The Sanchez Debate

[cr726]

So in your scenario the way he stops throwing at least some INT's is to stop pumping when he's undecided. That's a fix, it has nothing to do with talent that's in his head. Cutting down on turnovers has nothing to do with talent it is somewhat a mental issue and throwing the ball away rather than forcing it is one of the simple fixes. I think that's his main problem the guy refuses to throw the ball away he forces his own turnovers and he needs a guy like a Parcells tearing him to shreds  every time he refuses to throw a ball away when nothing is there. The coddling should have been stopped in year 2 . IMO Parcells was 100 % the reason Vinny stopped throwing INT's and started throwing the ball away when nothing was there. that's why I used Vinny as an example

Vinny came here late in his career and actually had receivers who could get open.

[JoeKlecko]

At this point - ANY progress at all would seem like a huge leap from what we've seen in his four year tenure, so in my mind, that would indicate the ABILITY for growth, something that I think is highly in doubt at this stage. Therefore, if that were to occur, than yes, I would be in favor of seeing more potential growth.

 

I agree.   If he can somehow miraculously achieve that, then I think the Jets would have to keep him and let Geno and he battle it out again in TC next year.

 

That said, while he may be able to cut down on the TOs, I doubt he will be able to that to that degree.  I also have strong doubts about his ability to raise his completion percentage.  He just doesn't have an accurate arm, or at least hasn't in the past.  I don't know whether it's a fundamentals issue, something in his brain misfires, if he gets too nervous/antsy and misfires or what, but his accuracy at short passes has been among his worst, and those are the meat and potatoes of a WCO offense.  The propensity is there as well for more passes to be knocked down or batted up in the air as well as intercepted if the ball isn't accurately thrown on those quick slants.   If Mornhinweg can fix Sanchez' accuracy, get him to calm down mentally, stay poised, and as a result cut down on the TOs to any degree at all, he deserves Coach of the Year in the NFL, and consideration as one of the best QB coaching jobs ever in the NFL.

[slats]

Meh, not so sure .. The tattoo thing confirmed it for me.  the whole there's no better option thing is the myth, Rex never went out and got a better option..

The tattoo is of his wife.

I'm not gonna take this too far, but Sanchez did make it to the AFC championship his first two years, and showed signs of improvement over that time - playing decently in the playoffs. And, the Jets had traded up to the fifth pick in the draft for the right to pay him a lot of money.

Year four is when they should've gotten him some real competition, and the GM went out and got Tebow. Not sure how that's on Rex, or demonstrates that Rex is in love.

[JoeKlecko]

That's a myth that gets perpetuated here thru repetition. Rex loves Sanchez up to and until he has a better option available at QB. In his entire tenure as an NFL head coach, his best QB option has been Mark Sanchez.

He treats him with kid gloves because he knows Sanchez is a delicate flower and -again- he hasn't had any options.

But even if you want to believe that Rex loves himself some Sanchez, Idzik is going to step in at some point and demand that Geno get the start.

 

I don't think that you or anyone can dispute that Rex loves Sanchez.  How many other NFL HCs have a tatoo of their naked wife wearing the jersey of the starting QB?  

 

It's your bolded sentence that makes the difference or Rex's desire to keep his HC job that makes the change.

[Klecko73isGod]

Counter-hypothetical: Sanchez grows into a giant, near-invulnerable creature with superhuman strength and green skin. His stamina and physical attributes allow him to gain 6,000+ total yards as a dual-threat QB, even as he racks up more than 100 TFLs as the Jets' new nose tackle and helps derail various villains' plans for world domination. Also, he really cuts down on the turnovers. Do the Jets keep him?

 

 

I don't know.... I'm gonna have to think about that. 

[Stonehands]

I think at this point that Sanchez is what he is.  Those hypothetical numbers seem unreachable from the guy we have seen thus far.  He really hasn't shown anything to indicate that those numbers are remotely possible.

[Klecko73isGod]

The answer is no if you look at recent history. We cut a guy like this last year, he looks ready to fulfill your scenario in Blue and Red in about 45 days. Off the field he is poised and ready to mission in South Boston.

