Jets All-Time Underrated / Overrated

[JoeKlecko]

Fixed.

 

Bravo!!!  Well done.  I totally agree.

[JoeKlecko]

Besides his 14 yds rushing in the Denver AFCCG he avg 7 td's a year and 4 ypc.. TJ avg more td's a year as a Jet and a better ypc avg.. If we didn't have 2 overtime games in 04 he doesn't win the rushing title by 1 stinking yd.. If it wasn't for his old college coach Paul "3rd and long" Hackett he doesn't make the HOF as a compiler.. HIs first 6 years in the league he avg under 4 ypc half the time. It was only when Hackett became the OC did he keep his avg 4 or better.. He cost the Jets a 1st and a 3rd pick plus a huge contract.. Worth it?? I think not..

 

Let's also not forget how he disappeared in big games, and that's also when he chose to make his rare fumbles.  He definitely was not a great player.  Great players rise to the occasion.  Curtis shrank and crawled away.

[JoeKlecko]

One thing about Curtis Martin to consider:  How many times was it third and two and the other team knew Curtis was getting the ball but he made the first down anyway?  A high percentage of his carries were like that.

 

It goes down as just a two yard or three yard gain but he got the job done almost all the time.

 To answer your question, not many. For RB who was supposed to be so great and for a coach who preached execution and not beating yourselves, the Jets could rarely run the ball when they needed/wanted to.  They couldn't close out games, couldn't pick up key first downs, mostly because of Mr. slow feet CuMar who would fall down or run out of bounds.

[JoeKlecko]

The footage of Martin, Riggins-like,  in the playoffs in San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh and Denver, carrying his team to playoff victory with a big gain-there isn't any. He had one good playoff game vs. theJags and a decent one vs. the Colts. But on most of those big days Richie Anderson, Cedric Houston or Lamont Jordan played better. Is there any other back in the HoF you can say that about, being the 2nd best option on his teain a playoff game in his prime? He was durable and he was blessed with a stupid coach like Edwards who didn't know any better than to give his top back 300+ carries at exactly the time when having one big back fell out of favor around the NFL. (See also Johnson, Larry) . It was no longer a good idea because of the cap and because it made no sense to have 5 backs active and only one got all the carries. Edwards did that because he had zero imagination about offense(Testaverde and the WCO?) and he didn't want to be questioned.It was a easy decision for a stupid man.  And those last few seasons under him gave Martin the credentials he needed for Canton.

 

Herman Edwards could be the single stupidest man entrusted to coach an NFL team.He was given a loaded team-and proceeded to eff it up.  Rich Kotite at least looked at his firing and figured it was time to do something else.

 

This times 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[JoeKlecko]

Even in that Game he needed 36 carries for 124 yds which put him under his 3.5 season ypc.. Hackett was the guy that let him compile the stats he needed to make the compiler wing of the HOF.. When Martin had not one but 2 ankle sprains he still got the starts.. In our biggest playoff win in 02 against the Colts Jordan had 2 tds and over 100 yds the compiler 67.. It wasn't always Hermie the Horrible though even when he wanted Jordan in Hackett still played Cumar.. Remember the fight with Bishop on the sideline? All you needed to know from the first was a 2001 a game in Oakland we needed to make the playoffs, Jordan got one carry for 46 yds and a TD and Hackett never gave him another carry.. Now that I think about it winning that game gave the Pats the snowy homefield advantage in the playoffs.. The greatest article ever written on the compiler was none other then Sperm Edwards who nailed it 100%.. He should post it every HOF game in Aug.. Or have it tattooed on Jiffs chest even better..

 

I'd like to see that article, and am loving what the two of you are posting today.

[Obrien2Toon]

3rd and 10, I have to shut down the other teams #1 option, I'm going Glenn over Revis every time. Revis was better all around, supporting run, tackling, etc. but Glenn was better cover guy.

[JoeKlecko]

How do you ask Vinny Testaverde to run the WCO? How do you keep Pennington on the bench when in many ways, despite a weak arm,  he's the perfect WCO QB? I could go on ALL DAY. Get yourself a copy of the Quincy Carter Jets/Ravens debacle. Edwards should've had his headset ripped off and been escorted to his car on that game alone. Every so often NFLN replays it. Take a peek and get back to me.Watching an NFL HC hop around like a schoolgirl at a Taylor Swift show while the clock goes to hell was beytond embarrassment (something in fairness Ryan has done) I don't hold Ryan up as a great coach, simply better because Herman Edwards is an imbecile inexplicably promoted ahead of more competent people like Marv Lewis and John Fox. Despite a lifetime in football, Edwards had such a poor grasp of clock management he had Dick Curl do that, and even then he still managed to screw the pooch every time.

 

Amen!  How many HCs are so clueless about the clock that they even have to hire a clock management coach?

[Bleedin Green]

Glad you enjoyed it, but I think you're wrong.  Chad never had a strong arm, but he had a very accurate arm and either still holds or is in the top 2-3 for accuracy and QBR for a season, threw a very catchable ball, was very smart, and an excellent leader.  He had the misfortune of playing for boobs at HC, OC, was physically brittle, and didn't have a lot of weapons to throw to either.

