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Jets All-Time Underrated / Overrated


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Curtis Martin was definitely an overrated player. I liked Curtis, and he was a great guy to root for, but he was not a playmaker at all. He played behind some great o-lines, and was sooooo slow. That guy got caught from behind every time he got passed the first level. He was a good player, but not great = overrated.

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Besides his 14 yds rushing in the Denver AFCCG he avg 7 td's a year and 4 ypc.. TJ avg more td's a year as a Jet and a better ypc avg.. If we didn't have 2 overtime games in 04 he doesn't win the rushing title by 1 stinking yd.. If it wasn't for his old college coach Paul "3rd and long" Hackett he doesn't make the HOF as a compiler.. HIs first 6 years in the league he avg under 4 ypc half the time. It was only when Hackett became the OC did he keep his avg 4 or better.. He cost the Jets a 1st and a 3rd pick plus a huge contract.. Worth it?? I think not..

 

I love when he does this.  LOL

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bwhahahaha - knew you wouldnt be able to resist and you'd crawl out from your miserable hole to respond. 

 

Greatest.  Jet. Ever.

 

#h8r

Depite having the most carries that's about all the compiler was good for... Vinny has more TD's and yardage then Joe Montana but that doesn't make him a better QB now does it?? Check some Jet RB records

Most TD's in a season Thomas Jones

Most yds in a reg season game TJ

Most yds in a playoff game Freeman

Longest run from LOS TJ 71 yds Freeman 69

Most yds in a Bowl game Matt Snell 121

Best TD to carry ratio Boozer 11 tds on 120 carries

Longest TD run in playoffs S Greene 53 yds

Best career YPC avg Freeman 4.5

Most catches in a single game RB Clark Gaines 17 :animal0029:

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I think that Martin and Pennington are the two most underrated Jets players ever. Maybe even two of the most underrated NFL players ever.

 

don't forget to check your line when your chumming so the chum drifts into where you are set your lines

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Depite having the most carries that's about all the compiler was good for... Vinny has more TD's and yardage then Joe Montana but that doesn't make him a better QB now does it?? Check some Jet RB records

Most TD's in a season Thomas Jones

Most yds in a reg season game TJ

Most yds in a playoff game Freeman

Longest run from LOS TJ 71 yds Freeman 69

Most yds in a Bowl game Matt Snell 121

Best TD to carry ratio Boozer 11 tds on 120 carries

Longest TD run in playoffs S Greene 53 yds

Best career YPC avg Freeman 4.5

Most catches in a single game RB Clark Gaines 17 :animal0029:

 

20050114rr_cmartin_jetsPJ_450.jpg

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I think that Martin and Pennington are the two most underrated Jets players ever. Maybe even two of the most underrated NFL players ever.

 

I'm a big fan of Martin's, but I'm not sure how exactly you could categorize any Hall of Famer as underrated.  That's about as highly rated as an NFL player can be.  As for Pennington, I think I've already made it quite clear why the very last thing he could ever be considered is underrated.  When a team finds itself in it's most QB-needy times, Chadwick was always sure to be at his most useless.  I hope you're just trying to argumentative here because trying to categorize ole Penny boy as one of "the most underrated NFL players ever" has to be one of the single most absurd things I've ever read on these boards, and that's saying a lot.

 

I imagine this post was really meant for trolling, but just in case, I felt the need to address it anyway.

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One thing about Curtis Martin to consider:  How many times was it third and two and the other team knew Curtis was getting the ball but he made the first down anyway?  A high percentage of his carries were like that.

 

It goes down as just a two yard or three yard gain but he got the job done almost all the time.

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Most overrated was Ken O'Brien.

 

He started out looking terrific and we all expected great things as soon as he learns to get rid of the ball.

 

Ten years later, we were still waiting for him to learn.

 

I remember a game when Bill Walsh, QB guru, had just started broadcasting.  The big deal at the time was O'Brien's 250 sacks and how tough he was.

 

In the third quarter, O'Brien got sacked, and Walsh just said disgustedly, "Oh,throw the ball!!"  Walsh continued in an aggravated tone, "You know that 250 sacks that everyone talks about?  Well if he always plays like this at least 100 of those sacks are on him.  O'Brien can't keep hanging onto the ball like this play after play".

 

After that, when talking about O'Brien, Walsh always said things like, "O'Brien plays the game in slow motion", and similar assessments.  And he was right-Kenny just never learned to consistently get the ball out in a reasonable time.

