NY Jets Week One Starting Quarterback: Geno Smith

[JoeKlecko]

 

 

 

 

I cannot point to a specific article or sportscast that said that reliable sources said Woody was thinking of firing Rex-no owner or GM ever says that before the fact anyway.  Actually Ken Harrelson openly speculated on TV about letting his manager go when he was GM way back when and got roundly blasted by everyone for it.  But that was baseball, and I haven't heard anyone do it in any sport before or since.

 

What I heard was sportscasts before and after the fact saying that it would come down to Tanny or Rex.  Whether those reports were based on actual sources or analyses by the individual sportscasters phrased to sound like factual reports, I cannot say.

 

 

 

 

 

I meant that the decision to fire someone this year resulted in Tannenbaum exiting and Rex staying for at least this year.  Obviously Woody would not just fire Tannenbaum, go on an extensive search for a GM then give the GM the right to fire Rex as his first order of business. If he was going to do that, he would have just fired Tanny and Rex and let the new man pick his coach.  Having Rex in place as the coach likely caused some candidates to go somewhere where they can pick their own coach.  That does not mean Woody is committed to Rex forever.

 

 

Again, I disagree.  Why wouldn't he give the GM the right to fire Rex if he thought Rex was part of the problem?  Why would Woody also fire Rex if he wasn't sure, and obviously isn't qualified to make that kind of decision?  

 

It was obvious that Tanny was a big part of the problem (lousy handling of the draft and FA, absurd contracts that had put the team in cap hell) and needed to go.  There were also many questions about Rex (his losing the team 2 years in a row, the circus atmosphere, sticking with Sanchez for far too long, his choice of Sparano, his handling of the offense, and other things).  Woody wasn't qualified to ascertain whether or not Rex was equally culpable and should perhaps also be fired.  That decision should have been left up to the new GM since a big part of a GM's job is to assess the organization and make whatever changes are necessary to turn the team around.  

 

You don't hire a manager or boss for your business then tell him he can't fire anyone or make any changes.  That's insane, and that's why higher profile and perhaps better candidates (who had solid personnel experience) than Idzik quickly said they had zero interest in the Jets job.  That part of the hiring process was NOT handled well, and why I still have some strong doubts about Woody and the Jets.  If Woody has stepped back with the hiring of Idzik, and if Idzik is qualified, then we can all breathe easier.  If neither of those two things are true, then not much will change.

[JoeKlecko]

Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet....

The best we can say about Idzik is that he hasn't done anything glaringly stupid so far. Unless signing David Garrard was stupid, or trading for Ivory was stupid, or signing Goodson for more money than Ivory was stupid. Or Milliner or Richardson is a bust. Or Geno's a bust. Or letting Moore or Slausson go was stupid, or Keller. Or DeVito.

In other words, the best you can give the guy is an incomplete.

 

Odd choice of words.  LOL

 

No one's anointing him for the HOF yet.  Still, one can't deny that he goes about his job in a much more professional manner than Tanny ever did.  He's not seeking the limelight or to make the back pages of the tabloids.  He has been methodical in his approach to things.  He did about as well as could be expected with the cap and FA.  It seems that he reined Rex in, reducing the circus atmosphere, and that's definitely good.  It at least seems that the draft picks were good, he got value, didn't reach, and he addressed some of the team's glaring needs.  

 

Of course, he will be judged down the road as to how good his draft picks become and whether some of the players who he bypassed in the draft and who would have fit team needs become great players.  He will be judged by his handling of all the cap space next year and the talent he chooses in next year's draft (and whether he sticks strictly with BAP and ignores great needs like WR, S, TE, OLB).  He has made some changes in the FO as well.  Some, he made, and some others were made for him (people quit to take jobs elsewhere).  We'll see if we lost some personnel who were good at their jobs or who were bad at them.  We'll see if the Scouting Dept. was part of the problem.  We'll see what kind of job Graves and the other FO hires do.  There's not a lot of information to go on yet.  But at least for me, the things that he has said and done are encouraging, as was using the executive search firm to hire him.

 

Woody could still screw it all up if he interferes and doesn't give Idzik free rein.  Idzik could screw it up with poor hires in the FO and Scouting Depts., with the draft, and/or with his assessment of Rex and the CS.  At least Idzik has a solid football background and isn't just a bean counter and attorney.  His lack of personnel experience is a concern for me and why he wasn't my favorite candidate for the job. I'm hoping he will prove me wrong.  His hiring of Graves, who didn't do a very good job in Phoenix gives me further concern.  We'll see.

[Thor99]

+1

It's kinda nice to wake up in the morning and not worry about whether or not the Jets' GM just embarrassed the franchise again while you were sleeping.

It's just the fans who do that now. Are you posting during a movie?

