Matt39 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, you're just wrong about this as you are wrong about most everything. There's some truth to it. What happens if Milliner actually sucks, Geno regresses and we blow the draft next year? at 4-4 now, you might as well try and make a playoff push, no? The NFL overall sucks. There's no great team. I thought that Bengals team was by far the best team we've seen all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Of course he's better. But DT was no more of a need than CB. Milliner was either higher on their board or it was not. Look at it this way, at least the Jets had Richardson as the #1 DT instead of the other 2 guys who these experts say we "should have" drafted (making Richardson a relative reach). True, fair point. This leads back to my "there's really no such thing as a reach" point. Each team has their own board. For all we know teams arent as high on Bridgewater as we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Not nice enough to leave me a little rep, though. What am I, chopped liver? F*cking a-hole. Consider it passive aggressive on my part. YOu're lucky I managed to get a compliment out at all... the whole time I was typing I was imaging ripping out your chest hair with duct tape and then spraying you with lemon juice, in slow motion, like a wet t-shirt contest of pure pain and anguish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 there's no such thing as a multi-year rebuild. The Jets are 4-4 now and 7th seed in the afc. the only year that matter is the current year. Oh, yeah there is. We typically refer to it as a "regime change". Every time a new coach is hired, it kicks off a re-build, re-tool, whatever semantic bullsh*t label you want to put on it. The reality is that every season there's only 1 team that achieves their goal. The rest approach the next 1-3 years from the standpoint of "what do we have to do to build a winner". The speed at which this goal can be accomplished depends entirely upon 1.) the starting point for the rebuild, and how much talent the team currently has, and 2.) the efficiency in how the draft and FA is leveraged to add talent, high efficiency means very few "misses". Every year is a rebuilding year for every team except one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 There's some truth to it. What happens if Milliner actually sucks, Geno regresses and we blow the draft next year? at 4-4 now, you might as well try and make a playoff push, no? The NFL overall sucks. There's no great team. I thought that Bengals team was by far the best team we've seen all year. With that logic you should want us to rehire Mike Tannenbaum to trade away our draft picks for sure things. The next time someone builds a superbowl winner that way, you let me know. You have to draft good players. If a GM is going to bypass draftees out of fear that they won't work out, then he should find a different job. Because that method requires hitting on everything as well as nobody of any significance getting injured, and I mean nobody of any significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 True, fair point. This leads back to my "there's really no such thing as a reach" point. Each team has their own board. For all we know teams arent as high on Bridgewater as we think. Also true. I'm sure some like Manziel better and others hate him (as a prospect). One man's treasure & all that. Hell, there was at least one NFL HC/GM who thought Tim Tebow was worth a 1st round pick. Look at Vernon Gholston. Or remember the other "freak" Matt Jones? There are hundreds of other sucky players taken in round 1 with loads of "potential" that was never realized. At least so far, there's still a reasonable possibility that Milliner will be good or better before long. He's played 5 games. But there is such a thing as a reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Every year is a rebuilding year for every team except one. i agree with that the key word in my statement is multi-year. every year, every team reloads for the next year. Planning 3 or 5 years out is not possible in this league where the average player career length is less than 3 years and 15-20% of the roster churns yearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 i agree with that the key word in my statement is multi-year. every year, every team reloads for the next year. Planning 3 or 5 years out is not possible in this league where the average player career length is less than 3 years and 15-20% of the roster churns yearly. More straw man arguments from the king of them. What poster here has said the Jets should be looking at a 3-5 year window to get the team to where they want to be? Absolutely no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 More straw man arguments from the king of them. Teams like Cleveland and Jacksonville have been rebuilding for 10 years or more. When will Oakland be done rebuilding? Purposely tearing a team down in the short term, to make it better in the long term, doesn't guarantee a winner. all it guarantees is a culture of losing. to be clear i do think in the pre-salary cap era, it was possible to build the troy aikman cowboys or the joe montana 49ers and ride that team for half a decade. but now with the cap and the way these contracts are built, every year is new and teams can be vastly different from year to year. For example the Kc chiefs didn't rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Honey Badger is a dude that will always be about himself. He'll screw up soon enough. This. Give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This. Give it time. He's a really good football player though. Unfortunately though- there's zero hope in fixing uncoachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 With that logic you should want us to rehire Mike Tannenbaum to trade away our draft picks for sure things. The next time someone builds a superbowl winner that way, you let me know. You have to draft good players. If a GM is going to bypass draftees out of fear that they won't work out, then he should find a different job. Because that method requires hitting on everything as well as nobody of any significance getting injured, and I mean nobody of any significance. I want us to draft well and I want us to start drafting impact positions that can put points on the scoreboard. We saw what the Bengals could do against a super unit dline. We've been trying to counter offenses....we should be trying to emulate other offenses. Offense will always be ahead unless your Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Why? Sometimes abbreviations bring a whole new world