BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 True, but I've always heard that ILBs in a 3-4 alignment are not generally considered 1st round picks anyway since they have to take on OL, plug gaps in the run game, and aren't real playmakers. That was the intentions of my post, but you are correct. With Davis playing well, they should begin to think about finding harris' replacement soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't know much about offensive playmakers or the draft let alone football. Now its fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC36 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 This is cute. JoeWilly12 and and JoeKlecko editing each others posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 This is cute. JoeWilly12 and and JoeKlecko editing each others posts. He did it first I know its childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC36 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 He did it first I know its childish. You guys can do it all night. I think it's cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Once again Nick Barlotta in right on target. Welcome to NY Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Once again Nick Barlotta in right on target. Welcome to NY Josh Not as close as we where to signing Payton Amirite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Not as close as we where to signing Payton Amirite. Or Aso. These insider tips are fantastic. Never miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Now its fixed. Drat! Now my secret is out and everyone will know. Boo Hoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Gordon is worth the #1 there wont be a decent WR left when we choose late in round 1 anyway. Late ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Late ? #32 pick. Duh. The irony is if we pick late enough, maybe it convinces the team we don't need to draft a pass-catcher. Seriously, though, the team is not doomed because they didn't make a deal for Gordon this week. Truth is, whatever deal they could have made in October can also be made in March or April fi the team wants him that badly. Obviously there are other WRs to be had through the draft. That list that JoeKlecko posted was horrible (no offense to him; the list is the list). I didn't see any #1 WRs in there except Nicks who is the epitome of unreliability (both in health and hands). There are question marks about draft picks and question marks about someone who likes extracurricular activities the league frowns upon. At least the question marks on the latter don't include "Will he be elite as an NCAA-level talent only?" We're going to go the former route, it would seem, to find that "it" guy pass-catcher (whether at WR or TE). The list had some #2 types that were ok that we wouldn't have to break the bank on. We have PLENTY of cap room; I just hate throwing around #1 money at a #2 type. The only exception might be Decker, but I still wouldn't give him #1 money before showing he can be a #1 WR. He's had Thomas opposite him for 3 years, Welker AND Thomas this current season, and for this year & last year Peyton Manning has been throwing him the ball. His hands have also been suspect. That doesn't mean he can't be a true #1; it just means he hasn't been one yet because he hasn't had to be one yet. I'm leery of throwing #1 money at a guy who has never been one yet. Let someone else throw #1 money at Peerless Price (or Santonio Holmes for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looking at the Jets 2014 cap page is sick. They can cut the top 6 guys on the list with no real problem. Cro, Sanchez and Holmes should all be gone IMO. Then Harris at $5M savings, Dawan Landry and Goodson. $34M in savings right off the top and you just need to replace an ILB and S. I like Harris, but I don't think anybody from Harris up sticks without a restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 #32 pick. Duh. The irony is if we pick late enough, maybe it convinces the team we don't need to draft a pass-catcher. Seriously, though, the team is not doomed because they didn't make a deal for Gordon this week. Truth is, whatever deal they could have made in October can also be made in March or April fi the team wants him that badly. Obviously there are other WRs to be had through the draft. That list that JoeKlecko posted was horrible (no offense to him; the list is the list). I didn't see any #1 WRs in there except Nicks who is the epitome of unreliability (both in health and hands). There are question marks about draft picks and question marks about someone who likes extracurricular activities the league frowns upon. At least the question marks on the latter don't include "Will he be elite as an NCAA-level talent only?" We're going to go the former route, it would seem, to find that "it" guy pass-catcher (whether at WR or TE). The list had some #2 types that were ok that we wouldn't have to break the bank on. We have PLENTY of cap room; I just hate throwing around #1 money at a #2 type. The only exception might be Decker, but I still wouldn't give him #1 money before showing he can be a #1 WR. He's had Thomas