[T0mShane]

It's just the fans who do that now. Are you posting during a movie?

I legit lol'ed. Any time I see you posted, I know I'm about to get rolled.

[T0mShane]

Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet....

The best we can say about Idzik is that he hasn't done anything glaringly stupid so far. Unless signing David Garrard was stupid, or trading for Ivory was stupid, or signing Goodson for more money than Ivory was stupid. Or Milliner or Richardson is a bust. Or Geno's a bust. Or letting Moore or Slausson go was stupid, or Keller. Or DeVito.

In other words, the best you can give the guy is an incomplete.

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for a GM that's going to be conservative, clean house, and at least set the table for a solid rebuild. A pragmatist, if you will. As bad as the Mets have been, I can take solace in the fact that at least Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson look like they know what they're doing.

[slats]

I too am pleased with Idzik so far and was both pleasantly surprised and pleased with how the selection process was handled.  Those two things have given me more hope for Woody, and in turn for the Jets, than I've had in a long time.  If it weren't for those two things, I probably wouldn't be here or on any Jets sites.

Woody likes Rex, and wants to see Rex succeed. I'm sure Woody made that clear to all of his potential GM candidates. Rex needs discipline. He's not going to be as effective in the co-boss relationship he had with Tannenbaum, he needs to have a boss. And I think Idzik brings that to the table.

And for his part, Idzik has been building a team that Rex probably would design if he had that capability. His top veteran pickups have been RBs and OL, and his first draft gave Rex two first rounders for his defense, more OL, and a QB who they all certainly hope will be better than Sanchez. Really, ground & pound redux. I know some people want to think that Idzik is counting down the days until he can fire Rex, but none of his actions so far suggest that that's the case. He's putting together exactly the kind of team that Rex has had success with in the (recent) past.

[T0mShane]

Woody likes Rex, and wants to see Rex succeed. I'm sure Woody made that clear to all of his potential GM candidates. Rex needs discipline. He's not going to be as effective in the co-boss relationship he had with Tannenbaum, he needs to have a boss. And I think Idzik brings that to the table.

And for his part, Idzik has been building a team that Rex probably would design if he had that capability. His top veteran pickups have been RBs and OL, and his first draft gave Rex two first rounders for his defense, more OL, and a QB who they all certainly hope will be better than Sanchez. Really, ground & pound redux. I know some people want to think that Idzik is counting down the days until he can fire Rex, but none of his actions so far suggest that that's the case. He's putting together exactly the kind of team that Rex has had success with in the (recent) past.

Idzik is putting together the team he just helped put together in Seattle--roughneck OLine, mauling FA back, pass rushers, and a quarterback eerily similar to the one that Darrell Bevell turned into Russell Wilson. Rex doesn't have a "team he would put together." If he did, he'd have put it together by now.

[slats]

At least Idzik has a solid football background and isn't just a bean counter and attorney.  His lack of personnel experience is a concern for me and why he wasn't my favorite candidate for the job. I'm hoping he will prove me wrong.  His hiring of Graves, who didn't do a very good job in Phoenix gives me further concern.  We'll see.

I'm not sure his football background is all that solid. I also wanted a personnel guy, a guy who could break down film on his own and make the tough decisions about a player based on his own knowledge and abilities, rather than having to rely on someone else's opinion. That was Tannenbaum's greatest failure. It's why, IMHO, he always paid the most for the consensus FA, and fell in love with one player in the draft. He just had no ability to judge talent on his own, and relied on people inside and outside (the media) the organization for his opinions.

The Graves hire doesn't give me a lot of hope, either.

[T0mShane]

Of course, he will be judged down the road as to how good his draft picks become and whether some of the players who he bypassed in the draft and who would have fit team needs become great players. He will be judged by his handling of all the cap space next year and the talent he chooses in next year's draft (and whether he sticks strictly with BAP and ignores great needs like WR, S, TE, OLB). He has made some changes in the FO as well. Some, he made, and some others were made for him (people quit to take jobs elsewhere). We'll see if we lost some personnel who were good at their jobs or who were bad at them. We'll see if the Scouting Dept. was part of the problem. We'll see what kind of job Graves and the other FO hires do. There's not a lot of information to go on yet. But at least for me, the things that he has said and done are encouraging, as was using the executive search firm to hire him.

Woody could still screw it all up if he interferes and doesn't give Idzik free rein. Idzik could screw it up with poor hires in the FO and Scouting Depts., with the draft, and/or with his assessment of Rex and the CS. At least Idzik has a solid football background and isn't just a bean counter and attorney. His lack of personnel experience is a concern for me and why he wasn't my favorite candidate for the job. I'm hoping he will prove me wrong. His hiring of Graves, who didn't do a very good job in Phoenix gives me further concern. We'll see.

