Why Rex Ryan deserves to be fired....

[#27TheDominator]

-Never held up Alex Smith as a paragon-Just showed that you can win in this NFL with mediocre QB talent.

-I love to insert Parcells into a dialogue, because I know it gets you so roiled up.

-The NFL has parity unlike anything before, and it is causing a lot of close games. Personally, I like the dynasty era. Just my preference. This really has no bearing on Rex and co.

-Never said Rex was "strictly on the hook" for Sanchez, but I do believe he had insight and say into the pick. Along with who pushed and nurtured that pick.

 

Please don't put words or premises in my mouth or on my ledger. You do it very poorly.

 

You mean like this:

Scott Dierking, on 06 Aug 2013 - 4:11 PM, said:

 

Jets 5-5: Rex must go!  

[T0mShane]

who is the Drew Brees that is gonna get signed next year and rescue the franchise? Jay Cutler ?

The Jets are going to have $50 million dollars in cap space, a bunch of draft picks, and a handful of decent, young players next season. It's a good job to take for a young coach who wants a relatively clean slate to work with.

[jetsjetsjetss]

Cant be, I have read on this very board how great he is.

 

link?

[bitonti]

The Jets are going to have $50 million dollars in cap space, a bunch of draft picks, and a handful of decent, young players next season. It's a good job to take for a young coach who wants a relatively clean slate to work with.

 

is that a yes vote for Jay Cutler?  

[T0mShane]

is that a yes vote for Jay Cutler?

Who wants Jay Cutler? I think an offensive coach worth anything would love the chance to bring in his own guy(s). I realize as Jets fans that we think finding a quarterback is as possible as finding Atlantis, but it happens.

[dbatesman]

The Jets are going to have $50 million dollars in cap space, a bunch of draft picks, and a handful of decent, young players next season. It's a good job to take for a young coach who wants a relatively clean slate to work with.

 

But what about the SIN?

[T0mShane]

Also, best reason to fire Rex:

11-15 in his last 26.

11 of those 15 losses were by double digits.

7 losses were by 20+.

Average margin of defeat: ~18 points.

[T0mShane]

But what about the SIN?

Surely there's a godless heathen coach somewhere to be had? Where's Barry Switzer???

[T0mShane]

Sperm Edwards, in two weeks: "Please. You wanted Barry Switzer."

[Scott Dierking]

You mean like this:

Scott Dierking, on 06 Aug 2013 - 4:11 PM, said:

 

Jets 5-5: Rex must go!  

Huh?

[GenoandtheJets]

Rex Ryan overall is a horrendous coach at decision making. Wastes timeouts. Has no clue what so ever about the offense. Defensively an all right coach not great.

If the jets go 8-8 I would give rex another chance at coaching this team. The fact that he is no 1-4 after an off week is astounding.Don't axe him yet from being coach theres six games left. Then If the Jets get worse then ownership will most likely get rid of him. It's a wait and see thing with Rex Ryan.

[Scott Dierking]

Sperm Edwards, in two weeks: "Please. You wanted Barry Switzer."

He must use the Dominator method of debate-If I put words in your mouth, you said it!

[Jacked4JetsFB]

My allegiance has way more vision than your hate, but to answer your questions:

Yes and no. I don't think Rex picked Brunell and even if he did, I still think that is on the GM. I think Brunell, Clemens and whichever 3rd stringer they had was worse than Sanchez and no reason to bench him to get worse. I am sure he hated Tebow and if the team had kept Drew Stanton he might have pulled the trigger sooner since Stanton is considerably better than McElroy.

In this great vision of yours, how many QBs who suck does Rex

Get? 3, 4, 10?

At what point does the HC take some responsibility for developing a good QB and a competent offense? Or does he get a lifetime pass since he is a DC?

[Integrity28]

agree, than when the QB sucks everyone is appalled and blames the QB. I have read on this very forum how great Matty Ice is, without Jones and White, does not look so great, and still has more weapons than Jet QB's have been throwing to for the last 10+ years.

 

Meh, Matt Ryan has played fairly well when you consider he lost Julio, Roddy and his running game. All the guy had left is Gonzo in triple coverage and Harry Douglas and the Jacquizz / Snelling combo... and his offensive line went to sh*t this year too from what I understand.

 

He's a good QB. I'd take him in a heartbeat. The reality is, you put enough inferior players on a team, and it's not going to be very good.