 

Ah yes, the classic Pro-Pennington mantra; a bunch of stuff that's trying to give him credit for something that can't be argued about simply because it has no statistical or factual basis, yet has nothing to do with his on-field performance (i.e., smarts and leadership, which we can get into a whole separate conversation about why that's a load of crap), followed up with a list of excuses why his constant failures were apparently not his fault.  Interesting how supposedly without any weapons, his WRs repeatedly had more success with other QBs than they did with Chad.  Hell, twice we saw WRs immediately become Pro Bowlers the moment they had a different QB (and not particularly good ones either).  His completion percentage and QB rating was nothing more than proof positive of what a spineless little bitch he was.  I can't think of a single other QB in history who was so unbelievably infamous for checking down short of the first down time and time again, just in order to make sure he got another completion, rather than actually try to make a play that would benefit his team.  Sure, a 4 yard dump-off is pretty for the comp % and QBR, but it doesn't mean dick when doing it on a 3rd and 8.

 

In the end, the fact of the matter is that even if we assume your points are all correct, absolutely none of that gives even the slightest bit of reasoning to explain why he was so completely useless in nearly every game he played against the Patriots, as well as in the vast majority of the other big games he played in his career.  4 career playoff appearances that all ended with laughably horrible performances from Chad.  Oakland in 02, Pittsburgh in 04, New England in 06, Baltimore in 08... all just awful.  In every single instance he could not have been more useless to his respective team.  I mean for crying out loud, Mark freakin' Sanchez matched Pennington's career playoff win total in just his rookie year while getting further along than Penny boy ever did in the process.

[The Crusher]

Just from his silly extension Sanchez could be considered for the overrated argument.

[JustInFudge]

OMG.  ROFLMAO.  He is easily the most OVERRATED player in Jets' history.  He left LOTS of yard on the field every game.  Even his own mother criticized him for not running hard enough, and he agreed with her.  If you looked at him sternly, he went down or out of bounds.  He was a nice back who did everything well and a class act, but not the caliber of player to build one's offense around.

 

Bwahahahahaha - I've now heard it all.  Curtis Martin avoided contact.  lmfao

 

Jets fans and stuff.  

[kelticwizard]

Bwahahahahaha - I've now heard it all.  Curtis Martin avoided contact.  lmfao

 

Jets fans and stuff.  

 

                                                             ↑↑↑ +1 ↑↑↑

[kelticwizard]

Trying to move this into rationality, remember that Curtis Martin was obtained and greatly appreciated by Bill Parcells, whose philosphy was to install a tough, workhorse back and run him at the other team repeatedly.  He wanted one back to do this, and the guy would be a leader on the offense.  Parcells wanted no part of platoons at RB.

[Savage69]

Trying to move this into rationality, remember that Curtis Martin was obtained and greatly appreciated by Bill Parcells, whose philosphy was to install a tough, workhorse back and run him at the other team repeatedly.  He wanted one back to do this, and the guy would be a leader on the offense.  Parcells wanted no part of platoons at RB.

Yet when he won the Bowl in 86 with the Giants he had Ottis Anderson,Maurice Carthon and Joe Morris.. Martin was never a leader he said around 3 sentences a month.. RB's that were leaders on the Jets were Snell,Boozer,Freeman TJ and LT..

[Matt39]

Let's also not forget how he disappeared in big games, and that's also when he chose to make his rare fumbles.  He definitely was not a great player.  Great players rise to the occasion.  Curtis shrank and crawled away.

 

Martin's overrated as an all time great, but lets not have a selective memory either. His best game as a pro probably came in the playoffs.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199701050nwe.htm

[Sperm Edwards]

I demand that you do a decision-by-decision comparison of how Rex is smarter than Edwards. Seriously. Yes, Rex delegates to the OCs, but he decided to keep Schitty and hired a moron named Tony Sporano, who insisted to keep Sanchez as the starter, not even give Tebow a chance, and on Thanksgiving, had Shonn Greene keep running the ball right at Vince Wilfork and expected to get yards. Rex also insists on keeping Mark Sanchez and stating that he has confidence in him. Also, after Darrelle Revis got injured last year, didn't Rex say that he would put Revis on injured reserve so that he would be able to play in the Superbowl??

 

If the choice is running Greene up the gut or letting Sanchez drop back to attempt a pass, the former is the better decision on any given play.  Tebow is awful and does not deserve to start.  Of the GM and owner and Rex and Sparano, I'd say Rex & Sparano seem the least likely to be behind the Tebow acquisition.  Sanchez may have been the best QB on the team.  That was Tannenbaum's doing not Rex's, since Rex was not the GM.  Also I never got the impression that retaining (or extending) Schottenheimer was Rex's call until he "resigned" as OC. 

 

 

The lists for Edwards are much lengthier than your list for Ryan, and I'm a fan who would have been fine with Idzik replacing Rex this year.