The Graves hire is encouraging because he'll at least provide another credible voice in personnel matters, adding another buffer between Rex/Woody and the actual signing or drafting of a player. Before, Rex and Woody could bully Tannenbaum via text to get a player brought in. Now, Rex moves down a peg, Bradway moves down a peg, and perhaps having one more experienced hand in the room can help convince Woody to stay out of the room, or at least help talk him out of signing the next Tebow that comes along. It's crucial that Idzik is able to build a moat between his office and Rex and Wooody's offices. Graves, along with whomever Idzik plucks from Seattle next offseason, helps him do that.

[slats]

Idzik is putting together the team he just helped put together in Seattle--roughneck OLine, mauling FA back, pass rushers, and a quarterback eerily similar to the one that Darrell Bevell turned into Russell Wilson. Rex doesn't have a "team he would put together." If he did, he'd have put it together by now.

Rex is not a personnel guy, nor should he pretend to be one. He needs a grown up in the room, and Idzik provides that.

Meanwhile, Idzik is building a ground and pound football team just for Rex.

[T0mShane]

Rex is not a personnel guy, nor should he pretend to be one. He needs a grown up in the room, and Idzik provides that.

Meanwhile, Idzik is building a ground and pound football team just for Rex.

LOL.

Oh, I've dealt with it. IN SPADES.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet....

Dude - we're not Patriots fans ...

[slats]

Pulp Fiction? No one?

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Cu1JMbSLPvc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCu1JMbSLPvc

[kelticwizard]

Again, I disagree.  Why wouldn't he give the GM the right to fire Rex if he thought Rex was part of the problem? 

Because Rex made a very strong start his first two years.  The team lost focus the last two.  After reviewing the situation, Woody decided that Rex deserved another chance with a different GM, then set about to find another GM to work with Rex.

 

Besides, Tanny had already worked with Mangini and survived Mangini's firing.  Now Tanny works with Rex and after a good start things go south again.  This time it was Tannenbaum's turn to go.

 

Woody's decision to keep Rex for now may well have prevented some prime GM candidates from taking the job, since GM's like to select their own coach.  This is balanced, in Woody's mind, by the fact that Rex can be an outstanding coach and he did not want to let him go only to see him blossom with another team.  When push comes to shove, great coaches are harder to find than good general managers.

 

That doesn't mean that Woody is keeping Rex forever, it only means that Woody has decided to give him another chance, based on his strong first two years.

 

Why would Woody also fire Rex if he wasn't sure, and obviously isn't qualified to make that kind of decision?

Woody pays the bills, and decided he was going to do it.  Besides, in any organization major changes should be swift and decisive.  If you're going to replace Tanny, the new man will likely want his own coach, and the chances that the coach he would choose is Rex is small.  So if you are going to bring in a new GM and give him that choice, Woody might as well send Rex packing along with Tanny.  To fire one of the two major factors, then keep the other dangling for several weeks and then let him go then, (which would prevent Rex from lining up another job in the peak hiring season right after the season ends), would be weak, vacillating, and totally wussburger decision making.

 

Woody decided to give Rex another chance, and set about to find a qualified GM to work with him.  Simple as that.

[JoeKlecko]

Woody likes Rex, and wants to see Rex succeed. I'm sure Woody made that clear to all of his potential GM candidates. Rex needs discipline. He's not going to be as effective in the co-boss relationship he had with Tannenbaum, he needs to have a boss. And I think Idzik brings that to the table.

And for his part, Idzik has been building a team that Rex probably would design if he had that capability. His top veteran pickups have been RBs and OL, and his first draft gave Rex two first rounders for his defense, more OL, and a QB who they all certainly hope will be better than Sanchez. Really, ground & pound redux. I know some people want to think that Idzik is counting down the days until he can fire Rex, but none of his actions so far suggest that that's the case. He's putting together exactly the kind of team that Rex has had success with in the (recent) past.

 

I think that's a plausible assessment of the situation, particularly the team that Idzik has started assembling.  It does frighten me more than a little bit, however.  If true, then it means that Woody is perhaps committed to Rex regardless of how this season plays out.  Rex might do much better with a boss, but he'll have to prove it to me before I can believe it.  I'm still in the camp wanting Rex fired.  In addition, I think Idzik ought to put together the best team he can and not just one tailored to Rex's tastes.  I do not believe that a team can any longer win a Lombardi Trophy with a great defense and mediocre offense that mostly runs the ball.  If this is indeed what is happening, then we may be stuck with Rex and Idzik for a good while and have no real shot at winning a Lombardi Trophy.  I truly hope you are wrong about this. 