 

 

Who the hell are you talking about?

[whodeawhodat]

So in your scenario the way he stops throwing at least some INT's is to stop pumping when he's undecided. That's a fix, it has nothing to do with talent that's in his head. Cutting down on turnovers has nothing to do with talent it is somewhat a mental issue and throwing the ball away rather than forcing it is one of the simple fixes. I think that's his main problem the guy refuses to throw the ball away he forces his own turnovers and he needs a guy like a Parcells tearing him to shreds  every time he refuses to throw a ball away when nothing is there. The coddling should have been stopped in year 2 . IMO Parcells was 100 % the reason Vinny stopped throwing INT's and started throwing the ball away when nothing was there. that's why I used Vinny as an example

You would have to think that if he could stop pumping the ball to his target he would have last year.  If he could make smarter decisions with the ball(like throw it away) he would have last year.  If he could navigate around an offensive linemans ass, he would have last year.  For the record, I said have pump fakes incorporated into his pass plays, last year, those were the plays that worked.  Wouldnt you say that he cost us a few games last year?  That is just on him.  I am not talking about Luigi bringing no offense to the table. If he could have just dumped off every pass or thrown it away, would we not have won at least 2 more games?  IMO, he single handedly cost us games last year.  Again, this is just what I saw as I watched every painful game.  I think I may have gone and mowed my lawn to blow off steam on a couple of the later games so I missed a couple of halves but for the most part, I had seen enough.  And this is coming from a Jet Fan that pulled for mark last year.  I said that his sophmore slump came a year late and he would rebound and learn and be better than ever.  I cant give him the benefit of the doubt this year.  I will root for him but I do not have such high expectations as yourself...

[slats]

I don't think that you or anyone can dispute that Rex loves Sanchez. How many other NFL HCs have a tatoo of their naked wife wearing the jersey of the starting QB?

It's your bolded sentence that makes the difference or Rex's desire to keep his HC job that makes the change.

I dispute it. I'm sure Rex wishes that Idzik signed a veteran QB who could make it to training camp, or that Geno came in and seized the job, but those things didn't happen. Once again, Rex is left with Sanchez as his best option.

Pretty amazing that he has a career winning record to this point given the circumstances.

[Scott Dierking]

I dispute it. I'm sure Rex wishes that Idzik signed a veteran QB who could make it to training camp, or that Geno came in and seized the job, but those things didn't happen. Once again, Rex is left with Sanchez as his best option.

Pretty amazing that he has a career winning record to this point given the circumstances.

Dispute duly noted. But, it does not dispel what seems to be the truth.

[bitonti]

Dispute duly noted. But, it does not dispel what seems to be the truth.

 

the truth is that Mark is better than Geno, today. Saying otherwise is being hopeful.

[slats]

Dispute duly noted. But, it does not dispel what seems to be the truth.

Group think is double plus good.

[FloridaJetsFan]

 

The tattoo is of his wife wearing a Sanchez jersey.

 

Fixed.

[JoeKlecko]

I dispute it. I'm sure Rex wishes that Idzik signed a veteran QB who could make it to training camp, or that Geno came in and seized the job, but those things didn't happen. Once again, Rex is left with Sanchez as his best option.

Pretty amazing that he has a career winning record to this point given the circumstances.

 

C'mon, guy.  Why would he get a tattoo of his wife wearing Sanchez' jersey if he didn't love Sanchez?  It makes no sense otherwise.  Also, why has ne never called out Sanchez by name?  He has protected and coddled Sanchez much more than any other Jets player.

[Klecko73isGod]

C'mon, guy.  Why would he get a tattoo of his wife wearing Sanchez' jersey if he didn't love Sanchez?  It makes no sense otherwise.  Also, why has ne never called out Sanchez by name?  He has protected and coddled Sanchez much more than any other Jets player.

 

 

When has Rex ever called out any of his players by name? Or any other coach called out one of his players by name?

 

Effective managers don't publicly admonish their charges. You criticize behind closed doors, never to the media. 