 

If you look at our roster, I'd say half of our starters do not start for the top 25 teams in this league. Wilk, Sheldon, Snacks, Demorrio, Harris, Brick, Mangold, Hunter and maybe Cromartie on reputation. The rest of this roster is JAG city, or worse it's street free agents that couldn't find work ANYWHERE ELSE.

 

They've over-achieved and then some.

[#27TheDominator]

In this great vision of yours, how many QBs who suck does Rex

Get? 3, 4, 10?

At what point does the HC take some responsibility for developing a good QB and a competent offense? Or does he get a lifetime pass since he is a DC?

 

Geno Smith. No hope for him whatsoever

[joewillie78]

-Never held up Alex Smith as a paragon-Just showed that you can win in this NFL with mediocre QB talent.

-I love to insert Parcells into a dialogue, because I know it gets you so roiled up.

-The NFL has parity unlike anything before, and it is causing a lot of close games. Personally, I like the dynasty era. Just my preference. This really has no bearing on Rex and co.

-Never said Rex was "strictly on the hook" for Sanchez, but I do believe he had insight and say into the pick. Along with who pushed and nurtured that pick.

 

Please don't put words or premises in my mouth or on my ledger. You do it very poorly.

I think in fact REX is or was on the hook for SANCHEZ. Clearly when he became coach, he wanted SANCHEZ drafted and Tannenbaum agreed (A huge mistake right away by both as USC quarterbacks in the NFL have been epic failures). Then for 2 years when we made the playoffs (actually 1 year and the other year we backed in when PAINTER took over for Manning), because of our incredible defense (and REX certainly gets credit for that), he was able to "hide" Sanchez, but when 2011, and 2012 rolled around and everyone not named Stevie Wonder, or Helen Keller were able to see how bad he was and that he needed to hold the clipboard, Rex perched him up week after week, telling us he's getting better, or he's making better decisions when he is putting up 18 QBR ratings. Sorry, but REX is on the hook for Sanchez, and lets hope (if he is still around) that it doesnt take him 4 years to get GENO off the hook.

[Smashmouth]

Or maybe Matt Ryan isn't really a that good of a QB?  What exactly has he won in the NFL, 1 playoff game?

 

or that matty ice has done more than his share and his defense has sh*t the bed over and over. Matt Ryan is a damn good QB who plays smart and can go head to head with any QB in this league. Its obvious with the injuries that team has had to its skill players the offense was going to suffer. Same story with Tom Brady. No Welker no Gronk Brady struggled Gronk now back Brady starting to make some plays also improving because he has had some time with the young receivers.

 

You seem to think QB's have some magic wand and they don't. Yes I agree they are the biggest part of the offense but they are not all of it and never will be. if they were Peyton Manning would have 5 SB's not 1

[stoicsentry]

Also, best reason to fire Rex:

11-15 in his last 26.

11 of those 15 losses were by double digits.

7 losses were by 20+.

Average margin of defeat: ~18 points.

 

You wanna know why I don't take you seriously? No? Well, I'll tell you anyway.

 

-In Rex's first full 4 years, the Jets were 34-30 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs for a combined record of 38-32.

 

-You believe that Mike T, Sanchez and Rex were/are all among the worst in their respective positions.

 

-GM, QB and coach are arguably the 3 most important pieces of a team.

 

Now, explain to me how a team with a bad GM, a bad QB and a bad coach---weaknesses in the 3 most important pieces of a team---put up a 38-32 record. By no means is that record superb; it doesn't indicate a dynasty, I'm saying this in advance because that's how you're going to try and paint it. But it does indicate that someone, somewhere was doing something right with this team. Tell me who is responsible.

[Patriot Killa]

Actually, for all his QB coaching ability, Bill Walsh couldn't get anything out of Jim Plunkett, his college QB who was drafted high off his success at Stanford with Walsh as his coach.  Plunkett bombed out in NE, goes back to Walsh in San Francisco and got cut.  He went over to the Raiders and won two Super Bowls.

 

I don't know if Plunkett was stupid, but Walsh couldn't reach him and he played badly under Walsh.

With the Jet's luck Sanchez will be the new Plunckett

[SenorGato]

With the Jet's luck Sanchez will be the new Plunckett

 

Sanchez is probably a better candidate than most for this. 

[T0mShane]

Z

[AFJF]

Rex is going to win 7-8 games with a team that many projected to win four or less.  With the lack of cap space, it was well documented and agreed upon that Idzik (though no fault of his own) was doing little to nothing to help Rex.  He just wanted to give him any 53 guys he could scrape together, then let a 3 win season be the reason for firing him.  I'll always take a coach who goes out and gets more out of his team than anyone else thinks possible. 

