A fireable offense

[JustInFudge]

I'm confused, Rex brings nothing to the table on offense, didnt even see Sanchez's first pick of the preseason but he's the one who called a 7 step drop when Sanchez got into the game?  He's calling plays, not MM?  Weird.  

[Bleedin Green]

link? I have been supporting vlad for 4 years. And many of you have insulted me for this. 

 

Just as an FYI, while you were at the height of your argument about how Idzik supposedly destroyed the Jets OG position:

 

vlad is better than this bum. (And I know how bad Vlad is)

 

No one at the guard position can be relied upon, it's a tire fire.

 

Vlad embarrassed himself again, the depth does suck.  

 

JMO the problem with the OL is that Colon has never played RG, Peterman never played LG it's too much change and for no good reason. Is the plan to start Winters at LG and Colon at RG? What is the plan for this position? 

 

They used to aspire to be a top 5 unit now it's right about average (16 out of 32).  But it could get far worse, if the guard situation doesn't improve, quick. 

 

Not exactly ringing endorsements from a guy who's trying to pat himself on the back now for said player seeming to have likely become a starter.  So the question is, do you now believe that you bailed on your well-known support of Vlad just a little too soon, or that you were simply blinded by your need to criticize Idzik?

[Jetman_67]

Knowing they are going to be 3-13 at best this year, it really makes no difference who Rex plays at any given time.

[#27TheDominator]

AT BEST!!!!!

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Knowing they are going to be 3-13 at best this year, it really makes no difference who Rex plays at any given time.

 

I think this team could be a playoff team if they can get halfway decent play out of the offense. The defense should be very good and keep them in almost every game, I don't know if we will have any offense whatsoever, if we do, we will have a playoff team this year.

[flgreen]

Remember when Kotite would not even let O'Donnell take a preseason snap, because the O-line was so horrible?

 

Rex's poor judgement was not putting his starting QB in the 4th quarter of a pre-season game with the 2nd team. It was having him do a 7 step drop with those players in. Very stupid.

 

They were playing out of the shotgun when Sanchez was hurt

[JustInFudge]

They were playing out of the shotgun when Sanchez was hurt

 

Well, that and he was scrambling toward the sideline...but dont let facts get in the way of a good agenda.

 

Rex (who doesnt know offense) called a 7 step drop....fire him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[T0mShane]

This. There isnt a hint of objectivity anymore in the debate. He cant do right, even when he's right.

A week ago, it was how he coddle's Sanchez, now he's a moron for not coddling Sanchez. lmfao

He sucks.

[Scott Dierking]

I'm confused, Rex brings nothing to the table on offense, didnt even see Sanchez's first pick of the preseason but he's the one who called a 7 step drop when Sanchez got into the game?  He's calling plays, not MM?  Weird.  

I never said that. Read subsequent replies surfer boy.

[Scott Dierking]

That's the big problem with Rex.  He's not more like Kottite.

Sadly, he seems to be morphing into him with these press conferences.

[JoeKlecko]

But he lost the team.  Like really lost it.  Had to appoint a "leadership committee" because nobody was listening to him.  I didn't see any mention of handlign the press in  your prior post. 

 

I'm not sure what you're looking for.  I don't really keep up with the Giants, so don't know how their beat writers are, but KNOW that the Jets beat writers are a bunch of lowlife, lying, scumbag hacks.  It doesn't to me what they say.  

