Geno Smith, It's Show Time

[bitonti]

the beauty of Geno's rookie season is that he either completely stinks or plays lights out.   It really is amazing how putrid he's been in the losses and how good he's been in the wins.   

 

The 29th worst QBing is an aggregate of the 9 games.   2 pick 6's in a game the whole team stunk really don't mean much at this point.    

 

5 wins most likely gets in, possibly 4.     Let's let this play out before putting Geno in the same bin as Sanchez, Nagle, Clemens, etc...

 

this thread is called Show time and I agree with all that. 

 

people think that its an act of hate on Geno to comparing him to Sanchez or Clemens. or writing him off. 

 

i see it the other way, this team with this defense, could be relatively successful with Geno, Clemens or Sanchez. I don't think they are all that different. Like geno is in another tier from those goatherders. If you catch them at various points in their career... Pre buttfumble Sanchez could win with this defense. heck Kellen Clemens was slanging the ball around last week against IND.

 

 (why is it that the same posters who write off Sanchez's playoff wins are the ones saying Geno's only stat that matters is 5-4?)

 

Geno was 8-19 against NO but 0 turnovers which is a step in a right direction. He still threw trash all around the field including a meatball into triple coverage. and made very few plays in the passing game. The biggest one was a screen to Salas? 

 

But can't let these threads that all start off with its a roller coaster and it's half and half, he's almost the worst passer in the league. If you have a 12 team fantasy league Geno Smith is still on the waiver wire. That's what he's worth. He's not average. He's far below average.

[Matt39]

this thread is called Show time and I agree with all that. 

 

people think that its an act of hate on Geno to comparing him to Sanchez or Clemens. or writing him off. 

 

i see it the other way, this team with this defense, could be relatively successful with Geno, Clemens or Sanchez. I don't think they are all that different. Like geno is in another tier from those goatherders. If you catch them at various points in their career... Pre buttfumble Sanchez could win with this defense. heck Kellen Clemens was slanging the ball around last week against IND.

 

 (why is it that the same posters who write off Sanchez's playoff wins are the ones saying Geno's only stat that matters is 5-4?)

 

Geno was 8-19 against NO but 0 turnovers which is a step in a right direction. He still threw trash all around the field including a meatball into triple coverage. and made very few plays in the passing game. The biggest one was a screen to Salas? 

 

But can't let these threads that all start off with its a roller coaster and it's half and half, he's almost the worst passer in the league. If you have a 12 team fantasy league Geno Smith is still on the waiver wire. That's what he's worth. He's not average. He's far below average.

 

The Jets receivers are easily the worst in the NFL. Your hate should be focused on Stephen Hill, who's starting and out of the NFL terrible.

[dbatesman]

(why is it that the same posters who write off Sanchez's playoff wins are the ones saying Geno's only stat that matters is 5-4?)

 

Link?

[bitonti]

The Jets receivers are easily the worst in the NFL. Your hate should be focused on Stephen Hill, who's starting and out of the NFL terrible.

 

Hill had 1 target last week. 

[dbatesman]

Hill had 1 target last week. 

 

Just save us all the next two years and start on Milliner, will ya?

[Matt39]

Hill had 1 target last week. 

 

Because he's terrible.

[LionelRichie]

this thread is called Show time and I agree with all that. 

 

people think that its an act of hate on Geno to comparing him to Sanchez or Clemens. or writing him off. 

 

i see it the other way, this team with this defense, could be relatively successful with Geno, Clemens or Sanchez. I don't think they are all that different. Like geno is in another tier from those goatherders. If you catch them at various points in their career... Pre buttfumble Sanchez could win with this defense. heck Kellen Clemens was slanging the ball around last week against IND.

 

 (why is it that the same posters who write off Sanchez's playoff wins are the ones saying Geno's only stat that matters is 5-4?)

 

Geno was 8-19 against NO but 0 turnovers which is a step in a right direction. He still threw trash all around the field including a meatball into triple coverage. and made very few plays in the passing game. The biggest one was a screen to Salas? 

 

But can't let these threads that all start off with its a roller coaster and it's half and half, he's almost the worst passer in the league. If you have a 12 team fantasy league Geno Smith is still on the waiver wire. That's what he's worth. He's not average. He's far below average.

 

#1 - this defense is not nearly where the Jets were in 2009 or 2010, neither is the OL. 

