We cant start Geno with this group of WR's...

[SayNoToDMC]

Not enough anger in this thread. Where's Gaype?

 

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST SHOW SOME CONSISTENCY WITH THEIR STUPID ARGUMENTS? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? GOD DAMMIT

[SenorGato]

Wait. You think it's just about finding someone to get Hill the ball?

Have you watched Hill run?

It's 100% about finding someone to get Hill the ball. "Have you watched Hill run" doesn't really do it for me. I don't care about having elite WRs, I much prefer an elite QB and an elite QB is far more vital to producing an elite offense.

Isn't this the board with the 500 page "who the **** is Wes Welker" thread? QBs over Weaponz.

[SenorGato]

Ok, so like Woody you see this year as a do over for Rex. The decisions from 2009-2012 have nothing to do with the 2013 Jets/Rex Ryan.

 

If you think surrounding a young QB who already displayed confidence issues with Mason. Plax and Holmes(The Captain) was a good idea then I need to bow out of this argument cause it's a no win situation.

 

I agree though, let me know how we get a top 5 QB and will definitely be better. I figure the only way to do that is through the draft and development but lets just throw the kid in there on a team with worse receivers then he had in college, a new offensive system and a significant step up in competition. I mean if playing poorly under those circumstances could in any way effect his confidence then he's the worst. Then next year if all goes well and he builds a little chemistry with his receivers we can replace them and sign a couple of aging malcontents to pair with Holmes instead.

 

This is not a do over. This is just not those years. That is a fact. I am saying Rex Ryan is not the GM, has never been the GM, and this board's tendency to associate him with GM decisions is a dumb route to take.

 

If you think a young QB with confidence issues is a secondary problem for the offense then you probably should bow out of this conversation.

 

The Jets were very strong in 2009 and 2010 with a top 30 QB. They haven't even gotten top 30 play the past two years, and in fact were closer to FIFTY last year. They do not need a top 5 QB, but relative to having a top 5 WR/group of Weaponz they would be best served by finding the QB. From there you greatly exaggerate the WR talent issue - the issue is that most of the talent is not proven more so than these guys lack the physical ability to play in the NFL. To offset that they drafted two OL prospects with top 3 round pre-draft grades to an OL that already has two prime aged first rounders and a guy who did just fine at RT last year. If there's a second most important part to an offense - and there is - by far it would be the offensive line, especially in a case like the Jets where the skill guys are mostly extremely young/raw. 

 

When a QB starts hitting guys in stride like an NFL QB should, you'll suddenly find Weaponz all over the place. 

[SayNoToDMC]

This is not a do over. This is just not those years. That is a fact. I am saying Rex Ryan is not the GM, has never been the GM, and this board's tendency to associate him with GM decisions is a dumb route to take.

 

If you think a young QB with confidence issues is a secondary problem for the offense then you probably should bow out of this conversation.

 

The Jets were very strong in 2009 and 2010 with a top 30 QB. They haven't even gotten top 30 play the past two years, and in fact were closer to FIFTY last year. They do not need a top 5 QB, but relative to having a top 5 WR/group of Weaponz they would be best served by finding the QB. From there you greatly exaggerate the WR talent issue - the issue is that most of the talent is not proven more so than these guys lack the physical ability to play in the NFL. To offset that they drafted two OL prospects with top 3 round pre-draft grades to an OL that already has two prime aged first rounders and a guy who did just fine at RT last year. If there's a second most important part to an offense - and there is - by far it would be the offensive line, especially in a case like the Jets where the skill guys are mostly extremely young/raw. 

 

When a QB starts hitting guys in stride like an NFL QB should, you'll suddenly find Weaponz all over the place. 

 

100% totally Just need somebody to get the ball to these guys then we can beat the Pats. We gotz weaponz everywhere

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000083811/Hill-drops-key-third-down-pass

[SenorGato]

Lol are you really going to make the argument that having a QB who consistently does a QBs job well won't be the defining step in beating the Pats (to go along with One of Ryan's monster defenses of course)?

