Cimini: Parcells Best Came With Jets

[flgreen]

Parcells' best came with Jets

 

 

July, 17, 2013

 

Jul 17

 

 

2:40

 

 

PM ET

 

 

By  Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

 

 

 

 

Bill Parcells won two Super Bowls and an AFC championship in his legendary career, but he believes his best coaching performance occurred in an 8-8 season -- 1999, his final year as the Jets' coach.

 

 

 

 

 

The Jets, who entered the season with Super Bowl aspirations, lost QB Vinny Testaverde in the opener and began 1-6, looking utterly hopeless. Somehow, behind a neophyte named Ray Lucas, they rallied and nearly made the playoffs.

 

 

"That was one of my better coaching jobs," Parcells said Wednesday on a national conference call to discuss his upcoming Hall of Fame induction. "Holding that team together to accomplish that, I think probably was one of the better things. That wasn't any monumental success or anything, but I think most coaches will tell you, when you start 1-6, it's tough to maintain the things you need to be successful."

 

 

It was a masterful job by Parcells. Unfortunately, he "retired" the day after the season, moving into a GM-type role for a season as Al Groh coached the team.

 

 

Parcells suspects he'll get emotional during his Hall of Fame weekend, Aug. 2-4, saying he never thought about the possibility of making it to Canton until about 10 years ago. His presenter is ex-Giant George Martin, and Parcells expects many of his former coaches and players to be there. (He isn't sure if Lawrence Taylor will attend.)

 

 

Parcells spent four years with the Jets, including three as the coach, but there's no doubt he bleeds blue, as his greatest success occurred with the Giants. He said his fondest memory is the 1990 NFC Championship Game, when they stunned the two-time defending champion 49ers on the road.

 

 

"There were so many great players playing in that game," he said. "That's what makes it memorable. As a matter of fact, the referee, Jerry Markbreit, told me of all games he ever officiated, that was the greatest he ever officiated. That kind of stuck with me, that an official would feel that way as well."

[JoeKlecko]

Bull spit.  This just shows how senile the old bastid is.  The truth is that even after Testaverde went down, Tupa played well at QB and the Jets could and should have won the game.  Late in the 4th qtr.  Tuna lost track of the score, thought the Jets were behind, and if memory serves me correctly called a pass play instead of a run and punt, and resulted in the Jets losing that game.  He then went in to a self pity funk for almost half the season before he pulled his head out of his ass and began coaching.  He also tempted fate by going into the season without a viable backup.  Then went with Mirer and for far too long.  He screwed the Jets, so screw Parcells.

[#27TheDominator]

Any time you start Rick ******* Mirer for half a season it's not a good coaching job.

[JoeC36]

Any time you start Rick ******* Mirer for half a season it's not a good coaching job.

what's worse, that he started him half a season or traded for him in the first place?

[BurnleyJet]

Douche bag.

[shawn306]

I agree. Even when the Jets righted the ship, they got smoked by a 7-9 Giants team that basically cost them a trip to the playoffs.

[slats]

Bull spit.  This just shows how senile the old bastid is.  The truth is that even after Testaverde went down, Tupa played well at QB and the Jets could and should have won the game.  Late in the 4th qtr.  Tuna lost track of the score, thought the Jets were behind, and if memory serves me correctly called a pass play instead of a run and punt, and resulted in the Jets losing that game.  He then went in to a self pity funk for almost half the season before he pulled his head out of his ass and began coaching.  He also tempted fate by going into the season without a viable backup.  Then went with Mirer and for far too long.  He screwed the Jets, so screw Parcells.

This is completely accurate. If he played Tupa at QB until Lucas got up to speed, the Jets are a dangerous team in the playoffs that year. Parcells was a deer in the headlights once Vinny got hurt week one, and didn't recover until it was way too late.

[Sperm Edwards]

what's worse, that he started him half a season or traded for him in the first place?

 

Glenn Foley wasn't a Parcells Guy.

[T0mShane]

This is completely accurate. If he played Tupa at QB until Lucas got up to speed, the Jets are a dangerous team in the playoffs that year. Parcells was a deer in the headlights once Vinny got hurt week one, and didn't recover until it was way too late.

I thought we weren't blaming coaches for painting themselves into corners with their quarterback situation? Coaches coach and that sort of thing?

[T0mShane]

To recap: you guys are mad that Parcells didn't play the punter at quarterback until the special teams gunner was ready to play quarterback. Good stuff.

[dbatesman]

I thought we weren't blaming coaches for painting themselves into corners with their quarterback situation? Coaches coach and that sort of thing?

[JiF]

This is completely accurate. If he played Tupa at QB until Lucas got up to speed, the Jets are a dangerous team in the playoffs that year. Parcells was a deer in the headlights once Vinny got hurt week one, and didn't recover until it was way too late.

