Cimini: Parcells Best Came With Jets

[#27TheDominator]

The roster was stocked because Parcells stocked it. It's nice to see you acknowledge that Parcells pulled the franchise up from the dirt to become Super Bowl favorites by sheer force of will, though. It makes your defense of Rex, who's done the opposite, all the more specious.

And if we're going to do that thing where we pretend that Tannenbaum was the autonomous, all-powerful roster czar, and that Victimus Rex had 53 players foisted upon him for four years, then you might have something. But you know that's not the case. If Rex wanted players he didn't get, it's because the cap was burned on players that he's openly acknowledged signing off on--Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, and Sanchez.

What Parcells was referring to in pointing to his 8-8 as one of his better coaching jobs was the fact that he was able to keep the team together after a brutal start, and he did it with a career special teamer at QB. Did he pIck the wrong backup QB to sign that offseason?? Absolutely, and that's on him. But, let's see how "lost" John Harbaugh would look if Joe Flacco blows out an Achilles in Week One, or Mike McCarthy if Rodgers does the same. It happens. Considering that Rex's teams rolled over down the stretch of the past two seasons, it makes what Parcellls did all the more impressive.

 

Interesting to me is Coughlin.  His Giants teams have traditionally flopped down the stretch.  Despite having some very good teams, he rarely does better than .500 for the second half, including the 2007 super bowl team.  Taking his lumps Eli's rookie year was one thing, but it's been going on a decade.  Some of it is schedule and some injuries but still. They still got hot twice and won the super bowl.  There were a few times people thought he lost the team and should be gone, but once you get a super bowl in your pocket that balances out.

[Bleedin Green]

Why were Mangini-era drafts so much better than Rex-era drafts?

 

Oh were they now?  The last Mangini draft was an f'n disaster.  Before that, the 2006 draft's only real winners were the two OL picked in the first round, the first being the #4 overall and the second being an interior linemen, while both very good players, also about the safest picks you could make.  Leon was the only other player from that draft worth sh*t out of a total of 10 picks.  After that, Revis was obviously a brilliant pick and Harris was a good pick, but they also spent just about all of their picks that year on those 2.  Every draft pick made after Harris during the Mangini era ranked anywhere from mediocre to absolutely horrendous.

 

Not to say the Tanny/Rex drafts were any better, but simply that if not for the Revis pick, nobody would think there was anything overly impressive about the job done there.  It's simply more attempts to try to blame Rex for the failures of others who are no longer here to hate on, as if his own failures aren't enough.  I don't get it, you seem to spend more time blaming Rex for Tanny's failures than you do his own.

[T0mShane]

Yeah, because we all remember how greatly you were praising Rex after the 2011 season with the magnificent Schitty still by his side. I get that you don't like Rex, but come on man, the revisionist history lately has gotten a bit excessive.

Don't me wrong, Rex is a completely f'n moron for sticking with Sanchez as his starter for as long as he did / has (and plenty reasons beyond that), but that still doesn't give any credence to your attempts to compare the way a coach/GM built his QB position with how another coach had the position built for him by his GM.

I was responding directly to Dom, who suggested that Rex getting stuck with Schottenheimer was what separated him from Parcells. Given that the second Rex was allowed to pick his own OC he chose Sparano sort of belies that. A little bit maybe. Just a bit.

[T0mShane]

Interesting to me is Coughlin. His Giants teams have traditionally flopped down the stretch. Despite having some very good teams, he rarely does better than .500 for the second half, including the 2007 super bowl team. Taking his lumps Eli's rookie year was one thing, but it's been going on a decade. Some of it is schedule and some injuries but still. They still got hot twice and won the super bowl. There were a few times people thought he lost the team and should be gone, but once you get a super bowl in your pocket that balances out.

Coughlin plays every game like it's the Super Bowl and the team gets burned out. On the plus side, the players are ready for post-season play, on the negative side, they're mentally shot for the regular season grind by November.

[T0mShane]

Oh were they now? The last Mangini draft was an f'n disaster. Before that, the 2006 draft's only real winners were the two OL picked in the first round, the first being the #4 overall and the second being an interior linemen, while both very good players, also about the safest picks you could make. Leon was the only other player from that draft worth sh*t out of a total of 10 picks. After that, Revis was obviously a brilliant pick and Harris was a good pick, but they also spent just about all of their picks that year on those 2. Every draft pick made after Harris during the Mangini era ranked anywhere from mediocre to absolutely horrendous.

Not to say the Tanny/Rex drafts were any better, but simply that if not for the Revis pick, nobody would think there was anything overly impressive about the job done there. It's simply more attempts to try to blame Rex for the failures of others who are no longer here to hate on, as if his own failures aren't enough. I don't get it, you seem to spend more time blaming Rex for Tanny's failures than you do his own.

Tannenbaum sucked. Rex sucks. They were/are both immature, short-sighted buffoons who had/have no business being put in charge of a professional franchise.

