slats Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 there 1st and 2nd to move up a few slots to draft sanchez who probably would of been on the board when it was jets pick. but anyway . a 2nd round pick is a 95% chance of becoming a starter, You must of forgot what tanny did to get Tim tebow. come on there wasnt a draft that he called the shots that he didnt give up at least a 1/4 of our draft picks to move up a few slots. why u think he got fired. he neglected Depth. and the JETS are paying for it now. thank god for a few UDFA like snacks and a few late round steals like anotnio allen, and REX is why the JETS are competetive . Tanny is a good contract negotiator but a terible GM. DO u even want me to mention Bret Favre. i didnt think so. Tanny had tunnel vision when it came to april He really isn't a good contract negotiator, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sanchez is bona fide horrible now, but it would've been interesting to see how Sanchez would've developed if he had an OC like MM in his rookie season. I think Marty couldve made him into a good QB. He doesn't have a poor work ethic and he's not an ahole. People were criticizing Schitty back in 2009. Heck, a lot of people thought it was stupid that Mike T made Rex keep him as OC rather than clean house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think Marty couldve made him into a good QB. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Agreed Would have at least been interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Would have at least been interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 It wouldnt have. But watching Marty confuse the hell out of Atlantas D last night vs. Sporano's wing-t was like watching a different sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Joey Harrington never sniffed the playoffs let alone serve as an integral part of several post season wins. Look I know you're super duper stoked about Geno being the bestest evar but settle down... lets see if a pattern develops or if last nights game was an anomoly. I'm excited about Genos progression but can still tip my cap to the QB who played fantastic playoff games for us. Tip your mushroom cap, more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Geno just so happened to get here when David Lee and Marty got here. He's in a very good position. Doubt this would be the same with Sparano or Schotty....just ask Sam Bradford. You mean the Sam Bradford who's numbers have actually improved in every category except completion percentage, where the drop is statistically insignificant (< 2% off his rookie year), since Shotty arrived? http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13197/sam-bradford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sanchez is bona fide horrible now, but it would've been interesting to see how Sanchez would've developed if he had an OC like MM in his rookie season. I think Marty couldve made him into a good QB. He doesn't have a poor work ethic and he's not an ahole. People were criticizing Schitty back in 2009. Heck, a lot of people thought it was stupid that Mike T made Rex keep him as OC rather than clean house. Sanchez might not have been the level of a disaster that he is with better coaching, but I think it's a tad extreme to say MM would have made him anything close to a "good QB". There is still plenty of work to be done with Geno, but just consider the number of areas that Geno is already superior now to what Sanchez ever was in his 4 years as starter. Geno is already more accurate in every sense of the word. Everything from downfield passes like the topic of this thread, to overall accuracy such as Geno's current 60% being better than any season of Sanchez's and last night's 80% being better than any game Sanchez has ever had in his entire NFL career, or simply the ability to properly lead a receiver which Sanchez could never do. Schitty may have been a crappy ass OC, you won't have me argue otherwise, but I cannot possibly believe that he's responsible for Sanchez having absolutly horrid ball placement throughout the entirety of his NFL career. I'm not sure there's anything that any coach could have done about that. He might not have turned out as bad, but he still wouldn't have been particularly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 You mean the Sam Bradford who's numbers have actually improved in every category except completion percentage, where the drop is statistically insignificant (< 2% off his rookie year), since Shotty arrived? http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13197/sam-bradford It's even actually a nice bit of improvement over what Bradford was doing the year prior to Schotty's arrival (2011). Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sanchez might not have been the level of a disaster that he is with better coaching, but I think it's a tad extreme to say MM would have made him anything close to a "good QB". There is still plenty of work to be done with Geno, but just consider the number of areas that Geno is already superior now to what Sanchez ever was in his 4 years as starter. Geno is already more accurate in every sense of the word. Everything from downfield passes like the topic of this thread, to overall accuracy such as Geno's current 60% being better than any season of Sanchez's and last night's 80% being better than any game Sanchez has ever had in his entire NFL career, or simply the ability to properly lead a receiver which Sanchez could never do. Schitty may have been a crappy ass OC, you won't have me argue otherwise, but I cannot possibly believe that he's responsible for Sanchez having absolutly horrid ball placement throughout the entirety of his NFL career. I'm not sure there's anything that any coach could have done about that. He might not have turned out as bad, but he