[PatriotReign37]

Actually, for all his QB coaching ability, Bill Walsh couldn't get anything out of Jim Plunkett, his college QB who was drafted high off his success at Stanford with Walsh as his coach.  Plunkett bombed out in NE, goes back to Walsh in San Francisco and got cut.  He went over to the Raiders and won two Super Bowls.

 

I don't know if Plunkett was stupid, but Walsh couldn't reach him and he played badly under Walsh.

 Plunket took a beating in NE. He had no OL.

[PatriotReign37]

Who wants Jay Cutler? I think an offensive coach worth anything would love the chance to bring in his own guy(s). I realize as Jets fans that we think finding a quarterback is as possible as finding Atlantis, but it happens.

 

 Its a QB rich draft too.

 

 Jets have to draft another QB.

[RSJ]

 Its a QB rich draft too.

 

 Jets have to draft another QB.

 

Agreed. I would like to make sure Simms doesnt have anything first before he becomes the next Danny Woodhead. But assuming we find out he is not the guy, the Jets need to draft another QB high this year.

[T0mShane]

You wanna know why I don't take you seriously? No? Well, I'll tell you anyway.

-In Rex's first full 4 years, the Jets were 34-30 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs for a combined record of 38-32.

-You believe that Mike T, Sanchez and Rex were/are all among the worst in their respective positions.

-GM, QB and coach are arguably the 3 most important pieces of a team.

Now, explain to me how a team with a bad GM, a bad QB and a bad coach---weaknesses in the 3 most important pieces of a team---put up a 38-32 record. By no means is that record superb; it doesn't indicate a dynasty, I'm saying this in advance because that's how you're going to try and paint it. But it does indicate that someone, somewhere was doing something right with this team. Tell me who is responsible.

I've read this three times. Are you trying to credit Mike Westhoff here?

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Meh, Matt Ryan has played fairly well when you consider he lost Julio, Roddy and his running game. All the guy had left is Gonzo in triple coverage and Harry Douglas and the Jacquizz / Snelling combo... and his offensive line went to sh*t this year too from what I understand.

 

He's a good QB. I'd take him in a heartbeat. The reality is, you put enough inferior players on a team, and it's not going to be very good.

 

If you look at our roster, I'd say half of our starters do not start for the top 25 teams in this league. Wilk, Sheldon, Snacks, Demorrio, Harris, Brick, Mangold, Hunter and maybe Cromartie on reputation. The rest of this roster is JAG city, or worse it's street free agents that couldn't find work ANYWHERE ELSE.

 

They've over-achieved and then some.

I actually completely agree with you, and I would take Ryan any day of the week.

 

My point is that until the Jets build an offense, and truly commit to building an offense instead of the garbage they have been putting out there for 10+ years, most QB's are going to look bad, unless we happen to get lucky and stumble upon a Tom Brady or some other once in a generation type QB.

 

Our QB's have been bad, but there is this rediculous notion that all we need is a QB and all will be right. Yeah, if we get a future HOF'er all will be right, but you can develop and win with a good QB who has a lot of talent around them.

 

This organization simply has not committed to building an offense the right way since, em, ever.

 

My point was not to knock Matty Ice, just to show that weapinz as everyone likes to clammer about here do matter, a lot in fact.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Geno Smith. No hope for him whatsoever

 

I actually think there is plenty of hope for Geno, if surrounded with some talent. Geno is never going to be an Aaron Rodgers type QB who can put a team on his back, he is just not that talented, but who the hell is. 

 

The problem is this organization has done nothing to put talent around any QB, and since they have never had anything resembling Rodgers since Namath, no QB looks good.

 

Your incredible vision seems to absolved Rex for this strategy, and make no mistake, that was his strategy. And I like Rex, I am just not going to be an apologist for anyone. He believed he would win big with a dominating defense and an OK offense. 

 

This offense is most likely not going to be a one year fix, it will most likely take 2-3 years of solid drafting, player development and solid free agent signings. These are things Rex should have been putting in place in year 1,2,3, not 5,6,7. So for as good of a Defensive mind as he is (as long as he has Revis) and he is a great motivator (a long as its coming off a loss not a big win) you have to be honest about his flaws, they are becoming more and more glaring.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

You wanna know why I don't take you seriously? No? Well, I'll tell you anyway.

 

-In Rex's first full 4 years, the Jets were 34-30 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs for a combined record of 38-32.