 

Edwards brought in Paul Hackett, who had been fired from his 2nd job in a row.  First for his laughable handling of the Chiefs offense, and then got fired after he destroyed USC's program in just a few short years.  They immediately regained their prominence as one of the nation's top programs almost immediately following Hackett's departure.  

 

Edwards was the one who moved Shaun Ellis to DT, which created a gaping hole at DE, which led to Bradway passing up on Ed Reed (when we also had a need at safety) for Bryan Thomas.  He also had us bring in non-cover-corners & a lousy safety he knew for his garbage defense so we gave out big contracts to Abraham and Beasley and Damien Robinson and Sam Garnes because they were better fits.  Then he tells his GM to go get Sam Cowart for a kagillion dollars (after blowing out his knee) and then put him into a defense he was ill-suited for before the injury.  

 

At least Greene was healthy when Rex kept running him up the gut.  Edwards would do that with his me-first RB Martin while he had 2 sprained ankles and took the team down with them so Curtis could get his carries.  

 

He had a ready-made, veteran playoff team handed to him.  And he completely ripped it apart to install HIS preferred offense (WCO) and HIS preferred defense (Tampa-2).  You do that crap when you're rebuilding, not when you have a championship-caliber team already at your disposal.

 

The guy was such a know-nothing-plus-is-too-stupid-to-learn imbecile he needed to have his OC - in year 5 as a Jets HC - tell him whether to take or decline a penalty -- right on camera for all to see.  He would lie & throw his own players under the bus (Quincy Carter most notably, but he did it when he was in KC as well with Trent Green) to hide his incompetence (not realizing he was caught on camera on the sideline). Hell, the guy needed a "clock management coach" in such a high profile way that every Jets fan knew who "Dick Curl" was.  Learning nothing after 5 years here, he took Curl with him to KC where he then wrecked another solid team and their 30ppg offense.

 

While on Hard Knocks with veterans openly ignoring or making fun of him, instead of taking care of things he would ramble on about stupid topics like the reason he keeps Fig Newtons in his fridge and offers them to anyone who walks in.  I mean, Rex acts like a fool, but all the players know underneath that he certainly knows his X's and O's at least on one side of the ball.  Herm, on the other hand, was just a clown who was a clown.  

 

Rex may have "outsourced" the offense (and he did).  But Edwards outsourced the offense AND DEFENSE to two people who were as horrible of a fit for the personnel as they were stubborn about force-feeding their ill-fitting scheme onto the roster handed to them.  And Edwards was all for it.

 

Rex goes overboard with his public support of his players.  I feel that too many feel that there are little consequences for bad behavior or bad play as a result.  But he's a good guy at heart.  Edwards is a dirtbag who would hang his own players out to dry to protect his own ass.  Just a douchebag non-leader whose douchebagginess was only outdone by his incompetence and obvious lack of intelligence.

 

A mindless person who wasn't even qualified to be a coordinator on either side of the ball.  At least Rex is good at SOMETHING and on that side of the ball is capable of outsmarting even "brainy" opposing coaches like Belichick.  Conversely, Edwards was good at absolutely nothing except acting as clownish as Rex.   I wanted to write more, but I'm fairly certain no one's even reading this much as it is.

[BurnleyJet]

Yet when he won the Bowl in 86 with the Giants he had Ottis Anderson,Maurice Carthon and Joe Morris.. Martin was never a leader he said around 3 sentences a month.. RB's that were leaders on the Jets were Snell,Boozer,Freeman TJ and LT..

Anderson was a back up RB with the Giants in 86. He only had 75 carries. Carthon was a F.B

Joe Morris was the feature back. Parcells loved feature backs. Morris had 1500 yards and 21 TD's in 86. That's about as feature as your going to get.

[Savage69]

Anderson was a back up RB with the Giants in 86. He only had 75 carries. Carthon was a F.B

Joe Morris was the feature back. Parcells loved feature backs. Morris had 1500 yards and 21 TD's in 86. That's about as feature as your going to get.

He had 21 tds the year before in 85 he had 14 in 86.. He was special those 2 years..

[Bugg]

If the choice is running Greene up the gut or letting Sanchez drop back to attempt a pass, the former is the better decision on any given play.  Tebow is awful and does not deserve to start.  Of the GM and owner and Rex and Sparano, I'd say Rex & Sparano seem the least likely to be behind the Tebow acquisition.  Sanchez may have been the best QB on the team.  That was Tannenbaum's doing not Rex's, since Rex was not the GM.  Also I never got the impression that retaining (or extending) Schottenheimer was Rex's call until he "resigned" as OC. 

 

 

The lists for Edwards are much lengthier than your list for Ryan, and I'm a fan who would have been fine with Idzik replacing Rex this year.

 

Edwards brought in Paul Hackett, who had been fired from his 2nd job in a row.  First for his laughable handling of the Chiefs offense, and then got fired after he destroyed USC's program in just a few short years.  They immediately regained their prominence as one of the nation's top programs almost immediately following Hackett's departure.  