 

#2 - I was not on the Geno bandwagon and I am still not sold on him, although I was in the "anyone but sanchez camp".   At this point I can honestly say that this season has been fun to watch and a very pleasant surprise.    I was expecting a total debacle, especially with the WRs and DBs.    

 

The Jets should play in 7 more meaningful games with a legit shot at the playoffs....all during a REBUILDING YEAR.     The entire purpose of 2013 was a tryout for 2014 and to clear cap space and bad contracts.   This team is overachieving for once so just enjoy.  

[bitonti]

Because he's terrible.

 

I am harder on Geno than I am on Hill, Vlad and everyone else because the QB is everything in this league and he touches the ball on every play. If Hill stinks that's one issue they can work around it, if Geno stinks they are screwed.

[bitonti]

 The Jets should play in 7 more meaningful games with a legit shot at the playoffs....all during a REBUILDING YEAR.     The entire purpose of 2013 was a tryout for 2014 and to clear cap space and bad contracts.   This team is overachieving for once so just enjoy.  

 

ive said this before to boos and hisses but ill say it again. there's no such thing as a rebuilding year. the avg player career length is less than 3 years. Every teams roster churns 10-20% every offseason. Guys get injured like Vinny in 99 and the year washes out. There's no such thing as rebuilding over multiple years. If we need to use the word, the team "rebuilds" every offseason. And as you say the team has a legit shot at the playoffs that doesn't mean they will have a shot next year. they can't lose in 2013 and win in 2015 because of rebuilding. all that matters is the next game. 

[haggis]

ive said this before to boos and hisses but ill say it again. there's no such thing as a rebuilding year. the avg player career length is less than 3 years. Every teams roster churns 10-20% every offseason. Guys get injured like Vinny in 99 and the year washes out. There's no such thing as rebuilding over multiple years. If we need to use the word, the team "rebuilds" every offseason. And as you say the team has a legit shot at the playoffs that doesn't mean they will have a shot next year. they can't lose in 2013 and win in 2015 because of rebuilding. all that matters is the next game. 

 

Never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.  A team can have a rebuilding off-season and still put a competitive team out there.  I think there is way more playing talent than GM/organizational talent and so if you get the right GM and savvy owner then you should be able to stay somewhat competitive every year.

[LionelRichie]

ive said this before to boos and hisses but ill say it again. there's no such thing as a rebuilding year. the avg player career length is less than 3 years. Every teams roster churns 10-20% every offseason. Guys get injured like Vinny in 99 and the year washes out. There's no such thing as rebuilding over multiple years. If we need to use the word, the team "rebuilds" every offseason. And as you say the team has a legit shot at the playoffs that doesn't mean they will have a shot next year. they can't lose in 2013 and win in 2015 because of rebuilding. all that matters is the next game. 

 

there are 2 types of rebuilding in the NFL.    the first is to clear bad contracts and dead money off the books.   the second is to find a franchise QB.    

 

the entire NFL is predicated on getting a franchise QB and making a run before the QB gets to a $100M+ contract.

 

the seahawks are the perfect example.   they basically turned the entire roster in 2-3 years, have almost all starters under 30, and kept investing in QBs until they found one.    

 

The Jets are definitely in yr 1 of the Idzik rebuilding era.   7 new starters on D and 3 new QBs is rebuilding.   they are also clearing out   dead cap money and bad contracts to holmes and sanchez.     The big question for Idzik is what to do with the QB position?   If he follows the Sea model then I expect offseason competition and another open battle during training camp.   

[flgreen]

there are 2 types of rebuilding in the NFL.    the first is to clear bad contracts and dead money off the books.   the second is to find a franchise QB.    

 

the entire NFL is predicated on getting a franchise QB and making a run before the QB gets to a $100M+ contract.

 

the seahawks are the perfect example.   they basically turned the entire roster in 2-3 years, have almost all starters under 30, and kept investing in QBs until they found one.    

 

The Jets are definitely in yr 1 of the Idzik rebuilding era.   7 new starters on D and 3 new QBs is rebuilding.   they are also clearing out   dead cap money and bad contracts to holmes and sanchez.     The big question for Idzik is what to do with the QB position?   If he follows the Sea model then I expect offseason competition and another open battle during training camp.   

 

Good post.

 

That's exactly what I expect is going to happen next year.  

