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Jets Eyeing Second Round QBs (merged)


Strangefunk
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If the Jets pick Smith or Nassib or whomever early in the second round and let them sit for a year,   it's either a stupid pick or they plan on the guy getting a chance to play one day.  If they have Smith/Nassib sit for a season and then draft some other QB  early in 2014 who may or may not be all that great,  what was the point of taking Smith/Nassib? Wasted pick.

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What's the drop off between him and Ertz though?

Eifert is more versatile, more physical, and will help a sh*tty QB out more than Ertz will, IMO. Ertz will be a fancy receiver for a good team, like Dennis Pitta. But for a team like the Jets, Eifert is the guy that can elevate a bad QB. But the point is, saying that you shouldn't draft a TE high is old, old, old-school thinking.

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Yup, agreed. 

 

Kelce or Escobar in R3. Lacy, Geno, Keenan or Hunter in R2. 

 

I can see any of these pairings immediately helping the offense. Just because Tanny/Rex were only capable of getting starters out of R1 the past 4 years, doesn't mean that'll be the case with Idzik.

 

I fully expect 4-5 starters from this draft, meaning they are starting / sharing time before the end of year 1. Starting by year 2.

 

Yeah.  Would be good with any of that.  Not sure what to think about Geno.  But, don't think we should trade up unless it's only an additional 5th.

 

The biggest point you make is about only getting starters in R1, and that's the scary truth.  We need to build at all levels.  Jets best players have always been their highest paid in the last years.  We rarely get value.

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We didn't draft him, we drafted Milliner. 

 

It doesn't make Saban as a secondary coach less relevant, nor does it mean Milliner can't play. 

 

If this is where you need to go with the discussion to try to feel right, go for it. LOL, I'll sit here and help you make an ass out of yourself all afternoon.

I would calm down on saying other people are making asses out of themselves when you made a fool of yourself talking about Saban CB's buddy.

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We didn't draft him, we drafted Milliner.

It doesn't make Saban as a secondary coach less relevant, nor does it mean Milliner can't play.

If this is where you need to go with the discussion to try to feel right, go for it. LOL, I'll sit here and help you make an ass out of yourself all afternoon.

Nah nah nah, amigo. You're the one who said that Saban produces great corners and offered up Kirkpatrick as an example.

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Eifert is more versatile, more physical, and will help a sh*tty QB out more than Ertz will, IMO. Ertz will be a fancy receiver for a good team, like Dennis Pitta. But for a team like the Jets, Eifert is the guy that can elevate a bad QB. But the point is, saying that you shouldn't draft a TE high is old, old, old-school thinking.

 

Not saying you shouldn't universally.  Just that this guy wasn't a Vernon Davis type prospect as much as I'd heard, so, I'd rather go in another direction.

 

I'm also not concerned with "helping a bad QB" as I don't care about next year, and we need a GOOD QB.

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If they draft Geno they should cut Sanchez june 1. 

 

  Not going to happen. Too much money.   They didn't want to pay Revis, they've cut tons of cap this year,  so they are going to pay Sanchez to sit at home or be a backup on some other team?  I doubt it.  Woody won't allow it.

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  Not going to happen. Too much money.   They didn't want to pay Revis, they've cut tons of cap this year,  so they are going to pay Sanchez to sit at home or be a backup on some other team?  I doubt it.  Woody won't allow it.

The money is spent no matter what they do after June 1. It's a sunk cost. They will cut him.

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Nah nah nah, amigo. You're the one who said that Saban produces great corners and offered up Kirkpatrick as an example.

 

 

I said his corners can play. That guy asked for someone "in the league right now" so I gave him the first name that came to mind. He's actually the only guy I know of that played for Saban other than Barron, on memory alone.

 

I'm not wasting the time to research every corner Saban ever coached, I based my statement on what Mayock said. Why didn't I put effort into researching it further? Because finding examples of corners that Saban coached over his career diverts from the core of the conversation, which was to dispel the "Rex is running the show" tantrum.

 

Charges to "go hunt for examples" is the sh*t tactic of people who can't win the original argument they started. 