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One thing about Curtis Martin to consider:  How many times was it third and two and the other team knew Curtis was getting the ball but he made the first down anyway?  A high percentage of his carries were like that.

 

It goes down as just a two yard or three yard gain but he got the job done almost all the time.

 

Right, because everyone's memory of Curtis Martin is him creating plays & making a positive gain when facing a wall of defenders.  Sure.  And how many carries did he get the rock on 3rd & long and get 6-10 yards (still short of the 1st down but padding his ypc)? Plenty.  More than enough to balance it out.  If he got 2 yards, it's because the lane to run in was 2 yards deep.  (Hey, I'll give him that; lots of other guys just dance around without hitting the hole).  But pushing the pile wasn't his game & making people miss wasn't his game & breaking tackles wasn't his game & outrunning people wasn't his game.  Once the ball was handed to him, on any given play, he was Mr. Ordinary.  But he did it for a decidedly un-ordinary span of time plus he had a super-human tolerance for pain.  

 

And he most certainly didn't get a 1st down on 3rd & 2 almost all the time as you're alleging.  He got stuffed a LOT if a big enough hole wasn't there.  People make it sound as though defenses had Martin dead to rights time & time again & he just eluded them or ran through them or ran around them, which is patently absurd since he was no playmaker.  He was more or less a better-receiving Thomas Jones who did it for longer (and who was fortunate enough to not start his career with the Cardinals).

 

One of the NFL's all-time most overrated players.  And worst of all, at times he ate up a similar percentage of the team's salary cap that Revis is doing now.  That kind of coin we should be getting Adrian Peterson or Jim Brown or Barry Sanders, not Curtis Martin.  Think when his career is over anyone would lamely say of Adrian Peterson that "he just got the job done" like people do with Martin? Me neither.  

 

Want to credit some players when other teams "knew" Curtis was getting the ball? Credit the OL & FB & blocking-only TEs for opening up a big enough hole over & over when the D knew it was coming.

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Most overrated was Ken O'Brien.

 

He started out looking terrific and we all expected great things as soon as he learns to get rid of the ball.

 

Ten years later, we were still waiting for him to learn.

 

I remember a game when Bill Walsh, QB guru, had just started broadcasting.  The big deal at the time was O'Brien's 250 sacks and how tough he was.

 

In the third quarter, O'Brien got sacked, and Walsh just said disgustedly, "Oh,throw the ball!!"  Walsh continued in an aggravated tone, "You know that 250 sacks that everyone talks about?  Well if he always plays like this at least 100 of those sacks are on him.  O'Brien can't keep hanging onto the ball like this play after play".

 

After that, when talking about O'Brien, Walsh always said things like, "O'Brien plays the game in slow motion", and similar assessments.  And he was right-Kenny just never learned to consistently get the ball out in a reasonable time.

Good point on Kenny he was  also the only Jet QB that never had a rushing TD. Namath had 7 and he could barely walk.. He was such a statue in the pocket pigeons used to crap on him. He never won a playoff game and never learned to throw the ball away which is why he got sacked so often.. Pat Ryan never had the problems he did..

Edited by Savage69
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Most overrated was Ken O'Brien.

 

He started out looking terrific and we all expected great things as soon as he learns to get rid of the ball.

 

Ten years later, we were still waiting for him to learn.

 

I remember a game when Bill Walsh, QB guru, had just started broadcasting.  The big deal at the time was O'Brien's 250 sacks and how tough he was.

 

In the third quarter, O'Brien got sacked, and Walsh just said disgustedly, "Oh,throw the ball!!"  Walsh continued in an aggravated tone, "You know that 250 sacks that everyone talks about?  Well if he always plays like this at least 100 of those sacks are on him.  O'Brien can't keep hanging onto the ball like this play after play".

 

After that, when talking about O'Brien, Walsh always said things like, "O'Brien plays the game in slow motion", and similar assessments.  And he was right-Kenny just never learned to consistently get the ball out in a reasonable time.

O'Brien seemingly always wanted to protect his QB rating, which was also predicated on completion percentage. O'Brien would never give up on a play, because he could not force himself to throw it away.

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I'm offended by the Freeman McNiel thing. Anyway, Pennington was not underrated. Don't get me wrong, he was a great QB when he was healthy, but a season-ending injury every other year got too annoying.

I would also add to the underrated list: Aaron Glenn, Wesley Walker, Abdul Salaam, Mickey Shuler, Jo-Jo Townsell (because I liked his name when I was growing up), Victor Green, James Farrior (who's wearing a few rings right now).