[JoeKlecko]

I'm not sure his football background is all that solid. I also wanted a personnel guy, a guy who could break down film on his own and make the tough decisions about a player based on his own knowledge and abilities, rather than having to rely on someone else's opinion. That was Tannenbaum's greatest failure. It's why, IMHO, he always paid the most for the consensus FA, and fell in love with one player in the draft. He just had no ability to judge talent on his own, and relied on people inside and outside (the media) the organization for his opinions.

The Graves hire doesn't give me a lot of hope, either.

 

I think it's solid in terms of administration, knowledge of the game, workings of the organization, contracts, etc.  The personnel area is a major question mark.

[JoeKlecko]

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for a GM that's going to be conservative, clean house, and at least set the table for a solid rebuild. A pragmatist, if you will. As bad as the Mets have been, I can take solace in the fact that at least Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson look like they know what they're doing.

 

Exactly.  While I'd prefer someone who was an excellent evaluator of talent and coaching ability who could take us the distance, that might be too much to expect from Woody and this franchise with the history it's had.  This may be only a baby step in the right direction, but at least it does appear to be a positive step in the right direction

[JoeKlecko]

The Graves hire is encouraging because he'll at least provide another credible voice in personnel matters, adding another buffer between Rex/Woody and the actual signing or drafting of a player. Before, Rex and Woody could bully Tannenbaum via text to get a player brought in. Now, Rex moves down a peg, Bradway moves down a peg, and perhaps having one more experienced hand in the room can help convince Woody to stay out of the room, or at least help talk him out of signing the next Tebow that comes along. It's crucial that Idzik is able to build a moat between his office and Rex and Wooody's offices. Graves, along with whomever Idzik plucks from Seattle next offseason, helps him do that.

 

I sure hope that you're right regarding the first bolded portion.  While he is experienced and certainly knows more about personnel evaluation than Rex, Woody or Tanny combined.  I'm not sure his eye for talent is so good, but then, we don't know how much influence Whisenhunt and/or the Phoenix owner had with regard to personnel.

 

I totally agree with the last bolded sentence.  If there's any real hope for this franchise, someone has to convince Woody to stay out of decision making.  He has to hire someone he can trust or learn to trust to run the football operation TOTALLY, and not interfere at all.

[T0mShane]

I sure hope that you're right regarding the first bolded portion. While he is experienced and certainly knows more about personnel evaluation than Rex, Woody or Tanny combined. I'm not sure his eye for talent is so good, but then, we don't know how much influence Whisenhunt and/or the Phoenix owner had with regard to personnel.

I totally agree with the last bolded sentence. If there's any real hope for this franchise, someone has to convince Woody to stay out of decision making. He has to hire someone he can trust or learn to trust to run the football operation TOTALLY, and not interfere at all.

RE: Rex, and whether Woody "likes" him or not, I think that's irrelevant. Woody treated Tannenbaum like his own son, and still chopped his head off when it became expedient. If Woody is looking out over a half-empty stadium in November, and the Jets are losing by 30 to the Saints, he'll tear Rex's deal up on the spot. IMO, Woody wanted to be absolutely sure that Rex wasn't just a victim of Tannenbaum's failures before he threw $8 mil out the window. This year, he'll be able to confirm any doubts he may have about Rex, and he'll save a few bucks in the process.

[kelticwizard]

Woody already had a highly regarded defensive coordinator-one who didn't do well on his first head coaching hire-leave him and win several Super Bowls someplace else.

 

He doesn't want to repeat that, so he gave this one a little extra time.

[JoeKlecko]

Because Rex made a very strong start his first two years.  The team lost focus the last two.  After reviewing the situation, Woody decided that Rex deserved another chance with a different GM, then set about to find another GM to work with Rex.

 

Besides, Tanny had already worked with Mangini and survived Mangini's firing.  Now Tanny works with Rex and after a good start things go south again.  This time it was Tannenbaum's turn to go.

 

Woody's decision to keep Rex for now may well have prevented some prime GM candidates from taking the job, since GM's like to select their own coach.  This is balanced, in Woody's mind, by the fact that Rex can be an outstanding coach and he did not want to let him go only to see him blossom with another team.  When push comes to shove, great coaches are harder to find than good general managers.

 

That doesn't mean that Woody is keeping Rex forever, it only means that Woody has decided to give him another chance, based on his strong first two years.

 

 

 

Woody pays the bills, and decided he was going to do it.  Besides, in any organization major changes should be swift and decisive.  If you're going to replace Tanny, the new man will likely want his own coach, and the chances that the coach he would choose is Rex is small.  So if you are going to bring in a new GM and give him that choice, Woody might as well send Rex packing along with Tanny.  To fire one of the two major factors, then keep the other dangling for several weeks and then let him go then, (which would prevent Rex from lining up another job in the peak hiring season right after the season ends), would be weak, vacillating, and totally wussburger decision making.