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The money is spent no matter what they do after June 1. It's a sunk cost. They will cut him.

 

  Woody isn't going to allow it.  We know this.  Dreaming that it'll happen is nice, it actually happening, not likely.

 

 It's a cost no matter what, but Woody isn't going to want to pay Sanchez to sit at home.    He's going to try and get the most out of the guy.  

Sanchez might suck, but he'll be playing QB for the Jets this year.  How much he starts is another story.  People need to just accept that.

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I said his corners can play. That guy asked for someone "in the league right now" so I gave him the first name that came to mind. He's actually the only guy I know of that played for Saban other than Barron, on memory alone.

I'm not wasting the time to research every corner Saban ever coached, I based my statement on what Mayock said. Why didn't I put effort into researching it further? Because finding examples of corners that Saban coached over his career diverts from the core of the conversation, which was to dispel the "Rex is running the show" tantrum.

Charges to "go hunt for examples" is the sh*t tactic of people who can't win the original argument they started.

Find me any Alabama CB under Saban who has been a good NFL player, at any time. You can't because they have all busted, maybe if you wern't talking out of your ass you'd know that. Edited by unbanmadmike1
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I said his corners can play. That guy asked for someone "in the league right now" so I gave him the first name that came to mind. He's actually the only guy I know of that played for Saban other than Barron, on memory alone.

 

I'm not wasting the time to research every corner Saban ever coached, I based my statement on what Mayock said. Why didn't I put effort into researching it further? Because finding examples of corners that Saban coached over his career diverts from the core of the conversation, which was to dispel the "Rex is running the show" tantrum.

 

Charges to "go hunt for examples" is the sh*t tactic of people who can't win the original argument they started. 

 

  You mean this is different compared to how Rex drafted a CB(Wilson) in the first round a couple seasons back.   Or that they've drafted DL the past few years is different than Richardson.  Yeah ok.

Edited by pedro55
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  Not going to happen. Too much money.   They didn't want to pay Revis, they've cut tons of cap this year,  so they are going to pay Sanchez to sit at home or be a backup on some other team?  I doubt it.  Woody won't allow it.

 

If they pick Geno....Sanchez is toast.

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I say hold a competition and let the best QB start the season. Between Garrad, Sanchez, McElroy and whoever we draft.

 

If the quarterback we draft doesn't outperform the incumbents, then let them sit and develop and go into next year and let them try to win the job again when Garrard and Sanchez are likely off the roster.

 

It sounds to me like Idzik is a guy that preaches earning your job as oppose to it just being given (i.e. Russell Wilson over Matt Flynn), the quarterback next year is going to be determined by that, no matter who they draft. At least I hope that is the case...

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I say hold a competition and let the best QB start the season. Between Garrad, Sanchez, McElroy and whoever we draft.

 

If the quarterback we draft doesn't outperform the incumbents, then let them sit and develop and go into next year and let them try to win the job again when Garrard and Sanchez are likely off the roster.

 

It sounds to me like Idzik is a guy that preaches earning your job as oppose to it just being given (i.e. Russell Wilson over Matt Flynn), the quarterback next year is going to be determined by that, no matter who they draft. At least I hope that is the case...

 

  I love how everybody refers to the Seahawks as an example of Idzik knowing what he's doing.  Who knows how much input he had on any of those guys for one, for two,  the Seahawks have had one winning season since Idzik was an employee.  And they got lucky Wilson, a third round QB, turned out to have one of the best rookie QB seasons ever.

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You have two offensive linemen and one slot receiver on the team that would see time for the Patriots. The rest of the offensive personnel would be cut or buried on the bench. The dearth of talent on that side of the ball cannot be overstated. Drafting a corner who's "the best defensive player in the draft...that fell down the board" and a DT to stick between your two prior first rounders does nothing to change that, or help that, or distract from that. Idzik just wasted his two big bullets on players who aren't elevating your program other than by virtue of their youth and price tag.