[slats]

C'mon, guy.  Why would he get a tattoo of his wife wearing Sanchez' jersey if he didn't love Sanchez?  It makes no sense otherwise.  Also, why has ne never called out Sanchez by name?  He has protected and coddled Sanchez much more than any other Jets player.

He got the tattoo after Sanchez made it to the AFC championship two years in a row, and he coddles him because he needs coddling and Rex has no other options.

Rex will make the move to Geno sooner rather than later this year if Sanchez doesn't have a miraculous turnaround. Or, in other words, Geno will be starting sooner rather than later.

[kay_gee]

Meh, not so sure .. The tattoo thing confirmed it for me. the whole there's no better option thing is the myth, Rex never went out and got a better option..

it wasn't Rex's job to go out and get a better option. that was Tanny's job, and he's gone now because he was bad at said job.

[Scott Dierking]

When has Rex ever called out any of his players by name? Or any other coach called out one of his players by name?

 

Effective managers don't publicly admonish their charges. You criticize behind closed doors, never to the media. 

You mean like he did Geno yesterday? Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Scott Dierking]

He got the tattoo after Sanchez made it to the AFC championship two years in a row, and he coddles him because he needs coddling and Rex has no other options.

Rex will make the move to Geno sooner rather than later this year if Sanchez doesn't have a miraculous turnaround. Or, in other words, Geno will be starting sooner rather than later.

When someone has to make excuses for you, you probably need to be gone. 

 

People need to stop making excuses for Rex. He has made this Sanchez bed, he needs to lie in it.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Counter-hypothetical: Sanchez grows into a giant, near-invulnerable creature with superhuman strength and green skin. His stamina and physical attributes allow him to gain 6,000+ total yards as a dual-threat QB, even as he racks up more than 100 TFLs as the Jets' new nose tackle and helps derail various villains' plans for world domination. Also, he really cuts down on the turnovers. Do the Jets keep him?

 

Is gamma-radiation considered performance enhancing? Because I can see the likely scenario of trading Smith, keeping Bruce Sanchez and we get hit with a 4 game doping violation. SOJ FTW. 

[richiej95]

Sorry my post earlier on the thread left the format of sticking to the stats on the debate - I just saw the thread title and weighed in with my view before reading the opening post properly....my mistake. That's what I call a fail of a first post so the only way is up for me now - a bit like the Jets!

[Klecko73isGod]

You mean like he did Geno yesterday? Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

He didn't call him out. He was asked about his performance and gave an honest assessment. He's said similar things about Sanchez after bad practices in the past. 

 

Calling a player out would be ripping him for his work ethic or questioning his attitude.

 

Giving an honest assessment of a players performance when asked about it isn't remotely close to calling a player out.

[flgreen]

You mean like he did Geno yesterday? Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

To be fair, he said Smith's practice was brutal, not Smith.    Then he went on to blame it on the ankle to make excuses for the brutal practice.  It most likely wasn't the ankle, because all observers seemed to think that the ankle had greatly improved since Sunday.

 

Smith had a rookie meltdown.  Sucks for him.  Rex wants to keep his job, and right now at least Sanchez is the best QB he has.

 

Sucks for Rex

[Smashmouth]

Oh, so posting something intelligent means trying to come up with ways to fix something that is a lost cause and come up with fake stats for said lost cause?  Sorry, carry on.

 

No I just think if you would have given your answer to the original post and posted your reasons and actually used the debate format I laid out we could have had a decent conversation

 

Oh you suck or he sucks or he has no chance or it will never happen or can't happen or he sucks are not in my vocabulary unless we're talking about Vernon Gholston

 

The question was with the stats provided what would you do.

[Scott Dierking]

He didn't call him out. He was asked about his performance and gave an honest assessment. He's said similar things about Sanchez after bad practices in the past. 

 

Calling a player out would be ripping him for his work ethic or questioning his attitude.

 

Giving an honest assessment of a players performance when asked about it isn't remotely close to calling a player out.

Odd how he never gave that type of assessment with Sanchez EVER. Even when presented with so many more opportunities.

 

Calling someone's performance "brutal" is not exactly uplifting, either.

