Jacked4JetsFB Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Was Marvin Lewis the D-coordinator on that team? Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 please Carroll sucked before they got Wilson a good QB will make any coach look good. most of the time I agree 100%. Ive always said, give me a great QB and I can find a great coach anywhere. John Fox instantly became a genious when he got Peyton Manning, Brady made Bellichick a HOF, Elway won Shanahan 2 super-bowls etc. All that being said, Can REX identify a GREAT QB? The way he put the bum from USC on a pedestal, and then had the audacity (with Tannenbaum) to actually extend him, makes me wonder if REX could actually identify a great QB. If they extended The USC bum, they must have thought he was a great QB as they paid him like one, and that scares the hell out of me with REX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Yup So Rex's claim to fame is he won a ring as the D-line coach, on a team quarterbacked by Trent Dilfer. Hmm, No wonder he thinks he can win with any Joe Blow taking the snaps. Edited November 21, 2013 by joewillie78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I agree 100%. Ive always said, give me a great QB and I can find a great coach anywhere. John Fox instantly became a genious when he got Peyton Manning, Brady made Bellichick a HOF, Elway won Shanahan 2 super-bowls etc. All that being said, Can REX identify a GREAT QB? The way he put the bum from USC on a pedestal, and then had the audacity (with Tannenbaum) to actually extend him, makes me wonder if REX could actually identify a great QB. If they extended The USC bum, they must have thought he was a great QB as they paid him like one, and that scares the hell out of me with REX. John Fox went to the playoffs with Tim Tebow and went to the Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deucebag Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 The big Tuna won one with Jeff Hostetler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 John Fox went to the playoffs with Tim Tebow and went to the Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme. And will win the SB with Manning. But WOW, thats something I did not know. I may have to re-think my opinion of Mr. Fox. I'm impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The big Tuna won one with Jeff Hostetler. And Phil Simms, but the TUNA (in my opinion) is easily one of the top 5 coaches of all-time. No coach that I have ever seen, got more out of a player than any coach I have ever witnessed. Ithink back to guys like Phil McConkey, Otis Anderson, Joe Morris, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas, and on and on, average players that he coached the hell out of. Pure genious, that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoandtheJets Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The only reason Rex Ryan should be fired is that he knows sh*t about offense and that he wastes time outs early in the football game. I could see if the Jets implode completely in the 2nd half that he would get fired. If the Jets go 8-8 or better Rex is probably safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 As a DC, sure, I can see that. As a HC, will be tough and take the absolute perfect situation. Could happen, but will not happen with the Jets I don't think, even if he was give 5 more years. For the record , his one was in a different era of football, and he was not the DC on that team, he was the dline coach. Never said he was the DC of that Ravens team. I do agree that no team with a QB that bad, no matter how good the defense will ever win a Superbowl again. The rule changes will never allow for that. A nasty, keep you ujp worrying about it at night, kill your offense that actually scares people is not whats wanted in the NFL anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The only reason Rex Ryan should be fired is that he knows sh*t about offense and that he wastes time outs early in the football game. I could see if the Jets implode completely in the 2nd half that he would get fired. If the Jets go 8-8 or better Rex is probably safe. This assessment is probably spot on, unless Idzik just simply wants "his guy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) This is all fair. Yeah, I can't argue too strongly against it. If Geno isn't the guy, it would make a bit more sense to bring in a veteran QB to take the reins if we're going to keep Rex around. It doesn't make much sense to keep drafting rookie QB's without an offense-minded HC, unless we're really trusting Marty to develop him. I'll support whatever decision Idzik makes. Edited November 21, 2013 by Jetsfan80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) we are confusing the issue. Geno isn't Rex's guy. Sanchez isn't Rex's guy (he has a tattoo of his wife, not of Sanchez). Rex is a spectator who receives whatever QB the GM picks for him. If you want to improve the offense we are talking about firing Idzik just like they fired Tanny. Cause thats who buys the groceries. Rex isn't Parcells he is beholden to a GM and this is the same person deciding who the next coach will be (he Rex's direct supervisor). This offense won't get better until the team gets a QB and that's not on Rex. If you expect some kind of John Harbaugh type to come in and make chicken salad out of chicken s--t (or order Idzik to pick a better QB) that's being overly hopeful. Bill Walsh and Don Coryrell couldn't win with Geno Smith right now. Edited November 21, 2013 by bitonti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiF Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan, Mike Tomlin, Jeff Fisher, John Harbaugh have all coached a team to the SB. All have losing records. All have considerably better teams than the New York Jets, all have losing records. Do they suck? