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whodeawhodat
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Ive been a Jet fan since 1998 son. I don't need any help.

 

Son?  ROFLMAO!!!

 

I've been a Jets fan since 1964!!!  I don't like Parcells, and gather that you don't, either, but saying that he wasn't a great HC is just wrong, and saying that Rex is better is just nuts!

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Thanks for your clarification.  Your response raised another question, however.  My question is, When there's a rebuild, isn't the intent always for the replacements to "upgrade" the position over the players they're replacing?

 

Also, I think the truth lies somewhere between Tom's and your position, but closer to Tom's.  While fairly Revis can't be considered part of the rebuild per se, they didn't have much choice but to lose him.  With Cro to take over Revis' spot, and the addition of Milliner, the CB positions should be in good shape.

 

I think Tom's position is pretty strongly supported by what the Jets are doing.  They're replacing 2/5, possibly as much as 3/5 of the starters on the OL, and possibly dramatically changed the DL, replacing Pouha with Ellis and Garay, moving Coples to OLB, and maybe going to more 4 man fronts.  There will be 2 new starters at the Safety positions. They brought in 2 new RBs and 2 new QBs to compete.  They let their starting TE leave.  The only reason they didn't bring in more draft picks or FAs is that they didn't have more picks or more cap space.  Idzik is seeking much more competition, which will be a change in approach.  The team will have a major turnover in personnel, with possibly as many as 7-8 new starters on D and the offense could have as many as 3-4 new starters.   In my opinion, the Jets' situation qualifies as a pretty major rebuild.  If that doesn't qualify as a "scorched earth" rebuild, what does?

T0m's position is that all of the above somehow means the new GM doesn't have faith in the current head coach. Idzik may not have confidence in Rex -I don't know- but I don't see how starting to rebuild the team this year suggests that at all. To me, all that suggests is that Idzik understands he was hired to replace the guy who screwed up the roster.

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Problem is, not sure why the coach would endorse such actions. Maybe it his inability to separate friendships from rostering and playing time decisions.

 

 

Why wouldn't he?  Isn't the purpose to have more talented players?  You and I both know that we disagree about Rex, but I don't see how anything that has happened since March indicates anything one way or the other. 

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look at any/most HCs that have coached in the league and look at their first 4 years as a HC?  Shiiiiiiit, look at little bill in NE's first 4 years with the doo doo browns.  You come off as an irrational with your willingness to bury your head in the sand while screaming "REX SUCKS" instead of being willing to debate the merits of your assessment.

 

Why should I continue to debate the merits of my assessment when its been debated and discussed for 4 ******* years.  Im not irrational, Im a realist.  And a realist can see the MAJOR flaws of Rex Ryan.  Im not one of those blind idiots who think losing 2 AFC championships is a success.  Im not one of those people who support this jerkoff when its plainly obvious certain players need to be benched.  Its plainly obvious rex has no clue on what to do on offense, no clue on how to run or manage a team, and has no clue on how to manage personnel.

 

So continue dropping to your knees and bowing at the great Rex Ryan while trying to delude yourself that he is somehow a competent head coach.  Im not one of them and will never be one of them.

 

As for Belichick and many "great" coaches, talent is needed along with good skills.  Rex had the talent.  He doesnt have the skills.  And Im tired watching him trying to learn on the job 4 ******* years later.

 

With that being said, I still support my team & coach even if I think he's a buffoon.

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If Idzik merely supplemented the existing talent on the roster, plugged some holes, went out a picked up a veteran TE and OLB, maybe drafted a WR high, and set the team up to give Rex one last run at a title, that would show some faith that he thought Rex had the team moving in the right direction. As it was, he did the opposite and tore it down, hard. Rex is in Year Four of his program, not Year One or Year Two where all of the prior regime's players failed him. Rex is getting failed by his own people, his own guys. He's in large part responsible for having one of the worst rosters in the league.

Naturally, we're all speculating on what anything means, but that's why this is a message board and not the Journal of American Science.

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Why wouldn't he?  Isn't the purpose to have more talented players?  You and I both know that we disagree about Rex, but I don't see how anything that has happened since March indicates anything one way or the other. 