 

Woody decided to give Rex another chance, and set about to find a qualified GM to work with him.  Simple as that.

 

I guess we just see this totally differently all the way around.  Yes, Rex started strong, but the team going south is as much on Rex as it is Tanny.  Tanny didn't turn the team into a circus, make all the stupid predictions and comments in press conferences, didn't lose the locker room, didn't wuss out in games settling for FGs instead of going for TDs, and all the other crap that Rex has done.  Woody isn't qualified to make any football-related decisions, especially regarding the capabilites of a HC and CS.  His ego is in the way.  Yes, he pays the bills and has the right to do whatever he wants, but unless he wants to look like a dumb jackass, alienate his fanbase, and waste a lot of money, he needs to realize that he doesn't know what the heck he's doing and look for the best GM he can find, then step back and let that GM do the job as he sees fit.

 

Making a decision to keep Rex, and thus knocking out perhaps the best, most qualified GM candidates is short sighted at the very least, and moronic at worst imo.

 

Unless the first thing the prospective GM candidates asked Woody was whether they could fire Rex, or Woody asked them (or had the executive search firm ask), then he might not have known what they would have done since they declined to even interview.  The new man could have decided to keep or fire Rex.  That was part of the reason for hiring a new GM who was actually qualified and knew what the heck he was doing.  Hiring the best candidate and then letting him decide is not being a wussy.  When the owner of a business hires a new manager or President, the owner doesn't automatically fire his whole staff thinking the new manager will want to bring in his own staff.  He lets that manager make the decisions on who goes and who stays.  The same thing happens in sports.  It is rare that both the GM and HC are fired.  To say that he might as well have gone ahead and fired Rex too is ridiculous and has nothing to do with reality imo.  There might have been candidates who wanted to keep Rex, and then that would knock them out.  The bottom line is that the HC and CS should be the GM's decision, not the owner's.

 

I'm also not sure that I would agree that it's harder to find great coaches than great GMs.  I know that you said "good" GMs, but one ought to be looking for the best leader of the franchise one can get (GM) and not just someone who is good.  Coaches come and go, but if you have a great GM who builds a strong foundation and organization, and keeps the team stocked with great talent, finding a good coach who is good enough to win with that talent shouldn't be that difficult.  Being in the major media market in the country, with an owner who has deep pockets and is willing to spend, and having a great, respected organization that will keep the team well stocked with talent would have HC candidates salivating at the prospect of coming to the Jets.  They would be seen as saviors and it wouldn't take much at all to become the greatest coach in franchise history.

 

It may be as simple as you say, and it certainly appears to be, but that is why I despise Woody and don't really trust that this team will ever get it right as long as he is the owner.  You spend the money to hire an executive search firm to find the best candidate they can, and then hinder them in their search by telling them they have to find someone who agrees with you and will be your puppet.  Absolutely egomaniacal and moronic.  If he doesn't wake up and soon, I hope the bastid goes bankrupt and is forced to sell the franchise.

[slats]

I sure hope that you're right regarding the first bolded portion.  While he is experienced and certainly knows more about personnel evaluation than Rex, Woody or Tanny combined.  I'm not sure his eye for talent is so good, but then, we don't know how much influence Whisenhunt and/or the Phoenix owner had with regard to personnel.

 

I totally agree with the last bolded sentence.  If there's any real hope for this franchise, someone has to convince Woody to stay out of decision making.  He has to hire someone he can trust or learn to trust to run the football operation TOTALLY, and not interfere at all.

My neg rep here was an accident - surfing on an ipad. I generally agree with this post. Although I'm really not sure how much Woody has been involved with the decision making, I do agree he needs to stay out.

I'm hoping Tannenbaum was the problem, and that the problem has been removed.

[kelticwizard]

.... When the owner of a business hires a new manager or President, the owner doesn't automatically fire his whole staff thinking the new manager will want to bring in his own staff.  He lets that manager make the decisions on who goes and who stays.  The same thing happens in sports.

 

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.

[slats]

I think that's a plausible assessment of the situation, particularly the team that Idzik has started assembling. It does frighten me more than a little bit, however. If true, then it means that Woody is perhaps committed to Rex regardless of how this season plays out.

It's been my position all along that Rex's future does not hinge on the the team's record this year. The owner and GM both clearly understand that the roster is in the middle of a rebuild, with the demolition well underway, and the rebuilding part well behind. But that doesn't mean that Rex is safe regardless, either. He'll be judged on how well Idzik believes he's coaching the team, and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.

Rex might do much better with a boss, but he'll have to prove it to me before I can believe it. I'm still in the camp wanting Rex fired. In addition, I think Idzik ought to put together the best team he can and not just one tailored to Rex's tastes. I do not believe that a team can any longer win a Lombardi Trophy with a great defense and mediocre offense that mostly runs the ball. If this is indeed what is happening, then we may be stuck with Rex and Idzik for a good while and have no real shot at winning a Lombardi Trophy. I truly hope you are wrong about this.