 

-You believe that Mike T, Sanchez and Rex were/are all among the worst in their respective positions.

 

-GM, QB and coach are arguably the 3 most important pieces of a team.

 

Now, explain to me how a team with a bad GM, a bad QB and a bad coach---weaknesses in the 3 most important pieces of a team---put up a 38-32 record. By no means is that record superb; it doesn't indicate a dynasty, I'm saying this in advance because that's how you're going to try and paint it. But it does indicate that someone, somewhere was doing something right with this team. Tell me who is responsible.

Rex is a decent coach, I don't think anyone questions that. He has enough good qualities as a coach to overcome his shortcomings to an extent.

 

I have always been a huge Rex supporter, but I don't know if he is the right guy to win a SB in the modern NFL, I just really don't.

[MexiRoll6]

Even though he is a good players coach and motivator.....

 

1.  The Jets are and have always been terrible after a big win.

 

2.  He has no clue about the offensive side of the ball.

 

3.  He falls in love with players and ignores when they underperform.

 

4.  Makes a comment like "maybe we'll play cover-2 all game"...actually, is it me, or do the Jets have defensive personel that even Herm Edwards would have succeeded with.  I bet the Jets could play the tampa two with the best of them right now, meanwhile were leaving guys like Milliner and Cro on islands?  WTF?  A starting four man front of Wilkerson, Richardson, Harrison and Coples (with Pace, Ellis and Douzable rotating) would stop the run and pressure the QB.  Play two LBs Harris and Davis and 5 DBs  - Allen, Reed and Landry at S, Milliner and Cro at CB - that would make for an interesting version of the cover2.

 

5.  In the end, I think Rob Ryan is a better DC and has historically done more with less talent.

 

Lastly, we all know he's not getting fired after the season...but if he did - whose the new coach?

 

I vote for Lovie Smith and keep Mohrinweg.

Are you my clone? I think I love you because I have said ALL of the above and then some about ol Rex. He sucks a$$ and will NEVER be an NFL HC again. All of the above is true as is the fact that he is a totally terrible judge of talent as some of his and Tanny's draft picks have borne out. Kyle Wilson, Ducasse, Shonn Greene, Dustin Keller, Sanchez, Stephen Hill, Joe McKnight and the list goes on of first, second and third round failures drafted by these two jacka$$es.

[#27TheDominator]

I actually think there is plenty of hope for Geno, if surrounded with some talent. Geno is never going to be an Aaron Rodgers type QB who can put a team on his back, he is just not that talented, but who the hell is. 

 

The problem is this organization has done nothing to put talent around any QB, and since they have never had anything resembling Rodgers since Namath, no QB looks good.

 

Your incredible vision seems to absolved Rex for this strategy, and make no mistake, that was his strategy. And I like Rex, I am just not going to be an apologist for anyone. He believed he would win big with a dominating defense and an OK offense. 

 

This offense is most likely not going to be a one year fix, it will most likely take 2-3 years of solid drafting, player development and solid free agent signings. These are things Rex should have been putting in place in year 1,2,3, not 5,6,7. So for as good of a Defensive mind as he is (as long as he has Revis) and he is a great motivator (a long as its coming off a loss not a big win) you have to be honest about his flaws, they are becoming more and more glaring.

 

 

Coaches coach, GMs GM.  

 

If Tannenbaum let the coaches pick all the players that is on him.  If Idzik does the same we have a huge problem.  I have said this before, but nobody seems to care.  How many cuts has Rex made that were mistakes?  Players that did better elsewhere after they were gone.  The GM is supposed to give the coach the palette and let him pick the colors.  Seemed that Tannenbaum let way too much influence his personnel decisions and now Idzik has influence on the starting QB.  Neither is an ideal situation in my opinion.

 

I'm not sure how being .500 with a pathetic roster has made his flaws more glaring.  I'm also not sure how we are blaming Rex for 5 years of an offense when he was stuck with a system and coordinator when he came on board.  Last year was an abomination, but if he had gotten to do that in 2009 maybe we would have had a real attacking OC in 2010. 

[joewillie78]

You wanna know why I don't take you seriously? No? Well, I'll tell you anyway.

 

-In Rex's first full 4 years, the Jets were 34-30 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs for a combined record of 38-32.

 

-You believe that Mike T, Sanchez and Rex were/are all among the worst in their respective positions.

 

-GM, QB and coach are arguably the 3 most important pieces of a team.