of enjoyment to an everyday event. Example: LMAO. Proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Teams like Cleveland and Jacksonville have been rebuilding for 10 years or more. When will Oakland be done rebuilding? Purposely tearing a team down in the short term, to make it better in the long term, doesn't guarantee a winner. all it guarantees is a culture of losing. You really believe this crap or are you trolling? I suspect the latter but I sense you actually believe some of this garbage and that you know nothing about anything. Rebuilding suggests there is a building aspect, and those teams haven't been building anything. They've just been failing. Overpaying Nnamdi Asomugha and Richard Seymour, as well as bypassing on the low-cost high picks they'd have otherwise had, didn't help Oakland one bit. There are reasons why all 3 of those teams have been losing and none of those reasons is because of a planned rebuild. Maybe if they had done that instead of rearranging chairs on the Titanic, they wouldn't have been losers for 10 years. A crappy team paying Darrelle Revis $16M is still a crappy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I want us to draft well and I want us to start drafting impact positions that can put points on the scoreboard. We saw what the Bengals could do against a super unit dline. We've been trying to counter offenses....we should be trying to emulate other offenses. Offense will always be ahead unless your Seattle. By investment, we should have a super unit at CB. Unfortunately they all stink and all are stinking at the same time. The result is what we've seen on the field. I don't think we're ignoring one thing or another. I think at the top of a draft a team takes its BPA. That logic goes double when the team has so many needs that every player drafted would fill one if he pans out. I do think that BPA should take into consideration how easy or difficult it is to find a really good one on the open market without massively overpaying. CB has been one of those positions, and I think that factored into the board. If the pick was bad, then it's on those who assembled the draft board in the order they did. This time last year LOTS of people thought Demario Davis was a wasted pick and were lamenting on who we should have drafted instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 More straw man arguments from the king of them. What poster here has said the Jets should be looking at a 3-5 year window to get the team to where they want to be? Absolutely no one. I'd argue that quite a few have actually said stuff like this, or that can be interpreted that way. I say this, because my argument to them is always - there is no such thing as a re-build, every team, every year wants to improve and win. No team, no employee of a team, is in a position to knowingly go into a season intent on losing, or not trying to win, with the end goal being improvement towards 3 years from now. Every team goes in trying to win as much as they can, and when it becomes evident that they aren't going to win enough they chalk it up as a year of re-building, but what that really means is a year of not winning it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 there's no such thing as a multi-year rebuild. The Jets are 4-4 now and 7th seed in the afc. the only year that matter is the current year. Call it what you want, but how you categorize a team is not the point, the point is that there's no consistently successful NFL team that you will find which mortgages their future for just one season. And that's exactly what it would have been doing by foregoing two high draft picks for a one-year rental of a player coming off of a serious injury from which he still hadn't recovered. It's that exact kind of horribly flawed thinking from Tanny which got the Jets into this whole mess to begin with, and him ultimately fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Gotta tell ya Sperm, you are easily one of my favorite 2-3 posters. Almost everything you post is logical, and I agree with almost as thought you plucked it right from my cro-magnon brain. Alright, that's enough nicey-nice for today. Gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Gay. He has gone soft- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 You really believe this crap or are you trolling? I suspect the latter but I sense you actually believe some of this garbage and that you know nothing about anything. Rebuilding suggests there is a building aspect, and those teams haven't been building anything. They've just been failing. Overpaying Nnamdi Asomugha and Richard Seymour, as well as bypassing on the low-cost high picks they'd have otherwise had, didn't help Oakland one bit. There are reasons why all 3 of those teams have been losing and none of those reasons is because of a planned rebuild. Maybe if they had done that instead of rearranging chairs on the Titanic, they wouldn't have been losers for 10 years. A crappy team paying Darrelle Revis $16M is still a crappy team. This ^^^^^ +1k Oakland is also just now starting to turn a corner because their owner was a senile control freak who insisted on drafting based on speed and Combine workouts and would ignore the recommendations of his scouts and GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Call it what you want, but how you categorize a team is not the point, the point is that there's no consistently successful NFL team that you will find which mortgages their future for just one season. And that's exactly what it would have been doing by foregoing two high draft picks for a one-year rental of a player coming off of a serious injury from which he still hadn't recovered. It's that exact kind of horribly flawed thinking from Tanny which got the Jets into this whole mess to begin with, and him ultimately fired. Of course you're right, but he'll never get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Every team is reloading year to year- even the Super Bowl Champs- with salary cap that is the nature of the game in this era. So if you want to call that rebuilding or not that is the fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'd argue that quite a few have actually said stuff like this, or that can be interpreted that way. I say this, because my argument to them is always - there is no such thing as a re-build, every team, every year wants to improve and win. No team, no employee of a team, is in a position to knowingly go into a season intent on losing, or not trying to win, with the end goal being improvement towards 3 years from now. Every team goes in trying to win as much as they can, and when it becomes