Also, dare I say, Herm Edwards was way underrated as a head coach. I know he gets a lot of flack, but He got paid like half of what most HC's were making and did what no other Jets HC (including Bill Parcells) did, and that was take the Jets to the playoffs three times and bring back hope to the franchise.

Overrated: Johnny Mitchell, Boomer Esiason, DeWayne Robertson, Shonn Greene, Brian Thomas, Neil O'Donnell, Santonio Holmes and Darrell Revis (yes, Darrelle Revis).

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I'm offended by the Freeman McNiel thing. Anyway, Pennington was not underrated. Don't get me wrong, he was a great QB when he was healthy, but a season-ending injury every other year got too annoying.

I would also add to the underrated list: Aaron Glenn, Wesley Walker, Abdul Salaam, Mickey Shuler, Jo-Jo Townsell (because I liked his name when I was growing up), Victor Green, James Farrior (who's wearing a few rings right now).

Also, dare I say, Herm Edwards was way underrated as a head coach. I know he gets a lot of flack, but He got paid like half of what most HC's were making and did what no other Jets HC (including Bill Parcells) did, and that was take the Jets to the playoffs three times and bring back hope to the franchise.

Overrated: Johnny Mitchell, Boomer Esiason, DeWayne Robertson, Shonn Greene, Brian Thomas, Neil O'Donnell, Santonio Holmes and Darrell Revis (yes, Darrelle Revis).

 

 

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tumblr_lp5xwuogjH1ql141xo1_500.gif

 

I could actually see the argument for Revis being considered somewhat overrated even despite being a great player, simply because people still act like he's performed at his (admittedly phenomenal) 2009 level every year, which simply isn't close to true.  Those other two you highlighted though?  Sweet mother of God.

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The footage of Martin, Riggins-like,  in the playoffs in San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh and Denver, carrying his team to playoff victory with a big gain-there isn't any. He had one good playoff game vs. theJags and a decent one vs. the Colts. But on most of those big days Richie Anderson, Cedric Houston or Lamont Jordan played better. Is there any other back in the HoF you can say that about, being the 2nd best option on his teain a playoff game in his prime? He was durable and he was blessed with a stupid coach like Edwards who didn't know any better than to give his top back 300+ carries at exactly the time when having one big back fell out of favor around the NFL. (See also Johnson, Larry) . It was no longer a good idea because of the cap and because it made no sense to have 5 backs active and only one got all the carries. Edwards did that because he had zero imagination about offense(Testaverde and the WCO?) and he didn't want to be questioned.It was a easy decision for a stupid man.  And those last few seasons under him gave Martin the credentials he needed for Canton.

 

Herman Edwards could be the single stupidest man entrusted to coach an NFL team.He was given a loaded team-and proceeded to eff it up.  Rich Kotite at least looked at his firing and figured it was time to do something else.

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I could actually see the argument for Revis being considered somewhat overrated even despite being a great player, simply because people still act like he's performed at his (admittedly phenomenal) 2009 level every year, which simply isn't close to true.  Those other two you highlighted though?  Sweet mother of God.

Yeah, that's right-that's what I said

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The footage of Martin, Riggins-like,  in the playoffs in San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh and Denver, carrying his team to playoff victory with a big gain-there isn't any. He had one good playoff game vs. theJags and a decent one vs. the Colts. But on most of those big days Richie Anderson, Cedric Houston or Lamont Jordan played better. Is there any other back in the HoF you can say that about, being the 2nd best option on his teain a playoff game in his prime? He was durable and he was blessed with a stupid coach like Edwards who didn't know any better than to give his top back 300+ carries at exactly the time when having one big back fell out of favor around the NFL. (See also Johnson, Larry) . It was no longer a good idea because of the cap and because it made no sense to have 5 backs active and only one got all the carries. Edwards did that because he had zero imagination about offense(Testaverde and the WCO?) and he didn't want to be questioned.It was a easy decision for a stupid man.  And those last few seasons under him gave Martin the credentials he needed for Canton.

 

Herman Edwards could be the single stupidest man entrusted to coach an NFL team.He was given a loaded team-and proceeded to eff it up.  Rich Kotite at least looked at his firing and figured it was time to do something else.