My take on this, and maybe you are traveling down a different avenue,is  that Rex is overly loyal to players. The Scotts, Smiths, Sanchezes, etc of the world seem to indicate that your position and roster spot are assured if Rex has a fondness for you. 

 

Rex loves to be known as a "players coach" (he crows about polls stating such), and has difficulty making rostering and starting decisions if they affect "his guys". 

 

It erodes the concept of competition, which Idzik seems to be all about.

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He will.  Because of his mouth and the reputation that the Ryans have for good defenses.  And then he'll win a super bowl and jets fans will lose their minds.

Rex Ryan is Willie Randolph, but with bluster.

 

They both start strong and have a brief glimmer of success due to players first buying in, but lack of strong leadership and organizational skills and locker room strength doom them.

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My take on this, and maybe you are traveling down a different avenue,is  that Rex is overly loyal to players. The Scotts, Smiths, Sanchezes, etc of the world seem to indicate that your position and roster spot are assured if Rex has a fondness for you. 

 

Rex loves to be known as a "players coach" (he crows about polls stating such), and has difficulty making rostering and starting decisions if they affect "his guys". 

 

It erodes the concept of competition, which Idzik seems to be all about.

 

Okay assuming you're right, that would probably be his major flaw (that, being a buffoon and lack of interest in offense).  If Idzik and correct that he might be able to harness the good that Rex provides.  I'm not one of these guys saying Rex is great and guaranteed to stay. I'm saying I like him and he has value.  He may or may not fit the plan, but IMO that remains to be seen.  I don't see how keeping a sh*tty team together benefits Rex in any way. 

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Okay assuming you're right, that would probably be his major flaw (that, being a buffoon and lack of interest in offense).  If Idzik and correct that he might be able to harness the good that Rex provides.  I'm not one of these guys saying Rex is great and guaranteed to stay. I'm saying I like him and he has value.  He may or may not fit the plan, but IMO that remains to be seen.  I don't see how keeping a sh*tty team together benefits Rex in any way. 

Because a sh*tty team is the best that this team could muster this year after all the bad decisions heaped upon it in recent years. Making Rex a placeholder

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T0m's position is that all of the above somehow means the new GM doesn't have faith in the current head coach. Idzik may not have confidence in Rex -I don't know- but I don't see how starting to rebuild the team this year suggests that at all. To me, all that suggests is that Idzik understands he was hired to replace the guy who screwed up the roster.

 

Sorry, I must have missed that in Tom's posts.  What I saw and responded to was the "rebuilding" thing.

 

I agree with you that just because they're rebuilding doesn't mean that Idzik doesn't have faith in Ryan.  The rebuild needs to happen regardless of who the HC is.

 

I do think there's room for surmising however, that Idzik probably isn't all that high on Ryan.  Look at their personalities.  Idzik is more conservative, methodical, disciplined, and extremely organized.  Rex created the circus here, is a blustery loudmouth, is undisciplined and has admitted that he lost the team two years running.  In addition, look at how quiet and seemingly "humble" Rex has become since Idzik was hired.  It's only speculation, but I think it's fair to suppose that Idzik put Rex on notice that there had better be some major changes in how he handles the team this year and how the team acts both on and off the field, or he's gone.

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Because a sh*tty team is the best that this team could muster this year after all the bad decisions heaped upon it in recent years. Making Rex a placeholder

 

 

Dude, can you give up the agenda and admit that this is bullsh*t?  I understand you hate the guy.  I don't deny you the right.  OTOH, they fired the GM.  The GM "buys the groceries" in fat douchebag Tuna speak.  Maybe they (owner, GM) don't blame Rex for the roster.  Isn't that possible? 

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Rex Ryan is Willie Randolph, but with bluster.

They both start strong and have a brief glimmer of success due to players first buying in, but lack of strong leadership and organizational skills and locker room strength doom them.

Poor analogy, IMO. Randolph was a disciplinarian. Rex is much closer to Herm Edwards.

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Sorry, I must have missed that in Tom's posts.  What I saw and responded to was the "rebuilding" thing.

 

I agree with you that just because they're rebuilding doesn't mean that Idzik doesn't have faith in Ryan.  The rebuild needs to happen regardless of who the HC is.