evident that they aren't going to win enough they chalk it up as a year of re-building, but what that really means is a year of not winning it all. Upwards of a 3-5 year PLANNED rebuild? No, I haven't read that. I've read that in this extreme situation we're in it's a 2-year rebuild and there may still be a piece or two we may further replace a year later, but year 1 would still be the only year we'd be entering where we pretty much know we're not seriously competing. We're competing in year 2. That isn't 3, and it certainly isn't 5. If things take that long, it is a result of the circumstances in that year, as it is for most teams. Those reasons are an insurmountable number of injuries to key players (or to too many key players), our acquired/drafted players not being that good, or other teams simply still being better. But none of those reasons coincide with PLANNING to be less competitive. I believe this team, if Geno Smith pans out, will be in a position to be a contender next year. They may still suck. They may win fewer games next year than this year. But if they do, it won't be because it was planned to be so. Even this year was only semi-planned. We did still sign stop-gap players. If the goal was to lose every game, we could have used all draftees and UDFAs and younger league-minimum players instead of spending even as much as we did on the likes of Willie Colon and Austin Howard for the year. Ignoring the reality of the situation we're in - most notably being the lack of a QB in March - and still going all-out to spend as much as possible this season to get every imaginable win possible, is childish. It would speak to a mentality that everything has to be now now now, with no eye on any future plans. It is the Tannenbaum mentality, but even he did so in such a way to create a window before the bills came due (minus a real QB, of course, because he's a stupidhead). The expression that comes to mind is throwing away good money after bad. The team will be in a position to have a lasting success for years to come, should the drafted/acquired players not suck. But we won't lose any players we wanted to retain, and won't miss out on the last piece to the puzzle because some dope decided to sign the team up for $34M per year in contracts for two offensive linemen and a pair of slow inside linebackers. Or trade away countless picks for players with contracts that expire at the end of the upcoming season (and will be VERY expensive to retain). When doing that, you get a window before the house of cards falls down. This is the story of the Tannenbaum Jets. When that house falls down, there are two ways to retool. One, is to get the dead weight out of the way in 1 year so the team is then in a position to do anything it wants. The other way is to keep restructuring and restructuring already-overpaid players to ensure the team continues to have no way out of massive cap holes, and trade ever more future draft picks away for yet another band-aid (like forgoing the picks for Revis). This ensures the team will have a core of massively overpaid starters with no depth behind them, and not enough good young CHEAP players capable of starting for them to offset it. There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds. This one is the latter, so to speak. It is a retooling to be (seriously) competitive in 2 years instead of 1. That doesn't mean a superbowl in 2 years instead of 1. It means fielding a team that could reasonably have a chance. The 2013 Jets had none because we had no QB. We may or may not have one now for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 If Smith works out, and that's a giant if, the Jets will be competitive next year. If Smith stops averaging 2 turnovers a game, they will be competitive for a playoff spot this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Gay. Oh what, now a guy's love for Sperm suddenly makes him gay? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Gay. ...just remember what my mom always told me... " Gay " - guys make the best boyfriends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This ^^^^^ +1k Oakland is also just now starting to turn a corner because their owner was a senile control freak who insisted on drafting based on speed and Combine workouts and would ignore the recommendations of his scouts and GM. Oakland is arguably the dumbest example one can give. The VERY LAST thing Oakland did over the last several years under Davis was fail to spend, and dump high salaries of productive players so they could do a "clean" rebuild. They didn't trade down in drafts to "rebuild" by getting as many new players as they could. They took the highest pick players they could, at great expense under the old CBA, and chose poorly time after time. Michael Huff, Darren McFadden, Rolando McClain, Heyward-Bey, JaMarcus Russell, Richard Seymour (traded a top 10 pick for him), Robert Gallery, trading up for Fabian Washington, Stanford Routt, Andrew Walter, Quentin Moses, Michael Mitchell, Matt Henderson, Thomas Howard, Paul McQuistan, Marques Tuiasosopo, Derrick Gibson, Teyo Johnson, Jake Grove, LaMont Jordan, trading 2 first rounders for Randy Moss, $70M deal for DeAngelo Hall (ultimately 8 games for $8M and then cutting him), giving Tommy Kelly a $50M contract, Javon Walker a $55M contract...shall I go on? Who on God's green earth believes the Raiders sucked for the past 10 years because they were busy retooling & rebuilding on the cheap with a 3-5 year (or 10 year) plan? Absolutely no one. They sucked because they drafted sucky players (particularly under the old CBA), brought in sucky FAs (and paid them like HOFers in their prime), and traded away or otherwise pissed away draft picks. Same goes for any team that has sucked for that long. It was part of no "plan" to rebuild slowly over half a decade. Garbage in, garbage out. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ...just remember what my mom always told me... " Gay " - guys make the best boyfriends Especially when you're a dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Gay. Remedial. He has gone soft- Impossible. Oh what, now a guy's love for Sperm suddenly makes him gay? Jeez. Tom needs to thank you for salvaging this opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be_a_Jet Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Something something something Wrecks can't draft something something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Oh what, now a guy's love for Sperm suddenly makes him gay? Jeez. Says the guy with the milk moustache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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