CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Is it possible for a guy on pace for 45 turnovers, through his first 4 NFL games, to turn into a good QB someday (or even a so-so QB), or does that stat on its face make such a thing impossible? ser question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Is it possible for a guy on pace for 45 turnovers, through his first 4 NFL games, to turn into a good QB someday (or even a so-so QB), or does that stat on its face make such a thing impossible? Well, when you say it that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It would be interesting to see the research on it. I know Elway had problems early in his career - but I doubt they were this bad. Guys 4 games tells almost SQUAT Manning has 11 INT's in his first 4 games... pay attention to the kinds of mistakes he's making, and how he's playing in other areas of the game.. I've been down on Geno all along cause he is way late in his decisions... this will absolutely kill him over the year if not improved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Guys 4 games tells almost SQUAT Manning has 11 INT's in his first 4 games... pay attention to the kinds of mistakes he's making Can live with the INT's(first play of the game cant happen) but the back peddling fumbles and taking safeties is a guy who cant be on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Can live with the INT's(first play of the game cant happen) but the back peddling fumbles and taking safeties is a guy who cant be on the field. He can't and shouldn't be on the field, I've been consistent in that opinion.. BUT Idzik and Ryan combined forces and screwed the pooch and here we are.... So now we are left to wonder how he responds to this. Unfortunately, I am not optimistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 BP is worse as at the internets then Geno Smith is at QB'ing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Guys 4 games tells almost SQUAT Manning has 11 INT's in his first 4 games... pay attention to the kinds of mistakes he's making, and how he's playing in other areas of the game.. I've been down on Geno all along cause he is way late in his decisions... this will absolutely kill him over the year if not improved th eproblem with the interceptions is that they are either horrible decision where th eguy just has no vision or they are terribly inaccurate throws. he overthrows and underthrows receivers at a good clip. we are looking at a qb with poor field awareness overall, bad accuracy, who makes very bad decisions with the ball. i don't know if there is much upside with this guy.....occasionally he makes a nice looking throw but its more the exception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He can't and shouldn't be on the field, I've been consistent in that opinion.. BUT Idzik and Ryan combined forces and screwed the pooch and here we are.... So now we are left to wonder how he responds to this. Unfortunately, I am not optimistic Sitting this week would be a good move. Its a game he wont do well in anyway. Let him take a breather and begin to work on getting rid of the ball or getting outside the pocket earlier. If Geno were a RB, he would be benched on his fumbles alone this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 th eproblem with the interceptions is that they are either horrible decision where th eguy just has no vision or they are terribly inaccurate throws. he overthrows and underthrows receivers at a good clip. we are looking at a qb with poor field awareness overall, bad accuracy, who makes very bad decisions with the ball. i don't know if there is much upside with this guy.....occasionally he makes a nice looking throw but its more the exception meh, most of it is being late in his reads.. His brain is too slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 BP is worse as at the internets then Geno Smith is at QB'ing... But good enough to advise you on fixing your lawn before you sold your house? sucking at the internet is nothing to be ashamed of. I look at Jif on here all the time, and it doesnt bother him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Sitting this week would be a good move. Its a game he wont do well in anyway. Let him take a breather and begin to work on getting rid of the ball or getting outside the pocket earlier. If Geno were a RB, he would be benched on his fumbles alone this week. Rex and MM need to gauge the psychology of it, imo really wish sanchez could've started till the bye.. would've been much more interesting to see Geno late in the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 But good enough to advise you on fixing your lawn before you sold your house? sucking at the internet is nothing to be ashamed of. I look at Jif on here all the time, and it doesnt bother him. As an internet poster you make a good landscaper.. Speaking of which, crabgrass was sucky this year.. all the rain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 As an internet poster you make a good landscaper.. Speaking of which, crabgrass was sucky this year.. all the rain? Yeah, it dilutes the crabgrass pre-emergent you put down in the spring. just spray it and seed it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Rex and MM need to gauge the psychology of it, imo really wish sanchez could've started till the bye.. would've been much more interesting to see Geno late in the year I never really bought into the theory of treating a young QB like a baby. Testeverde had the worst young career ever and almost lead the Jets to the Super Bowl. If you cant handle a benching, you probably cant handle the 4th quarter of a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, it dilutes the crabgrass pre-emergent you put down