 

I didn't realize things had gotten that bad with Coughlin, but the Giants have been a much more stable organization.  Coughlin had won it all before and had had great success with the Giants.  It's one thing to lose the team because you're being a dick even thought you're competent, and quite another to lose the team because you're incompetent and clueless, which Rex is, and the Giants hadn't fallen to the level of ineptitude that the Jets had.  I think the reason Woody didn't fire Rex is because of his skill as a DC and he wanted to see if with some support and guidance from a good GM (as opposed to Tranny), he could learn and improve.  So far, it doesn't look to me as if Rex has learned a thing.  His answer was to go into a defensive shell and focus exclusively on the D.  He still makes stupid decisions and predictions, in spite of having toned things down.  At this point, I could see Mornhinweg punching Rex in the mouth or getting fed up and quitting before I could see Rex turning this team around and surprising everyone with a winner this year.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not sure what you're looking for.  I don't really keep up with the Giants, so don't know how their beat writers are, but KNOW that the Jets beat writers are a bunch of lowlife, lying, scumbag hacks.  It doesn't to me what they say.  

 

I didn't realize things had gotten that bad with Coughlin, but the Giants have been a much more stable organization.  Coughlin had won it all before and had had great success with the Giants.  It's one thing to lose the team because you're being a dick even thought you're competent, and quite another to lose the team because you're incompetent and clueless, which Rex is, and the Giants hadn't fallen to the level of ineptitude that the Jets had.  I think the reason Woody didn't fire Rex is because of his skill as a DC and he wanted to see if with some support and guidance from a good GM (as opposed to Tranny), he could learn and improve.  So far, it doesn't look to me as if Rex has learned a thing.  His answer was to go into a defensive shell and focus exclusively on the D.  He still makes stupid decisions and predictions, in spite of having toned things down.  At this point, I could see Mornhinweg punching Rex in the mouth or getting fed up and quitting before I could see Rex turning this team around and surprising everyone with a winner this year.

 

 

The Giants are more stable and more successful and the answer is.... WE MUST FIRE THE COACH!  

 

Do I have that right?

[JustInFudge]

He sucks.

He's great.

[T0mShane]

The Giants are more stable and more successful and the answer is.... WE MUST FIRE THE COACH!

Do I have that right?

Coughlin had been a successful head coach with an expansion franchise and with a moribund catholic college prior to coming to the Giants. Rex once coached a defense that was, and still is, a perennial power. Are you really comparing the two men as head coaches?

[T0mShane]

He's great.

You suck.

[ZachEY]

I'm not even trying to slightly defend Rex here because, frankly, **** him.  But I think it's rather clear we've officially reached the point where the criteria is going to keep changing to make sure any and every decision Rex makes will be deemed to be the inexcusably wrong one.  I have no doubt that if Sanchez never stepped into the game Rex would be getting blasted for not letting the person who was "clearly" set to be his starter even play in the most significant game of the preseason.  Frankly, I really don't give a damn either way, but it's pretty apparent at this point.

 

Meh.  Can't say I agree with you on this one.  I think the offense is more that he put them out with the 2nd string offensive line than that he put him out there at all.  If in that moment, you know Sanchez will be the starter, which seemed obvious to us all, you don't put your starter behind the backups of an already suspect line.

 

Obviously I don't really care what happens to Sanchez, but putting your starter behind the 2s late in a preseason game is not smart roster management.

[JustInFudge]

You suck.

 

You're great. 

[pedro55]

I'm confused, Rex brings nothing to the table on offense, didnt even see Sanchez's first pick of the preseason but he's the one who called a 7 step drop when Sanchez got into the game?  He's calling plays, not MM?  Weird.  

 

  I think people don't want to believe certain things are blame everything on one person.  At this point, why would MM & Rex not get into a huge argument over plays. Rex is not an offensive guy at all, so if he said one thing, MM said another,  you'd see more arguments if Rex forced his plays on the offense.   It's just hard to imagine MM might not be that good.

[#27TheDominator]

Coughlin had been a successful head coach with an expansion franchise and with a moribund catholic college prior to coming to the Giants. Rex once coached a defense that was, and still is, a perennial power. Are you really comparing the two men as head coaches?

 

Coughlin went 7-9 and then 6-10, 6-10 twice before he got canned.    I think Rex should get through this presason before you thugs put a noose around his neck. I hear this is a 3 win team, AT BEST!!  If they go 8-8 or 7-9 will you admit that maybe he's not so horrible? 

