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Rex Report: Assesses Lack of RB Depth


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Rex Report: Assesses lack of RB depth

 

 

August, 2, 2013

 

Aug 2

 

 

2:48

 

 

PM ET

 

 

By  Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

 

 

 

 

CORTLAND, N.Y. -- Chris Ivory is out with a hamstring injury and Mike Goodson isn't in camp because of personal reasons. On Friday, Joe McKnight left practice with an undisclosed ailment. Suddenly, the Jets' backfield looks thin.

 

 

Rex Ryan didn't sound concerned.

 

 

"I haven't really noticed it," he said Friday. "We picked up [Chad] Spann. We're actually using Lex [Hilliard] and Tommy [bohanon] in the one-back sets. When Chris come backs, obviously you'll feel better about your depth."

 

 

Hilliard and Bohanon, a seventh-round pick, are fullbacks.

 

 

FUN NIGHT: The highlight of training camp occurrs Saturday night, with the annual Green & White scrimmage. No starting jobs will be decided, especially not the quarterback competition, but Ryan said he's looking forward to having some electricity in the atmosphere -- and he didn't mean a potential lightning storm.

 

 

"I think when fans are there, and the spirit of the fans, [the intensity] does pick up," said Ryan, responding to a question about the Mark Sanchez-Geno Smith battle. "You can say what you want, but the tempo does naturally pick up. That'll be fun to watch."

 

 

Ryan declined to say which quarterback will get the first reps. Based on the rotation, it should be Smith. But he said both likely will get first-team reps.

 

 

HALF FULL/HALF EMPTY: Ryan liked what he saw from his defense in the goal-line drill.

 

 

"Big Mo was impressive to say the least," he said of DE Muhammad Wilkerson. "With that defensive line, you have to create a new line of scrimmage or you're not going to be able to stop people. I thought last year we struggled on defense. They were able to run the ball down there on us some. We have to get better at that. Hopefully, today was an indication that we will."

 

 

On the downside, they lost rookie C Dalton Freeman to a potentially serious injury. Ryan said they have to conduct live goal-line drills in camp because there's no guarantee that the situation will come up in a preseason game.

 

 

PRACTICE STARS: Ryan singled out OLB Ricky Sapp and WR Stephen Hill for top performances. Ryan said he was impressed by Hill's ability to rebound from a one-day illness that kept him out of Thursday's practice.

 

 

BIG WILLIE: Willie Colon grew up in the South Bronx and attended Hofstra, so he's as New York as a Nathan's hot dog. Ryan loves the attitude that the former Steelers guard has brought to the offense.

 

 

"I love the presence of Willie Colon," he said. "He brings a mentality. There's a certain presence. You're glad he's on your side. He's a guy you want in your fox hole. Obviously, it would have to be a big fox hole."

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seriously these were two bad signings and just cause this guy isn't Tanny doesn't mean he's Mr Perfect. or the Million Dollar Man. 

 

It's too early to say that Goodson was a bad signing.  If it turns out that the gun was his and he goes to jail, then yes, it was a bad signing.  If he misses all of TC, shows up in time for preseason then immediately gets injured, is ineffective, or gets in trouble with the league or legal authorities again, it was a bad signing, but if he gets here and contributes at a pretty high level, then it wasn't a bad signing.  Why don't we just wait and see what happens?

 

As far as Garrard, again you have to look at what he signed for.  I don't know what that amount was, but don't know that they could have gotten any QB who was healthy who was any better than Garrard for that amount.  I liked Campbell and Gradkowski, but I'd be willing to bet that they signed for a lot more than Garrard did.  If not, then Garrard was a bad signing.

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Crap!  I hate to hear that about Dalton Freeman.  I hope it turns out not to be as serious as initially thought.  I was hoping he would make the team as the backup center and OG.

 

Sapp is looking pretty good as is Hill.  That's encouraging.

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 but don't know that they could have gotten any QB who was healthy who was any better than Garrard for that amount. 

 

they could have gotten Ryan Fitzpatrick or Matt Hasselbeck. 

 

as for Goodson does anyone expect this guy back? to hear the coaches talk about him they can't be counting on him for anything. 

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whats so good about it. he took a million dollar bonus and got arrested. and he's nowhere to be found. how can any1 defend the Mike Goodson signing?

Low risk, high reward. Yeah you risk a million but you bank on multi million worth of production if he stays clean and healthy. He earned the benefit of the doubt in Oakland.