in the spring. just spray it and seed it now. spray with weed killer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 11 turnovers in 4 games...on pace for 44 He is an Achiever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I never really bought into the theory of treating a young QB like a baby. Testeverde had the worst young career ever and almost lead the Jets to the Super Bowl. If you cant handle a benching, you probably cant handle the 4th quarter of a playoff game. I agree to a large extent, but certainly you can improve the psychology of a player to the point where he can handle pressure better. Sanchez was always a man baby, Rex coddled him, and he's still a man baby today. IN retrospect, it would've been better to see him handled a little tougher perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 spray with weed killer? No, crabgrass is very close in similarity to regular grass. it is not a ''broad leaf weed''. you wouldn't be able to buy the sh*t I would use. just seed it now and when the first frost comes it will die anyway. (free advice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No, crabgrass is very close in similarity to regular grass. it is not a ''broad leaf weed''. you wouldn't be able to buy the sh*t I would use. just seed it now and when the first frost comes it will die anyway. (free advice) I will tell my hippy landscaper, he's cheap but doesn't know sh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 btw.. what is this sh*t with putting all these fruits in beers lately.. I ran out of my beer and am drinking my girlfriends "harvest pumpkin ale".. the other day in the store i saw strawberry ale. Does anyone like this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I never really bought into the theory of treating a young QB like a baby. Testeverde had the worst young career ever and almost lead the Jets to the Super Bowl. If you cant handle a benching, you probably cant handle the 4th quarter of a playoff game. I am a believer in giving a QB a clipboard until he's digested the playbook and the game begins to slow down for him a bit. Some QBs don't need the xtra time, some learn more slowly and need reps. Testaverde was a slow learner, as is geno and Sanchez , Luck is more able to hit te ground running. It's unique to the individual. How often do we see a rookie or sophomore QB regress badly the following year? It's because they are expected to run a larger portion of te playbook, read more, adjust more. geno wasn't ready for this. It's not babying to evaluate a player and keep him on ice until he's able to be a contributor instead of a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I am a believer in giving a QB a clipboard until he's digested the playbook and the game begins to slow down for him a bit. Some QBs don't need the xtra time, some learn more slowly and need reps. Testaverde was a slow learner, as is geno and Sanchez , Luck is more able to hit te ground running. It's unique to the individual. How often do we see a rookie or sophomore QB regress badly the following year? It's because they are expected to run a larger portion of te playbook, read more, adjust more. geno wasn't ready for this. It's not babying to evaluate a player and keep him on ice until he's able to be a contributor instead of a liability. I agree with letting him sit and learn. I dont think this needs to be done for confidence though because confidence is built up and ripped down within minutes, then built up again in football. But I do think he should be sitting. Lets see what Simms has in the meantime. This is why that Gerrard signing not working out hurt this whole situation really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 This was a day full of examples of traits that your franchise QB should not have. With that said, how do we not run 200% more in the first half?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It would be interesting to see the research on it. I know Elway had problems early in his career - but I doubt they were this bad. ser question? Yeah I'm serious. People are going off like it's never been done before. CTM mentioned the person I had in mind in his next post. Peyton Manning had 11 turnovers in his first 4 games. He was therefore on pace for 44 turnovers. 2 of those first 11 turnovers were pick-6's. He threw a grand total of 3 TDs in those first 4 games. Two were in garbage time and the other was a dumpoff to Marshall Faulk that he took 75 yards. He was barely completing half his passes, and I don't remember anyone complaining that it was artificially low because of a lot of drops by the likes of Clyde Gates. Manning balanced that spectacular absence of playmaking with his arm by making no plays with his feet either. If the pressure was there, he took a sack or threw a pick. He was a freaking rookie, and at that was a far more polished one than Smith coming out of school. He didn't "look good but was just making a couple of careless errors due to any experience" -- far from it. In that first month he looked more like a future bust than a future star. He provided legitimate justification why people weren't sure if he or Ryan Leaf was the better draft pick. He was not making good decisions nor was he showing good accuracy nor did he look composed. The best rookie QB at that point was probably Charlie Batch. He also had on his offense: Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk, Ken Dilger, and Marcus Pollard (and a couple of other less heralded, but still legit NFL-talent WRs). Plenty to work with. With all that, the team didn't score 20 points until his 6th game. Now there is no way Geno Smith is going to have Peyton Manning's career. Smith might not even be the starting QB 2-4 weeks from now. If he plays