I don't think anyone is looking to build a QB-free team. The first draft pick with Rex at the helm was Mark Sanchez. It hasn't worked out to date, but not for lack of trying. Now Idzik comes aboard, and takes a high profile QB in the second round after Rex fires his second OC in two years and brings in a veteran at the position for the first time. They're doing what they can for the offense under their current cap restraints and, frankly, a pretty weak offensive draft.

While it may be the uphill road to Lombardiville, a strong defense and running game can win games in the short term, and even get a team into the playoffs. We've seen that under Rex already. While I'm sure they'll continue to tinker on defense in the future, I'm also sure that they're hoping they're done building the offensive running game now and can focus on the passing game next year. Whether that means building around one of the QBs currently on the roster or not being the biggest question mark.

[T0mShane]

...and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.

Woody: "How much will it cost me?"

Idzik: "Four million."

Woody: "Make it so."

[Sperm Edwards]

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.

 

I actually kind of agree with him in this regard.  You don't say, as the owner, that the new GM has to fire everyone and start over.  That even the pieces the GM wants to keep (or wants to assess for himself) are off-limits and he has to find someone new just for the sake of finding someone new.  I'm sure Idzik is fully aware of the clownish things that have transpired under Rex's watch, since Rex does nothing in low-profile mode.  What he wants to assess for himself - through training camp and more closely watching games - is how much of recent failures is Rex and how much is due to the personnel circumstances he's faced with (that Idzik will be handling now).  Easy - and understandable - for fans to have already made up their minds, but Idzik's job is to take emotion out of it and make a rational decision.  

 

The thing that's funny is that some of the criticisms of Rex (the "gutless" FG or punt decisions, for example) could certainly be rationalized by the personnel on offense, namely Sanchez.  The defense was hardly elite of late, but I can see why Rex - who clearly spends/spent more time with his defense than with his offense - had more faith in that side of the ball on his team.  Punting only seems gutless when you ignore 2 turnovers/game from the QB (not even counting when his fumbles are recovered but still led to punting the ball away).  

 

Truth is I disagree with a lot of things Rex has done.  But I do wonder what would have happened if he had a real QB.  It is quite a handicap.

[kelticwizard]

I actually kind of agree with him in this regard.  You don't say, as the owner, that the new GM has to fire everyone and start over.  That even the pieces the GM wants to keep (or wants to assess for himself) are off-limits and he has to find someone new just for the sake of finding someone new.  I'm sure Idzik is fully aware of the clownish things that have transpired under Rex's watch, since Rex does nothing in low-profile mode.  What he wants to assess for himself - through training camp and more closely watching games - is how much of recent failures is Rex and how much is due to the personnel circumstances he's faced with (that Idzik will be handling now).  Easy - and understandable - for fans to have already made up their minds, but Idzik's job is to take emotion out of it and make a rational decision.  

 

Okay, but if Idzik's job is to asses all aspects of the Jets, including Rex, through training camp and games, then you are basically saying that Woody gave Rex the job for at least this year.  Because I don't think Woody has in mind Idzik saying after preseason game #2, "We need a new head coach now, let's start looking".

 

If Woody gave Idzik the right to fire Rex this year, Idzik or any other general manager would do so and move his own choice in, guaranteed.  That's why, if Woody was willing to let the new GM get rid of Rex, he should have cleared Rex out with Tannenbaum and let the man hook up with another team while the positions are available.  To do anything else would show lack of character.

[JoeKlecko]

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.

 

With the exception of the last sentence, absolute BS imo.  Your first three paragraphs while true, have absolutely nothing to do with the bottom line.  The bottom line is that the owner should not be picking and choosing the CS.  That's the GM's job. Period.  The only person Woody should have fired was Tanny.  He should have then hired a new GM and let that man do his job as he sees fit and keep his own stupid, ignorant ass out of it.

[JoeKlecko]

It's been my position all along that Rex's future does not hinge on the the team's record this year. The owner and GM both clearly understand that the roster is in the middle of a rebuild, with the demolition well underway, and the rebuilding part well behind. But that doesn't mean that Rex is safe regardless, either. He'll be judged on how well Idzik believes he's coaching the team, and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.

I don't think anyone is looking to build a QB-free team. The first draft pick with Rex at the helm was Mark Sanchez. It hasn't worked out to date, but not for lack of trying. Now Idzik comes aboard, and takes a high profile QB in the second round after Rex fires his second OC in two years and brings in a veteran at the position for the first time. They're doing what they can for the offense under their current cap restraints and, frankly, a pretty weak offensive draft.