And who even said Goodson is not coming back?

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whats so good about it. he took a million dollar bonus and got arrested. and he's nowhere to be found. how can any1 defend the Mike Goodson signing?

 

Pretty easily.

 

1.) The rest of us don't expect Idzik to possess sufficient psychic ability to discern that a guy is going to get arrested two months after he signs.

 

2.) At the time, it looked like a low-cost, high-upside signing.

 

like this signing. they need speed and explosion and this guy provides it at a reasonable price (im also waiting for the "real" numbers but this isn't a huge money deal.)

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Pretty easily.

 

1.) The rest of us don't expect Idzik to possess sufficient psychic ability to discern that a guy is going to get arrested two months after he signs.

 

2.) At the time, it looked like a low-cost, high-upside signing.

 

 

Proving that Im inconsistent is not the same as proving Mike Goodson was a good signing.  With Goodson apparently there were signs, that fans probably wouldn't be privy to... 

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Proving that Im inconsistent is not the same as proving Mike Goodson was a good signing.

Not exactly, but unless and until you can muster an argument that isn't based in fallacy or fantasy, it'll do.

 

With Goodson apparently there were signs, that fans probably wouldn't be privy to...

"There must have been signs Goodson would flake out, because I say so" isn't a good start.

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the post you quoted, was basically the Jets first move in free agency. Maybe Garrard was first. At that point I like it. 

 

don't have a problem with 1 low cost high risk signing

 

now, several months later, I do have a problem with all of em being that way, and then don't have room to resign pro bowlers like Laron Landry or Brandon Moore.

 

They didn't have the money to sign 1 good player but they had the money to flush after a half dozen bad ones? 

 

as for Goodson himself I could dig up an article but it's hearsay basically about how he's running with a bad crowd or whatever. 

 

 

here's a question what's the over under on Willie Colon, Kellen Winslow and Braylon combined 2013 games played. Maybe 20? Peterman? plus Goodson and Garrard if you miss on all these guys it's just as bad as signing Laron and having him get hurt. 

 

My point is the scattershot approach is different than the eggs in one basket approach that eventually doomed Tanny but is it better? 

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the post you quoted, was basically the Jets first move in free agency. Maybe Garrard was first. At that point I like it.

don't have a problem with 1 low cost high risk signing

now, several months later, I do have a problem with all of em being that way, and then don't have room to resign pro bowlers like Laron Landry or Brandon Moore.

They didn't have the money to sign 1 good player but they had the money to flush after a half dozen bad ones?

as for Goodson himself I could dig up an article but it's hearsay basically about how he's running with a bad crowd or whatever.

here's a question what's the over under on Willie Colon, Kellen Winslow and Braylon combined 2013 games played. Maybe 20? Peterman? plus Goodson and Garrard if you miss on all these guys it's just as bad as signing Laron and having him get hurt.

My point is the scattershot approach is different than the eggs in one basket approach that eventually doomed Tanny but is it better?

Giving Laron Landry a four year deal at the start of a rebuild would have been ridiculous. He's brittle and expensive, and plays a non-premium position.

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the post you quoted, was basically the Jets first move in free agency. Maybe Garrard was first. At that point I like it. 

 

don't have a problem with 1 low cost high risk signing

 

now, several months later, I do have a problem with all of em being that way, and then don't have room to resign pro bowlers like Laron Landry or Brandon Moore.

Brandon Moore is 33, has made one Pro Bowl, and has spent three and a half months on the open market with no takers. LaRon Landry is made of porcelain, has made one Pro Bowl, and isn't that good.

 

They didn't have the money to sign 1 good player but they had the money to flush after a half dozen bad ones?

Giving $14 million guaranteed to LaRon Landry is the definition of flushing money away.

 

as for Goodson himself I could dig up an article but it's hearsay basically about how he's running with a bad crowd or whatever.

Weird how you didn't dig anything up back when we signed him. I bet you knew all along that Hernandez was a murderer, too.

This is more horsesh*t than hearsay, btw. The thing in May was the first arrest of Goodson's life. He has a bunch of kids and flakes out on child support and rent. If that's your standard, we never should have traded for Cromartie.

 

here's a question what's the over under on Willie Colon, Kellen Winslow and Braylon combined 2013 games played. Maybe 20? Peterman? plus Goodson and Garrard if you miss on all these guys it's just as bad as signing Laron and having him get hurt.