no better than he has, he won't be and shouldn't be. But I've seen some awful rookie QB'ing and Manning was awful. I was at the game when we played against him in his first month and I'm sure others here remember as well. He looked ridiculous out there and we (appropriately) took much delight in it. The point is not that Smith is going to be a good QB if we just give him more of a chance, but rather that we are not contenders this year. So see what he has & see if he bounces back. If he isn't "the guy" make sure of it. If it's more of the same in the upcoming games, then give Simms a look for the 2nd half of the season. (But under no circumstances should Sanchez - who is getting cut before next season anyway - ever take the field again for the Jets.) Give ample time to see what Smith has and if he has shown no improvement in the first 8 games (give or take), then see what Simms has. If Simms is the same or worse, we're drafting another QB in April. Geno (or Simms) can still be the QB of the future, but they'll then have to beat out each other and whoever else we draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 11 turnovers in 4 games...on pace for 44 Maybe he will beat Sanchez's career number in one year. Could that be why he is still in there? You know in Peyton's rookie year he was on pace for 44 ints and only wound up with 28...he seemed to turn out okay. You can't simply just look at turnovers for a rookie, you need to look at if he's developing and how he bounces back from those mistakes. It is possible for a rookie to get better after only the first four games of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He shouldnt be starting right now. I dont remember Manning looking so dumb on so many occasions as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 the stupidity in this thread is epic especially the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He shouldnt be starting right now. I dont remember Manning looking so dumb on so many occasions as a rookie. That's most likely because it was 15 years ago and he's had a decade+ of excellence to make up for it. He threw 11 interceptions on 140 attempts in his first four games: there's simply no way that you or anyone else could honestly say that he looked completely poised and collected when he was chucking and ducking to the tune of 28 ints his first year. People were calling for him to be benched and the FO to be axed for drafting him. It's 100% revisionist history if anyone says that they knew he was gonna be a stud watching him then. This is not to say that Geno can turn the ball over 28 times and I'd be okay with it, I'm merely stating that it's hardly the first time we've seen a rookie QB struggle; you just have to wait to see how he responds. And by the way, Geno is on pace to throw the ball 530+ times, so a little perspective must be taken as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yes, I was the one that edited the title. Just go tired of reading balls on the main index lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 the stupidity in this thread is epic especially the OP For reals, a rookie qb going through rookie pains is getting called to be benched? Seriously? The iq in this thread is off the charts, for all the people calling for Smith to be benched and us to draft a rookie qb next year, you do realize that if we draft a rookie qb next year he's going to be going through the same growing pains as Smith? SMH, you guys are expecting way to much from a rookie qb. The kid's throwing a lot and was getting hammered out their. Many qb's would have struggled with the defense he was facing, much less a rookie. You've gotta give the kid time to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yes, I was the one that edited the title. Just go tired of reading balls on the main index lol. You prefer the Braille way of reading balls I take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Good point. I would like to see this defense with even a serviceable QB who could consistently move the ball and keep the turnovers down though. then McElroy is your man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Rookie quarterback pressed into service too early struggling on bad team comedically devoid of talent? No WAY. You people should be more distressed that Jake Locker looked like Dan Marino until he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I begged for the guy not to start till at least after the bye week cause he wasn't ready, 90% of you disagreed. I still see more in him than I ever saw in Mark. The year is a bust regardless. You don't pull him now that he's in, if he sucks that bad we'll be able to draft a guy. If you think Matt Simms is the answer you're an a$$hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Geno is like Sanchez was in his first year. Sanchez also showed athleticism, was loosy goosy running around, loosy goosy with the ball, and started turning it over. (Sanchez, in his second or third game, also had a nice TD run against N.O. Saints, diving with ball over goalline, like Geno did last week). But then Sanchez became a turnover machine, and since we had a good defense and running game, he became conservative and robotized, and remained robotized ever since. (yet, still managed to turn the ball over a lot). We have to be careful not to do the same to Geno. It's funny, because on that first fumble yesterday, when he started running for that first down on that third down play, I was saying to myself - "it's so cool we have an athletic qb who can run for a first down", and just as I thought it, the ball came flying out... That happy moment was so short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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