Matt Simms: MERGED

[faba]

People see one competent performance by a QB in a preseason game and it extrapolates that he is the one- aah i gues it is because of the mediocre performances we have seen the last couple of years

[Lizard King]

Jesus. When it was Sanchez who might be starting in place of Smith, it was all "play Smith anyway and let him learn!" now, Smith sucks and Simms should start, and learning on the job isn't an option. Start Smith. We're not winning and Smith is supposed to be "the future." Find out what you've got.

So you're saying Smith was the best option overall in camp and in the preseason, and gives us the best chance to win. I'm taking your word for this as someone who writes on this subject and probably has better access than I. I think the "Play Smith Anyway" camp packed up for the weekend after we saw what we had on the practice squad. I haven't heard that group too much today, have you?

[ylekram]

Of course, if by some wild hair in Rex's butt he did opt to start Simms (and Idzik didn't overrule him) the media would have a field day ripping the entire Jets organization. If Idzik was to allow Rex to start Simms and Simms failed miserably, it would be the final nail in Rex's HC coffin with the Jets and maybe with any team for the foreseeable future.

 

If they start Simms and it works, of course, they'd look like geniuses.  A true feast or famine situation.  Genius or moron.

the flip side to that coin is that they start smith and he fails miserably and media runs with the fact that smith wasn't ready,which could also be the final nail in rex's coffin.

[Lizard King]

People see one competent performance by a QB in a preseason game and it extrapolates that he is the one- aah i gues it is because of the mediocre performances we have seen the last couple of years

Without a doubt this fanbase is begging for QB competence, and I just want to know, when you apparently have a good thing on the practice squad, why would you not play the hot hand? We're not talking about Brett Ratliff, we are talking about Phil Simms' son. Not some piker.

[faba]

Rex is on the edge with this decision- if he picks either guy and he flops-the vultures will be circling

[pointman]

Jesus. When it was Sanchez who might be starting in place of Smith, it was all "play Smith anyway and let him learn!" now, Smith sucks and Simms should start, and learning on the job isn't an option. Start Smith. We're not winning and Smith is supposed to be "the future." Find out what you've got.

Its about not being secure in Mark or Geno, so you just want to believe in something... and Simms is showing the hot hand right now. I agree, find out what he has.. Geno and Simms. We know what Mark is. Lets move on.

[pointman]

Rex is on the edge with this decision- if he picks either guy and he flops-the vultures will be circling

As long as Rex doesn't just ride it out with Mark too long again, and he doesn't drop Simms.. I think he will be in a happy medium. 

[Lizard King]

Rex is on the edge with this decision- if he picks either guy and he flops-the vultures will be circling

 

The biggest risk a manager can make, is not taking a calculated risk when the opportunity presents itself. This team went from great to garbage incredibly quickly because it rested on its laurels (defense) and left the rest up to everyone else. Too many hands in the kitchen and no master chef. Is starting Simms that magic, franchise changing, Tom Brady moment? I dunno, probably not, but it's low risk, good reward and needs to be considered. You put Geno out there, and Revis is going to eat him alive anyway. You know what you get in McElroy. My question is, what is the harm, and I haven't heard that adequately refuted.

[pointman]

The biggest risk a manager can make, is not taking a calculated risk when the opportunity presents itself. This team went from great to garbage incredibly quickly because it rested on its laurels (defense) and left the rest up to everyone else. Too many hands in the kitchen and no master chef. Is starting Simms that magic, franchise changing, Tom Brady moment? I dunno, probably not, but it's low risk, good reward and needs to be considered. You put Geno out there, and Revis is going to eat him alive anyway. You know what you get in McElroy. My question is, what is the harm, and I haven't heard that adequately refuted.

I so want Revis to not completely light us up. 

[kay_gee]

So you're saying Smith was the best option overall in camp and in the preseason, and gives us the best chance to win. I'm taking your word for this as someone who writes on this subject and probably has better access than I. I think the "Play Smith Anyway" camp packed up for the weekend after we saw what we had on the practice squad. I haven't heard that group too much today, have you?

They've all become Simms fans. I'm saying there are no good options and, barring a miracle, everyone is going to be disappointed. Ideally, Sanchez starts to give Smith (and Simms) more time to become pro ready. Since Sanchez is out, and assuming the Jets think/hope Smith is the future, they might as well throw him in and see what he's got.