[#27TheDominator]

If Geno can end the season with similar stats to his first 8 games, but FAR LESS turnovers. I'd be resigned to not picking another QB in the first round next year... however, I still think we take a mid-round QB and do some grooming. Keep the stable fresh, no matter whether you find "the guy" or not.

 

The NFL is a QB league now more than ever... no point in not buying a lottery ticket every draft, especially when you have a ton of compensatory picks coming your way.

 

This is an old post and I have been beating this fight to death, but I just don't see the point in this automatically draft a QB philsophy.  It's not like a lottery ticket if you can't even hold them all until you find out how good they are.  More importantly, I don't think of QB as a position where you just catch lightning in a bottle.  QB is a position that requires a guy you can work with, development AND catching lightning in a bottle.  More than any other position QB is a spot where I would have DO NOT DRAFT grades on tons of guys.  Yes, you should always be on the hunt for a QB, but I just don't believe in this draft one every year until you find one theory.   and if you

[jack48]

I want Geno to be more than a game manager. I recognize the desire to go into a conservative shell with a rookie QB in a playoff run, but putting that QB in a shell is a terrible way to try to develop him. Rex hired Mornhinweg to marry an aggressive offense to his aggressive defense. He shouldn't lose site of that in an improbable playoff push. And one of the hardest things for a QB to do is play conservative for three quarters, then be expected to throw strikes in the fourth when you find the team behind.

I hope the coaches take advantage of the return of Holmes, Winslow, and Cumberland, and continue to focus on Geno's continued growth.

this makes sense.  Geno is not the only QB who has thrown ugly pick sixes.  It is ridiculous for people to single out individual plays by a rookie QB.  They are 5-4.  Way better than I thought.  But developing a QB is more important to me than this season.

[LionelRichie]

This is an old post and I have been beating this fight to death, but I just don't see the point in this automatically draft a QB philsophy.  It's not like a lottery ticket if you can't even hold them all until you find out how good they are. 

 

the idea isn't to arbitrarily draft a QB every year but to quickly move on and keep looking once you realize that what you have isn't elite.   

 

Brady, Flacco, Manning, Schaub, Rodgers, RG3, Kaepernick, Ryan.  

 

Those were the division winners last year.    Right behind them were Wilson, Luck, Dalton.  

 

The Jets need to find their franchise QB and they can't be afraid to move on once they realize they don't have one.  

[peebag]

It's too bad QB's never get better after their rookie seasons. 

 

Now you're just talking crazy.

[peebag]

this makes sense.  Geno is not the only QB who has thrown ugly pick sixes.  It is ridiculous for people to single out individual plays by a rookie QB.  They are 5-4.  Way better than I thought.  But developing a QB is more important to me than this season.

 

Not realy sold on Geno but I think the reason we're out perfoming expectations so far this season is that he's not on the same crapitude as Sanchez was - which says a lot for MM and RR.

[Integrity28]

This is an old post and I have been beating this fight to death, but I just don't see the point in this automatically draft a QB philsophy.  It's not like a lottery ticket if you can't even hold them all until you find out how good they are.  More importantly, I don't think of QB as a position where you just catch lightning in a bottle.  QB is a position that requires a guy you can work with, development AND catching lightning in a bottle.  More than any other position QB is a spot where I would have DO NOT DRAFT grades on tons of guys.  Yes, you should always be on the hunt for a QB, but I just don't believe in this draft one every year until you find one theory.   and if you

 

Did I say replace Geno after one year? No.

 

I think selecting and developing is a continuum, while many narrow thinkers look at it as a stop-start dynamic. You can select Geno this year, and QB2 next year and have both of them in separate development cycles. Taking another QB next year doesn't mean you have to replace Geno next year, what it does mean is that IF Geno completely fails in his development cycle, you've got another guy there, fewer steps behind in his own development cycle. Ready to step in, thus reducing the risk of lost season(s) if you don't get it right with the first guy.

 

If Geno DOES work out, then you've got depth at the QB position you can sit on - or deal from to improve other areas.

 

Ongoing investment and development of QB talent is like printing your own money, if you do it right. Drafting a Sanchez and ignoring the QB position for 4 years is an example of what NOT to do. It cost the Jets multiple seasons not having another bullet in the chamber so to speak.

 

Ultimately, the QB position is the most valuable position in all of sports. As an organization  you should ALWAYS be looking to accumulate as much talent there as possible. 

 

I don't really care whether you agree. 