 

Edwards was the one who moved Shaun Ellis to DT, which created a gaping hole at DE, which led to Bradway passing up on Ed Reed (when we also had a need at safety) for Bryan Thomas.  He also had us bring in non-cover-corners & a lousy safety he knew for his garbage defense so we gave out big contracts to Abraham and Beasley and Damien Robinson and Sam Garnes because they were better fits.  Then he tells his GM to go get Sam Cowart for a kagillion dollars (after blowing out his knee) and then put him into a defense he was ill-suited for before the injury.  

 

At least Greene was healthy when Rex kept running him up the gut.  Edwards would do that with his me-first RB Martin while he had 2 sprained ankles and took the team down with them so Curtis could get his carries.  

 

He had a ready-made, veteran playoff team handed to him.  And he completely ripped it apart to install HIS preferred offense (WCO) and HIS preferred defense (Tampa-2).  You do that crap when you're rebuilding, not when you have a championship-caliber team already at your disposal.

 

The guy was such a know-nothing-plus-is-too-stupid-to-learn imbecile he needed to have his OC - in year 5 as a Jets HC - tell him whether to take or decline a penalty -- right on camera for all to see.  He would lie & throw his own players under the bus (Quincy Carter most notably, but he did it when he was in KC as well with Trent Green) to hide his incompetence (not realizing he was caught on camera on the sideline). Hell, the guy needed a "clock management coach" in such a high profile way that every Jets fan knew who "Dick Curl" was.  Learning nothing after 5 years here, he took Curl with him to KC where he then wrecked another solid team and their 30ppg offense.

 

While on Hard Knocks with veterans openly ignoring or making fun of him, instead of taking care of things he would ramble on about stupid topics like the reason he keeps Fig Newtons in his fridge and offers them to anyone who walks in.  I mean, Rex acts like a fool, but all the players know underneath that he certainly knows his X's and O's at least on one side of the ball.  Herm, on the other hand, was just a clown who was a clown.  

 

Rex may have "outsourced" the offense (and he did).  But Edwards outsourced the offense AND DEFENSE to two people who were as horrible of a fit for the personnel as they were stubborn about force-feeding their ill-fitting scheme onto the roster handed to them.  And Edwards was all for it.

 

Rex goes overboard with his public support of his players.  I feel that too many feel that there are little consequences for bad behavior or bad play as a result.  But he's a good guy at heart.  Edwards is a dirtbag who would hang his own players out to dry to protect his own ass.  Just a douchebag non-leader whose douchebagginess was only outdone by his incompetence and obvious lack of intelligence.

 

A mindless person who wasn't even qualified to be a coordinator on either side of the ball.  At least Rex is good at SOMETHING and on that side of the ball is capable of outsmarting even "brainy" opposing coaches like Belichick.  Conversely, Edwards was good at absolutely nothing except acting as clownish as Rex.   I wanted to write more, but I'm fairly certain no one's even reading this much as it is.

Edwards took over a team that from 1998 went to the AFC title game, got to 8-8 with Ray Lucas and missed the playoffs by a last day loss in the 3 years before he got here. A smart guy would come in, evaluated what he had that worked and what didn't and then tweaked  and supplemented that.This was not a total rebuild job, rather a retool.  Instead Edwards walked in and tore up the offense and defense completely.   Ryan is myopic about the defense, but at least he's competent about that. Edwards was a babbling fool who had never run anything. So he tried to impress everyone with his brilliant WCO and Cover Who, talent on hand be damned.Edwards talked about Tampa like the shelves were collapsing under the weight of the Lombardis he had earned. At least Ryan could point to contribtuing to one Lombardi.

[slats]

Most Underrated Jets Ever:

1. Lavernues Coles-- Tough as balls, played hard for bad QBs, and competed like a mofo.

2. James Hasty-- Same as Coles.

3. Jerricho Cotchery-- Same as Hasty and Coles.

4. Mickey Shuler-- See above.

5. Brett Favre-- As much as you hate him, he's the second best QB to ever wear the uniform.

I don't think anyone who's been a Jet fan for a long time underrates any of those guys.

Except for Favre, who has no business at all being on that list. Yeah, he was pretty good for nine games, but that's about it. If that size sample is good enough for Favre, then Johnny Mitchell must qualify as the greatest Jet ever.

[kelticwizard]

...... Martin was never a leader he said around 3 sentences a month.. ..

 

Might not have been a leader in the clubhouse but he was always there on the field.  Parcells' plan for offense consisted of a big front line, a tough feature back who takes almost all the carries, and a short passing game.  It was tailored for success in the Northeast, which has plenty of cold, windy weather late in the season and in the playoffs, but no domed stadiums.

 

In fact, when Parcells left the Jets and interviewed at Tampa Bay, there was speculation if he could even build an offense suitable for a warm weather city.

 

To that extent, Martin was a leader.  Parcells loved Martin.