Look, I can pick arbitrary moments in a rookie year too:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000059900/Sanchez-to-Hill-for-TD

[SayNoToDMC]

No, but I'm going to continue to argue that if you want an top tier QB we have a better chance going the opposite rout we did with Mark as far development and continuity. It's that or we can wait till the next great Andrew Luck type QB comes out and I'll agree with everyone who says it doesn't matter, toss him in there. There's a reason we got this guy in the second round.

[Matt39]

why even draft WR's then....

[Sperm Edwards]

I was hoping the excessive "BAM" would indicate that I was being facetious.

 

Feces-ious.

[Jet27]

This Garrard injury/retirement hurts more than anything...I dont think there's much of a choice to throw Sanchez or whomever(Simms, other scrub...) to the wolves for another year and Rex buys himself another one with Woody as Geno gets developed. Plus we'll get a top 5 pick, possibly higher and the potential CLowney, Bridgewater selection

 

Geno is raw as hell. Throwing him out there with zero starting caliber NFL players on the outside or at tight end...just doesnt seem like a good idea. This WR group is as bad as Ive seen...

 

At least with Garrard he'd probably be able to make some due with who we have...which is horrendous, but...whatever Garrard was never the future.

We will be fine............

[T0mShane]

I think Rex should tape Geno's ankles together and put an eye-patch on him and make him start Week One, and if he struggles, well, he probably wasn't "the guy" anyway, and we can just repeat the process next year with Teddy Bridgewater because that's how you make quarterbacks happen.

[T0mShane]

We will be fine............

Can't argue with this kinda logic.

[T0mShane]

Feces-ious.

So's your face-etious.

[SayNoToDMC]

I think Rex should tape Geno's ankles together and put an eye-patch on him and make him start Week One, and if he struggles, well, he probably wasn't "the guy" anyway, and we can just repeat the process next year with Teddy Bridgewater because that's how you make quarterbacks happen.

We could line up with 7 guys on offense and none of that noise will even matter, not if Geno's the guy.

[SenorGato]

No, but I'm going to continue to argue that if you want an top tier QB we have a better chance going the opposite rout we did with Mark as far development and continuity. It's that or we can wait till the next great Andrew Luck type QB comes out and I'll agree with everyone who says it doesn't matter, toss him in there. There's a reason we got this guy in the second round.

Opposite of Sanchez....so no OL or running game but name WRs?

So you want to be the Lions?

That would end well.

They didn't get Smith in the second because of their lack of WRs or his lack of talent. Sometimes you just have to thank the NFL for scripting a good thig for the Jets.

[SayNoToDMC]

Opposite of Sanchez....so no OL or running game but name WRs?

So you want to be the Lions?

That would end well.

They didn't get Smith in the second because of their lack of WRs or his lack of talent. Sometimes you just have to thank the NFL for scripting a good thig for the Jets.

 

Totally what I've been saying, as always a pleasure attempting to debate you. You've officially beat my spirit into submission. I'm going to go smash my head into a wall for a few hours rather then continue.

[SenorGato]

I would say its closer to what you're saying than you know it is. Unless opposite of Sanchez is nothing at all - what Andrew Luck walked into last year in Indy .

[Smashmouth]

No, but I'm going to continue to argue that if you want an top tier QB we have a better chance going the opposite rout we did with Mark as far development and continuity. It's that or we can wait till the next great Andrew Luck type QB comes out and I'll agree with everyone who says it doesn't matter, toss him in there. There's a reason we got this guy in the second round.

 

we got this guy in the second round because he fell to us. If the Jets really really wanted him they would have taken him with the 13th pick. Not that that should have any bearing on how we handle the kid, it is what it is.

 

If we are truly looking at this kid as the future then we better start getting some talented young skill players in here so they can ALL grow within the offense together. patchwork offenses do not work, period.

[SayNoToDMC]

we got this guy in the second round because he fell to us. If the Jets really really wanted him they would have taken him with the 13th pick. Not that that should have any bearing on how we handle the kid, it is what it is.