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) we are confusing the issue. Geno isn't Rex's guy. Sanchez isn't Rex's guy (he has a tattoo of his wife, not of Sanchez). Rex is a spectator who receives whatever QB the GM picks for him. If you want to improve the offense we are talking about firing Idzik just like they fired Tanny. Cause thats who buys the groceries. Rex isn't Parcells he is beholden to a GM and this is the same person deciding who the next coach will be (he Rex's direct supervisor). This offense won't get better until the team gets a QB and that's not on Rex. If you expect some kind of John Harbaugh type to come in and make chicken salad out of chicken s--t (or order Idzik to pick a better QB) that's being overly hopeful. Bill Walsh and Don Coryrell couldn't win with Geno Smith right now. If we can't find a QB, we probably need to find a HC who can make a QB look good. Like the Harbaughs have done with Flacco and Alex Smith, John Fox did with Tim Tebow, and Andy Reid is doing with, again, Alex Smith. You can make a QB look good by either hiding him with a great defense and running game, like Rex was able to do his first 2 years here, by adapting a system to make him appear better than he is, or a combination of both. Edited November 21, 2013 by Jetsfan80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Other than scheme the occasional defense, Rex does absolutely nothing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) If we can't find a QB, we probably need to find a HC who can make a QB look good. Like the Harbaughs have done with Flacco and Alex Smith, John Fox did with Tim Tebow, and Andy Reid is doing with, again, Alex Smith. You can make a QB look good by either hiding him with a great defense and running game, like Rex was able to do his first 2 years here, by adapting a system to make him appear better than he is, or a combination of both. Geno Smith right now is not hideable. They've tried. If Rex should be fired it's for not benching Geno sooner. this is a rex thread not a Geno/Simms thread but here's a list of all the undrafted free agents playing better than Geno over the last month: Matt McGloin undrafted rookie starter for the Raiders (and current rookie of the week) Scott Tolzien undrafted 2nd year starter for the Packers Case Keenum undrafted rookie starter for the Texans Jeff Tuel undrafted rookie spot starter for the Bills yes if you can believe it Jeff Tuel has more passing production in his 1 start against KC than Geno has had in the last month. the crappy thing is that Rex can't put in Matt Simms cause he needs to get a new contract from Idzik. The General Manager is determining the starting line up that's not exactly a great selling point to future John Harbaugh types that you guys think can save this franchise. No good offensive HC is going to come work for a team where the GM overrules the HC on lineup decisions. Edited November 21, 2013 by bitonti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 we are confusing the issue. Geno isn't Rex's guy. Sanchez isn't Rex's guy (he has a tattoo of his wife, not of Sanchez). Rex is a spectator who receives whatever QB the GM picks for him. If you want to improve the offense we are talking about firing Idzik just like they fired Tanny. Cause thats who buys the groceries. Rex isn't Parcells he is beholden to a GM and this is the same person deciding who the next coach will be (he Rex's direct supervisor). This offense won't get better until the team gets a QB and that's not on Rex. If you expect some kind of John Harbaugh type to come in and make chicken salad out of chicken s--t (or order Idzik to pick a better QB) that's being overly hopeful. Bill Walsh and Don Coryrell couldn't win with Geno Smith right now. Ye olde "Rex is a defensive coordinator and should only be held accountable for defensive coordinator things...unless that defense gets shredded by EJ Manuel and Jake Locker and Andy Dalton (in which case we blame the absence of Revis)" defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I have never lived in Buffalo! Perhaps, but when you say to people let's go to "the city" tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Ye olde "Rex is a defensive coordinator and should only be held accountable for defensive coordinator things...unless that defense gets shredded by EJ Manuel and Jake Locker and Andy Dalton (in which case we blame the absence of Revis)" defense. TS answer this question what kind of John Harbaugh offensive wizard is going to work for a team where the GM overrides the HC on starting QB decisions? Or do we believe Idzik will become hands off with a better offensive coach? If you want to get a high quality candidate (the type that can make miracles with average QBs) they will have to fire everyone. Idzik, marty everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 TS answer this question what kind of John Harbaugh offensive wizard is going to work for a team where the GM overrides the HC on starting QB decisions? Or do we believe Idzik will become hands off with a better offensive coach? If you want to get a high quality candidate (the type that can make miracles with average QBs) they will have to fire everyone. Idzik, marty everyone. I think the primary task for both the coach and the GM is to find and develop the best possible quarterback they can in the shortest amount of time they can. Say what you want about Rex and his powerlessness to dictate personnel, but the one shot that he had to potentially improve his QB situation he burned with hiring Tony Sparano. He's had five training camps, bit. He's had ~500 players cross his face in those camps. If his career is ruined because he couldn't find a halfway decent alternative to Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith in five years, that's on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Perhaps, but when you say to people let's go to "the city" tonight... I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I'm pretty sure it implies sodomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiF Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Coaches coach, players play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Coaches coach, players play. JiF jifs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think the primary task for both the coach and the GM is to find and develop the best possible quarterback they can in