[Bleedin Green]

Meh.  Can't say I agree with you on this one.  I think the offense is more that he put them out with the 2nd string offensive line than that he put him out there at all.  If in that moment, you know Sanchez will be the starter, which seemed obvious to us all, you don't put your starter behind the backups of an already suspect line.

 

Obviously I don't really care what happens to Sanchez, but putting your starter behind the 2s late in a preseason game is not smart roster management.

 

I get what you're saying, and I suppose I just see a rather significant disparity between Mark Sanchez and a real starting QB.  Keep in mind, none of this is meant to excuse the decision because, in the end, it's more a matter of not caring much either way.  I'm well beyond the point of defending Rex for anything, but I don't give a crap what happens to Sanchez either.  I simply think that we've reached full-on "I'll hate him for everything" mode with Rex.  The fact that there were folks in this thread who actually used names such as Aaron Rodgers as a point of comparison is what was screaming to me that some have moved past the idea of grasping reality (you know, even more than is typical around here).  Hey, it's happened plenty of times before and, with this team, is set to happen lots more in the future, so it's really meant to be an observation more than anything.  I've more reached the point of indifference than anything when it comes to this season.  Hopefully we get a reason for that to change, but I'm not betting on it.

[flgreen]

Coughlin went 7-9 and then 6-10, 6-10 twice before he got canned.    I think Rex should get through this presason before you thugs put a noose around his neck. I hear this is a 3 win team, AT BEST!!  If they go 8-8 or 7-9 will you admit that maybe he's not so horrible? 

 

LOL  Right

 

If the Jets go 9-7, the same people that are calling this a 3-13, at best team, will then say it was a Super Bowl contender, and Rex should be fired

[JoeKlecko]

The Giants are more stable and more successful and the answer is.... WE MUST FIRE THE COACH!  

 

Do I have that right?

 

No, that's why they didn't fire the coach, even though that's what the players wanted.

 

The Jets don't have that kind of stability yet, and never will with Rex as HC.

[JoeKlecko]

How is any of this sh*t relevant? The statement was:

 

Coughlin lost control of the locker room.  The Giants kept him.  If that's a fact, tell me, am I lying? 

 

That was my quote and should have read "lost control of the locker room two years in a row, especially with...."

[JoeKlecko]

I think the 7 step drop is probably much more on Morningwood than Rex, I really doubt Rex has anything to do with the playcall, let alone the number of steps on the drop back. I don't have a single problem with Rex putting in Sanchez when he did, this is way overanalyzing. If you want to kill Morningwood on the playcall, that is valid.

 

Good point.

[JoeKlecko]

I'm not even trying to slightly defend Rex here because, frankly, **** him.  But I think it's rather clear we've officially reached the point where the criteria is going to keep changing to make sure any and every decision Rex makes will be deemed to be the inexcusably wrong one.  I have no doubt that if Sanchez never stepped into the game Rex would be getting blasted for not letting the person who was "clearly" set to be his starter even play in the most significant game of the preseason.  Frankly, I really don't give a damn either way, but it's pretty apparent at this point.

 

This is true to a point.  The key is who is making the criticisms.  Some people are inconsistent, but most are not.  Thus imo those who have criticized Rex for putting Sanchez in would not have criticized him for starting Geno.  I've only seen 1-2 people posit that Sanchez was put in to make Geno look bad.  Most people have said that the idea of putting your starting QB (or someone who may be the starting QB) on the field in the 4th Qtr of a meaningless preseason game is stupid.  Sanchez isn't even really part of the equation.  I think the better posters know or understand that Geno started either because they hadn't decided on a starter yet or Idzik ordered it.  Then when Geno played poorly and threw the 3 picks and got the safety, most rational posters realize that indicated that Geno isn't ready and that more than likely, Sanchez would then be the starter.