 

If we are truly looking at this kid as the future then we better start getting some talented young skill players in here so they can ALL grow within the offense together. patchwork offenses do not work, period.

 

And he fell to us why? nobody else needed a QB? There are holes in his game that I thought could use refining but if I've learned anything from this thread it's that none of that matters. You throw him in from day one and if he struggles at all with this group or loses any confidence playing early it's because he sucks. Also who cares about continuity with skill players? none of that matters if the rookie QB is the goods

[Jetsfan80]

And he fell to us why? nobody else needed a QB? There are holes in his game that I thought could use refining but if I've learned anything from this thread it's that none of that matters. You throw him in from day one and if he struggles at all with this group or loses any confidence playing early it's because he sucks. Also who cares about continuity with skill players? none of that matters if the rookie QB is the goods

 

If we still had Garrard I'd be in total favor with starting him and letting Geno learn, for a few weeks, behind a professional veteran QB.  That option isn't available to us now.  If he's really got tons of holes in his game he's not going to learn how to fix them sitting and watching Sanchez.  Unless Sanchez beats Geno in the QB competition, Geno ought to start from Week 1 and let's see what he's got.  Then we can start to build around him adequately. 

[Smashmouth]

And he fell to us why? nobody else needed a QB? There are holes in his game that I thought could use refining but if I've learned anything from this thread it's that none of that matters. You throw him in from day one and if he struggles at all with this group or loses any confidence playing early it's because he sucks. Also who cares about continuity with skill players? none of that matters if the rookie QB is the goods

 

Look Im fine with the logic of throwing a QB in there right away but as it stands right now this team does not even have a viable safety valve for any QB. We have no TE and whether or not Ivory can consistently catch a football remains to be seen, not to mention the guy can't stay healthy. If you think throwing a QB into this mess of crap we currently call an offense is a good idea then get ready to destroy yet another QB.  

[CrazyCarl40]

If we still had Garrard I'd be in total favor with starting him and letting Geno learn, for a few weeks, behind a professional veteran QB. That option isn't available to us now. If he's really got tons of holes in his game he's not going to learn how to fix them sitting and watching Sanchez. Unless Sanchez beats Geno in the QB competition, Geno ought to start from Week 1 and let's see what he's got. Then we can start to build around him adequately.

If he has a ton of holes in his game, he should start immediately so that he can fix them? Seriously? Is that what you just said?

[Jetsfan80]

If he has a ton of holes in his game, he should start immediately so that he can fix them? Seriously? Is that what you just said?

 

Mark Sanchez has more holes in his game after 4 years than Geno Smith has right now as we speak.  What is he going to learn sitting on the bench?

 

My solution is better than, say, if Sanchez loses the QB battle but still starts anyways.  That would be retarded.  Geno has a prototypical QB body, minimized interceptions in college, has a stronger arm than Sanchez, and is a more gifted athlete.  If the only thing wrong with him is is his brain, well guess what, Sanchez has that same issue.  I'd rather go with Geno if Geno outperforms Sanchez in camp.

[CrazyCarl40]

Mark Sanchez has more holes in his game after 4 years than Geno Smith has right now as we speak. What is he going to learn sitting on the bench?

My solution is better than, say, if Sanchez loses the QB battle but still starts anyways. That would be retarded. Geno has a prototypical QB body, minimized interceptions in college, has a stronger arm than Sanchez, and is a more gifted athlete. If the only thing wrong with him is is his brain, well guess what, Sanchez has that same issue. I'd rather go with Geno if Geno outperforms Sanchez in camp.

Geno hasn't played a down in the NFL. How do you know what holes he does have or doesn't? Based on his college performance? You can't go by that at all.

I just don't see the point of starting a rookie who may have a "ton of holes", especially if they are fixable. There is no need for a trial by fire with him. If you think he's the future give him the time he needs to mature.

[Jetsfan80]

Geno hasn't played a down in the NFL. How do you know what holes he does have or doesn't? Based on his college performance? You can't go by that at all.

