be found on such things how about you provide evidence of why this is the best deal. If you have it let me know.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Hate to break it to you, but you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to support any of your claims whatsoever, so I have no idea what you're going on about.  Yours aren't even opinions, they are just nonsensical fabricated statements that have absolutely no basis in reality.  My citing events that actually occurred are not "opinions".  Yes, it is an indisputable fact that at least 31 NFL teams were not willing to give up more than what the Bucs did to get Revis.  It doesn't matter if you want to pretend it's not true, because it absolutely is.  You know how I know that?  Because it didn't happen!!  Game, set, match - you lose.  Meanwhile, there is not a single shred of evidence that exists anywhere to suggest that the Bucs would have given up any more than they did, and try as you might, you saying it over and over doesn't change that.

 

Your entire premise of 4 more days carrying such great weight is also completely unfounded.  Your ridiculous position inherently means that no negotiations should ever end, because there is always more time for both sides to somehow magically both get a better deal.  Even if we say that the idea of the last hours of negotiations being important has some merit to it, the actual point there is that it is the final hours which lead to a deal finally being struck, whenever that may be, are what's crucial.  It's not simply because more time went by and that's all that matters, it's because that's the time period when whatever final roadblocks that kept the deal from happening prior to then were finally sorted out.  It's not in any way related to whatever random time you want to point to after the fact, because such time will always exist.  You quite clearly have no understanding whatsoever of how negotiations actually work.

 

I don't want to give you a class on negotiations. If you fail to grasp it or choose to disbelieve it than so be it.

[Pac]

JFD is like Jason Voorhees..  he's getting shot, slashed, run over, demolished, embarrassed, but he refuses to die.

 

JFD I'm going to have to ask you to stand down at once.  This fight is over.

[Bleedin Green]

Does not explain the presence of a high pressure tactics and setting a artificial deadline 4 days b4 the draft.

 

And I am not explaining those points again!

 

UPDATE: I think we should have got much more. Idzik got schooled!

 

When exactly were these "points" so-called points of yours even explained once to begin with?  Keep in mind, you saying the same thing over and over again that has no basis in reality isn't really an explanation.

[Pac]

This beating has passed the 24 hour mark.

[Bugg]

Does not explain the presence of a high pressure tactics and setting a artificial deadline 4 days b4 the draft.

 

And I am not explaining those points again!

 

UPDATE: I think we should have got much more. Idzik got schooled!

Your complete lack of evidence that there was a better deal to be had is not evidence. Saying "Idzik got schooled!" is totally unsupported by any facts. Now Idzik could screw up the picks. But only one of the 2 GMs involved is talking like Chatty Kathy about paying a corner coming off ACL surgery more than most primo QBs.

[Pac]

hurry tag Gato or Bitoni..   you don't need to endure this on your own.

[Bleedin Green]

I don't want to give you a class on negotiations. If you fail to grasp it or choose to disbelieve it than so be it.

 

Please don't, as I've never actually seen a person who has less of an understanding of negotiations than you do.  I mean seriously, you have obviously never been involved in any before and are completely lost in the most basic concepts of how they work.  The entire remainder of that paragraph gave a rather explicit reasoning behind why your bastardization of the point you were desperately trying to link yourself to was completely incorrect.  Again, there is absolutely nothing out there which supports your stance.  The fact that you've refused to acknowledge so many of the arguments made against you, by far more people than just me, proves on it's own that you obviously don't have a leg to stand on.

 

In the end, you're throwing one of the biggest fits in the history of this board over a 5th round pick.  Not only that, this might be the very first time that someone has been unable to find a single person on all of JN to back them up on their asinine position.  Those two things say all that really needs to be said about this.

[ZachEY]

I don't want to give you a class on negotiations. If you fail to grasp it or choose to disbelieve it than so be it.

 

There's little more evident in this thread than that you have no expertise in negotiation.

[Bleedin Green]

hurry tag Gato or Bitoni..   you don't need to endure this on your own.

 

That's what makes this so unbelievably laughable, even neither one of those two have any interest whatsoever in coming anywhere close to supporting this position.  They both clearly hate the fact that this trade was done, and have had their own criticisms of it throughout the past day or two, but even they know the argument being made here is completely unfounded and absurdly ridiculous.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes it was not the main topic of discussion it was just an example.

 

Again you are missing the point in your rush to just play attack dog. So the trade did not happen b4 the draft and now you are saying that multiple teams became interested as soon as the draft started. Interesting! Gotta give it to SD for not blinking. All i heard b4 the draft that the Giants were the only team Eli wanted to go to. So they were the only team involved in discussions. Now you are saying multiple teams became interested as the draft went on. Great for SD they got effing 3 picks!

Where was i wrong before ? You did not answer that!

 

SD is the one who blinked.  They called the Giants, not the other way around.