 

I do think there's room for surmising however, that Idzik probably isn't all that high on Ryan.  Look at their personalities.  Idzik is more conservative, methodical, disciplined, and extremely organized.  Rex created the circus here, is a blustery loudmouth, is undisciplined and has admitted that he lost the team two years running.  In addition, look at how quiet and seemingly "humble" Rex has become since Idzik was hired.  It's only speculation, but I think it's fair to suppose that Idzik put Rex on notice that there had better be some major changes in how he handles the team this year and how the team acts both on and off the field, or he's gone.

 

Isnt that the case with any change in leadership?  There's always an adjustment period and during that time, the evaluation process takes place.  Everyone has a different style and you must adjust to that style and sometimes change the way you do things to appease your new leader.  This could be a good thing.  The ying to Rex's yang. 

 

My take on the Rex situation is this: Woody loves Rex, rightfully so.  If Rex was forced on Idzik, which everyone assumes was the case...then why would anyone think that in year 2, he's going to override Woody's power and have him fired?  Additionally, knowing that Idzik has stripped the team down to the bare essentials, dont you think Woody would want to see what Rex can do once they restock the roster with some talent?  He's already proven he can take a mediocre team deep in the playoffs, why not see what he can do with a roster that actually has some talented Football players on it?

 

Besides, I think Idzik will see what a great coach he has in Rex Ryan and come to agree with Woody that he's the best man for the job.  And if he doesnt and fires Rex like so many are claiming is 100% a sure bet, Rex will immediately be the hottest HC on the market next season.  

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Nobody is that stupid.

 

 

Name the mistake made in cutting players.  Who did they let go that they should have kept?  The roster sucked, but they didn't have choices - IMO that is on the GM and I am not a Tannenbaum hater.  You are basically attributing the draft and FA signings all to Rex.  You can argue the substitutions, but I think Tebow and McElroy proved that wasn't necessarily his fault either.  

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Dude, can you give up the agenda and admit that this is bullsh*t?  I understand you hate the guy.  I don't deny you the right.  OTOH, they fired the GM.  The GM "buys the groceries" in fat douchebag Tuna speak.  Maybe they (owner, GM) don't blame Rex for the roster.  Isn't that possible? 

 

Maybe when Woody was going to force Rex on his new GM, he was smart enough to look for a guy who had faith in Rex. Maybe Idzik was not totally full of sh*t in the interview.

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Maybe when Woody was going to force Rex on his new GM, he was smart enough to look for a guy who had faith in Rex. Maybe Idzik was not totally full of sh*t in the interview.

 

If Idzik is willing to give Rex a chance I think we all should, since we're all in on Idzik anyways.  And I wouldn't be too quick to assume this is his last season here either.  I doubt Idzik is thinking the ceiling on this season is higher than 6-10.  If he doesn't lose the team and sends out another good defense, what's Idzik going to say?  We're going in a different direction because he failed to develop his new handpicked QB in 1 season?  Then hire Seattle's offensive coordinator?

Edited by Jetsfan80
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If Idzik is willing to give Rex a chance I think we all should, since we're all in on Idzik anyways.  And I wouldn't be too quick to assume this is his last season here either.  I doubt Idzik is thinking the ceiling on this season is higher than 6-10.  If he doesn't lose the team and sends out another good defense, what's Idzik going to say?  We're going in a different direction because he failed to develop his new handpicked QB in 1 season?  Then hire Seattle's offensive coordinator?

 

My gut tells me Idzik will say to be patient, but maybe he'll bring in a few coaches and make it a competition.

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Name the mistake made in cutting players. Who did they let go that they should have kept? The roster sucked, but they didn't have choices - IMO that is on the GM and I am not a Tannenbaum hater. You are basically attributing the draft and FA signings all to Rex. You can argue the substitutions, but I think Tebow and McElroy proved that wasn't necessarily his fault either.

Tannenbaum was a errand boy who provided nothing in the way of player evaluation or roster management. He was an accountant who relied on others to tell him what to do, regardless of whether or not they were qualified to do so. He was largely worthless. Whatever percentage of the roster makeup you want to attribute to Rex, that percentage has led to a rebuild after four years. Traditionally, a coach gets four years to install his vision and have the team contending. Rex installed his vision and the team is in the toilet. What you see now when you look at the Jets is what Rex produced. He made it, with Tannenbaum. Neither deserved to keep their jobs.