[#27TheDominator]

I was responding directly to Dom, who suggested that Rex getting stuck with Schottenheimer was what separated him from Parcells. Given that the second Rex was allowed to pick his own OC he chose Sparano sort of belies that. A little bit maybe. Just a bit.

 

 

It didn't separate them, but it is proof that Rex should not be given all this blame for personnel problems.  Rex didn't even get to pick his own coaches.  Parcells basically had complete autonomy. 

[T0mShane]

Yes, but why did they have a brutal start? It was more than just losing Testaverde. There were several things that Parcells did that created this brutal start.

Thanks to Parcells they lost the opening game that they should have won, because he went into a shell and lost track of the score of the game and blew play calls late in the game. It was because he did the unthinkable for a veteran HC and went into the season where they were prime Superbowl contenders without a viable backup QB. It's not like QBs don't get injured all the time in the NFL. It's also not like the Jets didn't have plenty of talent that things were so tight on the roster that he needed the extra roster spot for a player at another position. It was just an arrogant, stupid decision. If you say that they couldn't bring anyone in due to the cap, then it's still his fault because he was HC and GM. Tanny negotiated contracts for him, but Parcells was the de facto GM and he told Tanny who to sign, so Parcells created the cap situation. Then he stayed in his shell and had a colossal pity party for himself for the next 7-8 weeks. The old Parcells would have been fiery and kicking players butts, not feeling sorry for himself. Teams reflect their HC's attitude. He has to be blamed for how the team played that created that brutal start. He then pulled his head out of his rectum and rallied the team, but he and he alone put them in that spot.

I couldn't see McCarthy or Harbaugh going into a funk if their starting QB went down. I was stunned when Parcells did. It was so out of character for him.

In that 1-6 start, the Jets lost those games by an average of 6 points. He screwed up signing Mirer to back up Vinny, but Vinny hadn't missed a start in two years and was an absolute horse who was about to play behind the best OL in the league. God smited him. Parcells was unprepared for a smiting.

[T0mShane]

It didn't separate them, but it is proof that Rex should not be given all this blame for personnel problems. Rex didn't even get to pick his own coaches. Parcells basically had complete autonomy.

Fair enough. Lets give Rex 40% of the blame. Deal?

[Bleedin Green]

I was responding directly to Dom, who suggested that Rex getting stuck with Schottenheimer was what separated him from Parcells. Given that the second Rex was allowed to pick his own OC he chose Sparano sort of belies that. A little bit maybe. Just a bit.

 

Oh yeah, the Sparano hire was 20 different kinds of retarded, you certainly won't hear me say otherwise.  I just take issue with the insinuation that Schotty's stupid ass played any part in the success of the 2009/2010 Jets.  This is the same moron who was once stripped of the running game duties of his job and had it handed to his OL coach, which was also the only part of the offense that had any success in his time here, outside of a short stretch in the middle of the 2008 season (and even then, Schotty's idiocy still showed through).  Granted, the Jets incompetence at QB didn't help that, but just like with Sparano last year, that doesn't excuse him being a moron.

[Bleedin Green]

Tannenbaum sucked. Rex sucks. They were/are both immature, short-sighted buffoons who had/have no business being put in charge of a professional franchise.

 

I actually have no problem with that opinion.  I'm definitely not quite as down on Rex as you are, but I'm also definitely not his biggest fan either, and wouldn't have shed a tear had he been canned this offseason.  I just think it makes a lot more sense to blame Rex for starting Sanchez's sorry ass than for drafting him is all.  Just like with Chad and Herm, I don't think the complete incompetence of one should any way excuse the complete incompetence of the other.

[T0mShane]

Oh yeah, the Sparano hire was 20 different kinds of retarded, you certainly won't hear me say otherwise. I just take issue with the insinuation that Schotty's stupid ass played any part in the success of the 2009/2010 Jets. This is the same moron who was once stripped of the running game duties of his job and had it handed to his OL coach, which was also the only part of the offense that had any success in his time here, outside of a short stretch in the middle of the 2008 season (and even then, Schotty's idiocy still showed through). Granted, the Jets incompetence at QB didn't help that, but just like with Sparano last year, that doesn't excuse him being a moron.

Oh hell no. I just re-read what I wrote and, out of context, it looks like I was saying Schotty was any good. I was being snarky (as usual), making the joke that as moronic as Schotty was, his offense was light years better than Sparano's. it's amazing how many bad coaches and players this franchise has employed over the years. I'm praying Idzik turns it around, from the secretaries to the janitors to the coaches and players. The whole place needs an enema.

[Bleedin Green]

Oh hell no. I just re-read what I wrote and, out of context, it looks like I was saying Schotty was any good. I was being snarky (as usual), making the joke that as moronic as Schotty was, his offense was light years better than Sparano's. it's amazing how many bad coaches and players this franchise has employed over the years. I'm praying Idzik turns it around, from the secretaries to the janitors to the coaches and players. The whole place needs an enema.