opposite him for 3 years, Welker AND Thomas this current season, and for this year & last year Peyton Manning has been throwing him the ball. His hands have also been suspect. That doesn't mean he can't be a true #1; it just means he hasn't been one yet because he hasn't had to be one yet. I'm leery of throwing #1 money at a guy who has never been one yet. Let someone else throw #1 money at Peerless Price (or Santonio Holmes for that matter). Since I don't keep up with the rest of the NFL very much, I can't speak one way or the other with any degree of certainty for any of the WRs or TEs on those lists, but I do think that there are some decent options on those lists that would upgrade the talent around Geno. I agree that there aren't any real #1 WRs on that list, but did you really expect there to be? How often do teams just let their #1 WR walk away unless they are older and want too much money, have serious off-field issues, or have injury issues. Idzik may decide that there's no one on either list that he cares to spend any of the available cap space on. If so, we have to hope that there are some OL, DBs, LBs and RBs that can help the team. I'll try to provide those lists within the next few days or so. Incidentally, I don't think that Decker is a #1 WR. IMO his hands are very suspect. I've seen him drop a ton of balls over the last couple of years. IMO, he's probably the least desirable WR on the whole list. I agree with you that I wouldn't want the Jets to give #1 WR money to a #2, but I don't think Idzik would ever do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looking at the Jets 2014 cap page is sick. They can cut the top 6 guys on the list with no real problem. Cro, Sanchez and Holmes should all be gone IMO. Then Harris at $5M savings, Dawan Landry and Goodson. $34M in savings right off the top and you just need to replace an ILB and S. I like Harris, but I don't think anybody from Harris up sticks without a restructure. The problem with restructures is that often you have to either guarantee big chunks of their remaining salary or structure the contract such that if you later decided to cut them, they cause big hits on the cap. I'd rather they not restructure any of those guys unless they can do it in such a way that they could cut them at a later date and not result in huge cap hits. After seeing the WR and TE FA lists I'm just not sure that there are any FAs that will be available for which the Jets will need all that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The problem with restructures is that often you have to either guarantee big chunks of their remaining salary or structure the contract such that if you later decided to cut them, they cause big hits on the cap. I'd rather they not restructure any of those guys unless they can do it in such a way that they could cut them at a later date and not result in huge cap hits. After seeing the WR and TE FA lists I'm just not sure that there are any FAs that will be available for which the Jets will need all that money. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can restructure a guy that you think has value and you are paying a bunch of dead money anyway. Guys are willing to take cuts when they know their value on the open market does not reach their current salary. Holmes did it this year. There is NO WAY on God's green earth I am paying that kind of money for Holmes, Sanchez or Cromartie next year. Sanchez is the only one that pretty much can't come back and would probably give zero help to the team as currently constructed. I probably don't want to pay Harris $5M either, but it's not a crazy number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looking at the Jets 2014 cap page is sick. They can cut the top 6 guys on the list with no real problem. Cro, Sanchez and Holmes should all be gone IMO. Then Harris at $5M savings, Dawan Landry and Goodson. $34M in savings right off the top and you just need to replace an ILB and S. I like Harris, but I don't think anybody from Harris up sticks without a restructure. I think Harris will restructure and stay with the team Goodson will only stick if rehab goes well the rest ALL need to go. The Safety Issue must be addressed. But I think Safety is one of the positions that could be easier to fill via free agency where you have some idea of what your getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think Harris will restructure and stay with the team Goodson will only stick if rehab goes well the rest ALL need to go. The Safety Issue must be addressed. But I think Safety is one of the positions that could be easier to fill via free agency where you have some idea of what your getting Considering what Goodson and Landry are making there isn't any reason to cut them unless they are not going to make the team. The others should be fairly easy to replace production for dollar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looking at the Jets 2014 cap page is sick. They can cut the top 6 guys on the list with no real problem. Cro, Sanchez and Holmes should all be gone IMO. Then Harris at $5M savings, Dawan Landry and Goodson. $34M in savings right off the