[JoeKlecko]

If you are head coach, and you put your QB in with back-ups, against back-ups (looking to make a name for themselves), you go tour OC and say, run the ball-nothing fancy here. Let's walk out of this with our team intact.

 

That is what someone who manages a TEAM does. he accounts for all the players, all the coaches. 

 

Rex doesn't do that. he has pet projects, pet players.

 

^^^^This x 1,000,000

[JohnnyLV]

.  Then when Geno played poorly and threw the 3 picks and got the safety, most rational posters realize that indicated that Geno isn't ready and that more than likely, Sanchez would then be the starter.

 

 

Nothing the Jets have done suggest that this is the case. Nothing. Competition is still ongoing

[#27TheDominator]

AARRRRGGGGHHHH!

[#27TheDominator]

I am so sick of this whole BS protect your players nonsense.  They can't practice in pads.  They all suck.  Why shouldn't they try to practice the new offense? Remember when they used to actually have scrimmages?  Let's keep the good china in the closet so it doesn't break before Thanksgiving dinner!

[JoeKlecko]

I really don't get the outrage over Rex playing Sanchez on Saturday.  Personally I think Geno starting on Saturday night was basically a confirmation that he is going to be the starter.  If that's the case, then Sanchez should have gone in when he did. You don't play the third stringer right after the starter comes out in a preseason game.

 

I think the media would be making a big a deal if Rex hadn't played Sanchez. "Why won't Rex just say that Geno is starting?" "The competition is a farce," blah, blah blah.... 

 

At this point, according to the media, everything the Jets do is wrong.

 

I don't see how you don't or can't get it.  Just because Geno started doesn't mean that they had already decided that he's the starter vs Tampa Bay (even before Sanchez was injured). It could have been just as they said, that they hadn't decided who was going to start and because Geno didn't get to play the week before and Sanchez had gotten extensive work (more than usual), they were going to give him a chance Saturday night.

 

Even if they had already decided that Geno was gonna be their starter, why on earth did it make sense for Sanchez to go in during the 4th Qtr of a meaningless preseason game?  Sorry, but that makes zero sense.  Sanchez didn't need a few more snaps, and sending even your backup out against a bunch of scrubs who are desperate trying to make a last impression in order to win a preseason game is stupid.  It would have been one thing if he had sent Sanchez in with the starting OL or even the 2nd string OL, but to do it with the 3rd string Ol was just nuts.

[JoeKlecko]

Nothing the Jets have done suggest that this is the case. Nothing. Competition is still ongoing

 

No it isn't.  Sanchez may be out for an extended period of time.  The competition is over.  It was over with Geno's play the other night.  Idzik may have ordered Rex to start Geno anyway, but dollars to doughnuts that Rex and Mornhinweg would have been ready to announce that Sanchez was the starter the next morning.

[#27TheDominator]

No it isn't.  Sanchez may be out for an extended period of time.  The competition is over.  It was over with Geno's play the other night.  Idzik may have ordered Rex to start Geno anyway, but dollars to doughnuts that Rex and Mornhinweg would have been ready to announce that Sanchez was the starter the next morning.

 

 

Why?  How do you make that determination?  Why wasn't it over when Sanchez threw the pick 6 in Detroit?

[JoeKlecko]

Why?  How do you make that determination?  Why wasn't it over when Sanchez threw the pick 6 in Detroit?

 

Why?  How?  Because after his play vs the Giants, it's readily apparent to anyone who knows anything about the game that Geno isn't ready to start in the NFL. He may never be, but if he has that potential, he has a lot of work to do first.  Your starting QB can't be struggling with fundamentals.  He has to be focused on the game plan, the D and putting up points.  He has to be focused on leading and firing up his teammates.  If he's struggling within himself and not playing as he knows he's capable, he's not going to be an effective player or leader.  The game is hard enough without one's attention being divided, and when you're struggling with fundamentals, your attention is definitely divided.