[JoeKlecko]

Ah yes, the classic Anti-Pennington mantra; a bunch of stuff that's trying to blame him for all the Jets' failures during his time with the team and for his injuries, when the latter is something he had no control over, especially with an OL that sucked balls.  something that can't be argued about simply because it has no statistical or factual basis, yet has nothing to do with his on-field performance (i.e., smarts and leadership, which we can get into a whole separate conversation about why that's a load of crap), followed up with a list of excuses why his constant failures were apparently not his fault.  Interesting how supposedly without any weapons, his WRs repeatedly had more success with other QBs than they did with Chad.  Hell, twice we saw WRs immediately become Pro Bowlers the moment they had a different QB (and not particularly good ones either).  His completion percentage and QB rating was nothing more than proof positive of what a spineless little bitch he was.  I can't think of a single other QB in history who was so unbelievably infamous for checking down short of the first down time and time again, just in order to make sure he got another completion, rather than actually try to make a play that would benefit his team.  Sure, a 4 yard dump-off is pretty for the comp % and QBR, but it doesn't mean dick when doing it on a 3rd and 8.

 

In the end, the fact of the matter is that even if we assume your points are all correct, absolutely none of that gives even the slightest bit of reasoning to explain why he was so completely useless in nearly every game he played against the Patriots, as well as in the vast majority of the other big games he played in his career.  4 career playoff appearances that all ended with laughably horrible performances from Chad.  Oakland in 02, Pittsburgh in 04, New England in 06, Baltimore in 08... all just awful.  In every single instance he could not have been more useless to his respective team.  I mean for crying out loud, Mark freakin' Sanchez matched Pennington's career playoff win total in just his rookie year while getting further along than Penny boy ever did in the process.

 

I started to "fix" that load of horse sh*t above, but decided it wasn't worth my time or effort.  I can see there's little point in discussing this with you your hatred for him seems so complete, you are so irrational on this subject, and it's obvious you're pinning all the Jets' failures during that time on him.

 

I'll just say that to even insinuate that he checked down just for his completion percentage and/or QBR is asinine and totally absurd and totally lacking any factual basis.  To say that he was a spineless little bitch is much worse.  Chad Pennington has more character, class and guts than you could ever hope to have. He gave his all for the Jets, played through pain, worked his ass off to rehabilitate and play the best he could for the team.  Was he perfect?  No, but he deserves respect.  If he was so awful and useless, how did he manage to have such an excellent year for the Dolphins at the end of his career?

[JoeKlecko]

Bwahahahahaha - I've now heard it all.  Curtis Martin avoided contact.  lmfao

 

Jets fans and stuff.  

 

You either are a troll, are blind or know NOTHING about the game.  CuMar NEVER fought for extra yardage, he never threw a shoulder into anyone.  He frequently ran out of bounds to avoid taking a big hit.  I've never seen another RB in 50 years of watching the NFL that went down as easily as CuMar.  It is a known fact admitted by even the most ardent, yet rational (something obviously you aren't) CuMar fans that this is true.  The offseason before his best year ever, his own mother criticized him for not running hard enough and he admitted that she was right.  The next season was the ONLY season that he ran hard, and he had his best season.  CuMar was all about staying healthy so he could stay on the filed and compile stats.

 

To try to claim otherwise and laugh, just shows your total ignorance of the game, what a fan boy of his you are, and how little your opinion/perspective matters regarding him.  You need to stop sucking his dick and go back and look at game film of his whole career.

[Bleedin Green]

I started to "fix" that load of horse sh*t above, but decided it wasn't worth my time or effort.  I can see there's little point in discussing this with you your hatred for him seems so complete, you are so irrational on this subject, and it's obvious you're pinning all the Jets' failures during that time on him.

 

I'll just say that to even insinuate that he checked down just for his completion percentage and/or QBR is asinine and totally absurd and totally lacking any factual basis.  To say that he was a spineless little bitch is much worse.  Chad Pennington has more character, class and guts than you could ever hope to have. He gave his all for the Jets, played through pain, worked his ass off to rehabilitate and play the best he could for the team.  Was he perfect?  No, but he deserves respect.  If he was so awful and useless, how did he manage to have such an excellent year for the Dolphins at the end of his career?

 

Ah yes, the never ending Pro-Pennington mantra, there's always some reason why a coherent argument can never be put into his favor regarding his on-field performances, perhaps beyond a list of excuses why his constant failures somehow weren't his own fault.  I'm not going to deny for a second that I have absolutely no love lost for Pennington, but the difference is in fact the exact opposite of your last point in your first paragraph.  If anything, it's that I'm not so foolish as to constantly feel the need to pin all failures on one person.  Which is the exact reason why Herm Edwards being an incompetent moron doesn't magically excuse Chad's terrible performances.  Or why Doug Brien missing a field goal doesn't make Chad blameless when leading the offense to 3 points in a game.  I promise you, if anyone around here starting rambling on about how a boob like Edwards was so underrated and blameless for his repeated failures, I'd be more than happy to tell them why they were wrong too.