 

You were wrong about your summary of events regarding Revis.  That the team that got closer to their initial demand was the one that caved and the other one that gave up more than they wanted to (and who backtracked on their publicly self-imposed deadline) was the one who fleeced the other team by giving up less than they were willing to.  Completely backwards and wrong.

 

 

Jets got as much as they possibly could for a player that only 1 team had any interest in trading for.  Frankly I'm still impressed we got a pick in the top half of the first round for him. 

 

1st round pick this year

3rd round pick next year (unless TB cuts him)

from 2014-2016 an extra $19M/year in cap space

and we had less leverage than Tampa did

 

This was such a no-brainer I don't even know what you're bothered about.

[ZachEY]

Essentially, one can never make any deal, ever, as one can never be truly certain they got "the best deal".

[Pac]

alright now you guys are just dancing on his grave.  let him disappear into the shadows with his dignity in tact.

[ZachEY]

[Bleedin Green]

SD is the one who blinked.  They called the Giants, not the other way around.

 

You were wrong about your summary of events regarding Revis.  That the team that got closer to their initial demand was the one that caved and the other one that gave up more than they wanted to (and who backtracked on their publicly self-imposed deadline) was the one who fleeced the other team by giving up less than they were willing to.  Completely backwards and wrong.

 

 

Jets got as much as they possibly could for a player that only 1 team had any interest in trading for.  Frankly I'm still impressed we got a pick in the top half of the first round for him. 

 

1st round pick this year

3rd round pick next year (unless TB cuts him)

from 2014-2016 an extra $19M/year in cap space

and we had less leverage than Tampa did

 

This was such a no-brainer I don't even know what you're bothered about.

 

The almighty 5th round pick damnit!  How can you not see the horror of it all?!?

[JetsFanInDenver]

There's little more evident in this thread than that you have no expertise in negotiation.

 

The last straw. I was wondering when it would appear. Just attack the person if you cannot answer!

[Bleedin Green]

The last straw. I was wondering when it would appear. Just attack the person if you cannot answer!

 

Oh, this is rich.  You've answered nothing in this thread and if that comment qualifies as an attack, then you've attacked countless people in this thread as well.  You have absolutely no room to talk.

[ZachEY]

The last straw. I was wondering when it would appear. Just attack the person if you cannot answer!

 

I feel like I've answered plenty.

 

At this point, you're making arguments that are non-falsifiable based on faulty premises.  There's nothing left to say.

[JetsFanInDenver]

When exactly were these "points" so-called points of yours even explained once to begin with?  Keep in mind, you saying the same thing over and over again that has no basis in reality isn't really an explanation.

 

You can educate yourself or choose to ignore. No problems here.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Your complete lack of evidence that there was a better deal to be had is not evidence. Saying "Idzik got schooled!" is totally unsupported by any facts. Now Idzik could screw up the picks. But only one of the 2 GMs involved is talking like Chatty Kathy about paying a corner coming off ACL surgery more than most primo QBs.

 

Welcome to the chorus.

[JetsFanInDenver]

SD is the one who blinked.  They called the Giants, not the other way around.

 

You were wrong about your summary of events regarding Revis.  That the team that got closer to their initial demand was the one that caved and the other one that gave up more than they wanted to (and who backtracked on their publicly self-imposed deadline) was the one who fleeced the other team by giving up less than they were willing to.  Completely backwards and wrong.

 

 

Jets got as much as they possibly could for a player that only 1 team had any interest in trading for.  Frankly I'm still impressed we got a pick in the top half of the first round for him. 

 

1st round pick this year

3rd round pick next year (unless TB cuts him)

from 2014-2016 an extra $19M/year in cap space

and we had less leverage than Tampa did

 

This was such a no-brainer I don't even know what you're bothered about.

 

But what about the competition at draft time ?

SD called Giants and Giants gave up 3 picks. If true Giants were awful. But SD benefited.

 

You can keep repeating the JETS got the best deal. If that convinces you great!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Oh, this is rich.  You've answered nothing in this thread and if that comment qualifies as an attack, then you've attacked countless people in this thread as well.  You have absolutely no room to talk.

 

Keep repeating that. But does not make it true!

 

I can see now you guys are resorting to douchiness. If you have a concrete evidence let me know. You always deflect away from that. Not opinion.

[ZachEY]

WHAT IS THE BEST DEAL???????????????

[ZachEY]

Keep repeating that. But does not make it true!

 

I can see now you guys are resorting to douchiness. If you have a concrete evidence let me know. You always deflect away from that. Not opinion.

 

Haha.

 

Name one thing you've said that would qualify as "concrete" evidence.  Just one.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I feel like I've answered plenty.

 

At this point, you're making arguments that are non-falsifiable based on faulty premises.  There's nothing left to say.

 

You are just reduced to resorting to personal attacks. And no you have not answered anything!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Haha.