top and you just need to replace an ILB and S. I like Harris, but I don't think anybody from Harris up sticks without a restructure. #Idzik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 You guys can do it all night. I think it's cute It's not nearly as cute as saying, "He did it first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 #Idzik #signed nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Couldn't they have resigned Revis and dumped all of the deadweight anyway? I realize Woody wanted him gonzo but in theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Couldn't they have resigned Revis and dumped all of the deadweight anyway? I realize Woody wanted him gonzo but in theory... Wow people just cant let Revis go. Idzik did the only correct move with him. You do not pay a CB franchise quarterback money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Wow people just cant let Revis go. Idzik did the only correct move with him. You do not pay a CB franchise quarterback money. The Jets dont have a franchise QB though. They have a rookie QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I hope this thread never dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Jets dont have a franchise QB though. They have a rookie QB. So it makes sense to pay franchise QB money to a player who's not even the best at his position, just because we don't have a franchise QB yet? Gotcha. Revis is getting paid 60% more this year than the 2nd highest paid cornerback. Think about that for a while. If you look at the list of the top 15 highest paid cornerbacks per year, I'd maybe pay one of them that contract, it's just not worth it and teams are finding that out. **Sorted by average contract per year. You can argue about paying Revis $16 mill all you want (and not mentioning that it would have cost us 19), but it's so hard to see it as anything other than ridiculous. Dude is getting paid 60% more than the next highest paid player, that's just absurd. What will be interesting to see is the type of contract Richard Sherman commands and if anyone will be stupid enough or if he's greedy enough to ask for $16 mill. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=CB Darrelle Revis - $16,000,000 Champ Bailey - $10,625,000 Brandon Carr - $10,020,000 Cortland Finnegan - $10,000,000 Leon Hall - $9,750,000 Brandon Flowers - $9,750,000 Johnathan Joseph - $9,750,000 Jason McCourty - $8,608,000 Lardarius Webb - $8,333,333 Tramon Williams - $8,250,000 Joe Haden - $8,011,348 Antonio Cromartie - $8,000,000 Carlos Rogers - $7,325,000 Ike Taylor - $7,000,000 Charles Tillman - $6,166,667 Cary Williams - $5,666,667 Sean Smith - $5,500,000 Brent Grimes - $5,500,000 Dimitri Patterson - $5,350,000 Jabari Greer - $5,275,000 Keenan Lewis - $5,110,000 Derek Cox - $5,000,000 Orlando Scandrick - $5,000,000 Chris Houston - $5,000,000 Aqib Talib - $5,000,000 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - $5,000,000 Asante Samuel - $4,900,000 Greg Toler - $4,750,000 Patrick Peterson - $4,607,375 Dunta Robinson - $4,600,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 So it makes sense to pay franchise QB money to a player who's not even the best at his position, just because we don't have a franchise QB yet? Gotcha. Revis is getting paid 60% more this year than the 2nd highest paid cornerback. Think about that for a while. If you look at the list of the top 15 highest paid cornerbacks per year, I'd maybe pay one of them that contract, it's just not worth it and teams are finding that out. **Sorted by average contract per year. You can argue about paying Revis $16 mill all you want (and not mentioning that it would have cost us 19), but it's so hard to see it as anything other than ridiculous. Dude is getting paid 60% more than the next highest paid player, that's just absurd. What will be interesting to see is the type of contract Richard Sherman commands and if anyone will be stupid enough or if he's greedy enough to ask for $16 mill. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=CB Revis not being the best at his position is arguable- especially if he were still a Jet, as he'd be playing his island role. But yeah- he's overpaid. The notion I'm confused with is though- who exactly deserves to be paid if you don't have a franchise QB? We're paying Nick Mangold a hell of a lot of money to play center. Ditto Santonio Holmes to stand on the sideline and sulk. Hopefully Idzik fixes this mess. The problem with the Jets is the paid they wrong players and didnt recognize how good Revis was earlier. Aaron Rodgers isnt walking though that door. Id rather have an OK center and pay Revis than vice versa. Why doesnt Mangold get sh*t for being greedy? Is he even good anymore? The guy is a phony imo and collecting a check. Never had Geno's back...and his absurdly overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Revis not being the best at his position is arguable- especially if he were still a Jet, as he'd be playing his island role. But yeah- he's overpaid. The notion I'm confused with is though- who exactly deserves to be paid if you don't have a franchise QB? We're paying Nick Mangold a hell of a lot