 

Your second paragraph does nothing but loudly scream that you are the one who seems incapable of having any rationality on this topic.  I mean come on, it sounds like he is your long lost lover with that crap.  The whole point is that people like you constantly feel the need to go on about how he is supposedly so much greater off the field than everyone else in the NFL, which couldn't be less meaningful for how useless he was on it.  It also couldn't be more hilariously ironic for you to talk about "totally lacking any factual basis" in one sentence and then to go on and spew that completely unfounded nonsense.  I've never seen a player in the NFL who constantly made excuses for his own poor performances or refused to ever shoulder the blame when his team failed, even when he was the primary culprit.  Chad was infamous for spewing his "outside of one or two passes" bullsh*t every single time he had an awful game.

 

As far as Chad's so-called "excellent season" for the Dolphins?  I'm sorry if I'm not heaping praise on a guy for making the playoffs on tiebreakers only thanks to the division's two far superior QBs both suffering significant injuries (ironic, I know).   Even if we simply dismiss that, let's not forget that it led to one of the most hilariously awful QB performances seen in the playoffs, as our very own Rex Ryan had his Ravens defense make Chad look like a complete and utter joke, giving Chad his third consecutive disaster of a playoff performance to close out his NFL career.  Once again showing that when the games mattered most, Chad was almost sure to be at his worst.  Even if the things you said were all true, none of it means much of anything in the grand scheme of things because of that one very simple reality.

[JustInFudge]

You either are a troll, are blind or know NOTHING about the game.  CuMar NEVER fought for extra yardage, he never threw a shoulder into anyone.  He frequently ran out of bounds to avoid taking a big hit.  I've never seen another RB in 50 years of watching the NFL that went down as easily as CuMar.  It is a known fact admitted by even the most ardent, yet rational (something obviously you aren't) CuMar fans that this is true.  The offseason before his best year ever, his own mother criticized him for not running hard enough and he admitted that she was right.  The next season was the ONLY season that he ran hard, and he had his best season.  CuMar was all about staying healthy so he could stay on the filed and compile stats.

 

To try to claim otherwise and laugh, just shows your total ignorance of the game, what a fan boy of his you are, and how little your opinion/perspective matters regarding him.  You need to stop sucking his dick and go back and look at game film of his whole career.

 

Wow - like thanks man.  Totally see the light now.  Curtis just fell over every time he ran the ball and ended up 3rd all time on the yardage list, 1 of 3 players in the history of the NFL to go for 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons.  Totally sounds like a player who didnt run very hard.  Good call bro. Seriously, I'm learning a lot from you.  

 

You must be the smartest Football mind ever like ever since I constantly see you telling people who little they now about this super confusing game.  Weird you're just some poster on a website, shocked the NFL hasnt picked you up because you're like super talented.  I mean, we're all very fortunate to have you around to learn from your brilliance, but I feel like your talents are being wasted here.  Nobody around is at your level, I'm surprised you even debate with us simple folk.  Maybe there is a site for advanced Football minds that you could post on, that way you wouldnt have to debate with me, a total blind moron dick sucker with no Football knowledge who thought Curtis Martin ran hard.

[JustInFudge]

Ah yes, the never ending Pro-Pennington mantra, there's always some reason why a coherent argument can never be put into his favor regarding his on-field performances, perhaps beyond a list of excuses why his constant failures somehow weren't his own fault.  I'm not going to deny for a second that I have absolutely no love lost for Pennington, but the difference is in fact the exact opposite of your last point in your first paragraph.  If anything, it's that I'm not so foolish as to constantly feel the need to pin all failures on one person.  Which is the exact reason why Herm Edwards being an incompetent moron doesn't magically excuse Chad's terrible performances.  Or why Doug Brien missing a field goal doesn't make Chad blameless when leading the offense to 3 points in a game.  I promise you, if anyone around here starting rambling on about how a boob like Edwards was so underrated and blameless for his repeated failures, I'd be more than happy to tell them why they were wrong too.

 

Your second paragraph does nothing but loudly scream that you are the one who seems incapable of having any rationality on this topic.  I mean come on, it sounds like he is your long lost lover with that crap.  The whole point is that people like you constantly feel the need to go on about how he is supposedly so much greater off the field than everyone else in the NFL, which couldn't be less meaningful for how useless he was on it.  It also couldn't be more hilariously ironic for you to talk about "totally lacking any factual basis" in one sentence and then to go on and spew that completely unfounded nonsense.  I've never seen a player in the NFL who constantly made excuses for his own poor performances or refused to ever shoulder the blame when his team failed, even when he was the primary culprit.  Chad was infamous for spewing his "outside of one or two passes" bullsh*t every single time he had an awful game.