While it may be the uphill road to Lombardiville, a strong defense and running game can win games in the short term, and even get a team into the playoffs. We've seen that under Rex already. While I'm sure they'll continue to tinker on defense in the future, I'm also sure that they're hoping they're done building the offensive running game now and can focus on the passing game next year. Whether that means building around one of the QBs currently on the roster or not being the biggest question mark.

 

The first pick while Rex was HC being a QB had little or nothing to do with Rex, and more to do with the fact that the Jets did not have a QB.  It was an absolutely horrible choice as well.  Taking an underclassman QB with little starting experience who wasn't a consensus top prospect like Luck or Griffin, throwing him into the fire as the starting QB and not letting him sit behind a quality veteran for a year or two when EVERYONE said that Sanchez needed to sit and when the record for underclassmen QBs in the NFL has been abysmal (not even close to even), was totally stupid and NOT the way to start building a team imo.  We know that Tanny was a totally incompetent, dumbass, but if Rex was part of that decision, then it's the clincher imo that he's not qualified to be a HC.

[JoeKlecko]

Okay, but if Idzik's job is to asses all aspects of the Jets, including Rex, through training camp and games, then you are basically saying that Woody gave Rex the job for at least this year.  Because I don't think Woody has in mind Idzik saying after preseason game #2, "We need a new head coach now, let's start looking".

 

If Woody gave Idzik the right to fire Rex this year, Idzik or any other general manager would do so and move his own choice in, guaranteed.  That's why, if Woody was willing to let the new GM get rid of Rex, he should have cleared Rex out with Tannenbaum and let the man hook up with another team while the positions are available.  To do anything else would show lack of character.

 

You just don't get it, do you?  It's not Woody's place to fire or keep Rex.  That's the GM's decision or at least it should be.    

 

If Woody gave Idzik the option of firing Rex (which I strongly doubt), then I agree that Idzik would most likely have fired Rex, and deservedly so. It is also possible, however, that Idzik may have taken an approach that you suggested in one of your posts in this thread, that being that he didn't want to rush to make a decision.  He surely knew that Rex had said and done some stupid things, but he also knew that Rex is a great DC and was saddled with an incompetent GM, and an incompetent QB coach and OC when he (Rex) was hired, and wanted to give Rex a chance or see if he could develop.  He might not have wanted to make a rushed decision with Rex.  Also, there might not have been any HC candidates available that Idzik wanted, or perhaps he knew that with the team being saddled with Sanchez for another year, tone's contract for another year while he may not even be able to play, cap hell, a lot of dead wood on the roster, few, if any, real offensive playmakers and some other issues that no topflight HC would have even seriously considered taking the Jets' job with a rookie GM.  Conversely, he perhaps also thought that if he cleared out the dead wood this season, drafted some excellent talent this year, reorganized the FO, ushered the circus out of town, and started laying a solid foundation for the future, that heading into next season with a ton of cap space, some topflight young talent on the roster to build around, and having proved himself as a capable GM, that his odds of finding a quality HC during next offseason would be significantly better.  As part of this, he may also have already decided to fire Rex at the end of this season regardless of what happens (barring a miraculous run in the playoffs), and decided to let him take the lumps.  The truth is we just don't know what Idzik was allowed to do by Woody, but the point that remains is that the decision on Rex should have totally been Idzik's and not Woody's.

 

Idzik very well may have said 

[kelticwizard]

With the exception of the last sentence, absolute BS imo.  Your first three paragraphs while true, have absolutely nothing to do with the bottom line.  The bottom line is that the owner should not be picking and choosing the CS.  That's the GM's job. Period. 

You started out arguing in favor of that being the GM's job, and by now have worked yourself over to the position that you have no patience with anyone who does not recognize that idea as a self-evident truth.   You agree that what I posted about the NFL and networking is true, but in the same sentence proclaim it as BS anyway.

 

Come on now.

 

You just don't get it, do you?  It's not Woody's place to fire or keep Rex.  That's the GM's decision or at least it should be.    

Here we go again.

 

If Woody gave Idzik the option of firing Rex (which I strongly doubt), then I agree that Idzik would most likely have fired Rex, and deservedly so. It is also possible, however, that Idzik may have taken an approach that you suggested in one of your posts in this thread, that being that he didn't want to rush to make a decision.

I don't believe I posted that.  I do remember posting that if Idzik was given  the right to fire Rex the first year he would have had to make the decision very shortly after taking office, because I don't think Woody wants to hear after the second preseason game that Idzik wants a new head coach this year.  Basically I meant that if Idzik had the power to fire Rex this year, he would have done so immediately, so we know that Woody didn't give him that power this year.  Next year might be different.