[T0mShane]

No coach in the history of football was ever forced to start the same under-performing player for four consecutive years...other than Rex Ryan.

[Smashmouth]

I think at this point that Sanchez is what he is.  Those hypothetical numbers seem unreachable from the guy we have seen thus far.  He really hasn't shown anything to indicate that those numbers are remotely possible.

 

Actully in his second year he had 17 td and 13 ints  and 26 TD's in his 3rd year so those numbers are very attainable since hes already done it. The big issue is can he cut out the ridiculously stupid turnovers and in that respect I cant argue in his favor at all but you can't say accomplishing anything is unreachable. I think his biggest limitations are in his head and that's always fixable if not hes out of a job next year because hes already on borrowed time due to a stupid contact extension

[Scott Dierking]

Sanchez, a 4 year veteran throws 3 picks in a practice, Ryan calls it "disappointing"

 

Geno, a rookie throws 3 picks in a practice, Ryan calls it "brutal"

 

Teacher's pet.

[Klecko73isGod]

Odd how he never gave that type of assessment with Sanchez EVER. Even when presented with so many more opportunities.

 

Calling someone's performance "brutal" is not exactly uplifting, either.

 

 

You are Manish Mehta's target audience.

[Scott Dierking]

No coach in the history of football was ever forced to start the same under-performing player for four consecutive years...other than Rex Ryan.

Rex is stuck with this horrible situation which is in no way reflective of any coaching. It is a miracle he has not left this franchise to help some other, better enabled franchise to win Lombardi's

 

We are so fortunate.

[CTM]

The tattoo is of his wife.

I'm not gonna take this too far, but Sanchez did make it to the AFC championship his first two years, and showed signs of improvement over that time - playing decently in the playoffs. And, the Jets had traded up to the fifth pick in the draft for the right to pay him a lot of money.

Year four is when they should've gotten him some real competition, and the GM went out and got Tebow. Not sure how that's on Rex, or demonstrates that Rex is in love.

 

Wearing a sanchez jersey.. lol..come on

 

his stats in regular season were terrible year 1 and 2.. need legit competition by year 3 imo. We got to AFC championship game on back of defense, Rex, Pacturd and Sanchez are the only ones who believe sanchez had anything to do with it.

 

I also believe that in any nfl team, if the coach says to the GM we need competition at most important position on field, that they don't say no. wRecks fault

[Smashmouth]

You would have to think that if he could stop pumping the ball to his target he would have last year.  If he could make smarter decisions with the ball(like throw it away) he would have last year.  If he could navigate around an offensive linemans ass, he would have last year.  For the record, I said have pump fakes incorporated into his pass plays, last year, those were the plays that worked.  Wouldnt you say that he cost us a few games last year?  That is just on him.  I am not talking about Luigi bringing no offense to the table. If he could have just dumped off every pass or thrown it away, would we not have won at least 2 more games?  IMO, he single handedly cost us games last year.  Again, this is just what I saw as I watched every painful game.  I think I may have gone and mowed my lawn to blow off steam on a couple of the later games so I missed a couple of halves but for the most part, I had seen enough.  And this is coming from a Jet Fan that pulled for mark last year.  I said that his sophmore slump came a year late and he would rebound and learn and be better than ever.  I cant give him the benefit of the doubt this year.  I will root for him but I do not have such high expectations as yourself...

 

I used to have higher expectations but I no longer do. Im not sure how my post revealed any expectations. I think interceptions and turnovers are mental errors that can be fixed and that's talking about any QB. Its just my observation not my expectation. if you will look at my post that answers the question in the original post you will see my expectaions have gone down a fairly good amount

[Scott Dierking]

 

You are Manish Mehta's target audience.

And you are Fireman Ed's target audience.

[Klecko73isGod]

And you are Fireman Ed's target audience.

 

Actually, I can't stand Ed and think he's a massive attention whore. 

[T0mShane]

Rex is stuck with this horrible situation which is in no way reflective of any coaching. It is a miracle he has not left this franchise to help some other, better enabled franchise to win Lombardi's

We are so fortunate.

Like Mother Theresa, really.