[kay_gee]

Its about not being secure in Mark or Geno, so you just want to believe in something... and Simms is showing the hot hand right now. I agree, find out what he has.. Geno and Simms. We know what Mark is. Lets move on.

Oh **** hope. I haven't had hope since I was 12.

[ylekram]

best case scenario= jets start geno and does really well,making people forget sanchez and making idzik look smart. chance of happening= 0%

worst case scenario=jets start geno and looks horrible causing media to get the pitchforks out.chance of happening=100%

 

safest way out

 

best case scenario= start matt simms and looks a lot like his ol man,making people forget about all other jets qb's .chance of happening=2%

worst case scenario=start matt simms and looks terrible.start smith the next week.chance of happening.98%

 

seriously,the jets are screwed.but the best and safest way to go is start simms

[RSJ]

If the Jets start Smith we will see Simms in the second half anyway. Three Int's in one half of football isn't going to cut it.

[jl12]

He was replaced as QB his senior season due to ineffectivness. He completed less than 45% of his passes his last year and went undrafted.

I think people need to lower their expectations. If Simms plays in week one, it will be against faster, better players.  He will also face opponents who game plan for him. He will face adversity in game situations.  He will face pressure internal and external. 

 

In short the results will be different. 

 

I just can't understand why people won't see this.

 

Let him be the 3rd string qb for a few weeks before we talk of him seeing game action.

[JoeKlecko]

the flip side to that coin is that they start smith and he fails miserably and media runs with the fact that smith wasn't ready,which could also be the final nail in rex's coffin.

 

That's possible, but I don't think that likely, since Geno was drafted to be their QB of the future, and the conventional thinking with Sanchez out would be to start the #2 QB, i.e., the rookie you're looking to develop into your future starter, not your 3rd string QB that was a UDFA and who just barely beat out the incumbent 3rd string QB.  The Jets will get killed in the media if they announce a few days early that Simms is gonna start day 1.  Of course, if they only announce the day of the game, the local beatwriters won't have a chance to trash the Jets until the day after the game, but woe be unto them if Simms doesn't play well.  The TV NFL crews on all networks would all rip the Jets and be laughing at them leading up to the game as well.  I wish they would start Simms, but I just don't see it happening.

[RSJ]

I think people need to lower their expectations. If Simms plays in week one, it will be against faster, better players.  He will also face opponents who game plan for him. He will face adversity in game situations.  He will face pressure internal and external. 

 

In short the results will be different. 

 

I just can't understand why people won't see this.

 

Let him be the 3rd string qb for a few weeks before we talk of him seeing game action.

 

 

You mean he might only complete 60% of his passes instead of 80%?

[Matt39]

Geno was drafted because he fell to us and happened to be the highest guy on the board. That doesnt mean he's the future of anything.

[jl12]

You mean he might only complete 60% of his passes instead of 80%?

No I mean he might throw 2 picks while completing 50% of his passes.  Reality, people. Reality. 

[Lizard King]

Geno was drafted because he fell to us and happened to be the highest guy on the board. That doesnt mean he's the future of anything.

People say the Simms crowd is hyped up. This Geno mania wouldn't even exist if he wasn't there in round 2.

[RSJ]

No I mean he might throw 2 picks while completing 50% of his passes.  Reality, people. Reality. 

 

I hope the Jets do start Geno. It will only make the pick look more like a failure then it already has. Can't wait to see him twist his little ankle running the read option.

[Bugg]

That's possible, but I don't think that likely, since Geno was drafted to be their QB of the future, and the conventional thinking with Sanchez out would be to start the #2 QB, i.e., the rookie you're looking to develop into your future starter, not your 3rd string QB that was a UDFA and who just barely beat out the incumbent 3rd string QB.  The Jets will get killed in the media if they announce a few days early that Simms is gonna start day 1.  Of course, if they only announce the day of the game, the local beatwriters won't have a chance to trash the Jets until the day after the game, but woe be unto them if Simms doesn't play well.  The TV NFL crews on all networks would all rip the Jets and be laughing at them leading up to the game as well.  I wish they would start Simms, but I just don't see it happening.