[kelticwizard]

.... He surely knew that Rex had said and done some stupid things, but he also knew that Rex is a great DC and was saddled with an incompetent GM, and an incompetent QB coach and OC when he (Rex) was hired, and wanted to give Rex a chance or see if he could develop.  He might not have wanted to make a rushed decision with Rex.

If Idzik was going to fire Rex this year, he would have had to make the decision within a few days of taking office.  How much time could he possibly have had to see how Rex worked out?

 

 

 

....or perhaps he knew that with the team being saddled with Sanchez for another year, tone's contract for another year while he may not even be able to play, cap hell, a lot of dead wood on the roster, few, if any, real offensive playmakers and some other issues that no topflight HC would have even seriously considered taking the Jets' job with a rookie GM.  Conversely, he perhaps also thought that if he cleared out the dead wood this season, drafted some excellent talent this year, reorganized the FO, ushered the circus out of town, and started laying a solid foundation for the future, that heading into next season with a ton of cap space, some topflight young talent on the roster to build around, and having proved himself as a capable GM, that his odds of finding a quality HC during next offseason would be significantly better.  As part of this, he may also have already decided to fire Rex at the end of this season regardless of what happens (barring a miraculous run in the playoffs)....

I just don't agree with this.  Football people are direct people by nature, they don't go about doing things in such a deceptive, roundabout way.  Being hired as a GM is a big step in anyone's life, and the only thing to do is hit the ground running with as many people you have worked with and know you can get things done with.  This business of maybe I'll wait, this Rex guy might work out or if he doesn't I won't get the blame, etc etc just isn't the way successful sports people operate.

 

I guarantee Idzik had a list of head coach candidates before he took the job.  He's spent his life working in football front offices.  Rex wouldn't be here if Idzik had anything to do with it-not because Idzik doesn't think Rex could be a good head coach, but because he never worked with him before.

 

 

Now one last thing.  The general manager's job is whatever the guy who pays him says it is.  Usually that job includes being able to fire the coach, but not in this case. 

 

By the same token, the head coach usually gets to pick his assistant coaches.  But when Rex came here, even though he was much more highly rated as a head coach candidate than Idzik was rated as a GM candidate, he didn't.  He was stuck with Schottenheimer.  Then when they got rid of Schottenheimer, Rex was given the choice, and he chose Sparano.  When that didn't work out, Rex lost the chance to pick his offensive coordinator again.

 

The job is whatever the man who pays you says it is.

[JoeKlecko]

You started out arguing in favor of that being the GM's job, and by now have worked yourself over to the position that you have no patience with anyone who does not recognize that idea as a self-evident truth.   You agree that what I posted about the NFL and networking is true, but in the same sentence proclaim it as BS anyway.

 

Come on now.

 

Here we go again.

 

 

 

I don't believe I posted that.  I do remember posting that if Idzik was given  the right to fire Rex the first year he would have had to make the decision very shortly after taking office, because I don't think Woody wants to hear after the second preseason game that Idzik wants a new head coach this year.  Basically I meant that if Idzik had the power to fire Rex this year, he would have done so immediately, so we know that Woody didn't give him that power this year.  Next year might be different.

 

No, I haven't.  The problem is that you cannot read.  I have consistently said that is the GM's job period.  I said that those things are true in general, but not in the way that you are trying to apply them.  You are trying to use that as some justification that Woody should have fired Rex, or it has something to do with his character.  Aburd.  I'm done.  Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

[kelticwizard]

..... The problem is that you cannot read.  I have consistently said that is the GM's job period.

You have, but before you would put forth arguments why that is the case.  In your last posts you have simply stated it and became frustrated and confrontational when I disagreed.

 

I said that those things are true in general, but not in the way that you are trying to apply them.  You are trying to use that as some justification that Woody should have fired Rex, or it has something to do with his character. 

Yep, and I still say that if Woody wanted the new GM to have the power to fire Rex, he should have done the decent thing and let Rex go right after the season so he can line up another job when everyone else is. The new GM was not going to keep Rex unless he was buddies with Ryan in the past, and the chances of that are miniscule.

 

Aburd.  I'm done.  Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

Have a nice life.

[slats]

If By the same token, the head coach usually gets to pick his assistant coaches.  But when Rex came here, even though he was much more highly rated as a head coach candidate than Idzik was rated as a GM candidate, he didn't.  He was stuck with Schottenheimer.  Then when they got rid of Schottenheimer, Rex was given the choice, and he chose Sparano.  When that didn't work out, Rex lost the chance to pick his offensive coordinator again.

 

The job is whatever the man who pays you says it is.

I don't know about that. Mornhinweg and Idzik were hired the same day, iirc. We can speculate that Idzik had a hand in the hire, but I'm pretty sure that was ultimately Rex's hire.