If we miss on all these guys, we'll be bad. If we'd re-signed Moore and Landry, we'd be...good? Not to mention that the total guaranteed money given to Colon, Winslow, Edwards, Peterman, Goodson, and Garrard combined is less than a third of the guaranteed money the Colts gave to Landry. None of those guys save Goodson is signed past this season.

 

My point is the scattershot approach is different than the eggs in one basket approach that eventually doomed Tanny but is it better?

Signing injured veterans to one-year deals isn't an "approach." It's a way to fill the roster and get us through 2013, at which point we'll have a giant pile of eggs and can decide which baskets we like best. But to answer your question: yes, generally speaking, I think that signing injured/aging/troubled/terrible veterans to one-year deals is a better approach than signing injured/aging/troubled/terrible veterans to long-term megadeals.

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This discussion sparked my curiosity, so I did some research on who the FA QBs and RBs were and what the contract amounts were for Garrard, Ivory and Goodson.  

 

David Garrard signed a one-year, $1.1 million contract

Chris Ivory signed a three-year, $10 million contract

Mike Goodson signed a three-year, $6.9 million contract

 

 

Below are lists of those players. Some of the players don't have a new team or contract amount listed, so I don't know if they signed with a new team and the list just wasn't updated or what.

 

Quarterbacks
Joe Flacco (Signed six-year, $120.6M deal with BAL) 
Kevin Kolb (Signed two-year, $6.1M deal with BUF)
Matt Moore (Signed two-year, $8M deal with 
MIA
Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $6.5M deal with TEN)
Tarvaris Jackson (Signed one-year deal with SEA)

Matt Hasselbeck (Signed two-year, $8M deal with IND
)
Jason Campbell (Signed two-year, $3.75M deal with CLE)
Chase Daniel (Signed three-year, $10M deal with KC)
Drew Stanton (Signed three-year, $8.2M deal with ARZ
Matt Cassel (Signed two-year, $7.4M deal with MIN)
Josh Johnson (Signed two-year, $1.445M deal with CIN)
Brian Hoyer (Signed two-year, $1.965M deal with CLE)
Byron Leftwich
Brady Quinn (Signed one-year, $780K deal with SEA)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Rex Grossman (Signed one-year, $960K deal with WSH)
David Carr (Signed one-year, $1.005M deal with NYG
)

Derek Anderson (Signed one-year, $840K deal with CAR)
Charlie Batch
Bruce Gradkowski (Signed three-year, $4.95M deal with PIT)
Kellen Clemens (Signed one-year, $870K deal with STL)
Tyler Thigpen 
Trent Edwards 
Tim Tebow (Signed two-year, $1.385M deal with NE)
JaMarcus Russell
Caleb Hanie (Signed one-year, $715K deal with BAL)
Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $905K deal with TB)
Josh McCown (Signed one-year, $865K deal with CHI)
Seneca Wallace (Signed one-year, $840K deal with NO)
A.J. Feeley
Troy Smith
Luke McCown (Signed one-year, $840K deal with NO)
Chris Redman
John Beck 
Jordan Palmer
J.P. Losman 
Kevin O'Connell

 

 

Aside from Flacco (who wasn't gonna leave Baltimore for the Jets), that list is hardly inspiring.  IMO David Garrard, if healthy, was probably the best QB on that list (particularly for $1.1 million) and would have been the best mentor for Sanchez.  The only other QBs on that list I would have wanted would have been Jason Campbell or Bruce Gradkowski, and I don't think either would have been as good a mentor for Geno as Garrard, but I can understand why some would question Idzik's signing Garrard rather than one of them.  

 

 

Running Backs

Steven Jackson (Signed three-year, $12M deal with ATL)
Reggie Bush (Signed four-year, $16M deal with DET)
Rashard Mendenhall (Signed one-year, $2.5M deal with ARZ)
Ahmad Bradshaw (Signed one-year, $1.1M deal with IND)

Willis McGahee
Beanie Wells
Cedric Benson
Shonn Greene (Signed three-year, $10M deal with TEN)
Bernard Scott (Signed one-year, $1.016M deal with CIN)
Kevin Smith
Michael Turner
Felix Jones (Signed one-year, $780K deal with PHI)
Peyton Hillis (Signed one-year deal with TB)