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If Idzik merely supplemented the existing talent on the roster, plugged some holes, went out a picked up a veteran TE and OLB, maybe drafted a WR high, and set the team up to give Rex one last run at a title, that would show some faith that he thought Rex had the team moving in the right direction. As it was, he did the opposite and tore it down, hard. Rex is in Year Four of his program, not Year One or Year Two where all of the prior regime's players failed him. Rex is getting failed by his own people, his own guys. He's in large part responsible for having one of the worst rosters in the league.

Naturally, we're all speculating on what anything means, but that's why this is a message board and not the Journal of American Science.

You have got to be joking. What championship players should they have held onto? What one last run veterans were they supposed to buy with their limited cap room? Who in their right mind thinks this team was even close to making a championship run?

Replacing guards and safeties is hardly tearing it down hard, IMHO. All of these moves were necessitated by years of bad drafting, a top-heavy roster, and an overall lack of depth. It would've been shockingly irresponsible to try to make some sort of championship run. Recognizing that this roster is nowhere close to a Super Bowl doesn't equate to not having faith in the coach.

This isn't year five of the Ryan era as far as Idzik is concerned, it's year one of the Idzik era. He's making the moves to put his team in place. Period. That could very well involve replacing Rex next year. But starting a necessary rebuild doesn't reflect on the coach one way or the other.

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You have got to be joking. What championship players should they have held onto? What one last run veterans were they supposed to buy with their limited cap room? Who in their right mind thinks this team was even close to making a championship run?

Replacing guards and safeties is hardly tearing it down hard, IMHO. All of these moves were necessitated by years of bad drafting, a top-heavy roster, and an overall lack of depth. It would've been shockingly irresponsible to try to make some sort of championship run. Recognizing that this roster is nowhere close to a Super Bowl doesn't equate to not having faith in the coach.

This isn't year five of the Ryan era as far as Idzik is concerned, it's year one of the Idzik era. He's making the moves to put his team in place. Period. That could very well involve replacing Rex next year. But starting a necessary rebuild doesn't reflect on the coach one way or the other.

I'm really not joking. This is Rex's team they're stripping. It's unfortunate that Rex's team sucks and requires shredding. It's unfortunate that Rex's vision required heaping cash on guys like Bart Scott and Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez whose contracts hurt the team's ability to sign players this year. It's unfortunate that Rex's alleged coaching greatness didn't allow him to coach up any players to provide depth to the roster, or to produce capable replacements for players who aged out.

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I'm really not joking. This is Rex's team they're stripping. It's unfortunate that Rex's team sucks and requires shredding. It's unfortunate that Rex's vision required heaping cash on guys like Bart Scott and Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez whose contracts hurt the team's ability to sign players this year. It's unfortunate that Rex's alleged coaching greatness didn't allow him to coach up any players to provide depth to the roster, or to produce capable replacements for players who aged out.

 

No team should be relying this heavily on a 1st-time HC to be building the roster.  IF Rex really was calling the shots, how can you pin it ALL on him when that's not even supposed to be his job?  He was doing the work of multiple people, in your eyes, and still fielding a competitive team for 3 of his 4 years. 

 

If your take is correct, I'm even more impressed with the job Rex did, not LESS.  He has an idiot owner and worthless GM, is doing all the work, and somehow wins some playoff games with a retard at QB.  Rex is the f***ing man. 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Tom.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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I'm really not joking. This is Rex's team they're stripping. It's unfortunate that Rex's team sucks and requires shredding. It's unfortunate that Rex's vision required heaping cash on guys like Bart Scott and Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez whose contracts hurt the team's ability to sign players this year. It's unfortunate that Rex's alleged coaching greatness didn't allow him to coach up any players to provide depth to the roster, or to produce capable replacements for players who aged out.

 

If this was all Rex, why did Woody retain him?  Why did he force him on the new GM and why did this new GM agree?

 

Coaches coach, GM's form the roster.  Rex said many times, he had 1 pick in each draft.  He even mentioned Hill was forced on him.  

 

The Jets were Tanny's baby.  He was no different before Rex.  HUGE contracts to dying players like Faneca or mediocre ones like Pace.  Trading for Favre in the middle of the night.  Trading for Tebow who Rex wouldnt play. His love for trading up in the draft. His love for trading picks.  These were all habits and traits of Tanny prior to Rex.  Every single thing thats happened with the Jets from a roster perspective points to Mike Tannenbaum but you're placing it on Rex. 