still wouldn't have been particularly good. I don't necessarily disagree, but it's the classic nature vs. nurture argument. Geno has physical gifts Sanchez doesn't have and he has more collegiate experience, so they're different prospects. But I think MM would've done a better job of managing the rookie Sanchez than Schitty did. They never would've done the Redlight, greenlight, go wristband nonsense. When Rex brought it up this week and then quickly backtracked because of MM. MM sucked as a HC, but he has always been a good OC. He possibly could've coached the stupid out of Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't necessarily disagree, but it's the classic nature vs. nurture argument. Geno has physical gifts Sanchez doesn't have and he has more collegiate experience, so they're different prospects. But I think MM would've done a better job of managing the rookie Sanchez than Schitty did. They never would've done the Redlight, greenlight, go wristband nonsense. When Rex brought it up this week and then quickly backtracked because of MM. MM sucked as a HC, but he has always been a good OC. He possibly could've coached the stupid out of Sanchez. Yeah, I hear you, Mornhinweg probably would have done better with a bad situation than Schitty's stupid ass ever did. I also think there's only so much anyone could have done with Sanchez, and that's still not a whole lot (note to Pac, Smash, etc: we're talking ability/production as a passer here, not team success). Keep in mind, even in the concept of the "nature vs nurture" debate, by the time a player gets to the NFL there's been a whole lot of years of "nurture" going on by lots of other people before the NFL coaches ever gets their hands on them. It's like giving some foster parents a 16 year old kid, there's only so much you can do to change the kid at that point and a very small window in which to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I dont know about that, i rather take my chances with a 1st and 2nd rounder becoming nfl caliber players then just a top 10 first round. yeah with Sanchez the JETS made it to 2 afc championships, but with a revis and the way the defense was playing any Qb had a 50/50 of pulling out the upset. All im saying is JETS never had depth because of Tanny. gave up to much to get the player he needed and wanted. kind of like what the vikings did to get hershal walker from dallas. that trade is what gave dallas those 3 rings they won in that era. look it up if u dont believe me. I disagree completely. We obviously liked Sanchez a lot. When you like a QB a lot, you do what it takes to get him. It backfired, but I'm not going to criticise the team for making the move, it's too easy to that with hindsight, at the time I was excited as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't necessarily disagree, but it's the classic nature vs. nurture argument. Geno has physical gifts Sanchez doesn't have and he has more collegiate experience, so they're different prospects. But I think MM would've done a better job of managing the rookie Sanchez than Schitty did. They never would've done the Redlight, greenlight, go wristband nonsense. When Rex brought it up this week and then quickly backtracked because of MM. MM sucked as a HC, but he has always been a good OC. He possibly could've coached the stupid out of Sanchez. Agreed, he certainly would have looked better. Sanchez had pretty awful accuracy, but he was rarely helped by the fact that he was constantly throwing to covered recievers. I mean that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yeah, I hear you, Mornhinweg probably would have done better with a bad situation than Schitty's stupid ass ever did. Schotty did great with a bad situation in Mangini's first year. We had a great innovative offense which was the talk of the NFL and went to the playoffs. Shouldn't take that way from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Schotty did great with a bad situation in Mangini's first year. We had a great innovative offense which was the talk of the NFL and went to the playoffs. Shouldn't take that way from himThat 2006 season was not a bad situation. Chad was completely healthy that year which changes the whole dynamic. They as a team were more healthy than year before and had 2 first rounders and Pete Kendall on online. Schitty was known for all the presnap movement which confused the O as much as opposing D. Schitty had to stop that. Schitty's O have never done well statistically and he was considered a wunderkind then as an OC prospect rather than actual production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That 2006 season was not a bad situation. Chad was completely healthy that year which changes the whole dynamic. They as a team were more healthy than year before and had 2 first rounders and Pete Kendall on online. Schitty was known for all the presnap movement which confused the O as much as opposing D. Schitty had to stop that. Schitty's O have never done well statistically and he was considered a wunderkind then as an OC prospect rather than actual production You say that now, but at the time, nobody expected anything from that team, and it was the offense that carried us to the playoffs that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drums Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Guys hate to break it to you but Sanchez is GONE. It's time to move on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm just now reading the first few posts in this thread. Am I correct that it evolved into, "Sanchez would be doing the same thing if he had Marty Mornhinweg as his OC. He doesn't have to actually do anything, or ever indicate that he can, for me to say this, but I know it as well as I know my own name."