Brandon Jacobs

Danny Woodhead (Signed two-year, $3.5M deal with SD)
Cedric Peerman (Signed two-year, $2.515M deal with CIN)
Rashad Jennings (Signed one-year, $630K deal with OAK)
La'Rod Stephens-Howling (Signed one-year, $780K deal with PIT)
Justin Forsett (Signed two-year, $2M deal with JAX)
Leon Washington (Signed one-year, $1.5M deal with NE)
Javon Ringer
Ronnie Brown (Signed one-year, $840K deal with SD)
Tim Hightower 
Brian Leonard (Signed one-year, $715K deal with TB)
Mike Goodson (Signed three-year, $6.9M deal with NYJ)
Jalen Parmele (Signed one-year, $715K deal with TEN)
D.J. Ware
Chris Rainey 
Jahvid Best
Ryan Grant
Steve Slaton
Thomas Jones
Joseph Addai
Mewelde Moore
Cadillac Williams
Jackie Battle (Signed one-year deal with TEN)
Kahlil Bell
Tashard Choice (Signed one-year, $780K deal with BUF)
 

Again, that list is hardly inspiring.  IMO Ivory and Goodson are the two fastest and best RBs on that list.  Steven Jackson is older and has a bit of an injury history himself.  Ahmad Bradshaw is the only other RB on tha tlist I would have liked the Jets to have signed.

 

So I can't criticize Idzik for Ivory or Goodson, but perhaps could for Garrard over Campbell or Gradkowski.

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the post you quoted, was basically the Jets first move in free agency. Maybe Garrard was first. At that point I like it. 

 

don't have a problem with 1 low cost high risk signing

 

now, several months later, I do have a problem with all of em being that way, and then don't have room to resign pro bowlers like Laron Landry or Brandon Moore.

 

They didn't have the money to sign 1 good player but they had the money to flush after a half dozen bad ones? 

 

as for Goodson himself I could dig up an article but it's hearsay basically about how he's running with a bad crowd or whatever. 

 

 

here's a question what's the over under on Willie Colon, Kellen Winslow and Braylon combined 2013 games played. Maybe 20? Peterman? plus Goodson and Garrard if you miss on all these guys it's just as bad as signing Laron and having him get hurt. 

 

My point is the scattershot approach is different than the eggs in one basket approach that eventually doomed Tanny but is it better? 

 

The glaring point that you miss is that with that group of players 5 (count 'em), 5 different positions are addressed, whereas with signing Laron you cover one, and he wasn't that good in coverage.  Did you forget (or just not care) about all the holes the Jets had and lack of depth?  If you have a valid point, it's perhaps that Idzik rolled the dice on several high profile FA signings (Garrard, Colon and Ivory) who had injury histories.

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Brandon Moore is 33, has made one Pro Bowl, and has spent three and a half months on the open market with no takers. LaRon Landry is made of porcelain, has made one Pro Bowl, and isn't that good.

 

Giving $14 million guaranteed to LaRon Landry is the definition of flushing money away.

 

Weird how you didn't dig anything up back when we signed him. I bet you knew all along that Hernandez was a murderer, too.

This is more horsesh*t than hearsay, btw. The thing in May was the first arrest of Goodson's life. He has a bunch of kids and flakes out on child support and rent. If that's your standard, we never should have traded for Cromartie.

 

If we miss on all these guys, we'll be bad. If we'd re-signed Moore and Landry, we'd be...good? Not to mention that the total guaranteed money given to Colon, Winslow, Edwards, Peterman, Goodson, and Garrard combined is less than a third of the guaranteed money the Colts gave to Landry. None of those guys save Goodson is signed past this season.

 

Signing injured veterans to one-year deals isn't an "approach." It's a way to fill the roster and get us through 2013, at which point we'll have a giant pile of eggs and can decide which baskets we like best. But to answer your question: yes, generally speaking, I think that signing injured/aging/troubled/terrible veterans to one-year deals is a better approach than signing injured/aging/troubled/terrible veterans to long-term megadeals.

 

Excellent post!!!  I have one small correction, however.  Both Ivory and Goodson signed three-year deals.

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seriously these were two bad signings and just cause this guy isn't Tanny doesn't mean he's Mr Perfect. or the Million Dollar Man. 