I just don't see the point of starting a rookie who may have a "ton of holes", especially if they are fixable. There is no need for a trial by fire with him. If you think he's the future give him the time he needs to mature.

 

So if Geno outperforms Sanchez in camp (which is inevitable), would you advocate starting Sanchez?

[CrazyCarl40]

So if Geno outperforms Sanchez in camp (which is inevitable), would you advocate starting Sanchez?

No. I never said that. If Geno has a ton of flaws why would he beat out Sanchez? I think he should sit for at least half a season.

[Jetsfan80]

No. I never said that. If Geno has a ton of flaws why would he beat out Sanchez? I think he should sit for at least half a season.

 

 

[SayNoToDMC]

So if Geno outperforms Sanchez in camp (which is inevitable), would you advocate starting Sanchez?

 

 

I would, He's making 10 million so make him take the lumps for half the season while we work in the new line/offense. When Mark inevitably sucks you start him some time after week 10 when he's more comfortable with the system, the line is hopefully gelling better and most of the pressure to win is off. What's the benefit of throwing him in from day 1? I mean he barely took a snap under center in college.

[Jetsfan80]

I would, He's making 10 million so make him take the lumps for half the season while we work in the new line/offense. When Mark inevitable sucks you start him some time after week 10 when he's more comfortable with the system, the line is hopefully gelling better and most of the pressure to win is off. What's the benefit of throwing him in from day 1? I mean he barely took a snap under center in college.

 

So then all this talk about this being a QB competition......just throw all that out.  I see.  The benefit is a larger sample size to see what he's capable of.  Along with the added benefit of not having to watch Mark Sanchez play football.

 

I think because of Sanchez we all have this belief that all/most young QB's are fragile and can be ruined if they start right away.  Not so.  He might just succeed.

[SayNoToDMC]

So then all this talk about this being a QB competition......just throw all that out.  I see.  The benefit is a larger sample size to see what he's capable of.  Along with the added benefit of not having to watch Mark Sanchez play football.

 

I think because of Sanchez we all have this belief that all/most young QB's are fragile and can be ruined if they start right away.  Not so.  He might just succeed.

 

Nobody wants to watch Mark play football ever again, his father probably switches to Chargers games when Marks on. I'm more concerned with not ******* up another QB so I can deal with Mark for half a season if it means long term it increases the chances at all I can see something better then the sh*tty QB play I've been accustomed to all my life.

[Jetsfan80]

Nobody wants to watch Mark play football ever again, his father probably switches to Chargers games when Marks on. I'm more concerned with not ******* up another QB so I can deal with Mark for half a season if it means long term it increases the chances at all I can see something better then the sh*tty QB play I've been accustomed to all my life.

 

I just don't think starting Geno in Week 1, 6, 12, or 2014 will make too much of a difference. If we're saying this is a QB competition then the job should go to the QB that performs the best in camp, period.  If that ends up being Geno, I see no reason to wait to play him.  

[Jet27]

Can't argue with this kinda logic.

No negative vibes ok.....

[Integrity28]

We all just sit around here saying the same sh*t every day. 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Nobody wants to watch Mark play football ever again, his father probably switches to Chargers games when Marks on. 

 

lol

[JustInFudge]

Nobody wants to watch Mark play football ever again, his father probably switches to Chargers games when Marks on. I'm more concerned with not ******* up another QB so I can deal with Mark for half a season if it means long term it increases the chances at all I can see something better then the sh*tty QB play I've been accustomed to all my life.

 

Repped for the bold, but I agree with below:

 

I just don't think starting Geno in Week 1, 6, 12, or 2014 will make too much of a difference. If we're saying this is a QB competition then the job should go to the QB that performs the best in camp, period.  If that ends up being Geno, I see no reason to wait to play him.  

 

I said it earlier in thread.  If Geno outperforms Mark, you have to start him or Idzik starts his careers with the Jets on the wrong foot.  He'll be a hypocrite and a liar in the eyes of everyone on the team.  Not a good way to start your career.

[Matt39]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results