Including the one his dad is lead analyst for?How many people in the media are going to say anything bad about Matt Simms in this situation? 

 

If Simms starts it's going to be a great story. And he has done more to earn the job than anyone else. Does actually doing something matter or does when you were drafted count for more? Wrecks even said he had the best stats of anyone in the NFL in preseason. So instead the Jets, being typically braindead, will start Nacho Sheetbox or the nowhere near ready Smith. Starting Simms is the move. 

[Lizard King]

No I mean he might throw 2 picks while completing 50% of his passes.  Reality, people. Reality. 

Look I know we got a little heated last night but I think you make a fair point. I just question, what are you saying about Simms that you couldn't be saying about Geno as well. Exclude those we already know better for a moment, or those on the PUP (McElroy, Sanchez) and you compare Geno to Simms straight up, and just tell me who you think looked better. Take into a decent level of account that Geno was drafted on round 2 with no maneuvering on our part. Simms' college stats kind of stunk, but he has show pro upside, where Geno's college stats were very inconsistent, and he has shown no pro upside.

[Lizard King]

Including the one his dad is lead analyst for?How many people in the media are going to say anything bad about Matt Simms in this situation? 

 

If Simms starts it's going to be a great story. And he has done more to earn the job than anyone else. Does actually doing something matter or does when you were drafted count for more? Wrecks even said he had the best stats of anyone in the NFL in preseason. So instead the Jets, being typically braindead, will start Nacho Sheetbox or the nowhere near ready Smith. Starting Simms is the move. 

Actually, following Jets starting players announcement precedent, where you were drafted is more important than what you've done, ie "Starting Tight End, 1st round draft pick, Dustin Keller!" woohoo

[JoeKlecko]

Including the one his dad is lead analyst for?How many people in the media are going to say anything bad about Matt Simms in this situation? 

 

If Simms starts it's going to be a great story. And he has done more to earn the job than anyone else. Does actually doing something matter or does when you were drafted count for more? Wrecks even said he had the best stats of anyone in the NFL in preseason. So instead the Jets, being typically braindead, will start Nacho Sheetbox or the nowhere near ready Smith. Starting Simms is the move. 

 

I didn't say that anyone would rip Simms.  There's no reason to rip him.  They would rip the team, front office and owner for starting a UDFA 3rd string QB over the QB they just drafted.  The only way they'd escape getting torched is if they said Geno's ankle was still too sore and he couldn't go, but since he will have had 10 days to rest and he played on it earlier, that would never hold water.

 

Conventional thinking is a powerful force, especially in the NFL.  Go against it and you pay the piper dearly if you don't succeed.

[ylekram]

as we speak,gino is horrible.there isn't anything that I saw or heard to make me believe he was ever going to come close to beating out sanchez,the leagues worst qb title holder.do I think he will get better?absolutely.do I think he is our savior? I don't know. what I do know is that if smith starts next week, he is going to get destroyed.not only making rex look even more like a clown,but some of rex's clowness will start to rub off on idzik.

  simms has a better chance,imo,to play serviceable.it is less of a gamble,imo

[RSJ]

I didn't say that anyone would rip Simms.  There's no reason to rip him.  They would rip the team, front office and owner for starting a UDFA 3rd string QB over the QB they just drafted.  The only way they'd escape getting torched is if they said Geno's ankle was still too sore and he couldn't go, but since he will have had 10 days to rest and he played on it earlier, that would never hold water.

 

Conventional thinking is a powerful force, especially in the NFL.  Go against it and you pay the piper dearly if you don't succeed.

 

All Rex needs to say is that there was an open competition and Matt Simms won it so he gets the week one start. That is what the Jets GM said, isnt it? That every position is an open competition?

[ylekram]

undrafted rookie free agent qb jeff tuel to start week 1 for the buffalo bills

[Lizard King]

The only legitimate way to not play Geno, and I think it's pretty well accepted you don't want Geno to start for many reasons, is to hire a veteran QB asap.