 

The Garrard signing ended up being a complete load of nothing, I'll give you that.  But that was the entire net result... nothing.  It was a signing made before the new league year even started, making it nowhere close to the big splashy UFA signing that crippled the entire Jets offseason plan, as you've tried to sell it as.  As far as Goodson goes, we haven't even hit the preseason and yet you've been yammering on for months already about him being cemented as a horrendous signing, starting back before he had ever even missed a single moment of practice with the Jets, which is why your position there had already lost all merit.  You only finally stopped for a while because of what a horses ass you looked like when still trying to carry on about the evils of Goodson having a friend who owned a gun when everyone else was busy talking about a different player actually murdering a guy.

 

Yeah, we get it, you decided you didn't like Idzik from the very moment he dared to even consider trading your boyfriend Darelle.  You're certain to deny this, and you probably even have yourself convinced it's not true, but it's clear as day to everyone who has read your posts over the past 5 or 6 months, which has been filled with you grasping at every straw you can to have something to criticize.  That reality does nothing but give people reason to disregard any points you actually try to make about him.  Frankly, I'm not even trying to praise him either, as it's still way too early to make any rational judgment, even if I may be a bit cautiously optimistic, but it's gotten beyond tiresome of having to see how desperate you are to trash the guy at every turn simply because you're still butthurt over Revis.

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it has to be said the Mike Goodson signing sucked.  

Didn't suck anywhere near the level of your post. There was nothing indicating the impending certainty of a Goodson arrest and stint in charm school. Regardless of that - how the hell do you know what Goodson's future holds? 

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If the Jets were a contending team, I would've liked Steven Jackson. And if the Jets were a contending team, Steven Jackson might've liked the Jets.

I liked the Goodson signing much better than the trade for Ivory, and I'm still holding out hope that he'll return.

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Bit's not wrong, really. The Garrard signing blew up, and the Goodson signing is in jeopardy of going bad. For a guy with his physical tools, Goodson has bounced around quite a bit already. It's safe to say that his issues probably weren't exactly a secret. Throw in Ivory, who's already living up to the rep he had of not being able to stay healthy, and Idzik's had a rough start as far as signing FAs goes.

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We get it Bit does not like Idzik- therefore his criticism

 

I wonder if it's Bit doesn't like Idzik so much as lately the board has fallen over itself lending support for Idzik's every move. 

 

A honeymoon period after Tannenbaum left is understandable, but this is getting eerie.

 

The forum is being flooded with posts allegedly written under the names and avatars of normally hyper-critical posters praising Idzik and ending with the assurance that the writer supports all the moves he has made to date. 

 

We can only guess where the pods have landed.

 

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you guys are all crapping on Laron Landry, he's the best safety this team had since Victor Green. He might even be better than Victor Green. He's an elite athlete and every team needs a certain amount of those guys. Just cause he's not with the Jets doesn't mean he sucks. He's a head hunter and we can only hope his older brother is half the player Laron is. 

 

as for Brandon Moore the reason he's on the market is because he doesn't want to accept Vet min. not because he's bad. If he were on the roster he'd be the best guard, again. He's significantly better than Winters, Colon, Peterman etc. PFF had him as the 4th best guard in the game last year. 

 

as for the response that Idzik is filling holes on the cheap... no he's not. The team didn't get anything out of Garrard and who knows what they get out of Goodson or Ivory. Hope in one hand and piss in the other, see which fills up first. This has nothing to do with whether I like this person, I do in fact like Idzik and think he and Rex make a great pair. But I gotta call em like a see em when Tommy Bohannon is in your one back sets than the 2 FA RB signings were garbagio.

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Bit's not wrong, really. The Garrard signing blew up, and the Goodson signing is in jeopardy of going bad. For a guy with his physical tools, Goodson has bounced around quite a bit already. It's safe to say that his issues probably weren't exactly a secret. Throw in Ivory, who's already living up to the rep he had of not being able to stay healthy, and Idzik's had a rough start as far as signing FAs goes.

 

No, he's really, really, really wrong. He's arguing that a team in the middle of a total rebuild should be handing long-term deals to guys like Brandon Moore and LaRon Landry. He's arguing that the signing of a #2 running back with $1mm in guaranteed money was indefensible because Idzik should have known that a guy who's never been arrested before would get caught with weed and a handgun, oh and also the fact that he praised the signing at the time is irrelevant. Every single argument he's made is based on ex post facto reasoning or a demand that Idzik display powers of clairvoyance. It's entirely possible that every one of the guys we signed will flame out, in which case we can and should use facts and reason to criticize Idzik. Until then, bit should probably stick to weeping over his photo of Revis in a heart-shaped frame.

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