 

I'm a professional singer and a voice teacher.  There are certain basic fundamentals and techniques for classical singers.  It is an athletic-type endeavor, and there are very close parallels between that and sports.  I can go into a lot of detail if you want, but don't think that most here are interested in a voice lesson.   Being told that one needs to change some of those basic fundamentals and techniques doesn't solve the problem.  When performing (be it in a game or a concert) we're under pressure, and when under pressure old habits and muscle memory take over.  When we need to change some of those habits or techniques, it takes focused practice over a period of time on those things solely to ingrain those techniques into muscle memory and the brain so that they happen naturally.  One can't simultaneously work on learning the notes and rhythms of new music, meeting the demands of the composer, being vocally expressive and communicating the message of the text (especially if one is singing in a foreign language and one isn't fluent in that language), being a good actor, singing with clear diction, and others aspects of performance when one needs to fix those basic fundamentals.  Those things have to wait until the fundamentals are fixed; otherwise, a singer will never be able to reach his full potential and perform as well as he would otherwise have been able.  There will be certain notes or roles he'll never be able to sing because he won't have the right technique/ability.  He'll always have a problem singing in tune or will wind up trashing his voice and having a shorter, less effective career because of those shortcomings.  

 

When one is struggling with those techniques/fundamentals, one isn't truly comfortable and confident.  One either has to think too much about those things to the extent that one can't even begin to make music (play freely, confidently) and be expressive, or one sings and tries one's best to make music, but because of the poor/questionable fundamentals, one won't succeed very well (in the case of a QB will throw interceptions, will struggle, not play confidently or inspire confidence or lead his teammates well because his own confidence is suffering), and one won't appear to be very talented or perform anywhere near his/her best.  The brain can only focus on 1-2 things at a time.  Any more than that and the head starts swimming and little goes right.  That's why Geno is suddenly inaccurate and throwing picks.  He's struggling with his footwork and timing while trying to read the D and find open receivers.  

 

Early in my career I went through those same struggles, I have seen them in hundreds of colleagues and friends, have seen them in my voice students over 20 years, and have read many singer biographies where singers spoke of these struggles.

 

I don't think it was over with Sanchez' pick 6 vs Detroit, because he bounced back and played pretty well after that, because we know that Rex loves and believes in Sanchez, and based on the comments that Mornhinweg and Lee have made recently, they seem to think that at this point Sanchez gives them the best chance to win because Geno just isn't ready.  In a non-pressured situation (practice), they've seen Geno's talent and what he does better than Sanchez, but those things don't show up as well or clearly in games because of the pressure and then Geno reverts back to old habits and his play suffers.  Conversely, they know that Sanchez has accuracy problems, has little poise in the pocket, but at least he's not struggling with the basics of the postion...taking the snap from under center, having to focus on the correct number of steps and throwing on the right step and right timing, reading Ds while dropping back, etc.  He's free to try to read the D, make a good decision, then hopefully make a good throw.  In this situation, when healthy, Sanchez DOES give them the best chance to succeed (at least over Geno).  Perhaps McElroy might give them a better chance to win now, even with a noodle arm.  In time, even Simms might give them the best chance.  He has his own issues to work through.  I would think that Lee and Mornhinweg don't see him as even close to Geno and Sanchez at this point, or they'd have included him in the competition for the starting position. They are new to the team.  They didn't draft or bring in any of them.  They don't have any stake in who the starter is, they just want the QB who can play the best and give the team the best chance to win.  Their words and Geno's play are what enabled me to make the determination I did.

[#27TheDominator]

Why?  How?  Because after his play vs the Giants, it's readily apparent to anyone who knows anything about the game that Geno isn't ready to start in the NFL. He may never be, but if he has that potential, he has a lot of work to do first.  Your starting QB can't be struggling with fundamentals.  He has to be focused on the game plan, the D and putting up points.  He has to be focused on leading and firing up his teammates.  If he's struggling within himself and not playing as he knows he's capable, he's not going to be an effective player or leader.  The game is hard enough without one's attention being divided, and when you're struggling with fundamentals, your attention is definitely divided.