 

Haha, fair enough.  And I 'm right there with you on Idzik.  Hopefully he is the one who finally gets this team's sh*t together.  In the short term, I'm also hoping MM is a good hire for this team, because as many problems as this entire team has had, with a variety of ups and downs in recent years, the offensive coaching has been laughably bad (and yet somehow still getting continually worse) on perhaps the most consistent basis of it all.  Even the HC's seemed to have some small glimmers of hope at times.

[T0mShane]

I actually have no problem with that opinion. I'm definitely not quite as down on Rex as you are, but I'm also definitely not his biggest fan either, and wouldn't have shed a tear had he been canned this offseason. I just think it makes a lot more sense to blame Rex for starting Sanchez's sorry ass than for drafting him is all. Just like with Chad and Herm, I don't think the complete incompetence of one should any way excuse the complete incompetence of the other.

Agreed. Why I'm so down on Rex is because I think he's a poor leader whose act yields diminishing returns, and he's played out in that locker room. His coddling of Sanchez and Holmes, his refusal to take any responsibility for 2/3rds of the team, and his mouth in general, IMO, have boxed him into a corner, and now we're just waiting on the next coach. I don't know if we were on the same board during the last Herm year, but I was the same way with him. At some point, it just becomes clear (to me, anyway) that a coach has shown you all his cards, and that he's not going to win you a Super Bowl unless he inherits a great quarterback. Herm, Rex, same guy.

[slats]

The roster was stocked because Parcells stocked it. It's nice to see you acknowledge that Parcells pulled the franchise up from the dirt to become Super Bowl favorites by sheer force of will, though. It makes your defense of Rex, who's done the opposite, all the more specious.

Parcells won with Kotite's guys, the way Rex won with Mangini's. This trolling sh*t is easy.

But don't strawman me, man. I give Parcells plenty of credit. I just don't live in your black & white world where Parcells is a god and Rex is a terrible coach. I think that's a ridiculous POV. Parcells made a lot of mistakes in personnel, and this particular season in question, his coaching was off. He went off the deep end when Vinny got hurt, and it took him weeks to recover. Bryan Cox and Curtis Martin were as bad as Bart Scott.

And if we're going to do that thing where we pretend that Tannenbaum was the autonomous, all-powerful roster czar, and that Victimus Rex had 53 players foisted upon him for four years, then you might have something. But you know that's not the case. If Rex wanted players he didn't get, it's because the cap was burned on players that he's openly acknowledged signing off on--Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, and Sanchez.

I've said many, many times that Rex should just coach. That he needs a boss. Tannenbaum was too weak to be Rex's boss. If Idzik isn't, that can only be good for him. Rex should not have a big say in personnel. He lets his personal feelings play too large a role. He needs to rely on the talent evaluators. Unfortunately, I think Idzik has to, too.

What Parcells was referring to in pointing to his 8-8 as one of his better coaching jobs was the fact that he was able to keep the team together after a brutal start, and he did it with a career special teamer at QB. Did he pIck the wrong backup QB to sign that offseason?? Absolutely, and that's on him. But, let's see how "lost" John Harbaugh would look if Joe Flacco blows out an Achilles in Week One, or Mike McCarthy if Rodgers does the same. It happens. Considering that Rex's teams rolled over down the stretch of the past two seasons, it makes what Parcellls did all the more impressive.

He got the team back together, he didn't keep them together. They took their cue from their head coach and fell apart when Vinny got hurt. Parcells got them to rally behind Lucas, but it was way too little, too late.

Parcells did a lot of great things for the franchise, but ultimately, he never had any more success than Rex Ryan here. And Parcells had his success with maybe the best QB play the team has ever seen, while Rex got just as far -twice- with Mark Sanchez. Sorry, but the man can coach.

[T0mShane]

Parcells won with Kotite's guys, the way Rex won with Mangini's. This trolling sh*t is easy.

But don't strawman me, man. I give Parcells plenty of credit. I just don't live in your black & white world where Parcells is a god and Rex is a terrible coach. I think that's a ridiculous POV. Parcells made a lot of mistakes in personnel, and this particular season in question, his coaching was off. He went off the deep end when Vinny got hurt, and it took him weeks to recover. Bryan Cox and Curtis Martin were as bad as Bart Scott.

I've said many, many times that Rex should just coach. That he needs a boss. Tannenbaum was too weak to be Rex's boss. If Idzik isn't, that can only be good for him. Rex should not have a big say in personnel. He lets his personal feelings play too large a role. He needs to rely on the talent evaluators. Unfortunately, I think Idzik has to, too.

He got the team back together, he didn't keep them together. They took their cue from their head coach and fell apart when Vinny got hurt. Parcells got them to rally behind Lucas, but it was way too little, too late.

Parcells did a lot of great things for the franchise, but ultimately, he never had any more success than Rex Ryan here. And Parcells had his success with maybe the best QB play the team has ever seen, while Rex got just as far -twice- with Mark Sanchez. Sorry, but the man can coach.

I didn't mean any disrespect, my man. I hope that's not what came across.