? A QB who can't hit open receivers, and who - 4 years into his career - is always 1-2 seconds late at recognizing a player is open, is not an NFL QB. Mark thinks too slowly. No coaching is going to fix his brain. Knowing what you're supposed to do on paper, and actually doing them on the field, are 2 different things. If it wasn't, then all QB coaches would be top-5 QBs. He would float passes that needed more oomph and fire fastballs in from 5 yards away (off-target fastballs, leaving already-poor receivers like Greene with no time to react to the errant throw). I don't know what an offensive coordinator is going to do with a QB who sees his wide open man with his hands cupping an empty space in front of his numbers, 5-7 yards away from the passer, and said passer still rifles it in 50-55mph above the receiver's head. Personally I think another year at USC would have exposed a lot of these flaws and he never would have been a top 10 pick (if he was even taken in the first round or two, depending on how exposed he got). Sanchez didn't have NO talent physically, but he didn't have much in terms of the whole package. He can throw a football, but he can't routinely have it land where he wants it to land. He also stares guys covered (stares them down while not pulling the trigger, giving a safety enough time to aid in coverage or enough time for the original defender to recover from a good initial move), leading to apologists claiming no one is open. Even commentators - particularly ex-QBs like Simms who always seek to absolve the QB - would say "There was nowhere to go with that ball," even while showing the overhead shot that clearly showed 2 guys who were wide open, at least 1 still running with the DB beat by 1-2 yards, sometimes more. Good for Geno. A lot of his COMPLETED passes early-on were off-target. Good enough to be completed, yes, but they were clearly behind the receivers in their placement. In hindsight, it's tolerable for an unready rookie because he's not adjusting to his players' speed or is being too hesitant from nerves or being unsure of what he's seeing, but he had to (has to) fix it. When the coverage is tight, you can't be behind by a half to a full yard, when you should be leading him by a foot or two, as Mark has demonstrated for 4 years. This past game Geno was dead on target. Was great to see. I have no idea if there's more to come or if it was a fluke game, but THAT is what makes a great passer a great passer. The ability to throw completions even when the coverage is tight. Look at what Matt Ryan was doing with Jones & Gonzo. Those guys are great receivers, but the throws had to fit into a one-foot hole and that's where Ryan put it. If you're off by 3 feet it's an interception. Sanchez will never, and could never, be that QB. He just doesn't have that kind of talent and you can't coach or coordinate someone into being more talented than he is. All a coordinator can do is hide it better. Way more than I intended to write. Sanchez sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm just now reading the first few posts in this thread. Am I correct that it evolved into, "Sanchez would be doing the same thing if he had Marty Mornhinweg as his OC. He doesn't have to actually do anything, or ever indicate that he can, for me to say this, but I know it as well as I know my own name."? A QB who can't hit open receivers, and who - 4 years into his career - is always 1-2 seconds late at recognizing a player is open, is not an NFL QB. Mark thinks too slowly. No coaching is going to fix his brain. Knowing what you're supposed to do on paper, and actually doing them on the field, are 2 different things. If it wasn't, then all QB coaches would be top-5 QBs. He would float passes that needed more oomph and fire fastballs in from 5 yards away (off-target fastballs, leaving already-poor receivers like Greene with no time to react to the errant throw). I don't know what an offensive coordinator is going to do with a QB who sees his wide open man with his hands cupping an empty space in front of his numbers, 5-7 yards away from the passer, and said passer still rifles it in 50-55mph above the receiver's head. Personally I think another year at USC would have exposed a lot of these flaws and he never would have been a top 10 pick (if he was even taken in the first round or two, depending on how exposed he got). Sanchez didn't have NO talent physically, but he didn't have much in terms of the whole package. He can throw a football, but he can't routinely have it land where he wants it to land. He also stares guys covered (stares them down while not pulling the trigger, giving a safety enough time to aid in coverage or enough time for the original defender to recover from a good initial move), leading to apologists claiming no one is open. Even commentators - particularly ex-QBs like Simms who always seek to absolve the QB - would say "There was nowhere to go with that ball," even while showing the overhead shot that clearly showed 2 guys who were wide open, at least 1 still running with the DB beat by 1-2 yards, sometimes more. Good for Geno. A lot of his COMPLETED passes early-on were off-target. Good enough to be completed, yes, but they were clearly behind the receivers in their placement. In hindsight, it's tolerable for an unready rookie because he's not adjusting to his players' speed or is being too hesitant from nerves or being unsure of what he's seeing, but he had to (has to) fix it. When the coverage is tight, you can't be behind by a half to a full yard, when you should be leading him by a foot or two, as Mark has demonstrated for 4 years. This past game Geno was dead on target. Was great to see. I have no idea if there's more to come or if it was a fluke game, but THAT is what makes a great passer a great passer. The ability to throw completions even when the coverage is tight. Look at what Matt Ryan was doing with Jones & Gonzo. Those guys are great