 

I'm a professional singer and a voice teacher.  There are certain basic fundamentals and techniques for classical singers.  It is an athletic-type endeavor, and there are very close parallels between that and sports.  I can go into a lot of detail if you want, but don't think that most here are interested in a voice lesson.   Being told that one needs to change some of those basic fundamentals and techniques doesn't solve the problem.  When performing (be it in a game or a concert) we're under pressure, and when under pressure old habits and muscle memory take over.  When we need to change some of those habits or techniques, it takes focused practice over a period of time on those things solely to ingrain those techniques into muscle memory and the brain so that they happen naturally.  One can't simultaneously work on learning the notes and rhythms of new music, meeting the demands of the composer, being vocally expressive and communicating the message of the text (especially if one is singing in a foreign language and one isn't fluent in that language), being a good actor, singing with clear diction, and others aspects of performance when one needs to fix those basic fundamentals.  Those things have to wait until the fundamentals are fixed; otherwise, a singer will never be able to reach his full potential and perform as well as he would otherwise have been able.  There will be certain notes or roles he'll never be able to sing because he won't have the right technique/ability.  He'll always have a problem singing in tune or will wind up trashing his voice and having a shorter, less effective career because of those shortcomings.  

 

When one is struggling with those techniques/fundamentals, one isn't truly comfortable and confident.  One either has to think too much about those things to the extent that one can't even begin to make music (play freely, confidently) and be expressive, or one sings and tries one's best to make music, but because of the poor/questionable fundamentals, one won't succeed very well (in the case of a QB will throw interceptions, will struggle, not play confidently or inspire confidence or lead his teammates well because his own confidence is suffering), and one won't appear to be very talented or perform anywhere near his/her best.  The brain can only focus on 1-2 things at a time.  Any more than that and the head starts swimming and little goes right.  That's why Geno is suddenly inaccurate and throwing picks.  He's struggling with his footwork and timing while trying to read the D and find open receivers.  

 

Early in my career I went through those same struggles, I have seen them in hundreds of colleagues and friends, have seen them in my voice students over 20 years, and have read many singer biographies where singers spoke of these struggles.

 

I don't think it was over with Sanchez' pick 6 vs Detroit, because he bounced back and played pretty well after that, because we know that Rex loves and believes in Sanchez, and based on the comments that Mornhinweg and Lee have made recently, they seem to think that at this point Sanchez gives them the best chance to win because Geno just isn't ready.  In a non-pressured situation (practice), they've seen Geno's talent and what he does better than Sanchez, but those things don't show up as well or clearly in games because of the pressure and then Geno reverts back to old habits and his play suffers.  Conversely, they know that Sanchez has accuracy problems, has little poise in the pocket, but at least he's not struggling with the basics of the postion...taking the snap from under center, having to focus on the correct number of steps and throwing on the right step and right timing, reading Ds while dropping back, etc.  He's free to try to read the D, make a good decision, then hopefully make a good throw.  In this situation, when healthy, Sanchez DOES give them the best chance to succeed (at least over Geno).  Perhaps McElroy might give them a better chance to win now, even with a noodle arm.  In time, even Simms might give them the best chance.  He has his own issues to work through.  I would think that Lee and Mornhinweg don't see him as even close to Geno and Sanchez at this point, or they'd have included him in the competition for the starting position. They are new to the team.  They didn't draft or bring in any of them.  They don't have any stake in who the starter is, they just want the QB who can play the best and give the team the best chance to win.  Their words and Geno's play are what enabled me to make the determination I did.

 

Bleeding Green?

[JoeKlecko]

Bleeding Green?

 

Huh?