 

Even the part about Tuna losing track of the score?  That seems like an awfully difficult thing to do.  I mean, there's like score boards every where and stuff. 

[slats]

I thought we weren't blaming coaches for painting themselves into corners with their quarterback situation? Coaches coach and that sort of thing?

But I've heard Parcells is greater than all other coaches, so he should be held to a higher standard. For some reason, he's listing a pretty crappy coaching job here as his best? Interesting, to say the least. He was lost for half the year.

[JoeKlecko]

To recap: you guys are mad that Parcells didn't play the punter at quarterback until the special teams gunner was ready to play quarterback. Good stuff.

 

That was slats.  I'm not sure I'd have wanted Tupa to play QB for an extended period of time, but it's hard to imagine that he could have been any worse than Mirer.  I was speaking soley of the game in which Vinny was injured. Where Parcells screwed the pooch was trying to go through a season without a quality backup. 

[JoeKlecko]

Even the part about Tuna losing track of the score?  That seems like an awfully difficult thing to do.  I mean, there's like score boards every where and stuff. 

 

It's true.  I remember an article that gave the details.  Parcells admitted that he got depressed and confused when Vinny went down.  I think one of the coordinators or assistant coaches was the source and tried to get Parcells to change the play call, but it was too late.

[JoeKlecko]

I thought we weren't blaming coaches for painting themselves into corners with their quarterback situation? Coaches coach and that sort of thing?

 

Parcells was in charge of buying the groceries as part of his job.  While Rex probably has had a great deal of input on the groceries, that was Tanny's job. Big difference.  While Rex has made some mistakes with personnel, I can't really blame him too much.  The majority of the blame goes on Woody for hiring that moronic bean counter Tanny in the first place, and then on Tanny for not listening to the Scouting Dept. or learning for himself, rather than listening to Rex and giving him what he thought he wanted.

[#27TheDominator]

I thought we weren't blaming coaches for painting themselves into corners with their quarterback situation? Coaches coach and that sort of thing?

 

Wasn't Parcells the GM?  He supposedly ran out of NE to get to "buy the groceries."  Not exactly the same thing as a coach that was hired and had a OC railroaded on him.  

[T0mShane]

Wasn't Parcells the GM? He supposedly ran out of NE to get to "buy the groceries." Not exactly the same thing as a coach that was hired and had a OC railroaded on him.

And to think, the days when Victimus Rex had to suffer through Schottenheimer's treachery were the last ones in which Rex resembled a real, live coach.

[T0mShane]

Parcells was in charge of buying the groceries as part of his job. While Rex probably has had a great deal of input on the groceries, that was Tanny's job. Big difference. While Rex has made some mistakes with personnel, I can't really blame him too much. The majority of the blame goes on Woody for hiring that moronic bean counter Tanny in the first place, and then on Tanny for not listening to the Scouting Dept. or learning for himself, rather than listening to Rex and giving him what he thought he wanted.

Why were Mangini-era drafts so much better than Rex-era drafts?

[#27TheDominator]

And to think, the days when Victimus Rex had to suffer through Schottenheimer's treachery were the last ones in which Rex resembled a real, live coach.

 

Zzzzzzz.  Please explain why we should blame one fat **** who wasn't the GM for picking the players and not blame the other fat **** who specifically had that job.  

[T0mShane]

But I've heard Parcells is greater than all other coaches, so he should be held to a higher standard. For some reason, he's listing a pretty crappy coaching job here as his best? Interesting, to say the least. He was lost for half the year.

So, Rex should be held to a different standard than not only Mangini, who had to clean up Herm's mess, now he should be judged by a different standard than Parcells, who cleaned up 30 years of disasters?

[slats]

So, Rex should be held to a different standard than not only Mangini, who had to clean up Herm's mess, now he should be judged by a different standard than Parcells, who cleaned up 30 years of disasters?

 

It's already been mentioned in this thread a couple times: Parcells bought the groceries, Rex doesn't. Parcells put himself in that position. And it's still no excuse for the coaching job he did with a team many were predicting would go to the Super Bowl that year. They had an impressive second half of the season, but Parcells was lost for the first half of the year. Lost.

 

Rex never had a roster as stocked as that one.

[JoeC36]

It's already been mentioned in this thread a couple times: Parcells bought the groceries, Rex doesn't. Parcells put himself in that position. And it's still no excuse for the coaching job he did with a team many were predicting would go to the Super Bowl that year. They had an impressive second half of the season, but Parcells was lost for the first half of the year. Lost.

 

Rex never had a roster as stocked as that one.

 

Groceries never stay stocked on the shelf very long when Rex is around. 