 

I agree, our offense is putrid and both Warmack and Eiffert would have been mainstays on any team in the league, with the former having All-Pro HOF type potential. However, I still don't feel that top 15 is good value for drafting interior lineman, especially when you have so many other holes to fill with players that have greater returns.  There's been a lot of talk in the SEC that with the way Richardson reshaped his body, he has the ability to play RDE in a four man front, which could allow us to have a line of X-Coples-Wilk-Richardson with the X being a player to be named later to fill into that LDE spot.  The LDE could end up being Coples with the way some have been talking about this potential and we go with a line of Coples-Ellis/Garay-Wilk-Richardson.  That's actually a beastly line and while I understand many feeling it was a wasted pick, I'm gonna hold my judgement until I see how he's used.

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I agree, our offense is putrid and both Warmack and Eiffert would have been mainstays on any team in the league, with the former having All-Pro HOF type potential. However, I still don't feel that top 15 is good value for drafting interior lineman, especially when you have so many other holes to fill with players that have greater returns.  There's been a lot of talk in the SEC that with the way Richardson reshaped his body, he has the ability to play RDE in a four man front, which could allow us to have a line of X-Coples-Wilk-Richardson with the X being a player to be named later to fill into that LDE spot.  The LDE could end up being Coples with the way some have been talking about this potential and we go with a line of Coples-Ellis/Garay-Wilk-Richardson.  That's actually a beastly line and while I understand many feeling it was a wasted pick, I'm gonna hold my judgement until I see how he's used.

 

  If this all works out as people hope, the Jets could again have a great defense.   And if Rex is around, you know the defense will be good.  But the Jets haven't won over the years because their offense just sucks.  If they dont at least attempt to improve their offense in the draft this year, it makes you wonder if it's not 'the same old jets' no matter who becomes GM or coach or scout.

 

 The truth is, Rex/Tanny  or Idzik/Rex,  the draft so far looks about the same.

Edited by pedro55
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Does that preclude them picking a QB in the 1st round next year?

Here is the scenario:

Jets use BPA and see that Geno is there at 39. They say BPA...and take Geno.

Geno is the 3rd QB on the roster for the Jets as Garrard starts, Sanchez is the backup and Geno learns.

The Jets go 4-12 and earn the 4th pick in the draft. Does picking Geno in the second stop the Jets from picking a QB in the 1st round of 2014's draft?

I'd say no. You can sink a 1st round draft pick into the QB if he is a bonafide franchise qb coming out. Remember the Jets Drafted Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round and he was a backup. SO personally, I do not believe that Drafting Geno stops the Jets from drafting a qb in next year's draft..

Do we have the same scouting staff as the previous regime? Because they should not get a check

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Do we have the same scouting staff as the previous regime? Because they should not get a check

 

   Unless you were #1 and had a once in a generation guy like Manning, you don't.   I don't see any of next years guys being for sure bets like Manning or a Luck.

So if you picked Geno Smith this year and he never played,  what would be the point in drafting some other kid at #4?  And who would that be, Alabama's QB?  No thanks.    You either think Geno is the QB of the future or you don't.  No point in picking him in the second round, never play him, and then draft some other kid who isn't a sure thing with the 4th pick in the draft.   At that point it just looks like you have no clue what you're doing.  AKA like the Cleveland browns.

 

 It's one thing to draft Geno, have him play half a season and he just sucks.  Then you do look at picking another QB early.  But never even playing him,  then you start to get into the Why the hell did you draft him conversations.

Edited by pedro55
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Does that preclude them picking a QB in the 1st round next year?

 

Here is the scenario:

 

Jets use BPA and see that Geno is there at 39. They say BPA...and take Geno.

 

Geno is the 3rd QB on the roster for the Jets as Garrard starts, Sanchez is the backup and Geno learns.

 

The Jets go 4-12 and earn the 4th pick in the draft. Does picking Geno in the second stop the Jets from picking a QB in the 1st round of 2014's draft?

 

 

I'd say no. You can sink a 1st round draft pick into the QB if he is a bonafide franchise qb coming out. Remember the Jets Drafted Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round and he was a backup. SO personally, I do not believe that Drafting Geno stops the Jets from drafting a qb in next year's draft..