 

As far as Chad's so-called "excellent season" for the Dolphins?  I'm sorry if I'm not heaping praise on a guy for making the playoffs on tiebreakers only thanks to the division's two far superior QBs both suffering significant injuries (ironic, I know).   Even if we simply dismiss that, let's not forget that it led to one of the most hilariously awful QB performances seen in the playoffs, as our very own Rex Ryan had his Ravens defense make Chad look like a complete and utter joke, giving Chad his third consecutive disaster of a playoff performance to close out his NFL career.  Once again showing that when the games mattered most, Chad was almost sure to be at his worst.  Even if the things you said were all true, none of it means much of anything in the grand scheme of things because of that one very simple reality.

 

 

Shhhhh.  Just listen to him.  You're no where near his level.  You're either blind or know nothing about Football.  Just relax.  

[kelticwizard]

....CuMar NEVER fought for extra yardage, he never threw a shoulder into anyone.  He frequently ran out of bounds to avoid taking a big hit.  I've never seen another RB in 50 years of watching the NFL that went down as easily as CuMar.

 

And again, I must repeat-Parcells would never have it.  Bill Parcells went out specifically to get Curtis. Bill Parcells, more than any other coach, only had "his" guys on the team.  To be a Parcells guy, you had to show you were willing to run through a wall for him.  He was snide, sarcastic, insulting and bullying in practice, but he would always stick with the guys who were toughest and willing to give all.

 

The idea that one of Parcells' guys would exhibit the play you describe is just not believable.

[Bugg]

And again, I must repeat-Parcells would never have it.  Bill Parcells went out specifically to get Curtis. Bill Parcells, more than any other coach, only had "his" guys on the team.  To be a Parcells guy, you had to show you were willing to run through a wall for him.  He was snide, sarcastic, insulting and bullying in practice, but he would always stick with the guys who were toughest and willing to give all.

 

The idea that one of Parcells' guys would exhibit the play you describe is just not believable.

And he did this at exactly the time that the cap made the backfield by committtee a more prevalent idea. If you're gonna tell us what a great back he was under Parcells you also have to account for Martin screwing the pooch completely in the AFC title game in Denver. Goid luck squaring that circle. If Martin does ANYTHING from mid-3rd quarter on, despite a horrible 1st half, the Jets probably smack the Falcons around in the Super Bowl. Did not happen. 13 carries for 14 yards? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901170den.htm

[kelticwizard]

I don't think whole careers come down to only one playoff game.  Martin didn't get anywhere running in that game, it's true.  But that doesn't mean he was running out of bounds or not trying.  And it's not like the Jets were so wounded by Denver's shutdown of Curtis that the offense was deflated-Vinny had well over 300 yards passing.  For that matter, Martin did score a TD and had 39 yards receiving.  Not a good game but not a complete pooch-screw either.

 

By the way, the great Shannon Sharpe, prototypical tight end, had two receptions for 14 yards.  And no TD's.

 

It's not just about one game.

[T0mShane]

I don't think whole careers come down to only one playoff game. Martin didn't get anywhere running in that game, it's true. But that doesn't mean he was running out of bounds or not trying. And it's not like the Jets were so wounded by Denver's shutdown of Curtis that the offense was deflated-Vinny had well over 300 yards passing. For that matter, Martin did score a TD and had 39 yards receiving. Not a good game but not a complete pooch-screw either.

By the way, the great Shannon Sharpe, prototypical tight end, had two receptions for 14 yards. And no TD's.

It's not just about one game.

Terrell Davis went for 160+ in that game and dominated.

[kelticwizard]

Curtis Martin did not do well in that game, that's true.

 

But Curtis Martin's job is not to stop Terrell Davis.

[JoeKlecko]

And again, I must repeat-Parcells would never have it.  Bill Parcells went out specifically to get Curtis. Bill Parcells, more than any other coach, only had "his" guys on the team.  To be a Parcells guy, you had to show you were willing to run through a wall for him.  He was snide, sarcastic, insulting and bullying in practice, but he would always stick with the guys who were toughest and willing to give all.

 

The idea that one of Parcells' guys would exhibit the play you describe is just not believable.

 

Parcells wouldn't have had it if he didn't like CuMar and/or think him worthy in other respects. I didn't say that CuMar "dogged it" in practice, didn't work really hard to stay in tip-top shape, didn't work at other aspects of his game, like not fumbling, his blocking and blitz pickups, receiving, etc.  Parcells was all about not beating yourself and was pretty conservative on offense. He wasn't big on taking a lot of risks.  CuMar was a workhorse, he played through pain, he was a class act and solid citizen, he rarely fumbled, and he did everything well except fight for extra yards and excel at breaking tackles.  Perhaps that just wasn't in his nature.  No player is perfect.  Every player has his limitations.  I'm sure that Parcells was happy with CuMar for all the things he did well and could live with the fact that he didn't have the ability to break tackles, gain those extra yards, or take it to the house on any given play.  It was obvious to everyone that CuMar wasn't very fast and Parcells accepted him for that.  Why wouldn't he have accepted the fact that CuMar wasn't a big, bruising back that couldn't break tackles?  Many people thought CuMar was smart to run out of bounds and avoid taking big hits where he could have gotten more seriously injured.  I can even understand that and wouldn't have minded it if it didn't happen so often.  That's just not how I would play the game or how I want the Jets' RBs to play. 