 

Now, explain to me how a team with a bad GM, a bad QB and a bad coach---weaknesses in the 3 most important pieces of a team---put up a 38-32 record. By no means is that record superb; it doesn't indicate a dynasty, I'm saying this in advance because that's how you're going to try and paint it. But it does indicate that someone, somewhere was doing something right with this team. Tell me who is responsible.

Again, as I pointed out in another thread, this is a GREAT accomplishment, almost an unbelieveable accomplishment given that one side of the ball is a total abomination of offensive football. And this is where the problem lies with REX and to some point the old GM, every year we are faced with a pathetic offense, but just about every year we see Rex and the GM draft defense (and to Rex's credit, its a great defense), so every year REX gets a pass, as people like yourself, tell us that REX is a great coach because his offense is pitiful and anyone with REX's record with that offense should be coach of the year.

 

So my question has always been, when do we stop giving REX a pass with the convenient excuse that the offense is woeful so he is doing a great job getting us to 8-8 or complete mediocrity?

 

Sorry, I saw him stick with an utterly pathetic QB for 4 years and now is on the same track with another inept QB, but its seems to be OK because REX thinks he can win with a top 5 defense no matter how woeful the offense is allowed to get.

 

If we as Jet fans are satisfied with mediocrity, then we have the right coach in place, but if we want to join the "modern NFL" and have an up tempo offense with a respectable QB, then I would be in favor of a change.

 

Sorry if this was long winded but its a never ending theme with this coaching staff.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Coaches coach, GMs GM.  

 

If Tannenbaum let the coaches pick all the players that is on him.  If Idzik does the same we have a huge problem.  I have said this before, but nobody seems to care.  How many cuts has Rex made that were mistakes?  Players that did better elsewhere after they were gone.  The GM is supposed to give the coach the palette and let him pick the colors.  Seemed that Tannenbaum let way too much influence his personnel decisions and now Idzik has influence on the starting QB.  Neither is an ideal situation in my opinion.

 

I'm not sure how being .500 with a pathetic roster has made his flaws more glaring.  I'm also not sure how we are blaming Rex for 5 years of an offense when he was stuck with a system and coordinator when he came on board.  Last year was an abomination, but if he had gotten to do that in 2009 maybe we would have had a real attacking OC in 2010. 

 

Yup, coaches coach, and GM's GM, fine.

 

But here is the rub, even if you want to make the GM 100% responsible for picking the players, which I think is dead wrong and impossible since they have to fit for the coaching staff, the HC absolutely positively must set the strategy for the type of team he can win with as coach.

 

This absolutely can not come from the GM, it just cannot or you don't have  real head coach.

 

Everyone wants a great offense and a great defense, but in the modern NFL it's just simply not possible. The salary cap and the number of teams makes it impossible.

 

So, the HC has to specify where he wants to focus his team. So, that could be D-line and a great passing game. It could be secondary and a great running game, or other combinations. You still try to get good players in other areas, but unless you draft better than anyone, it just won't happen.

 

It is than up to the GM to manage the cap and the draft to get the best players into the franchise to be the type of team the HC can win with. Rex said it from day 1, and the franchises actions backed it up, he wanted a ground and pound (all weather offense) offense and an attacking defense.

 

The Jets drafted a QB, had a very solid running game in place, and a solid defense in place. Outside of the QB, the Jets did very little to commit to a great passing attack.

 

The apologists will scream about Braylon and Holmes, to which I partly agree with. But the real problem came in 2011 when instead of re-signing a pre-injury Edwards, or replacing him with a realistic threat, we went all in on Asomgua and brought in Plaxico fresh out of jail who was OUT of the NFL the following year. They also let Cotchery go and replaced him with Mason. In addition they let the line slip big time.

 

The priority was NOT the passing game, it was the defense. That was Rex's call, and has to be Rex's call. 

 

The Jets have used one draft pick in the top 2 rounds on a non-QB offensive skill position in the 5 years that Rex has been the HC. How many have gone into the defense?

 

Ignoring all of this is blind apology, not vision.

[Scott Dierking]

Coaches coach, GMs GM.  

 

 Last year was an abomination, but if he had gotten to do that in 2009 maybe we would have had a real attacking OC in 2010.

You mean we could have had Sparano (clearly Rex,s choice) in 2010? That would have been awesome!

[Jacked4JetsFB]

You mean we could have had Sparano (clearly Rex,s choice) in 2010? That would have been awesome!

 

Yeah, that was really, really bad. Sparano was quite possibly the Rich Kotite of Offensive Coordinators.