of money to play center. Ditto Santonio Holmes to stand on the sideline and sulk. Hopefully Idzik fixes this mess. The problem with the Jets is the paid they wrong players and didnt recognize how good Revis was earlier. Aaron Rodgers isnt walking though that door. Id rather have an OK center and pay Revis than vice versa. Why doesnt Mangold get sh*t for being greedy? Is he even good anymore? The guy is a phony imo and collecting a check. Never had Geno's back...and his absurdly overpaid. So is D-Brick overpaid and not the player he used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Revis not being the best at his position is arguable- especially if he were still a Jet, as he'd be playing his island role. But yeah- he's overpaid. The notion I'm confused with is though- who exactly deserves to be paid if you don't have a franchise QB? We're paying Nick Mangold a hell of a lot of money to play center. Ditto Santonio Holmes to stand on the sideline and sulk. Hopefully Idzik fixes this mess. The problem with the Jets is the paid they wrong players and didnt recognize how good Revis was earlier. Aaron Rodgers isnt walking though that door. Id rather have an OK center and pay Revis than vice versa. Why doesnt Mangold get sh*t for being greedy? Is he even good anymore? The guy is a phony imo and collecting a check. Never had Geno's back...and his absurdly overpaid. Just because you have cap, doesn't mean you spend it. You save it so you can pay players who are actually worth it, like Wilkerson when it comes time, Kerley, Demario Davis in a year or two etc. If they want too much, then you hopefully have already drafted their replacement. Revis has already publicly stated that his knee isn't 100% and that he can't physically be on an island by himself for the duration of the game, so no, he wouldn't be his old self if he were here and we'd be paying him like he were. You don't pay for pass performance. As for Mangold, he's not even the top paid center per year, that's Ryan Kalil. Mangold's making $7.7 a year, which is very similar to what the other top 8 or so centers are making; of his $54 million dollar contract, only $16 of it is guaranteed, so he's not crippling the cap. Additionally, and I can't speak for this year as the numbers aren't out for a full season, but Mangold and Moore had very, very good years in the run game last year and both summed out very positively by PFF (so did Brick for that matter, he actually had the best season and our line graded out quite well). So you might think Mangold is a phony cashing checks, but the numbers argue against that. Additionally, he's not making 60% more than the second highest paid Center, he actually is the second highest paid center. He might be a bit overpaid, but he's getting paid far more to his skill and contribution level than Revis would be. The problem that bothers me is that despite Bit saying Revis is worth two wins on his own, you see how a top CB isn't going to win you games or get you to the playoffs on his own, having a QB or good team will. So just because we have cap space and are void of a franchise QB is not solid rational to just hand out stupid, cap-crippling contracts to players. Like oh, well, we don't have a QB and we have all this money, lets just give em whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 So is D-Brick overpaid and not the player he used to be. D'brick had a +23.5 rating on PFF last year, which shows that he actually had a very fine season. A lot of the time you thought you saw him struggling, it was more than likely Slauson or Sanchez making a mistake and the untrained eyes putting the onus on Brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Revis never said he can't play on an island...not sure where you got that from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Jets trying to build the perfect roster with money equally spread across positions is a fantasy. Calling 2013 a punt year, honestly is crap. Drafting defensive tackles and trying to convert them to guards is crap when the team has zero skill position talent. This 3 year rebuild is a total fantasy dependent on Aaron Rodgers walking through that door or a sale going on at the elite QB store. It ain't happening. The NFL across the board is weak. What are the Jets waiting for? Why not try and win a division? The NFL is a year to year business....there's zero guarantee the Jets are a better team next year than they are right now. The oh shucks- we need to let Milliner take his lumps on the field....no we dont. Sit his ass. Next man up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Jets trying to build the perfect roster with money equally spread across positions is a fantasy. Calling 2013 a punt year, honestly is crap. Drafting defensive tackles and trying to convert them to guards is crap when the team has zero skill position talent. This 3 year rebuild is a total fantasy dependent on Aaron Rodgers walking through that door or a sale going on at the elite QB store. It ain't happening. The NFL across the board is weak. What are the Jets waiting for? Why not try and win a division? The NFL is a year to year business....there's zero