[jl12]

Look I know we got a little heated last night but I think you make a fair point. I just question, what are you saying about Simms that you couldn't be saying about Geno as well. Exclude those we already know better for a moment, or those on the PUP (McElroy, Sanchez) and you compare Geno to Simms straight up, and just tell me who you think looked better. Take into a decent level of account that Geno was drafted on round 2 with no maneuvering on our part. Simms' college stats kind of stunk, but he has show pro upside, where Geno's college stats were very inconsistent, and he has shown no pro upside.

Are you going to tell me that I'm irrational or smoking crack again if I tell you what I really think?  What you say is true to a point in my view.  It's possible Geno goes out there, and he throws 2 or 3 picks, fumbles once, while passing for 200 plus yards or something along those lines.  Here's the thing.  Geno had a mostly consistent college career.  Look at his numbers last year at West Virginia. Yes, he slumped badly. Yes he had a horrific game against (I think) Syracuse.  On the whole though, his completion percentage was great. Now, he had a Tavon Austin and another receiver who are pretty amazing wideouts.  Still, his numbers jump off the charts at you. (I'm sure someone has posted them already).

 

I'm not disputing some of what you say. I'm just saying it's premature to anoint Simms as our savior while casting Geno for the scrap heap.  I can't agree with your statement that he "has shown no pro upside."  Simms is now in the category of a legit prospect.  We have two of them on the roster....

[JoeKlecko]

All Rex needs to say is that there was an open competition and Matt Simms won it so he gets the week one start. That is what the Jets GM said, isnt it? That every position is an open competition?

 

No.  Everyone knows the competition was solely between Sanchez and Geno.  McElroy and Simms never factored into that competition.  It's clear from the comments they've made the entire offseason since the draft and the snaps the QBs got with the first unit in practice and games.  AFAIK, neither McElroy or Simms ever got snaps with the first unit.  How are they going to make the case that the competition ever included those two?

 

Seriously, some of you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top.  You're not being realistic and are just gonna wind up getting disappointed and frustrated.  If you want to torture yourself that way, go ahead, but you're not doing yourself any favors.  I learned the hard way years ago.  I'm not going there again.

[JoeKlecko]

undrafted rookie free agent qb jeff tuel to start week 1 for the buffalo bills

 

That's because their top 2 QBs are injured and they just brought in Leinart.  Leinart doesn't know the offense and he sucks.  Tuel at least has been there, knows the offense and has some timing with the receivers, plus I'm sure that no matter how bad he is, he's still better than Leinart.

 

The two situations aren't even remotely the same, so don't go there.  

[RSJ]

If Smith starts, the whole stadium will be chanting Simms name by halftime. That should do wonders for his confidence.

[RSJ]

No.  Everyone knows the competition was solely between Sanchez and Geno.  McElroy and Simms never factored into that competition.  It's clear from the comments they've made the entire offseason since the draft and the snaps the QBs got with the first unit in practice and games.  AFAIK, neither McElroy or Simms ever got snaps with the first unit.  How are they going to make the case that the competition ever included those two?

 

Seriously, some of you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top.  You're not being realistic and are just gonna wind up getting disappointed and frustrated.  If you want to torture yourself that way, go ahead, but you're not doing yourself any favors.  I learned the hard way years ago.  I'm not going there again.

 

Now it's only an open competition if the Jets tell you it is? lol ok, I didnt know thats how open competitions work.

[JustInFudge]

Matt Simms FTMFW

[Lizard King]

Are you going to tell me that I'm irrational or smoking crack again if I tell you what I really think?  What you say is true to a point in my view.  It's possible Geno goes out there, and he throws 2 or 3 picks, fumbles once, while passing for 200 plus yards or something along those lines.  Here's the thing.  Geno had a mostly consistent college career.  Look at his numbers last year at West Virginia. Yes, he slumped badly. Yes he had a horrific game against (I think) Syracuse.  On the whole though, his completion percentage was great. Now, he had a Tavon Austin and another receiver who are pretty amazing wideouts.  Still, his numbers jump off the charts at you. (I'm sure someone has posted them already).

 

I'm not disputing some of what you say. I'm just saying it's premature to anoint Simms as our savior while casting Geno for the scrap heap.  I can't agree with your statement that he "has shown no pro upside."  Simms is now in the category of a legit prospect.  We have two of them on the roster....

If you tell me that Simms got his mechanics from David Lee and Marty Morninweg, than yes I will.