Even in that Game he needed 36 carries for 124 yds which put him under his 3.5 season ypc.. Hackett was the guy that let him compile the stats he needed to make the compiler wing of the HOF.. When Martin had not one but 2 ankle sprains he still got the starts.. In our biggest playoff win in 02 against the Colts Jordan had 2 tds and over 100 yds the compiler 67.. It wasn't always Hermie the Horrible though even when he wanted Jordan in Hackett still played Cumar.. Remember the fight with Bishop on the sideline? All you needed to know from the first was a 2001 a game in Oakland we needed to make the playoffs, Jordan got one carry for 46 yds and a TD and Hackett never gave him another carry.. Now that I think about it winning that game gave the Pats the snowy homefield advantage in the playoffs.. The greatest article ever written on the compiler was none other then Sperm Edwards who nailed it 100%.. He should post it every HOF game in Aug.. Or have it tattooed on Jiffs chest even better..

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Even in that Game he needed 36 carries for 124 yds which put him under his 3.5 season ypc.. Hackett was the guy that let him compile the stats he needed to make the compiler wing of the HOF.. When Martin had not one but 2 ankle sprains he still got the starts.. In our biggest playoff win in 02 against the Colts Jordan had 2 tds and over 100 yds the compiler 67.. It wasn't always Hermie the Horrible though even when he wanted Jordan in Hackett still played Cumar.. Remember the fight with Bishop on the sideline? All you needed to know from the first was a 2001 a game in Oakland we needed to make the playoffs, Jordan got one carry for 46 yds and a TD and Hackett never gave him another carry.. Now that I think about it winning that game gave the Pats the snowy homefield advantage in the playoffs.. The greatest article ever written on the compiler was none other then Sperm Edwards who nailed it 100%.. He should post it every HOF game in Aug.. Or have it tattooed on Jiffs chest even better..

Minor but important quibble-Edwards was the head coach, not merely the head coach who cared mostly about the defense. To say he wanted to play one back over another but wasn't allowed by the OC is really remarkable. Kinda has some implications for our current HC. Rex Ryan is also defense first oriented. Now Ryan is much smarter than Edwards, but like Edwards and his dad he finds it easier to let somebody else make the hard decisions on offense. It's one thing to delegate quite another to leave underlings to their own devices. And weak HCs do that because if gives them plausible deniablity if it goes to poop.Job preservaion is the firsrt order of business.  Which is why Schitty and Sparano and Hackett before them walked the plank before the HC. It's good to have a HC who knows one side of the ball, but it's  bad thing if he doesn't grasp he has to be part of the other side of the ball and make some decisions as well. And this has been a problem for the Jets since the day Bellicheat walked out the door.

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Ryan is much smarter than Edwards, but like Edwards and his dad he finds it easier to let somebody else make the hard decisions on offense. It's one thing to delegate quite another to leave underlings to their own devices. And weak HCs do that because if gives them plausible deniablity if it goes to poop.Job preservaion is the firsrt order of business.  Which is why Schitty and Sparano and Hackett before them walked the plank before the HC. It's good to have a HC who knows one side of the ball, but it's  bad thing if he doesn't grasp he has to be part of the other side of the ball and make some decisions as well. And this has been a problem for the Jets since the day Bellicheat walked out the door.

 

I demand that you do a decision-by-decision comparison of how Rex is smarter than Edwards. Seriously. Yes, Rex delegates to the OCs, but he decided to keep Schitty and hired a moron named Tony Sporano, who insisted to keep Sanchez as the starter, not even give Tebow a chance, and on Thanksgiving, had Shonn Greene keep running the ball right at Vince Wilfork and expected to get yards. Rex also insists on keeping Mark Sanchez and stating that he has confidence in him. Also, after Darrelle Revis got injured last year, didn't Rex say that he would put Revis on injured reserve so that he would be able to play in the Superbowl??

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I demand that you do a decision-by-decision comparison of how Rex is smarter than Edwards. Seriously. Yes, Rex delegates to the OCs, but he decided to keep Schitty and hired a moron named Tony Sporano, who insisted to keep Sanchez as the starter, not even give Tebow a chance, and on Thanksgiving, had Shonn Greene keep running the ball right at Vince Wilfork and expected to get yards. Rex also insists on keeping Mark Sanchez and stating that he has confidence in him. Also, after Darrelle Revis got injured last year, didn't Rex say that he would put Revis on injured reserve so that he would be able to play in the Superbowl??