 

I don't despise CuMar at all.  He was a very good back.  I just don't think he was great or someone worthy of building an offense around , and especially not worthy of the HOF.

[kelticwizard]

Parcells wouldn't have had it if he didn't like CuMar and/or think him worthy in other respects. I didn't say that CuMar "dogged it" in practice, didn't work really hard to stay in tip-top shape, didn't work at other aspects of his game, like not fumbling, his blocking and blitz pickups, receiving, etc.  Parcells was all about not beating yourself and was pretty conservative on offense. He wasn't big on taking a lot of risks.  CuMar was a workhorse, he played through pain, he was a class act and solid citizen, he rarely fumbled, and he did everything well except fight for extra yards and excel at breaking tackles.  Perhaps that just wasn't in his nature.  No player is perfect.  Every player has his limitations.

 

What you just described is a player playing "soft", and Parcells wouldn't have such a player on his team, let alone a featured back.

 

As stated before, more than any other coach, Parcells went with "his" guys, guys who would run through a wall for him.  That was his test to stay on the team.  Near the end of his time with the Giants, the newspapers started to come out with how much of a bully the then-popular Parcells really was.  He drove people to extremes.  He was a counterpoint to Bill Walsh, the scholarly coach in San Francisco who beat teams with innovations .  Parcells was the New York/Jersey truck driver type who doesn't want to know about excuses, he just wants to see his men out there killing themselves.

 

You must remember that Parcells had Curtis in NE for his first two years, then obtained him as soon as possible when he came over to the Jets.  He loved the guy.  The idea that Parcells, of all coaches, would put up with a RB who didn't fight for extra yards or bother to break tackles because it isn't in the runner's nature is not conceivable.   Parcells?

[JustInFudge]

Curtis Martin did not do well in that game, that's true.

 

But Curtis Martin's job is not to stop Terrell Davis.

 

Walter Payton once had 32 yard on 18 carries in the playoffs, his team won because the other team didnt score.  He also had a game where he had 38 yards on 14 carries and -2 yards on 1 reception, his team lost.  HE'S TERRIBLE!!!!

 

Barry Sanders once had a playoff game where he went -1 yards on 13 attempts and his team lost.  HE'S THE WORST PLAYER EVER!!!!

 

Ever seen LT's playoff stats?  WORST THING TO EVER TAKE THE FIELD. 

 

The Bus?  9 carries, 8 yards in a playoff loss.  Do I need to say it?  HE SUCKS!!!!!

 

Eric Dickerson had an amazing game in the playoffs, 10 carries, 16 yards.  His team lost.  PURE POOPOO!!!!

 

Jim Brown vs. the Giants in the playoffs - 7 carries, 8 yards. HORRIBLE!!!!

 

Marshall Faulk?  9 carries 25 yards in a playoff loss.  14 carries for 24 yards in a playoff loss.  TERRIBLE!!!!

 

Earl Campbell - 17 carries, 15 yards in a playoff loss.  WTF?????

[T0mShane]

Walter Payton once had 32 yard on 18 carries in the playoffs, his team won because the other team didnt score. He also had a game where he had 38 yards on 14 carries and -2 yards on 1 reception, his team lost. HE'S TERRIBLE!!!!

Barry Sanders once had a playoff game where he went -1 yards on 13 attempts and his team lost. HE'S THE WORST PLAYER EVER!!!!

Ever seen LT's playoff stats? WORST THING TO EVER TAKE THE FIELD.

The Bus? 9 carries, 8 yards in a playoff loss. Do I need to say it? HE SUCKS!!!!!

Eric Dickerson had an amazing game in the playoffs, 10 carries, 16 yards. His team lost. PURE POOPOO!!!!

Jim Brown vs. the Giants in the playoffs - 7 carries, 8 yards. HORRIBLE!!!!

Marshall Faulk? 9 carries 25 yards in a playoff loss. 14 carries for 24 yards in a playoff loss. TERRIBLE!!!!

Earl Campbell - 17 carries, 15 yards in a playoff loss. WTF?????

Go ahead and make the case that Curtis Martin is as good as Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, or Jim Brown. I'll give you Jerome Bettis, for whatever that's worth.

[JustInFudge]

Go ahead and make the case that Curtis Martin is as good as Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, or Jim Brown. I'll give you Jerome Bettis, for whatever that's worth.

 

This is a conversation about overrated/underrated Jets players.  It turned into bashing Curtis Martin and his HOF career because I said he's underrated by many Jets fans (which has proven to be true based on the responses to that statement).  Many who feel he's overrated have been using his one terrible game vs. Denver in the AFCCG as an example to somehow diminish his career and prove their point.  So in response to such utter rubbish, I created a list of RB's that I think were better to significantly better than him, who had terrible games in the playoffs to show how utterly stupid it is to bash Curtis because of that one game.  No where did I state that he's better than any of those players I listed.  

 

Now kindly, GFY