[sourceworx]

It's already been mentioned in this thread a couple times: Parcells bought the groceries, Rex doesn't. Parcells put himself in that position. And it's still no excuse for the coaching job he did with a team many were predicting would go to the Super Bowl that year. They had an impressive second half of the season, but Parcells was lost for the first half of the year. Lost.

 

Rex never had a roster as stocked as that one.

 

 

Minus the QB, the 2010 team was close.

[slats]

Minus the QB, the 2010 team was close.

 

So Rex did more with less than the great and mysterious Wizard of Tuna?

[JoeKlecko]

Why were Mangini-era drafts so much better than Rex-era drafts?

 

Probably because Mangini was a better overall judge of talent and looked at things from a more balanced (both offense and defense) perspective than Rex.  While Rex gets some blame for personnel misses, the bottom line is that Tanny should have been making the decisions, not Rex, and not Mangini.  In terms of the draft, he got lucky perhaps with Mangini, less so with Rex, while Rex got better results on the playing field.  The truth of the matter is that if Woody Johnson had a clue, he never would have hired Tanny in the first place, but would have found either an experienced GM or someone with a solid background in scouting and personnel and made him the GM. At that point what/who either Mangini or Rex wanted would have made little difference.

[Larz]

"one of my better" does not equal best

 

cimini is a troll

 

 

[sourceworx]

So Rex did more with less than the great and mysterious Wizard of Tuna?

 

In my opinion, yes.  

 

I'm going to get torn apart for saying this, but I think Rex is a very good coach.  He shouldn't be making personnel decisions, especially on draft day.  But as a coach I think he's very good.  Is he flawed?  Absolutely.  But this has been his first time as a head coach.  There's going to be mistakes made.  

 

Also, for all of the flack about having a "Ground and Pound" offense, when you don't have a good QB, the stout defense/strong running game approach is the best option to take.

 

I'm sure I'm stirring the hornets' nest with this one.  

Edited July 18, 2013 by sourceworx

[T0mShane]

It's already been mentioned in this thread a couple times: Parcells bought the groceries, Rex doesn't. Parcells put himself in that position. And it's still no excuse for the coaching job he did with a team many were predicting would go to the Super Bowl that year. They had an impressive second half of the season, but Parcells was lost for the first half of the year. Lost.

Rex never had a roster as stocked as that one.

The roster was stocked because Parcells stocked it. It's nice to see you acknowledge that Parcells pulled the franchise up from the dirt to become Super Bowl favorites by sheer force of will, though. It makes your defense of Rex, who's done the opposite, all the more specious.

And if we're going to do that thing where we pretend that Tannenbaum was the autonomous, all-powerful roster czar, and that Victimus Rex had 53 players foisted upon him for four years, then you might have something. But you know that's not the case. If Rex wanted players he didn't get, it's because the cap was burned on players that he's openly acknowledged signing off on--Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, and Sanchez.

What Parcells was referring to in pointing to his 8-8 as one of his better coaching jobs was the fact that he was able to keep the team together after a brutal start, and he did it with a career special teamer at QB. Did he pIck the wrong backup QB to sign that offseason?? Absolutely, and that's on him. But, let's see how "lost" John Harbaugh would look if Joe Flacco blows out an Achilles in Week One, or Mike McCarthy if Rodgers does the same. It happens. Considering that Rex's teams rolled over down the stretch of the past two seasons, it makes what Parcellls did all the more impressive.

[T0mShane]

Probably because Mangini was a better overall judge of talent and looked at things from a more balanced (both offense and defense) perspective than Rex. While Rex gets some blame for personnel misses, the bottom line is that Tanny should have been making the decisions, not Rex, and not Mangini. In terms of the draft, he got lucky perhaps with Mangini, less so with Rex, while Rex got better results on the playing field. The truth of the matter is that if Woody Johnson had a clue, he never would have hired Tanny in the first place, but would have found either an experienced GM or someone with a solid background in scouting and personnel and made him the GM. At that point what/who either Mangini or Rex wanted would have made little difference.

Tannenbaum is an accountant. His major failing was that he provided zilch in terms of player evaluation and was entirely dependent on other people to tell him what a football player looked like. It's not possible to exonerate Rex for the state of the roster. It's not even possible to minimize his impact. He's the head coach. He gets 90 guys in camp every year and has to squeeze 53 players from that group of bodies.

[JoeKlecko]

Tannenbaum is an accountant. His major failing was that he provided zilch in terms of player evaluation and was entirely dependent on other people to tell him what a football player looked like. It's not possible to exonerate Rex for the state of the roster. It's not even possible to minimize his impact. He's the head coach. He gets 90 guys in camp every year and has to squeeze 53 players from that group of bodies.