the shortest amount of time they can. Say what you want about Rex and his powerlessness to dictate personnel, but the one shot that he had to potentially improve his QB situation he burned with hiring Tony Sparano. He's had five training camps, bit. He's had ~500 players cross his face in those camps. If his career is ruined because he couldn't find a halfway decent alternative to Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith in five years, that's on him. I literally can't understand how Jets fans can look at this team and decide it's Rex that's holding them back. Rex is literally one of the only above average parts of this franchise. This roster was stripped down, they traded the best Jet since Joe Willy and without Rex they are that 2-3 win team everyone predicted them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 TS answer this question what kind of John Harbaugh offensive wizard is going to work for a team where the GM overrides the HC on starting QB decisions? Or do we believe Idzik will become hands off with a better offensive coach? If you want to get a high quality candidate (the type that can make miracles with average QBs) they will have to fire everyone. Idzik, marty everyone. I do not agree. REX is not Idziks guy and if he is overruling REX (which I have doubts about), then Idzik must surely end this realtionship as it will never prosper. However, if Idzik gets his "own guy" who he will obviously hand pick and will obviously share Idziks vision, then I beleive hw will be much more "hands off" as far as coaching decisions go and much more hands on picking talent for his new coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I literally can't understand how Jets fans can look at this team and decide it's Rex that's holding them back. Rex is literally one of the only above average parts of this franchise. This roster was stripped down, they traded the best Jet since Joe Willy and without Rex they are that 2-3 win team everyone predicted them to be. You also couldn't fathom that Herm was an awful coach. And that quarterback that you hate so much won four of the Jets' five wins by himself after Rex's defense choked late in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I literally can't understand how Jets fans can look at this team and decide it's Rex that's holding them back. Rex is literally one of the only above average parts of this franchise. This roster was stripped down, they traded the best Jet since Joe Willy and without Rex they are that 2-3 win team everyone predicted them to be. And the fans (like myself) cant understand why REX apologists keep giving REX a "pass" every year because he has a woeful offense with woeful talent. It is my belief and many other Jet fans belief that it is because of Rex and his sincere love for the defensive side of the ball, that they will never have even a mediocre offense, let alone a potent offense that scares other D-coordinators, under this head coach. If we extend Rex and it is now year 7 or 8 and we still cant put up more than 14 points per game, and we still have woeful talent offense, and our offense still is pathetic, will we hear the same old excuse for REX, that he is great because he got us to 8-8 with a pathetic offens? How long do we wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'm ok with firing firing Rex so long as they fire Idzik too. What you are saying by just firing only Rex is that this team drafted and signed players well - but the head coach didnt coach them well. Its simply not the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) You also couldn't fathom that Herm was an awful coach. And that quarterback that you hate so much won four of the Jets' five wins by himself after Rex's defense choked late in games. By himself? Other than the Atlanta game, which game did Geno carry this team in, from start to finish? Its been so long since the Jets have had a good QB, I think some of their fans forget what a full game good performance looks like, Edited November 21, 2013 by RSJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'm ok with firing firing Rex so long as they fire Idzik too. What you are saying by just firing only Rex is that this team drafted and signed players well - but the head coach didnt coach them well. Its simply not the case. What players has Rex developed outside of his DL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 By himself? Other than the Atlanta game, which game did Geno carry this team in, from start to finish? Its been so long since the Jets have had a good QB, I think some of their fans forget what a full game good performance looks like, He brought the team back to win in the fourth quarter of four games. Bit's claim was that, without Rex's defense, we'd be a two win team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What players has Rex developed outside of his DL? Many of the LB's, the safeties appear up and coming, the HOF CB that is now gone. Guys on the offense too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 He brought the team back to win in the fourth quarter of four games. Bit's claim was that, without Rex's defense, we'd be a two win team. In games he sucked the rest of. He partially got us into those spots. Idk if you check stat lines - but there are actually QB's out there that play good, complete games. That is what it looks like to win your team a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So yeah lets get back to this GM and his brilliant offseason strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'm ok with firing firing Rex so long as they fire Idzik too. What you are saying by just firing only Rex is that this team drafted and signed players well - but the head coach didnt coach them well. Its simply not the case. Oh no, they drafted well, and he coached them well BUT only on one side of the ball as he has no care for the offensive side of the ball. REX can coach up just about any DEFENSIVE player, but ask him to develop a skill postion player and he is clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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