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No team should be relying this heavily on a 1st-time HC to be building the roster. IF Rex really was calling the shots, how can you pin it ALL on him when that's not even supposed to be his job? He was doing the work of multiple people, in your eyes, and still fielding a competitive team for 3 of his 4 years.

If your take is correct, I'm even more impressed with the job Rex did, not LESS. He has an idiot owner and worthless GM, is doing all the work, and somehow wins some playoff games with a retard at QB. Rex is the f***ing man.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Tom.

The team is in free fall. It was good three years ago. It is terrible now. If you want to absolve the Head Coach of all blame for that, be my guest.

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If this was all Rex, why did Woody retain him?  Why did he force him on the new GM and why did this new GM agree?

 

Coaches coach, GM's form the roster.  Rex said many times, he had 1 pick in each draft.  He even mentioned Hill was forced on him.  

 

The Jets were Tanny's baby.  He was no different before Rex.  HUGE contracts to dying players like Faneca or mediocre ones like Pace.  Trading for Favre in the middle of the night.  Trading for Tebow who Rex wouldnt play. His love for trading up in the draft. His love for trading picks.  These were all habits and traits of Tanny prior to Rex.  Every single thing thats happened with the Jets from a roster perspective points to Mike Tannenbaum but you're placing it on Rex. 

 

It's because Tannenbaum is gone and he needs someone to blame.  His vitriol for Mike T was well-documented, yet somehow we're to forget about that.  Because Rex's boss was doofus, the full blame falls on......REX.  Makes PERFECT sense!

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The team is in free fall. It was good three years ago. It is terrible now. If you want to absolve the Head Coach of all blame for that, be my guest.

 

That's what happens when you miss on a franchise QB.  I have been more willing to give Rex a fair share of blame for that mistake, and contract extension of said mistake.  Somewhere along the line, he enthusiastically signed off on both the drafting and extension decisions.

 

However, things would have/will look a lot better for this team with a capable QB.  Let's hope Geno is the goods.  If he is, all of a sudden we're the team with a Russell Wilson a really good young defense and are looking pretty solid.  The Redskins were in free-fall for over a decade before they found RG3, and overnight they were in the playoffs and a threat to the rest of the league.  That's how it works, and you know this to be true.

 

If it doesn't work out, you might get your wish, Rex will be gone, and they'll try a new QB.  Pretty simple.

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Tannenbaum was a errand boy who provided nothing in the way of player evaluation or roster management. He was an accountant who relied on others to tell him what to do, regardless of whether or not they were qualified to do so. He was largely worthless. Whatever percentage of the roster makeup you want to attribute to Rex, that percentage has led to a rebuild after four years. Traditionally, a coach gets four years to install his vision and have the team contending. Rex installed his vision and the team is in the toilet. What you see now when you look at the Jets is what Rex produced. He made it, with Tannenbaum. Neither deserved to keep their jobs.

 

 

Boy that Rex sure does a lot.  No wonder he doesn't have time to install a competent offense.  

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Boy that Rex sure does a lot.  No wonder he doesn't have time to install a competent offense.  

 

Tom's hate for Tannenbaum was so well known there was a Super Bowl bet that could have left him with a "I <3 Tannenbaum" tattoo.  On his chest. 

 

ALL REX'S FAULT.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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That's what happens when you miss on a franchise QB. I have been more willing to give Rex a fair share of blame for that mistake, and contract extension of said mistake. Somewhere along the line, he enthusiastically signed off on both the drafting and extension decisions.

However, things would have/will look a lot better for this team with a capable QB. Let's hope Geno is the goods. If not, you might get your wish, Rex will be gone, and they'll try a new QB. Pretty simple.

Literally every coach who ever picked up a clipboard would field better results if they had a Hall of Famer at QB.

If you want to play the hypotheticals game, then we should just award the 2000 Jets a retroactive Super Bowl ring because they were the favorites to win it all until they had to play with Rick Mirer, and we should re-hire Herm because Chad fell apart, and we should re-hire Mangini because he was 8-3 when his HoF QB blew out his bicep.

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