receivers, but the throws had to fit into a one-foot hole and that's where Ryan put it. If you're off by 3 feet it's an interception. Sanchez will never, and could never, be that QB. He just doesn't have that kind of talent and you can't coach or coordinate someone into being more talented than he is. All a coordinator can do is hide it better. Way more than I intended to write. Sanchez sucks. Couldn't help but laugh at the bold. As I was reading this post, I was wondering if your goal was simply to write a post that rambled on even longer than I already had to get to that same very simple conclusion. Keep in mind, that's no easy task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 So anyway, Sanchez isn't playing this year, but Geno is more accurate downfield than Andrew Luck, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning,and Aaron Rodgers. How about them apples?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 LOL, Sperm had that post saved in Word and was waiting for the right strawman opportunity to post it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 LOL, Sperm had that post saved in Word and was waiting for the right strawman opportunity to post it Nah, but looking now I can't believe how long it was. I can freaking ramble on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Nah, but looking now I can't believe how long it was. I can freaking ramble on. Yeah, I hate when people do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You mean the Sam Bradford who's numbers have actually improved in every category except completion percentage, where the drop is statistically insignificant (< 2% off his rookie year), since Shotty arrived? http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13197/sam-bradford Actually yea, that Sam Bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Who was it that said Geno didn't have a strong arm? Someone here said that... He said it over...and over...and over...and over...and over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Actually yea, that Sam Bradford. Just checking. Cause I thought your point was about Schotty ruining QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Just checking. Cause I thought your point was about Schotty ruining QBs. Actually my point was that Schotty ruins offenses including QB's now that Sanchez is on his list. The stats are the stats, my point is that Schotty doesnt put together a uniform, organized, confident unpredictable offense. And though Bradford's stats are "better" it seems like he along with the other people "grumbling" out there in St. Louis feels like a change needs to be made and it seems like its the OC. This is why I stated "Ask Sam Bradford". It had nothing to do with the stats persay. Schotty sucks, please dont be that dude to defend that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Bradford's numbers have also improved despite no real semblance of a running game. Granted, they did add Jared Cook and Tavon Austin, but other than 1 big week out of Cook, those 2 guys really haven't made a huge impact. Schotty definitely still sucks however. Mark Sanchez, who sucks way worse at HIS job, told him so. That's all we need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Actually my point was that Schotty ruins offenses including QB's now that Sanchez is on his list. The stats are the stats, my point is that Schotty doesnt put together a uniform, organized, confident unpredictable offense. And though Bradford's stats are "better" it seems like he along with the other people "grumbling" out there in St. Louis feels like a change needs to be made and it seems like its the OC. This is why I stated "Ask Sam Bradford". It had nothing to do with the stats persay. Schotty sucks, please dont be that dude to defend that. I don't defend Schotty, I attack the argument that he is the reason Mark Sanchez sucks. Those are very different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I don't defend Schotty, I attack the argument that he is the reason Mark Sanchez sucks. Those are very different things. he's A reason Mark Sanchez sucks. not THE reason. good coaches get the best out of their players. Schotty never seems to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tonytone_8809 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 He really isn't a good contract negotiator, either. I thought that was his strong suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tonytone_8809 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Difference between Sanchez and Geno so far is Geno is not losing confidence after a horrible loss. Also Geno's ability to throw the deep ball.. As for Sanchez, everything started going downhill after a few losses.. IMO Sanchez also played with no emotion what so ever. everytime he would get sacked or a loss on a play. he would be so non chalant about it. and that as a QB trickles down to the rest of the offense and team. This game is about the x's and o's but its also about adrenaline and emotions. Sanchez displayed 0 no matter what situation of the game they were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tonytone_8809 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 he's A reason Mark Sanchez sucks. not THE reason. good coaches get the best out of their players. Schotty never seems to do that. schotty is not even worth a debate, the dude is a terrible play caller. Horrible clueless, sucks. I always thought he was getting $$$$ under the table from the other team ,with some of the plays he called. I really did. no joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 he's A reason Mark Sanchez sucks. not THE reason. good coaches get the best out of their players. Schotty never seems to do that. Ummm, how do we know that what we saw wasn't Mark Sanchez's best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.