 

Name one thing you've said that would qualify as "concrete" evidence.  Just one.

 

Dense has an edge over you guys. If you go back in this thread you can see where i am coming from. But hey its so difficult to admit you are wrong. So keep rehashing and deflecting. You are doing a good job of that!

[Sperm Edwards]

But what about the competition at draft time ?

SD called Giants and Giants gave up 3 picks. If true Giants were awful. But SD benefited.

 

You can keep repeating the JETS got the best deal. If that convinces you great!

 

Why were the Giants awful? They paid a price they were willing to pay, after shooting down SD's initial trade request of Osi, for a franchise QB they wanted badly (but were not trapped into taking, since Roethlisberger was still available and they liked him a lot as well), and it worked out for them to the tune of 2 superbowls.

 

If you know of something more the Bucs were willing to part with, despite knowing nothing of their private conversations, but out pokerfaced Idzik into giving up less, post it here.

[ZachEY]

Dense has an edge over you guys. If you go back in this thread you can see where i am coming from. But hey its so difficult to admit you are wrong. So keep rehashing and deflecting. You are doing a good job of that!

 

What question has not been answered?  You go first.  I'll answer whatever you want.

 

Then I'll ask a question.  Spoiler alert, it's probably going to be the one where I ask you to explain one part of your premise that is based on concrete evidence.

[Bleedin Green]

Keep repeating that. But does not make it true!

 

I can see now you guys are resorting to douchiness. If you have a concrete evidence let me know. You always deflect away from that. Not opinion.

 

Do you even know what "repeating" means?  That was the very first time I said anything on the subject of personal attacks, as you literally just brought it up.  Is that really the only defense you have for anything anyone says to you now, even when it's completely untrue?  To be clear, you started crying about being personally attacked because EY said you didn't know anything about negotiations.  You've been saying that to every single person who has disagreed with you for pages now.  Therefore, logic would dictate, you were personally attacking every one of those people.  If that's not a personal attack, then you were not personally attacked either.  Either way, I'm pretty sure referring to other posters as douches would qualify.

 

As far as your last blatant lie, you've actually been given a plethora of evidence by numerous posters.  You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.  Your claims that facts are opinions doesn't make that so.  At bare minimum, 31 NFL teams were not willing to surrender more than the Bucs did for Revis' services.  This is fact.  It is not up for debate.  It proves you wrong.

[Bleedin Green]

Dense has an edge over you guys. If you go back in this thread you can see where i am coming from. But hey its so difficult to admit you are wrong. So keep rehashing and deflecting. You are doing a good job of that!

 

This post kind of reminds me of rain on your wedding day.  You know, the free ride when you've already paid.  It's kind of like the good advice that you just didn't take.

 

Who would have thought, it figures?

[JetsFanInDenver]

Why were the Giants awful? They paid a price they were willing to pay, after shooting down SD's initial trade request of Osi, for a franchise QB they wanted badly (but were not trapped into taking, since Roethlisberger was still available and they liked him a lot as well), and it worked out for them to the tune of 2 superbowls.

 

If you know of something more the Bucs were willing to part with, despite knowing nothing of their private conversations, but out pokerfaced Idzik into giving up less, post it here.

 

Giants paid 3 extra picks. Good for SD. But i find the concept of competition you mention interesting. More teams got interested as the draft went on. Interesting concept. Who knew!

 

The last sentence is where you lose me. I respond based on who i consider rational. But then you just forget all about rationality it in your attempts to attack.

 

Here is what i said before and i am not going to retype it again!

 

But since you think evidence can be found on such things how about you provide evidence of why this is the best deal.If you have it let me know.

[JetsFanInDenver]

What question has not been answered?  You go first.  I'll answer whatever you want.

 

Then I'll ask a question.  Spoiler alert, it's probably going to be the one where I ask you to explain one part of your premise that is based on concrete evidence.

 

Go back to my posts and see where you lost the thread!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Do you even know what "repeating" means?  That was the very first time I said anything on the subject of personal attacks, as you literally just brought it up.  Is that really the only defense you have for anything anyone says to you now, even when it's completely untrue?  To be clear, you started crying about being personally attacked because EY said you didn't know anything about negotiations.  You've been saying that to every single person who has disagreed with you for pages now.  Therefore, logic would dictate, you were personally attacking every one of those people.  If that's not a personal attack, then you were not personally attacked either.  Either way, I'm pretty sure referring to other posters as douches would qualify.

 

As far as your last blatant lie, you've actually been given a plethora of evidence by numerous posters.  You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.  Your claims that facts are opinions doesn't make that so.  At bare minimum, 31 NFL teams were not willing to surrender more than the Bucs did for Revis' services.  This is fact.  It is not up for debate.  It proves you wrong.

 

The irony!

 

Fact: Opinions are not evidence!

[HessStation]

WHAT IS THE BEST DEAL???????????????