 

I get your point here but do you really think the Jets are using their first 2nd round pick for what they believe to be a 3rd string QB? I don't. I think if they do this they really believe there is a possibility he will beat out Sanchez and Gerrard.

 

At that point I am not sure what the answer to your question is...it depends how he plays.

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Unless you were #1 and had a once in a generation guy like Manning, you don't. I don't see any of next years guys being for sure bets like Manning or a Luck.

So if you picked Geno Smith this year and he never played, what would be the point in drafting some other

kid at #4? And who would that be, Alabama's QB? No thanks. You either think Geno is the QB of the future or you don't. No point in picking him in the second round, never play him, and then draft some other kid who isn't a sure thing with the 4th pick in the draft. At that point it just looks like you have no clue what you're doing. AKA like the Cleveland browns.

It's one thing to draft Geno, have him play half a season and he just sucks. Then you do look at picking another QB early. But never even playing him, then you start to get into the Why the hell did you draft him conversations.

Ok I'm lost do we or don't we?

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Not saying you shouldn't universally. Just that this guy wasn't a Vernon Davis type prospect as much as I'd heard, so, I'd rather go in another direction.

I'm also not concerned with "helping a bad QB" as I don't care about next year, and we need a GOOD QB.

I should have said "developmental" QB. Geno Smith, for example.

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I said his corners can play. That guy asked for someone "in the league right now" so I gave him the first name that came to mind. He's actually the only guy I know of that played for Saban other than Barron, on memory alone.

I'm not wasting the time to research every corner Saban ever coached, I based my statement on what Mayock said. Why didn't I put effort into researching it further? Because finding examples of corners that Saban coached over his career diverts from the core of the conversation, which was to dispel the "Rex is running the show" tantrum.

Charges to "go hunt for examples" is the sh*t tactic of people who can't win the original argument they started.

Yeah, ok.

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Find me any Alabama CB under Saban who has been a good NFL player, at any time. You can't because they have all busted, maybe if you wern't talking out of your ass you'd know that.

 

 

I have no shame in admitting I put stock in Mayock's point of view. As a fan, you have to trust the experts with good track records. Mayock has that.

 

I also have no shame telling you I'm going to put zero effort into backing up Mayock's statement. Saban coaches more NFL ready players than any other coach in college, and he's got deep roots coaching secondary. That's more than enough for me to have confidence that Milliner will matriculate to the NFL just fine.

 

The credibility of Saban's corners producing isn't the argument though, the argument... that you are running away from... is that YOU start was "Rex is still in charge".

 

Deviating the argument to save face. I get it. You pitched a fit, exhibiting child-like logic "Jets draft 2 defenders + Rex <3 defense = Rex in charge". You made yourself look like an idiot, I just put a spotlight on it. You provided ZERO basis other than booger-eater's logic for this claim, but you want me to go research all secondary players to ever be coached by Saban? 

 

LOL, yeah, okay.

 

Tell me more about the Rex conspiracy, you dimwit.

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I have no shame in admitting I put stock in Mayock's point of view. As a fan, you have to trust the experts with good track records. Mayock has that.

 

I also have no shame telling you I'm going to put zero effort into backing up Mayock's statement. Saban coaches more NFL ready players than any other coach in college, and he's got deep roots coaching secondary. That's more than enough for me to have confidence that Milliner will matriculate to the NFL just fine.

 

The credibility of Saban's corners producing isn't the argument though, the argument... that you are running away from... is that YOU start was "Rex is still in charge".

 

Deviating the argument to save face. I get it. You pitched a fit, exhibiting child-like logic "Jets draft 2 defenders + Rex <3 defense = Rex in charge". You made yourself look like an idiot, I just put a spotlight on it. You provided ZERO basis other than booger-eater's logic for this claim, but you want me to go research all secondary players to ever be coached by Saban? 

 

LOL, yeah, okay.

 

Tell me more about the Rex conspiracy, you dimwit.

Oh ok so you have no idea what you're talking about and are just repeating stuff you heard on TV. 

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