[#27TheDominator]

the idea isn't to arbitrarily draft a QB every year but to quickly move on and keep looking once you realize that what you have isn't elite.   

 

Brady, Flacco, Manning, Schaub, Rodgers, RG3, Kaepernick, Ryan.  

 

Those were the division winners last year.    Right behind them were Wilson, Luck, Dalton.  

 

The Jets need to find their franchise QB and they can't be afraid to move on once they realize they don't have one.  

 

I agree.  Even beyond "moving on" I don't have a problem with continual investment at the position.  I have a problem with quoting Ron Wolf like he is some kind of savant.  You draft one if you like him even if you don't need him, but you don't just draft one every year.  

 

Did I say replace Geno after one year? No.

 

I think selecting and developing is a continuum, while many narrow thinkers look at it as a stop-start dynamic. You can select Geno this year, and QB2 next year and have both of them in separate development cycles. Taking another QB next year doesn't mean you have to replace Geno next year, what it does mean is that IF Geno completely fails in his development cycle, you've got another guy there, fewer steps behind in his own development cycle. Ready to step in, thus reducing the risk of lost season(s) if you don't get it right with the first guy.

 

If Geno DOES work out, then you've got depth at the QB position you can sit on - or deal from to improve other areas.

 

Ongoing investment and development of QB talent is like printing your own money, if you do it right. Drafting a Sanchez and ignoring the QB position for 4 years is an example of what NOT to do. It cost the Jets multiple seasons not having another bullet in the chamber so to speak.

 

Ultimately, the QB position is the most valuable position in all of sports. As an organization  you should ALWAYS be looking to accumulate as much talent there as possible. 

 

I don't really care whether you agree. 

 

Ongoing investment and picking a QB pick every year because you think it is a lottery ticket you can hit on are not the same thing.  I am all for investment in the position, I am against the thought that drafting guys like Bollinger or McElroy somehow gives the team a chance to catch Tom Brady lightning.  I don't care if the Jets do have a franchise QB, they should still look for another.  IMO that does not mean "just keep drafting one every year."  

I have discussed this bullsh*t cycle theory and simple fact is that if you draft a QB every year you will be almost certainly be cutting a guy who has not even had a chance to develop and that ruins the theory of drafting developmental QBs.  Don't ignore the position, but hard and fast rules of drafting are pretty much always wrong.  Just like you if you disagree. 

[Integrity28]

Ongoing investment and picking a QB pick every year because you think it is a lottery ticket you can hit on are not the same thing.  I am all for investment in the position, I am against the thought that drafting guys like Bollinger or McElroy somehow gives the team a chance to catch Tom Brady lightning.  I don't care if the Jets do have a franchise QB, they should still look for another.  IMO that does not mean "just keep drafting one every year."  

I have discussed this bullsh*t cycle theory and simple fact is that if you draft a QB every year you will be almost certainly be cutting a guy who has not even had a chance to develop and that ruins the theory of drafting developmental QBs.  Don't ignore the position, but hard and fast rules of drafting are pretty much always wrong.  Just like you if you disagree. 

 

I forget how literal some of you take things.

 

When I say "keep taking QBs" and "invest in QBs" - I assume it's a given to me, and everyone, that we obviously can stop doing it when we are overloaded with talent at the position. I don't mean to present it as a "hard and fast rule of drafting".

 

I would think situational context would drive draft strategy first and foremost.

 

Lighten up.

[#27TheDominator]

I forget how literal some of you take things.

 

When I say "keep taking QBs" and "invest in QBs" - I assume it's a given to me, and everyone, that we obviously can stop doing it when we are overloaded with talent at the position. I don't mean to present it as a "hard and fast rule of drafting".

 

I would think situational context would drive draft strategy first and foremost.

 

Lighten up.

 

 

The discussion I had earlier was specific to that and acting like the draft is a lottery where you can hit the power ball with a QB feeds that thinking.  I am not against drafting a QB when we already have someone we think is "the guy" but you can easily draft 7 QBs a year and not find one. You can draft 100 guys like Greg McElroy and you still don't have chance of finding "the ONE"

[Integrity28]

The discussion I had earlier was specific to that and acting like the draft is a lottery where you can hit the power ball with a QB feeds that thinking.  I am not against drafting a QB when we already have someone we think is "the guy" but you can easily draft 7 QBs a year and not find one. You can draft 100 guys like Greg McElroy and you still don't have chance of finding "the ONE"

 

Non-believer.