How do you ask Vinny Testaverde to run the WCO? How do you keep Pennington on the bench when in many ways, despite a weak arm,  he's the perfect WCO QB? I could go on ALL DAY. Get yourself a copy of the Quincy Carter Jets/Ravens debacle. Edwards should've had his headset ripped off and been escorted to his car on that game alone. Every so often NFLN replays it. Take a peek and get back to me.Watching an NFL HC hop around like a schoolgirl at a Taylor Swift show while the clock goes to hell was beytond embarrassment (something in fairness Ryan has done) I don't hold Ryan up as a great coach, simply better because Herman Edwards is an imbecile inexplicably promoted ahead of more competent people like Marv Lewis and John Fox. Despite a lifetime in football, Edwards had such a poor grasp of clock management he had Dick Curl do that, and even then he still managed to screw the pooch every time.

Edited by Bugg
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Anyone who thinks Freeman was over rated needs to cover womens tennis for a living.

 

I agree.  He had injury problems throughout his career so that's why he only started 16 games once.  That's not exactly his fault.  If he had stayed as healthy as CuMar, McNeill would have been the greatest RB in Jets history hands down, and one of the top back in NFLhistory.  

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A few notes:

1. Anyone who recognizes as, and will refer to Boomer Esiason as "horrendous" is alright with me.

2. Rob Moore was tissue-paper soft. Hard to blame him, having watched Al Toon's brain melt down.

3. Bart Scott criticism is based on his contract. If you exclude that factor, he was a really nice acquisition. Why Bart will be remembered poorly is because of 1. the contract and 2. He had a big mouth even as he declined. They'll get you for that.

4. It's harsh to criticize Kenny O. That dude got the living hell beat out of him. Put him on the 49ers and put Montana here and those two legacies could be reversed. Maybe.

5. My list--

Most Overrated Jets Ever:

1. Santonio Holmes-- because of the Super Bowl MVP, and because he was a Steeler, many Jets fans get hardcore revisionist when talking about him. In seven seasons, he's had one 1,000 yard season, and has never had 80 catches, yet he's talked about like he was elite at any point. Mike Wallace was instantly better than him.

2. Kerry Rhodes-- A few nice picks and 4,000,000 missed and deferred tackles. The amount of delusion amongst his backers was borderline creepy.

Most Underrated Jets Ever:

1. Lavernues Coles-- Tough as balls, played hard for bad QBs, and competed like a mofo.

2. James Hasty-- Same as Coles.

3. Jerricho Cotchery-- Same as Hasty and Coles.

4. Mickey Shuler-- See above.

5. Brett Favre-- As much as you hate him, he's the second best QB to ever wear the uniform.

 

Agreed

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Let the games begin. :tongue:

 

Chad was the Patriots' personal bitch for his entire career, and was a complete joke in just about every game that mattered most.  For the love of God, Mark freakin' Sanchez has been more useful to the Jets both in the postseason and against their biggest rival, even accounting for the buttfumble.  In spite of all of this, Chad was constantly praised for everything the team did right no matter how little he contributed to it, while everyone else was made a scapegoat for all of his pathetic failures (his own infuriating weekly self-evaluations included amongst this).

 

There is no more perfect example in the world for this than anyone actually trying to use that 2004 Steelers game as somehow proof of him being anything other than completely useless in that game.  I mean, even if Brien hits one of those kicks, the Jets offense still would have only scored 6 freakin' points in the game.  That still isn't enough to offset the fact that he threw an interception that put the Steelers in scoring range and led to a TD, which means Chad's contribution to the game was anywhere from -4 to -1 points depending on how generous you want to be.  Bottom line, Chad was the #1 reason the Jets lost that game, followed closely behind by Herm, with Doug Brien a distant third, considering even with those misses he still contributed more to the game than either of those dipsh*ts.  If anything, Chad is MASSIVELY overrated, as he was really just an awful QB who played like too big of a pussy for his stats to get as bad as a guy like Sanchez's.

 

Ah, that felt good.  It had been way too long.

 

Glad you enjoyed it, but I think you're wrong.  Chad never had a strong arm, but he had a very accurate arm and either still holds or is in the top 2-3 for accuracy and QBR for a season, threw a very catchable ball, was very smart, and an excellent leader.  He had the misfortune of playing for boobs at HC, OC, was physically brittle, and didn't have a lot of weapons to throw to either.

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Most underrated is hands down Curtis Martin (just as he was his entire career).  He's the best player in franchise history and gets treated by 90% of Jets fans as a JAG.  Makes zero sense.

 

OMG.  ROFLMAO.  He is easily the most OVERRATED player in Jets' history.  He left LOTS of yard on the field every game.  Even his own mother criticized him for not running hard enough, and he agreed with her.  If you looked at him sternly, he went down or out of bounds.  He was a nice back who did everything well and a class act, but not the caliber of player to build one's offense around.

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