guarantee the Jets are a better team next year than they are right now. The oh shucks- we need to let Milliner take his lumps on the field....no we dont. Sit his ass. Next man up. Nobody builds for a year, especially with the salary cap being where it was. Extending the financial hurt to patch holes is how you drive a team into the ground via attrition, which is what Tannenbaum did twice. What Idzik is doing is building a foundational group of young players, then he'll supplement that group with select veteran free agents when/if they get closer to competing. The alternative was to let Revis play out his deal while rehabbing his knee and try to squeeze Alex Smith under the cap? Then scrap it and repeat the cycle next year? Let's face it--the fastest way to get good is to have an absolute free-fall year and hope to land Andrew Luck, Eli Mannjng, or Matt Ryan. This is that washout year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Nobody builds for a year, especially with the salary cap being where it was. Extending the financial hurt to patch holes is how you drive a team into the ground via attrition, which is what Tannenbaum did twice. What Idzik is doing is building a foundational group of young players, then he'll supplement that group with select veteran free agents when/if they get closer to competing. The alternative was to let Revis play out his deal while rehabbing his knee and try to squeeze Alex Smith under the cap? Then scrap it and repeat the cycle next year? Let's face it--the fastest way to get good is to have an absolute free-fall year and hope to land Andrew Luck, Eli Mannjng, or Matt Ryan. This is that washout year. Who's this foundation? Wilkerson and probably Richardson...two interior linemen. Real good players, not franchise players. Im not even talking about Revis per say....but Jets fans seem to be convincing themselves that cap space = success long term. There's nothing guaranteed in this league. Kansas City went 1-15 last year and is currently undefeated. If this is that washout year then we better start losing. Even after Idzik's first draft...the roster is awful. Not to keep banging the Revis drum...but with a new coach in place next year in Tampa...they'll be this years Chiefs. That roster is legit. Glennon has been quietly outplaying Geno too fwiw. Everyone's banking on the needle pointing up for the Jets. This team managed 6 wins last year and was awful. We just dont know....and we certainly dont have the luxury to draft backup olinemen in the middle rounds...especially with the WR's and TE's were trotting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Who's this foundation? Wilkerson and probably Richardson...two interior linemen. Real good players, not franchise players. Im not even talking about Revis per say....but Jets fans seem to be convincing themselves that cap space = success long term. There's nothing guaranteed in this league. Kansas City went 1-15 last year and is currently undefeated. If this is that washout year then we better start losing. Even after Idzik's first draft...the roster is awful. Not to keep banging the Revis drum...but with a new coach in place next year in Tampa...they'll be this years Chiefs. That roster is legit. Glennon has been quietly outplaying Geno too fwiw. This is the core next year: Offense-- Geno Ivory Powell Brick Winters Mangold Howard Kerley Defense-- Mo Richardson Coples (back to DE, most likely) Demario Davis Milliner (simply cannot be this bad) This is something worth building around, and will look nice with a decent draft and $50 mil worth of free agent signings. All the Tannenbaum sludge gets cast out and there's a clean slate to work with. There was no justifiable reason to try to string along a roster that simply wasn't working. As great as Revis was, his presence stopped helping this team win about three years ago. There was nothing to be gained by trying to fluff this team. As for Glennon, as you've said, he's doing what he's doing with a significantly better cast of players around him. Geno is essentially the only offensive player on the Jets worth game planning for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 This is the core next year: Offense-- Geno Ivory Powell Brick Winters Mangold Howard Kerley Defense-- Mo Richardson Coples (back to DE, most likely) Demario Davis Milliner (simply cannot be this bad) This is something worth building around, and will look nice with a decent draft and $50 mil worth of free agent signings. All the Tannenbaum sludge gets cast out and there's a clean slate to work with. There was no justifiable reason to try to string along a roster that simply wasn't working. As great as Revis was, his presence stopped helping this team win about three years ago. There was nothing to be gained by trying to fluff this team. As for Glennon, as you've said, he's doing what he's doing with a significantly better cast of players around him. Geno is essentially the only offensive player on the Jets worth game planning for. I hope Idzik know's what he's doing. We need an A draft in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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