 

You know that I'm not totally exonerating Rex.  It's just that I'm sure that every HC lets his GM know which players he covets.  It's then up to the GM to decide for himself what's best for the team and not be swayed by the HC's desires.  Yes, Tanny was an accountant and attorney and unqualified to be the GM.  He should have never been hired, but he was, and it was in HIS job description to make personnel evaluations and decisions, and most likely NOT in Rex's.  Thus, at least officially, the buck stops with Tanny, and with Woody who hired the incompetent hack in the first place.  Unofficially, yes we know that Rex in all likelihood was THE driving force in who Tanny picked in the draft, which players were released, which FAs were signed, etc.  Thus a big part of the blame is his.  IMO, that is mitigated to a fairly strong degree because a stronger GM would have either thanked Rex for his opinions then did what he wanted and thought best, or told Rex to stick to coaching, do a better job of keeping track of what his OC was doing in games, keep better control of the locker room, hold players accountable, a better job of game prep, and let him (the GM) make the player personnel evaluation and decisions. 

 

So imo, Rex deserves some criticism and blame for the shape of the roster before Idzik got here, and possibly even some going forward, but imo, it's not part of why he should be fired unless Tanny just stepped back and carte blanche let Rex make ALL of the personnel decisions.

Edited July 19, 2013 by JoeKlecko

[jorge o8]

Why were Mangini-era drafts so much better than Rex-era drafts?

ok revis and who??

[JoeKlecko]

The roster was stocked because Parcells stocked it. It's nice to see you acknowledge that Parcells pulled the franchise up from the dirt to become Super Bowl favorites by sheer force of will, though. It makes your defense of Rex, who's done the opposite, all the more specious.

And if we're going to do that thing where we pretend that Tannenbaum was the autonomous, all-powerful roster czar, and that Victimus Rex had 53 players foisted upon him for four years, then you might have something. But you know that's not the case. If Rex wanted players he didn't get, it's because the cap was burned on players that he's openly acknowledged signing off on--Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, and Sanchez.

What Parcells was referring to in pointing to his 8-8 as one of his better coaching jobs was the fact that he was able to keep the team together after a brutal start, and he did it with a career special teamer at QB. Did he pIck the wrong backup QB to sign that offseason?? Absolutely, and that's on him. But, let's see how "lost" John Harbaugh would look if Joe Flacco blows out an Achilles in Week One, or Mike McCarthy if Rodgers does the same. It happens. Considering that Rex's teams rolled over down the stretch of the past two seasons, it makes what Parcellls did all the more impressive.

 

Yes, but why did they have a brutal start?  It was more than just losing Testaverde.  There were several things that Parcells did that created this brutal start.

 

Thanks to Parcells they lost the opening game that they should have won, because he went into a shell and lost track of the score of the game and blew play calls late in the game.  It was because he did the unthinkable for a veteran HC and went into the season where they were prime Superbowl contenders without a viable backup QB.  It's not like QBs don't get injured all the time in the NFL.  It's also not like the Jets didn't have plenty of talent that things were so tight on the roster that he needed the extra roster spot for a player at another position.  It was just an arrogant, stupid decision.  If you say that they couldn't bring anyone in due to the cap, then it's still his fault because he was HC and GM.  Tanny negotiated contracts for him, but Parcells was the de facto GM and he told Tanny who to sign, so Parcells created the cap situation.  Then he stayed in his shell and had a colossal pity party for himself for the next 7-8 weeks.  The old Parcells would have been fiery and kicking players butts, not feeling sorry for himself.  Teams reflect their HC's attitude.  He has to be blamed for how the team played that created that brutal start.  He then pulled his head out of his rectum and rallied the team, but he and he alone put them in that spot.

 

I couldn't see McCarthy or Harbaugh going into a funk if their starting QB went down.  I was stunned when Parcells did.  It was so out of character for him.

[Integrity28]

To recap: you guys are mad that Parcells didn't play the punter at quarterback until the special teams gunner was ready to play quarterback. Good stuff.

 

... and ironically, they hated having Tebow?

[Bleedin Green]

And to think, the days when Victimus Rex had to suffer through Schottenheimer's treachery were the last ones in which Rex resembled a real, live coach.

 

Yeah, because we all remember how greatly you were praising Rex after the 2011 season with the magnificent Schitty still by his side.  I get that you don't like Rex, but come on man, the revisionist history lately has gotten a bit excessive.

 

Don't me wrong, Rex is a completely f'n moron for sticking with Sanchez as his starter for as long as he did / has (and plenty reasons beyond that), but that still doesn't give any credence to your attempts to compare the way a coach/GM built his QB position with how another coach had the position built for him by his GM.